Kas'im vs Anakin and Windu

Originally posted by Gideon
Wow, I didn't think you'd actually respond to that. You people and your fragile egos.

[b]Edit: When you make something of a valid point besides WINDU LOST HIS BALANCE ERGO HE WAS MAKING A CONCERTED EFFORT EVEN THOUGH THE CANON DATABANK SAYS OTHERWISE, I'll gladly take you off Ignore to intellectually curbstomp you.

I don't waste my time with those who make worthless points. I don't care if you disagree, which is why I debate with TJ and Galan (who don't agree with me), but you have to be smart about it. [/B]

Wow!! I feel sorry for you.

Once again: Mace being disarmed and thrown from a window DOES NOT = one being "overpowered" because they weren't going all out against another combatant.

Address the issue.

^ Post two times after this post as a sign you've made a credible argument and I'll take you off Ignore.

Let me know when you decide to address the issue at hand. I'll be back on later, as I have a things to do.

^ That was just once. Twice, please.

Hey! Is there are way for you to take me off of ignore? Or would you want me to concede that argument or something?

Gideon, your ignore function has never done you any good. You have posted after every single post an ignored member has posted to you.

Yoda didn't let Sidious go so much as make a horrible tactical error. (retreating to a lower pod at a STUPID time) THAT fits within the script AND the movie AND previous information about Yoda.

Your move.

Out of curiosity does any part of the script conclusively tell us the exact positions of Yoda and Palpatine just as Yoda jumps down to a lower senate pod? If he wasn't in a position that would grant him an almost definite victory over Sidious then the change in positioning isn't necessarily a poor or nonsensical decision.

TJ
Gideon, your ignore function has never done you any good.

According to a G[ideon]-canon source, it has.

TJ
You have posted after every single post an ignored member has posted to you.

Spoiler:
For insidiously clever reasons!

TJ
Yoda didn't let Sidious go so much as make a horrible tactical error. (retreating to a lower pod at a STUPID time)

😐

Are these things mutually exclusive?

TJ
THAT fits within the script AND the movie AND previous information about Yoda.

No, it doesn't. First off, Yoda has demonstrated consistent skill as a tactician in both the movies (he successfully defeats the Confederacy on Geonosis and Kashyyyk) and Expanded Universe. Second, Yoda's stated intentions were to DESTROY the Sith. The Sith he intended to destroy? Palpatine.

Ergo it makes zero sense and completely contradicts the movie for Yoda to disarm Sidious, have him in a position to kill him, and then to release him for no reason.

It contradicts the movie, the rest of the screenplay, the novelization, and the other canon sources, ergo it is not canon.

TJ
Your move.

Checkmate. 😖hifty:

Lol Gideon it's hilarious when you respond to my posts which you refuse to read since you have me on ignore thinking that I'm getting all worked up and completely failing in guessing what I actually posted. 😆

But then again, you're probably going to think that I'm getting mad at you, and are going to make a post responding to this one.

^ You may post three times in a row to be considered for removal from my Ignore List.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I believe either you misunderstand me or I'm not being clear. When I say Sidious is going all out, that means with both the saber and the force. I DO believe Sidious was going all out with the saber against Mace, but he was hardly using his vast force reserves and power to take him down, hence not going all out. He was definitely using both against Yoda, and he was a blur against Luke.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
The only thing in question was regarding Palpatine going all out, which he most certainly wasn't.

However, what you may note from the novelization is that when Mace momentarily withdrew from the battle in order to jump across the room and shatter the office window, Palpatine did use the force to try and push him out of the window. ie. when Palpatine finally had the opportunity to use the force offensively, he had no problem doing so.

^ The screenplay and novelization both depict Palpatine using the Force against Windu during their duel (to slam him into wallz).

So it was moar than possible for Palpatine to use the Force against Windu. But it still doesn't change the obvious fact that Palpatine was clearly restraining himself.

I think you misunderstood my point. Yoda continued to try to destroy the Sith, its true, but he did so by making the horrible tactical error of jumping onto a lower pod instead of simply driving him through with his own saber. Yoda's mistake. He didn't intend to let Sidious go, but Sids took advantage of an error so ridiculous as to make it PIS.

Yoda jumping to another pod at that moment is no more ridiculous than Maul watching Kenobi jump all the way over him and cut him in half.

and yoda is indeed notoriously bad at finishing people. (see Dooku, 2x) him letting Sidious get room create an escape (which in this case turned into a fresh assault) is not out of character for Yoda.

Originally posted by Gideon
^ The screenplay and novelization both depict Palpatine using the Force against Windu during their duel (to slam him into wallz).

So it was moar than possible for Palpatine to use the Force against Windu. But it still doesn't change the obvious fact that Palpatine was clearly restraining himself.

It is only your opinion that Palpatine was holding back. I have yet to see any evidence to support your claim.

TJ
I think you misunderstood my point.

I think I didn't. I think you don't have a point.

TJ
Yoda continued to try to destroy the Sith, its true, but he did so by making the horrible tactical error of jumping onto a lower pod instead of simply driving him through with his own saber. Yoda's mistake. He didn't intend to let Sidious go, but Sids took advantage of an error so ridiculous as to make it PIS.

You surprise me with your ability to read intent from a script, which is little more than direction and movement. Your expertise in Yoda's psychology aside, I'll stick with the correct interpretation: Yoda might be flawed in many ways, but he has consistently demonstrated notable skill as a tactician. He made it very clear to Kenobi that Palpatine had to die and the decision he makes within the screenplay to let Palpatine go despite clearly having the upper hand is beyond arrogance or a bad moment, but indicative of utter stupidity and madness.

So let's recap: as per the script you provided, we see that Yoda disarms the Emperor, repels his Force lightning, and all in all has Sidious on the verge of utter death. Yoda reiterates his desire to destroy Sidious and then... let's him go?

It doesn't fit, it contradicts everything and is, therefore, non-canon.

TJ
Yoda jumping to another pod at that moment is no more ridiculous than Maul watching Kenobi jump all the way over him and cut him in half.

Which was ridiculous and terrible choreography, but Maul was also toying with Kenobi, not seeking to kill him outright. Can we say the same for Yoda and Palpatine?

No.

TJ
and yoda is indeed notoriously bad at finishing people. (see Dooku, 2x) him letting Sidious get room create an escape (which in this case turned into a fresh assault) is not out of character for Yoda.

Your desperation amuses me. Perhaps if I were willing to ignore context I would concede your point, but I'm not, so I won't.

Count Dooku was his former Padawan learner for whom he demonstrates considerable personal attachment. Meanwhile, Darth Sidious is the man responsible for the permanent destruction of the Jedi Order as we know it, the downfall of the Republic, and Dooku's own fall.

Try using that on someone who has no clue about the movies or the characters therein, and you just might have an argument.

G007
The novel depicts Palpatine using the force offensively when Mace withdrew from the battle and hopped over to shatter the window (as I said above.) That is certainly =/= to using the force in the midst of battle.

Congratulations; I still have my trump card,

Jedi Master MACE WINDU and the Sith Lord fight their way down the hallway and into the main office area. PALPATINE is able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

G007
It is only your opinion that Palpatine was holding back. I have yet to see any evidence to support your claim.

I'll fish out the post for you.

Gideon
It makes perfect sense:

Skywalker told Palpatine that he was going to inform the Council (movie/novelization/screenplay); Palpatine sensed Skywalker's turmoil and Windu's presence through the Force (novelization); Palpatine communicated with Skywalker telepathically to prompt him to interfere (movie); Palpatine records the confrontation to frame the Jedi (novelization); Palpatine was not afraid of Windu (novelization); Palpatine was feigning weakness (Lucas); Vader himself believes Palpatine was in control the entire time (Death Star).

Windu got punk'd.

In fact, there's more to suggest Palpatine did throw the fight than not.

Originally posted by Gideon
Congratulations; I still have my trump card,

Jedi Master MACE WINDU and the Sith Lord fight their way down the hallway and into the main office area. PALPATINE is able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

Originally posted by Gideon
In fact, there's more to suggest Palpatine did throw the fight than not.

G007
And this is canon, how? The film never showed it, and the novel never depicted it.

I'm fairly certain that the fight was interrupted to show Anakin charging from the Council Chambers. Perhaps then?

G007
In your opinion.

In fact, actually. The only thing you have is that George Lucas said Palpatine was overpowered, which does not contradict the idea that Palpatine restrained himself throughout the duel.