Originally posted by AstnerThank you again, Astner, the section with Berserk is particularly helpful for figuring out just how fast it makes him. 🙂
The trailer for Blood Omen 2 might be useful.Though the methods in Blood Omen were a lot crueler, and we don't know how many of the he retreived after his sleep.
Originally posted by quanchi112
What's the difference?
What Kain did to Raziel was a TK "Burst" where he just launches something away from himself. It's brute force, not much control. What Kain did to Moebius was actual TK, with fine control so he can move things at will.
The argument was that Kain could hold Spiderman still to attack him. The burst can't do this, but the controlled TK can. Unfortunately, Kain needs to gesture to use the controlled version, which Spiderman can easily avoid.
Couldn't Kain use Charm lv. 3 on Spider-man? Otherwise Immolate would be the only way to go (incinerates all enemies instantly save for the final boss, the Sarafan Lord) which is a demon deity of sorts. He still received heavy damage from the spell though.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So, in the gameplay video, Kain achieves just under 3 full 180 degree arc swings with his weapon, while using Berserk.Is we call it 2.8 attacks that's 0.35 seconds for him to aim and swing a full 180 arc. Lemme do some quick math.
Alright, assuming Kain is 6 feet tall and the reaver's blade is 4 feet long (assuming a fully extended straight armed single handed grip, when he obviously prefers to use both hands, and thus will have a smaller perimeter):
The radius of a full 360 degree swing would be 7 feet, and it's full perimeter would be 43.9 feet. Divide that by 2, for a 180, and we get a generous 21.9 feet travelled by the very trip of his sword.
Now, we multiple this by 2.8 to find out how far it would travel in a full second.
61.5 feet per second with berserk on, for the very tip of his sword.
Edit: How much better would you say Berserk 3 is, Astner? Also, not sure if Charm 3 would be effective or not. I know Spidey's been effected by things like that before, but he's also resisted them before.
The question is how powerful it needs to be to do the former.
I would also like to add that in Soul Reaver there were vampires that could efficiently react to and counter Raziel's sound-wave (Sound glyph) and in Soul Reaver II Raziel could easily dodge bullets.
4:50
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Alright, assuming Kain is 6 feet tall and the reaver's blade is 4 feet long (assuming a fully extended straight armed single handed grip, when he obviously prefers to use both hands, and thus will have a smaller perimeter):The radius of a full 360 degree swing would be 7 feet, and it's full perimeter would be 43.9 feet. Divide that by 2, for a 180, and we get a generous 21.9 feet travelled by the very trip of his sword.
Now, we multiple this by 2.8 to find out how far it would travel in a full second.
61.5 feet per second with berserk on, for the very tip of his sword.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And to be fair, Spider-man isn't much faster than Captain America, his spider-sense account for a lot. He usually operates at speeds comparable to that of cars on the streets of New York.Edit: How much better would you say Berserk 3 is, Astner? Also, not sure if Charm 3 would be effective or not. I know Spidey's been effected by things like that before, but he's also resisted them before.
The question is how powerful it needs to be to do the former.
Problem is that it's a calculation based off game mechanics. In the game everything from bullets to shock-waves (both faster than sound) seem to move rather slowly. Furthermore you assume that all swings were visible and accounted for. The rotor of a helicopter might seem slower than it actually is.Well, actually, primitive bullets had a wide variance of speed, and not all shockwaves move quite so quickly, but to be fair to myself and my calculations:
I'm only working with what I have. There's really no other evidence for exactly how fast it is. The best feat it has is basicly the gameplay. I can't really assume more thna I can see.
Also, I didn't type that Captain America blurb O-o; But Spidey can IIRC outrun cars, but swings and jumps much more quickly.
As for Raziel easily dodging bullets, I went to 4:50 all I really saw was an enemy with a primitive gun shoot at him in optional gameplay and stuff. Is there a canon instance of Raziel specificly dodging a bullet after it's fired?
Originally posted by illadelph12Astner's got me convinced it's not a stomp, but I am still leaning towards Spiderman for majority.
Hmm...I'm actually leaning more towards Kain than Spiderman. Seems like he has the tools to beat Peter.
The simple problem is Kain has to tag spidey to win, and Spidey has shown how hard that can be.
Originally posted by EtnaWell, Dumah, the most physicly durable vampire was impaled by humans. Kain had his heart ripped out by Raziel. Spiderman should be able to knock him around and put him down.
Sorry if this was already stated. But what is Kains durability? Would Spiderman be able to hurt Kain
Originally posted by ScreamPasteYou never proved Spiderman can get close enough long enough to do the damage necessary to win the matchup. Earth to paste.
mariofacepalm Did you even read my post? Seriously?Me:
.
Spidey is fast enough to avoid a push, and if Kain waits til Spidey is close [b]it will be too late
You:
If Spidey's close he has to move away to avoid it!Difference? There are feats to support Spidey's speed.
Me:
I tell you Kain is stronger, and that I actually posted the highest number for his strength in this thread.
You:
You ignore this and ask me if I want more proof Kain is strong, while posting a pathetic strength feat.Difference: You OBVIOUSLY didn't read my post.
Also, I tell you the scans are on page one, and that you should read a thread you're participating in. You ignore me, and continue to badger me to quote Parmaniac when you could EASILY click the little "1" and go look for yourself.
The difference is, you were trying to use it as a feat, which it is not. I have played the game, so keep claiming I haven't, but whatever I seem to know more about it than you do since you can't even quote the freakin' dialogue right AND try to use the dialogue and some of Kain's weakest feats (a heart rip, really?) to make a no-limit fallacy Kain is stronger/faster than everyone because he's implied to be stronger/faster than most humans in his own universe. GJ. [/B]
I asked you which feats and you conceded.
What, I said the game portrays him as very fast and cited berserk mode which is a straightforward ability from the game. Why would I have to put up a link showing what this ability does if you played the game? Think before you speak.
Originally posted by The ScenarioHe can use this as an effective attack and can gesture immediately afterwards to choke him out based on the abilities he has displayed.
What Kain did to Raziel was a TK "Burst" where he just launches something away from himself. It's brute force, not much control. What Kain did to Moebius was actual TK, with fine control so he can move things at will.The argument was that Kain could hold Spiderman still to attack him. The burst can't do this, but the controlled TK can. Unfortunately, Kain needs to gesture to use the controlled version, which Spiderman can easily avoid.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He can use this as an effective attack and can gesture immediately afterwards to choke him out based on the abilities he has displayed.
He's not fast enough to use it before Spiderman puts a fist through his skull. Even if he could, Spiderman is quick enough to recover or get out of the way. Then likely cover Kain's face with webbing.
And, if you aren't going to check and Scream isn't going to get the quote, I'll do it.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Agility
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4769/agilityavoids5superhuma.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/505/agilityavoidsblastsfrom.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4482/agilityavoidsbullets3mk.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/214/agilityavoidslasersfrom.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9716/lanternssmv156.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1029/agilitybeatsmrxinnerdem.jpgDurability
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3796/durabilitytakesanexplos.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8951/durabilitytakesseverale.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8951/durabilitytakesseverale.jpgIron Spider Suit
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8490/ironspiderbulletproof1a.jpg
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/404/ironspiderbulletproof2a.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpgJump
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1158/jumpgiantleap1ssmv1260.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5263/jumpingvlp04.jpgSpeed
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3473/speedrescuesapersonfrom.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6041/speedfasterthanthehuman.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/553/speedfasterthantheeyesm.jpg
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/9044/speedgreengoblinstatest.jpgStrength
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6992/strengthliftsatraincara.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5196/strengthcarefullyliftsa.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5196/strengthcarefullyliftsa.jpg
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/9748/strengthstopsatruckasmv.jpgWebbing
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5506/webbingfireresistantssm.jpgSpider-Sense
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2397/spidersensewosmv209.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, Dumah, the most physicly durable vampire was impaled by humans. Kain had his heart ripped out by Raziel. Spiderman should be able to knock him around and put him down.
Kain's mist form however makes him impervious to any physical damage. But you're right, there aren't many durability feats in the Legacy of Kain series.
Originally posted by The Scenario
He's not fast enough to use it before Spiderman puts a fist through his skull. Even if he could, Spiderman is quick enough to recover or get out of the way. Then likely cover Kain's face with webbing.
Originally posted by quanchi112My God, you are hopeless.
You never proved Spiderman can get close enough long enough to do the damage necessary to win the matchup. Earth to paste.I asked you which feats and you conceded.
What, I said the game portrays him as very fast and cited berserk mode which is a straightforward ability from the game. Why would I have to put up a link showing what this ability does if you played the game? Think before you speak.
Spiderman is faster, more agile, with better relfexes, more mobility, ect, how could he NOT get close to Kain? Is Kain gonna TK push? Spidey's precog kicks in and he avoids, keeps coming before Kain can do it again. Plus Kain has limmited magic and Spidey has great stamina.
😆 Directing you to read the thread is a concession? No. The feats have been posted, you simply choose to not look at them.
An ability =/= a feat. Berserk is a dark gift that amps him slightly. It is not a speed feat, a reflex feat, it's just Kain going berserk. Also, lol@ you still trying to insinuating I haven't played. Can you show me a feat? No? HEEEY, maybe you haven't played it. 😐 You can't seem to list any feats from the game you claim to have played. haermm
