Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Europe has never understood the concept of personal freedoms.
[quote=lil bitchiness]It's a great decision and the one that has been long overdue. If they want to wear such clothes they can move to Saudi Arabia.
That's silly. Most of Europe has just as much a grasp of personal freedom as the US, they just don't wear it sillily as a badge without understanding the concept. I suppose you have a point, if you define personal freedoms as chanting "land of the free, land of the free" while all around you they are corroded with cheer.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Europe has never understood the concept of personal freedoms.
[quote=lil bitchiness]It's a great decision and the one that has been long overdue. If they want to wear such clothes they can move to Saudi Arabia.
Europe doesn't understand the concept of personal freedoms? 😆
What the **** is that even supposed to mean? Stop talking out of your arse.
Europe is a continent. It's a big place with shit loads of cultures... Many of which are far more liberal in regards to what is acceptable for a person to do than your United States.
Originally posted by §P0oONY
Europe is a continent. It's a big place with shit loads of cultures... Many of which are far more liberal in regards to what is acceptable for a person to do than your United States.
Liberality of culture and approach to personal freedom are not the same thing, though. Most EU nations are very different from America when it comes to what guaranteeing person freedoms means.
Take Germany as one example, it's illegal to deny the holocaust there. In the US such a law would be unthinkable to just about everyone but it seems (and Europeans should correct me here) that Germans and Europeans in general see that as needlessly permissive and prefer to turn the law against the aggressor rather than hold freedom of speech utterly sacrosanct.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Liberality of culture and approach to personal freedom are not the same thing, though. Most EU nations are very different from America when it comes to what guaranteeing person freedoms means.Take Germany as one example, it's illegal to deny the holocaust there. In the US such a law would be unthinkable to just about everyone but it seems (and Europeans should correct me here) that Germans and Europeans in general see that as needlessly permissive and prefer to turn the law against the aggressor rather than hold freedom of speech utterly sacrosanct.
That's rather selective though, the US does limit personal freedoms in many other ways. Saying that "Europe never understood" implies something very different than that they have different interpretations as to what personal freedoms should be limited how. Like I said, the issue that you bend over backwards to get shafted for the illusion that you can have your guns, and say what you want and are oh so free, is imo an American phenomenon. The limitations actually are quite similar, the attitude towards it isn't necessarily.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosRight... So in what way are a British person's "personal freedoms" restricted? In a way that an Amercan's is not??
Liberality of culture and approach to personal freedom are not the same thing, though. Most EU nations are very different from America when it comes to what guaranteeing person freedoms means.Take Germany as one example, it's illegal to deny the holocaust there. In the US such a law would be unthinkable to just about everyone but it seems (and Europeans should correct me here) that Germans and Europeans in general see that as needlessly permissive and prefer to turn the law against the aggressor rather than hold freedom of speech utterly sacrosanct.
Originally posted by §P0oONY
Right... So in what way are a British person's "personal freedoms" restricted? In a way that an Amercan's is not??
iirc it is illegal to deny the holocaust in britain as well...
or was it that a brit was recently arrested somewhere else for denying the holocaust...
EDIT: anyways, there are a series of blasphemy laws in britain that dont exist in north america
Originally posted by inimalist
iirc it is illegal to deny the holocaust in britain as well...or was it that a brit was recently arrested somewhere else for denying the holocaust...
EDIT: anyways, there are a series of blasphemy laws in britain that dont exist in north america
I think you're referring to David Irving who was jailed in Austria for a speech crime called "trivializing, grossly playing down and denying the holocaust".
Originally posted by jaden101
I think you're referring to David Irving who was jailed in Austria for a speech crime called "trivializing, grossly playing down and denying the holocaust".
Which is a bummer...though at least he's afforded a real trial with a lawyer....also isn't tortured. But those are the less important personal freedoms.
I agree that there is no great difference in the limitation of personal freedoms in most western countries today, and not just europe and usa, but latin america and australia as well. Many other non-western countries have similar degrees of interference in the behavior of the individual.
What puzzles me about the american attitude, and I agree with mindship here, is how special and unique they believe their situation is. Specially since this speech about a land of the free with special rights and awesome unique individual liberties dates back to the times when homosexuality was a crime and black people couldnt be served in a restaurant - notice that a lot of people in the usa still view the right to keep them darkies out as an individual liberty that is being infringed upon by current laws.
Today the usa is still full of prudish laws interfering with private behavior, can barely keep church and state separate, despite its first ammendment, and both government and population harrass people living outside norms of behavior.
I view this illusion as directly tied to beliefs in american exceptionality and related jingoistic absurdities.
With all that said, the situation regarding regulating Islam in europe is becoming pretty absurd and unique in the western world. There are legal bans on the building of mosques and prayer halls in italy (they only apply to mosques, not christian churches), and even headscarfs that only cover the hair are being banned in germany, holland and several other countries, usually with half assed excuses about secularity and women's rights. I think behind the defence of laicité and feminism lies a xenophobic panic about the loss of european identity.
That's silly. Most of Europe has just as much a grasp of personal freedom as the US, they just don't wear it sillily as a badge without understanding the concept. I suppose you have a point, if you define personal freedoms as chanting "land of the free, land of the free" while all around you they are corroded with cheer.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
[
Muslim and arabs are the same and you are the one who is a moron! 😛
That could be true if 20+ million Chinese morphed into Arabs.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo[/QUOTE]
Europe has never understood the concept of personal freedoms.
[quote=lil bitchiness]It's a great decision and the one that has been long overdue. If they want to wear such clothes they can move to Saudi Arabia.
And Americans never understood the concept of continents and countries.
And apparently some posters on here don't either.
Banning the veil still wont do a damn thing to stop us from to eventually becoming a majority group in Europe.
Im so happy to see that in the UK this wont happen and the UK has around 3 million British muslims which is alot less than France.
Leicester will have an Asian majority population by around 2020 and i hope the same thing happens to all the major cities across Britain
Originally posted by majid86
Banning the veil still wont do a damn thing to stop us from to eventually becoming a majority group in Europe.
Im so happy to see that in the UK this wont happen and the UK has around 3 million British muslims which is alot less than France.
I don't think France has any British muslims.
Originally posted by majid86
Leicester will have an Asian majority population by around 2020 and i hope the same thing happens to all the major cities across Britain
The last statistics I found in a quick search show the number of Asians in Leicester shrinking.