Originally posted by zopzop
The manner in which he was awakened had something to do with that. Apparently it isn't easy to undo the damage an entire Host of Celestials did to him to imprison him (which was supposedly to last forever).
So they can get weakened. Just not the same way as Galactus.
But that's the thing. The issue where that was from was AFTER the Epic Necrom/Summers Phoenix duel. Rachel went into a coma and the Phoenix was healing her psyche. It was at that fight that the Phoenix was reunited with the essence Necrom stole from it all those centuries ago. And the Rachel/Necrom fight was after Excalibur 25.
No matter. The Galactus-Rachel fight that happened in Excalibur 61 (after Necrom's death in 51) and in the fight the full Phoenix Force (as you said) could barely defeat a hungry Galactus that was minding his own business.
Exactly right. This was shown on panel and Rachel stated that if they kept this up, the universe would go bye bye. And she wasn't exaggerating too. Necrom kept upping the odds. First moons, then igniting super giants, then destroying solar systems.[/quote[Yea, nothing really was destroyed compared to Galactus's top fights. In Rom 27, Galactus with a thought relocated an entire galaxy... And this was after Galactus stopped his feeding process and 'lost' to the black solar system: http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/394/rom02721vt0.jpg
[quote]This was never shown on panel, it's kinda like Sentry stalemating Galactus (stated but never shown).
Which is good enough. Thanos said it in a narration and usually narration = truth. As for Sentry stalemating Galactus, only Spiderman has said it with Nate Grey later confirming it (Nate Grey was helping Sentry) in dialogue boxes - But anyways, that doesn't really seem unlikely to me at all considering all of Galactus' defeats when hungry.
This is just speculation. We don't know what Tiamut did to Galactus. It should also be noted this change to Galactus took place while Tiamut was in his imprisoned state (he was able to manipulate Galactus' physiology even while imprisoned).
All Tiamut did was take away Galactus' ability to stop himself from feeding. This was/is still well within Galactus' power,
it's just that Galactus chooses not to eat all reality because it's not in his interest. This is why Galactus eats only one planet at a time,
which is just enough to keep him stable for the moment, but Galactus has proven he can go on and devour far more, he's been seen eating Mephisto's realm (a pocket universe), he's been seen feeding on the infinite energies of Hyperstorm, and he's already been seen as having the right to erase the Phoenix Force itself from existence.
They weren't trying to kill him. He was beneath them. They swatted him away like they did the Unimind. They didn't kill the Unimind just dispersed it. They did pwn the Destroyer armor powered by Odin and all the Gods in Asgard though. And it should be noted that when Odin was creating the Destroyer armor all the other Skyfather's lent a portion of their power to it. So the Celestials toying with it like a cat with a mouse is even more impressive.
Exactly. Same thing for Galactus. He was swatting Thor away like a fly with no intention of killing him.
Originally posted by galactusischere
[B]So they can get weakened. Just not the same way as Galactus.
No that's the thing. They can't be weakened. What happened to Tiamut was unheard of in Celestial history. He was "jumped" by his own crew, his energy removed and locked in a key, and imprisoned forever. Celestials don't weaken or get hungry like Galactus does. What happened to Tiamut is unique to him.
No matter. The Galactus-Rachel fight that happened in Excalibur 61 (after Necrom's death in 51) and in the fight the full Phoenix Force (as you said) could barely defeat a hungry Galactus that was minding his own business.
It wasn't trying to kill him. Just drive him away from the already dead planet it was trying to "save". Less than her have had Galactus in fear for his life.
Which is good enough. Thanos said it in a narration and usually narration = truth. As for Sentry stalemating Galactus, only Spiderman has said it with Nate Grey later confirming it (Nate Grey was helping Sentry) in dialogue boxes - But anyways, that doesn't really seem unlikely to me at all considering all of Galactus' defeats when hungry.
That's always the excuse, he's hungry. Every single time over these past, what, 40 years. He's been owned over and over. We've never seen Galactus do anything like what Thanos said in his fight vs Tyrant (he "teleported a galaxy once" in the ROM series but nothing approaching that ever again). If anything Thanos was indulging in hyperbole.
All Tiamut did was take away Galactus' ability to stop himself from feeding. This was/is still well within Galactus' power,
it's just that Galactus chooses not to eat all reality because it's not in his interest. This is why Galactus eats only one planet at a time,
which is just enough to keep him stable for the moment, but Galactus has proven he can go on and devour far more, he's been seen eating Mephisto's realm (a pocket universe), he's been seen feeding on the infinite energies of Hyperstorm, and he's already been seen as having the right to erase the Phoenix Force itself from existence.
We don't know what Tiamut did to Galactus while Tiamut was imprisoned.
Eating "pocket dimensions" is meaningless, we don't know how large said dimensions are. In fact back in the 89 edition of the Handbook of the Marvel Universe, it showed the 9 worlds of Norse tradition as being more or less the size of the Earth. And this was 9 "pocket dimensions" : muspel, niffelhiem, asgard, etc...
Yeah he can "erase her" (never shown on panel, at worst he was killing Rachel Summers by separating her from the Phoenix) using his tech and only when she submitted herself to it. Nice feat. It's like Tito Ortiz allowing me to pummel him with a hammer without fighting back or defending himself. Not really much of a feat now is it?
Exactly. Same thing for Galactus. He was swatting Thor away like a fly with no intention of killing him.
What? In what issue? The Thor/Galactus fight I'm talking about is when Thor used his Godblast to make Galactus flee or die.
Originally posted by zopzopthey don't have his ability to geometrically increase his strength and power either. it goes both ways.
No that's the thing. They can't be weakened. What happened to Tiamut was unheard of in Celestial history. He was "jumped" by his own crew, his energy removed and locked in a key, and imprisoned forever. Celestials don't weaken or get hungry like Galactus does. What happened to Tiamut is unique to him.
That's always the excuse, he's hungry. Every single time over these past, what, 40 years. He's been owned over and over. We've never seen Galactus do anything like what Thanos said in his fight vs Tyrant (he "teleported a galaxy once" in the ROM series but nothing approaching that ever again). If anything Thanos was indulging in hyperbole.that's comics. almost ever low-end feat for Galactus is explained away by his being hungry or starving or near death. There's no getting around the issue as that is the plot device used for the story. And the hunger of galactus is one of most convenient plot devices for a writer; if the heroes need to win, then make galactus hungry. If the universe needs to be saved, then have Galactus strong. etc.
We don't know what Tiamut did to Galactus while Tiamut was imprisoned.we know tiamut tampered with his hunger, that is it. It was stated on panel that he manipulated specifically his hunger. It's also quite telling that to enact his plan, Tiamut had to use an instrument more capable than himself. And if you argue Galactus wasn't more capable, then why would Tiamut have not done it himself?
Further to the point, when has any single celestial (aside from scathan, who was never seen again) fought a being as powerful as Galactus? Who? What issue? What was the outcome?
The burden of proof is on you, since there are no feats of this regard.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
they don't have his ability to geometrically increase his strength and power either. it goes both ways.
Yes in their favor. They may not be able to "geometrically increase their power" (we dont' even know that as a fact by the way) but at least they aren't getting pwned by Thor's Godblasts or being chased off by Odin.
. If the universe needs to be saved, then have Galactus strong. etc.
He's failed epically (like the other abstracts) when it really counted (Infinity Gems and the HotU). During the Infinity War he was just sorta their as Magus was making fools of him and the Earth heroes with 5 measly cosmic cubes.
we know tiamut tampered with his hunger, that is it. It was stated on panel that he manipulated specifically his hunger.
No we know a little more than that. It was stated on panel that Tiamut "dreamed him whole but changed". A bound, comatose Tiamut healed and altered Galactus' physiology. That's more a feat in Tiamut's favor than anything else.
It's also quite telling that to enact his plan, Tiamut had to use an instrument more capable than himself. And if you argue Galactus wasn't more capable, then why would Tiamut have not done it himself?
Tiamut used Galactus as his patsy. He was to destroy the universe (and then himself) leaving only Tiamut and his mountain prison as the only survivors, which Tiamut would then recreate the universe with him as God. Why would Tiamut basically kamikazee himself when he had a living bomb in Galactus, a living bomb which HE created.
Further to the point, when has any single celestial (aside from scathan, who was never seen again) fought a being as powerful as Galactus? Who? What issue? What was the outcome?The burden of proof is on you, since there are no feats of this regard.
Check the Celestial Respect Thread. Scathan pwned the Protege who was greater than the Tribunal. Tiamut rose to true Godhood at the end of the Eternals arc. The Fulcrum (aka Jack Kirby) stated that he's seen other Celestials evolve to greater positions of power but Tiamut broke free of his programming and became the Fulcrum's equal.
We've seen Arshiem tank 3 angry Skyfathers and not even flinch. We've seen the Odin + all Asgard Destroyer do nothing against them and be melted into slag (in the Atlantis Attacks Thor Annual, Thor even stated the the Destroyer was probably capable of killing Galactus). We've seen Kubik and Kosmos (****two full Cube Beings) fear for their lives when an UNNAMED Celestial was about to pass judgment on them (they stated that the Celestials were several magnitudes greater than them in power).
****Check and see what Magus was able to do with 5 Cosmic Cubes during the Infinity War.
Originally posted by zopzop
We've seen Arshiem tank 3 angry Skyfathers and not even flinch. We've seen the Odin + all Asgard Destroyer do nothing against them and be melted into slag (in the Atlantis Attacks Thor Annual, Thor even stated the the Destroyer was probably capable of killing Galactus). We've seen Kubik and Kosmos (****two full Cube Beings) fear for their lives when an UNNAMED Celestial was about to pass judgment on them (they stated that the Celestials were several magnitudes greater than them in power).
We've also seen Arishem get a hole blown through him by the Odin Sword. We've seen Doom with Galactus' power destroy Odin and Asgardian army + earth. We've seen alt reality Galacti hold off several Celestials. We've seen Ego hold off two named Celestials (I'm not talking about Super Ego, a canon story I think) by himself for a period of time. We've seen Galactus feed on Hyperspace. We've been told that Galactus is capable of destroying both negative and positive universes (guess who resides in the universes). We've seen THOTI kill Celestials, but not Galactus even though he was just near the front lines.
Kubik also said that Galactus was one of the greatest powers in the known reality - On par with the likes of Eternity (who is the creator of the Celestials).
****Check and see what Magus was able to do with 5 Cosmic Cubes during the Infinity War.
What did he do exactly? He blasted Galactus, destroyed his ship, sent Galactus to Mistress Death's realm and back when Galactus was off guard and had his defenses down. Galactus > 5 PRE-MATURE Cubes. A pre-mature cube > a mature cube such as Kubik.
