Bible question and answers

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That was sarcaum. Remember I told you I am very sarcastic.

* okay…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That’s fine, and I agree. Idolatry is prohibited in the Christian religion. It is also prohibited in the Catholic religion as far as I know. Have you ever asked a Catholic for yourself?

* of course, they will tell you it's also prohibited in their religion… why are you pro-catholic and anti-christian so suddenly? catholics will tell you idolatry is also prohibited in catholicism but their actions disprove what they say… their official doctrine also disproves what they say… have you read my posts? it's there… really… just open your eyes…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was asking for the deeper meaning, like the will of god, or something.

* the Christian doctrines should be according to the will of God…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Worshipping a god is not important; and that is winning.

* you just missed the point… and that's not winning… 😛

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I still think it is all in your head.

* nah… it's already out there… not just in my head… you just need to open your eyes…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was asking you for some examples of Buddhist “Rights” and “Wrongs”. So, give me a couple of “Rights” and “Wrongs” in Buddhism.

* Ten Precepts… I already posted it earlier…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is a difference between joking around and having a since of humor.

If someone makes fun of your religion, do you consider that to be a joke about your commitment?

* depends on the joke… there are tolerable jokes, but there are below-the-belt…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That was a long time ago. I have friends who are Catholic, and I wouldn’t say that what they do is idolatry. Its all just superstition.

* are you living on earth? they are obviously praying, bowing and kneeling in front of the statue of Mary and/or saints, they lift those statues and dance it around during their procession/parade/festivals, some even hug and kiss those statues… some devout Catholics even jump on other fellow catholics or even in an impending danger just to touch those statues… yeah, it's also superstition to me, but to them, it's a worship service…

Originally posted by King Castle
right and wrongs are labels the goal of various sects of Buddhism is to transcend such views...

some are taught to walk the swords edge neither good or bad to find a balance..

to do things without animosity, take no pleasure in suffering of others but realize that life is suffering to not over indulge in what may bring you pleasure whether its food, join etc etc... Nirvana is the goal for many Buddhist and finding peace.

your attempt to equate your concept of right and wrong kinda fails when it comes to Buddhism..

its like the common person who beliefs Karma is a good or bad allegory.... it is not, it is simply is a purpose of what is all things effecting another, action and reaction with labels of right and wrong not applying.

can you tell a sun what it does is right or wrong?

* you are wrong (no pun intended)… Buddhism is a religion and philosophy encompassing a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama or Buddha… but, for example, you claim to be a Buddhist but you do not abide by those traditions, beliefs and practices, how can you prove to me or everyone else that you're a Buddhist? just because you say so? i'm not convinced...

* another thing, in Buddhism, there are Buddhist ethics or "sila", commonly translated as "virtuous behavior", "morality", "ethics" or "precept"… they have these Ten Precepts that a Buddhist must abide and live according to… and I repeat:

1 - To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsâ
2 - To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
3 - To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
4 - To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
5 - To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)
6 - To refrain from taking food at an unseasonable time, that is after the mid-day meal
7 - To refrain from dancing, music, singing and unseemly shows
8 - To refrain from the use of garlands, perfumes, ointments, and from things that tend to beautify and adorn (the person)
9 - To refrain from (using) high and luxurious seats (and beds)
10 - To refrain from accepting gold and silver

sensibly, abiding these precepts are the "rights" and disobeying these are the "wrongs"… these precepts serve as a guide to the life of a Buddhist… in same manner, the teachings, laws and commandments of God/Christ/apostles in the Bible… abiding these commandments are the "rights" and disobeying these are the "wrongs"…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Suffering is wrong.

* now, why did you conclude that suffering is wrong? (sarcasm intended, 😛) considering both of you agreed that rights and wrongs do not apply in Buddhism? 🙄

Originally posted by peejayd
* of course, they will tell you it's also prohibited in their religion… why are you pro-catholic and anti-christian so suddenly? catholics will tell you idolatry is also prohibited in catholicism but their actions disprove what they say… their official doctrine also disproves what they say… have you read my posts? it's there… really… just open your eyes…

I still think it is all in your head. What I mean is that you (your religion) have decided what idolatry is. What you had concluded is idolatry is in the action, and not necessarily in your heart. I disagree, 180 deg. Idolatry is in the heart and not in the actions. Candles and incense does not matter, but what is in the heart is all important. Someone can worship their car without ever lighting a candle.

Originally posted by peejayd
* Ten Precepts… I already posted it earlier…

What “denomination” of Buddhism is that from?

Originally posted by peejayd
* depends on the joke… there are tolerable jokes, but there are below-the-belt…

I suggest you lower your belt.

Originally posted by peejayd
* are you living on earth? they are obviously praying, bowing and kneeling in front of the statue of Mary and/or saints, they lift those statues and dance it around during their procession/parade/festivals, some even hug and kiss those statues… some devout Catholics even jump on other fellow catholics or even in an impending danger just to touch those statues… yeah, it's also superstition to me, but to them, it's a worship service…

There are Christians who handle poisonous snakes. I’m sure if you look at the people in your own denomination, you will find people who “worship” things in their lives.

Originally posted by peejayd
* now, why did you conclude that suffering is wrong? (sarcasm intended, 😛) considering both of you agreed that rights and wrongs do not apply in Buddhism? 🙄

The only sin in Buddhism (I speak only for what I believe) is slander of the law.

Originally posted by peejayd
* teaching you otherwise proves that your "christian" religious affiliation way back was not really a Christian group after all… [b]claiming is one thing, but proving is another thing… being a Christian is not done by "claiming"… read these passages:

* see? not just because you think you're doing what you think is right, then it's okay… nope, just like what I've said earlier, we should learn the true doctrine of a certain religion, and from that point on, we can discern if what we are doing, in our own respective religions, is right or wrong…[/B]

I’ve heard this kind of hate before. If someone doesn’t agree with you, then the answer is to dehumanize then. In this case you are de-Christianizing them. It is just another type of hate. Now that you have de-Christianized Catholics and Baptists, you can feel superior. This superiority leads to suffering. That is why if anyone says the least little thing negative about your religion, you fly off the handle.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I still think it is all in your head.

* no, you only refuse to accept I'm right…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What I mean is that you (your religion) have decided what idolatry is.

* no… the word "idolatry" speaks for itself, it's the worshipping of an idol… what is an "idol"? it's an image of a deity other than the Deity itself… now, if idolatry is prohibited in Christianity, what part of it are you refusing to understand?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What you had concluded is idolatry is in the action, and not necessarily in your heart. I disagree, 180 deg. Idolatry is in the heart and not in the actions. Candles and incense does not matter, but what is in the heart is all important. Someone can worship their car without ever lighting a candle.

* while I do agree that idolatry is in the heart, you should not disregard the idolatry in the actions… remember that the actions are always the manifestations of the heart…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What “denomination” of Buddhism is that from?

* welcome to Buddhism, mr.shakyamunison… I'm not surprised you're trying to elude this topic…

Buddhist ethics

Úîla (Sanskrit) or sîla (Pâli) is usually translated into English as "virtuous behavior", "morality", "ethics" or "precept". It is an action committed through the body, speech, or mind, and involves an intentional effort. It is one of the three practices (sila, samadhi, and panya) and the second pâramitâ. It refers to moral purity of thought, word, and deed. The four conditions of úîla are chastity, calmness, quiet, and extinguishment.

Úîla is the foundation of Samadhi/Bhâvana (Meditative cultivation) or mind cultivation. Keeping the precepts promotes not only the peace of mind of the cultivator, which is internal, but also peace in the community, which is external. According to the Law of Karma, keeping the precepts are meritorious and it acts as causes which would bring about peaceful and happy effects. Keeping these precepts keeps the cultivator from rebirth in the four woeful realms of existence.

Úîla refers to overall principles of ethical behavior. There are several levels of sila, which correspond to "basic morality" (five precepts), "basic morality with asceticism" (eight precepts), "novice monkhood" (ten precepts) and "monkhood" (Vinaya or Patimokkha). Lay people generally undertake to live by the five precepts, which are common to all Buddhist schools. If they wish, they can choose to undertake the eight precepts, which add basic asceticism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I suggest you lower your belt.

* I guess so…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There are Christians who handle poisonous snakes. I’m sure if you look at the people in your own denomination, you will find people who “worship” things in their lives.

* sorry… that "look-who's-talking"-line is not applicable in my religion… if you refuse to accept idolatry in catholicism, it's your call, what they're doing is idolatry not because I say so, or my religion says so… no, they're committing idolatry with the very meaning of the word, not just according to the Bible but also according to mr.webster himself…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The only sin in Buddhism (I speak only for what I believe) is slander of the law.

* here I thought you were trying to present factual Buddhism doctrine… but then again, you only speak what you believe… this is clearly a copout…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I’ve heard this kind of hate before. If someone doesn’t agree with you, then the answer is to dehumanize then. In this case you are de-Christianizing them. It is just another type of hate. Now that you have de-Christianized Catholics and Baptists, you can feel superior.

* you need to tighten your boots then… what I'm spewing is not hate… Christianity has a basis, and it's the word of God in the Bible… there are wrongs and rights… I'm not doing this to feel superior, actually, I do not engage in religious debates in person… I'm only saying this in internet forums so there is no freakin' way it's about ego… I have lots of catholic friends, but we don't usually talk about religion stuff… I'm just giving Bible verses if they asked me to… I don't judge or condemn people, esp. catholics because most of them are very dear to me… what I'm after is the Catholic doctrine, not the Catholic people… do you get what I'm saying or do I have to repeat this over and over again?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This superiority leads to suffering. That is why if anyone says the least little thing negative about your religion, you fly off the handle.

* it's funny how to remember something about "suffering" which is part of the Four Noble Truth is Buddhism doctrine, yet you tend to forget the Ten Precepts or "Sila" which is part of the Noble Eightfold Path…

* look, mr.shakyamunison, if you are just speaking for yourself, then why argue about Buddhism? you always say you're a Buddhist but you are just speaking for yourself… this "style" of yours is not sarcasm but a whole lotta copout to me… 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
*

* you are wrong (no pun intended)… Buddhism is a religion and philosophy encompassing a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama or Buddha… but, for example, [b]you claim to be a Buddhist but you do not abide by those traditions, beliefs and practices, how can you prove to me or everyone else that you're a Buddhist? just because you say so?[b] i'm not convinced...

Originally posted by peejayd
* * another thing, in Buddhism, there are Buddhist ethics or "sila", commonly translated as "virtuous behavior", "morality", "ethics" or "precept"… they have these Ten Precepts that a Buddhist must abide and live according to… and I repeat:

[b]1 - To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsâ
2 - To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
3 - To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
4 - To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
5 - To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)
6 - To refrain from taking food at an unseasonable time, that is after the mid-day meal
7 - To refrain from dancing, music, singing and unseemly shows
8 - To refrain from the use of garlands, perfumes, ointments, and from things that tend to beautify and adorn (the person)
9 - To refrain from (using) high and luxurious seats (and beds)
10 - To refrain from accepting gold and silver

sensibly, abiding these precepts are the "rights" and disobeying these are the "wrongs"… these precepts serve as a guide to the life of a Buddhist… in same manner, the teachings, laws and commandments of God/Christ/apostles in the Bible… abiding these commandments are the "rights" and disobeying these are the "wrongs"…[/B]

let's start point by point. 😖mart:
great job on using wiki and taking out of context and history but lets enlighten one another.
😛

🤓

Not sure how many people actually know this but there is no scripture written or dictated directly from Shakyamuni's time when he was alive. the 1st written scriptures were written down 100 B.C. Shakyamuni 483 or 543 or 544 B.C.

what you posted are supposed teachings Recommendations not Commandments ala the bible. each person is to use their intelligence which best suits them and the best way for them to honor them...
Hence, there are parables to fully explain some of these

King Asoka chose 1000 teachers ( or so it was said) to collate the final teachings. At that time, the king’s favorite sect was the so called Vibhajyavada sect ( Note 4). Thus the teaching authenticated was basically doctrines according to this sect. 😛
what you did is try to grab a sects teaching and apply it to all Followers of the Shakyamuni..
😉
not sure who translated the precepts for you but the "refrain" should be 'Respect" and each of them should have the full clarification of the way so as not to be taken out of context nor confused with the western world's concept of morality or as: Religious commandments...

shakyamuni compared his to the wheel of Dharma and the eight spokes leading to one goal.

each precept is to help you detach yourself from the world and thus eliminate your suffering and free yourself in order to achieve real peace/nirvana(nothingness).

Zen Bhuddism does not require one to follow the same path as Shaky which Shaky himself realized can be done through various paths and through mediation without the need of the gradual process as his.

we are all allowed to follow our own path hence, why there has bn: warriors, monks, MA's, Zen Masters, Christian buddhist, Hindi, Shinto, poor and rich.. etc etc.. hell, there are stories of others being enlighten by the actions of others and or not even knowing the teachings of the buddha but, i am sure you know this since you studied the scriptures, stories and whatnot where you pulled out those quotes from.🙄 in one of the myth stories a 'Demon" rose above his nature and detached himself and became enlighten...
😛

Originally posted by peejayd

* now, why did you conclude that suffering is wrong? (sarcasm intended, 😛) considering both of you agreed that rights and wrongs do not apply in Buddhism? 🙄

" it is not the actions that are neither right nor wrong it is the intend of the individual.

i wasnt done posting and making my thought out point but i confused this thread with another so i'll have to further explain in another post.

anyways.. right thought right actions are not based on morality concept but in doing something to the best of your ability as in fire the bow the right way, do something the right way not sloppy or half @$$ seeking perfection in ones actions is more of a mental exercise and less to do with morality..

now do you think Shakyamuni abandoning his wife and kids was "right" by your concept of morality and what do you think such actions are look on by a follower of shakyamuni?

right and wrongs are arbitrary terms based on individual's belief which are change from person to person to religion/philosphy and ethics which many think is interchangeable with morality...

Originally posted by peejayd
* no, you only refuse to accept I'm right…

I don’t care about that.

Originally posted by peejayd
* no… the word "idolatry" speaks for itself, it's the worshipping of an idol… what is an "idol"? it's an image of a deity other than the Deity itself… now, if idolatry is prohibited in Christianity, what part of it are you refusing to understand?

Idolatry is prohibited in Christianity, but there are things that can be worshiped, and worshiping those things is also idolatry. That means that idolatry is in the heart. I think you misunderstand when a Buddhist prays before a statue of Buddha. You think it is idolatry, but it is not.

Originally posted by peejayd
* while [b]I do agree that idolatry is in the heart, you should not disregard the idolatry in the actions… remember that the actions are always the manifestations of the heart…[/B]

This is true. So, by knowing the heart of the person, you can then know if what they are doing is idolatry. If you simply look at the actions, then how can you know without knowing the persons heart?

Originally posted by peejayd
* welcome to Buddhism, mr.shakyamunison… I'm not surprised you're trying to elude this topic…

Let me help you:

Here is a starting place to read about Nichiren Buddhism. I am a Nichiren Buddhist.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/buddhismofnichirendaishonin.php

Originally posted by peejayd
* sorry… that "look-who's-talking"-line is not applicable in my religion… if you refuse to accept idolatry in catholicism, it's your call, what they're doing is idolatry not because I say so, or my religion says so… no, they're committing idolatry with the very meaning of the word, not just according to the Bible but also according to mr.webster himself…

You need to know their heart before you can judge.

Originally posted by peejayd
* here I thought you were trying to present factual Buddhism doctrine… but then again, you only speak what you believe… this is clearly a copout…

I try not to impose my beliefs on to others. I speak as if they are true, because to me they are true.

So, by not imposing beliefs onto others, I am copping out? You do not understand Buddhism.

Originally posted by peejayd
* you need to tighten your boots then… what I'm spewing is not hate… Christianity has a basis, and it's the word of God in the Bible… there are wrongs and rights… I'm not doing this to feel superior, actually, I do not engage in religious debates in person… I'm only saying this in internet forums so there is no freakin' way it's about ego… I have lots of catholic friends, but we don't usually talk about religion stuff… I'm just giving Bible verses if they asked me to… I don't judge or condemn people, esp. catholics because most of them are very dear to me… [b]what I'm after is the Catholic doctrine, not the Catholic people… do you get what I'm saying or do I have to repeat this over and over again?[/B]

You have been doing nothing but judging. You simply do not realize it.

Originally posted by peejayd
* it's funny how to remember something about "suffering" which is part of the Four Noble Truth is Buddhism doctrine, yet you tend to forget the Ten Precepts or "Sila" which is part of the Noble Eightfold Path…

You do not know anything about Nichiren Buddhism.

Originally posted by peejayd
* look, mr.shakyamunison, if you are just speaking for yourself, then why argue about Buddhism? you always say you're a Buddhist but you are just speaking for yourself… this "style" of yours is not sarcasm but a whole lotta copout to me… 😉

You want me to be like you?

Originally posted by King Castle
i never once claimed to be a Buddhist, you can ask shaky what i think of using such titles... but, i did once walk the path of Shakyamuni as part of my Korean TKD Zen training... again the goal is to detach oneself from such labels even to the point of losing one's name.

interesting tell me did you learn all this from a google search or did you actually study what it is you mention?

let's start point by point. 😖mart:
great job on using wiki and taking out of context and history but lets enlighten one another.
😛

🤓

Not sure how many people actually know this but there is no scripture written or dictated directly from Shakyamuni's time when he was alive. the 1st written scriptures were written down 100 B.C. Shakyamuni 483 or 543 or 544 B.C.

what you posted are supposed teachings Recommendations not Commandments ala the bible. each person is to use their intelligence which best suits them and the best way for them to honor them...
Hence, there are parables to fully explain some of these

King Asoka chose 1000 teachers ( or so it was said) to collate the final teachings. At that time, the king’s favorite sect was the so called Vibhajyavada sect ( Note 4). Thus the teaching authenticated was basically doctrines according to this sect. 😛
what you did is try to grab a sects teaching and apply it to all Followers of the Shakyamuni..
😉
not sure who translated the precepts for you but the "refrain" should be 'Respect" and each of them should have the full clarification of the way so as not to be taken out of context nor confused with the western world's concept of morality or as: Religious commandments...

shakyamuni compared his to the wheel of Dharma and the eight spokes leading to one goal.

each precept is to help you detach yourself from the world and thus eliminate your suffering and free yourself in order to achieve real peace/nirvana(nothingness).

Zen Bhuddism does not require one to follow the same path as Shaky which Shaky himself realized can be done through various paths and through mediation without the need of the gradual process as his.

we are all allowed to follow our own path hence, why there has bn: warriors, monks, MA's, Zen Masters, Christian buddhist, Hindi, Shinto, poor and rich.. etc etc.. hell, there are stories of others being enlighten by the actions of others and or not even knowing the teachings of the buddha but, i am sure you know this since you studied the scriptures, stories and whatnot where you pulled out those quotes from.🙄 in one of the myth stories a 'Demon" rose above his nature and detached himself and became enlighten...
😛

Suffering in itself is not wrong nor right.

" it is not the actions that are neither right nor wrong it is the intend of the individual.

i wasnt done posting and making my thought out point but i confused this thread with another so i'll have to further explain in another post.

anyways.. right thought right actions are not based on morality concept but in doing something to the best of your ability as in fire the bow the right way, do something the right way not sloppy or half @$$ seeking perfection in ones actions is more of a mental exercise and less to do with morality..

now do you think Shakyamuni abandoning his wife and kids was "right" by your concept of morality and what do you think such actions are look on by a follower of shakyamuni?

right and wrongs are arbitrary terms based on individual's belief which are change from person to person to religion/philosphy and ethics which many think is interchangeable with morality...

I am improssed, my friend.

dont be i screwed up by not being mindful and posted it b4 fixing and adding more plus links..

i was not in the right mind.. nor was my intend pure.

Originally posted by King Castle
dont be i screwed up by not being mindful and posted it b4 fixing and adding more plus links..

i was not in the right mind.. nor was my intend pure.

That's ok.

reminds me of the monk stories about monks taking each precept to the extreme.

one who could not kill the smallest of creature and felt remorse for every step he took knowing that he could possibly kill and took great care to be mindful.. he would lightly sweep in front of him as he walked.

he would not bathe for fear of killing and when he did he weeped.
he became a hermit in order to keep from killing he would not even pluck a grain of rice to feed himself.

so many stories/parables which shows how we can all honor the precepts. one that we all kill without the slightest intention when we bathe, farm and whatnot... but, it is to not take pleasure when we do and simply be mindful nor prolong the suffering of others man or animal. key word is "Respect" of life.

one that i was taught was that i am to live by my beliefs but not to allow my beliefs to endanger or harm another through action or inaction.. which means i was and i am allowed to kill and violate my oaths to protect others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsqXZyAeVQ8&feature=related
6or0x3nyECk&feature=related

Originally posted by King Castle
i never once claimed to be a Buddhist, you can ask shaky what i think of using such titles...

* I was just citing an example…

Originally posted by King Castle
interesting tell me did you learn all this from a google search or did you actually study what it is you mention?

* wikipedia…

Originally posted by King Castle
great job on using wiki

* thanks!

Originally posted by King Castle
and taking out of context and history but lets enlighten one another.

* I never took it out of context, I practically copy-pasted the whole topic… I never interpreted it on my own but I took it to prove a point… the point was, in Buddhism, there are precepts to follow…

Originally posted by King Castle
what you posted are supposed teachings Recommendations not Commandments ala the bible. each person is to use their intelligence which best suits them and the best way for them to honor them...

* while it was also said that the precepts are not formulated as imperatives, keeping the precepts are meritorious and it acts as causes which would bring about peaceful and happy effects and it also keeps the cultivator from rebirth in the four woeful realms of existence… seems to me, a Buddhist should really keep these precepts in their lives…

Originally posted by King Castle
what you did is try to grab a sects teaching and apply it to all Followers of the Shakyamuni..

* as it should be… don't tell me these precepts where being ignored by some Buddhist sects?

Originally posted by King Castle
not sure who translated the precepts for you but the "refrain" should be 'Respect" and each of them should have the full clarification of the way so as not to be taken out of context nor confused with the western world's concept of morality or as: Religious commandments...

* tell me the wikipedia is wrong…

Originally posted by King Castle
we are all allowed to follow our own path hence, why there has bn: warriors, monks, MA's, Zen Masters, Christian buddhist, Hindi, Shinto, poor and rich.. etc etc.. hell, there are stories of others being enlighten by the actions of others and or not even knowing the teachings of the buddha but, i am sure you know this since you studied the scriptures, stories and whatnot where you pulled out those quotes from.

* though I do agree that you are allowed to follow your own paths, what you’re saying are myths… the application of Buddhism requires Buddhist practice… and in these practices, you will attain enlightment, in the end, nirvana…

Originally posted by King Castle
in one of the myth stories a 'Demon" rose above his nature and detached himself and became enlighten...

* yes, those are myths…

Originally posted by King Castle
Suffering in itself is not wrong nor right.

" it is not the actions that are neither right nor wrong it is the intend of the individual.

* how can you reconcile that statement from this:

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Suffering is wrong.

🙄

Originally posted by King Castle
now do you think Shakyamuni abandoning his wife and kids was "right" by your concept of morality and what do you think such actions are look on by a follower of shakyamuni?

right and wrongs are arbitrary terms based on individual's belief which are change from person to person to religion/philosphy and ethics which many think is interchangeable with morality...

* they are not interchangeable but very parallel most of the times…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Idolatry is prohibited in Christianity, but there are things that can be worshiped, and worshiping those things is also idolatry. That means that idolatry is in the heart.

* agreed…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think you misunderstand when a Buddhist prays before a statue of Buddha. You think it is idolatry, but it is not.

* you said way back then, that worshipping Buddha is also a no-no in Buddhism…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is true. So, by knowing the heart of the person, you can then know if what they are doing is idolatry. If you simply look at the actions, then how can you know without knowing the persons heart?

* because the actions are always the manifestations of the heart…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Let me help you:

Here is a starting place to read about Nichiren Buddhism. I am a Nichiren Buddhist.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/buddhismofnichirendaishonin.php

* care to tell me if Nichiren Buddhists do not keep the precepts I posted?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You need to know their heart before you can judge.

* true… but you can discern part of it when it manifests through actions…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I try not to impose my beliefs on to others. I speak as if they are true, because to me they are true.

* I also do not impose my beliefs to others… to clear this up, most of the time, I'm clarifying some confusing things in Christianity through the Bible…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, by not imposing beliefs onto others, I am copping out? You do not understand Buddhism.

* that's not the point… the copping-out part is when speak for yourself, and not within the boundaries of Buddhism… it's clear -> not to put Buddhism in bad light… the focus would be on you, not on Buddhism… the fail part is, you always front yourself as a Buddhist…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have been doing nothing but judging. You simply do not realize it.

* you are now judging me by saying that… take your own advice:

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You need to know their heart before you can judge.

🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You do not know anything about Nichiren Buddhism.

* answer the post… do Nichiren Buddhists keep the Noble Eightfold Path or not?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You want me to be like you?

* no, I want you to stop copping out and stop being a hypocrite…

Originally posted by peejayd
🙄

So, “you need to know their heart before you can judge” is something you do not agree with, or are you mocking that idea?

Originally posted by peejayd
* answer the post… do Nichiren Buddhists keep the Noble Eightfold Path or not?

I do not know all of the teachings of Nichiren, I am just a simple Buddhist. However, the Lotus Sutra said that the teaching before the Lotus Sutra were expedient, and were done away with. I believe the Eightfold Path is part of the older teachings that brought people up to the point to be able to understand the Lotus Sutra.

Originally posted by peejayd
* no, I want you to stop copping out and stop being a hypocrite…

I hope you realize that personal attaches are not allowed on the forum. Now, I know you are upset, and maybe even angry, but I want you to know that I do not blame you for the hate I see from your way of thinking. I believe you are as much of a victim as the rest of us.

Originally posted by peejayd
🙄

So, you think suffering is virtuous?

Originally posted by peejayd
* you said way back then, that worshipping Buddha is also a no-no in Buddhism…

I said that Buddha said not to worship him. Buddha was just a human, therefore you could argue that he was wrong.

Originally posted by peejayd
* because the actions are always the manifestations of the heart…

Not always. You could be wrong, and were it comes to what Buddhist do, you are wrong.

Originally posted by peejayd
* care to tell me if Nichiren Buddhists do not keep the precepts I posted?

Read for yourself.

Originally posted by peejayd
* true… but you can discern part of it when it manifests through actions…

But you can still be wrong.

Originally posted by peejayd
* I also do not impose my beliefs to others… to clear this up, most of the time, I'm clarifying some confusing things in Christianity through the Bible…

You do impose your interpretation of the bible on to others.

Originally posted by peejayd
* that's not the point… the copping-out part is when speak for yourself, and not within the boundaries of Buddhism… it's clear -> not to put Buddhism in bad light… the focus would be on you, not on Buddhism… the fail part is, you always front yourself as a Buddhist…

What are the “boundaries of Buddhism”?

So, if I am a Buddhist, I can’t have my own opinion?

Originally posted by peejayd
* [b]you are now judging me by saying that… take your own advice: [/B]

I have not been pointing to the Lotus Sutra and judging you. I have been telling you what I think. The difference is that you are acting like a judge. You are claiming to have authority from the bible. I’m trying to tell you that you are just a human, and what you think the bible means is just what you think the bible means.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, “you need to know their heart before you can judge” is something you do not agree with, or are you mocking that idea?

* no, I'm not… facepalm it's like I'm talking with a different person… you're still mr.shakyamunison, right? 🙄 my point is, by saying I'm judging all catholic people, you are the one judging me, I'm telling you to take your own advice… can you know my heart? can you read my mind? it clearly proves you don't even practice what you preach…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I do not know all of the teachings of Nichiren, I am just a simple Buddhist. However, the Lotus Sutra said that the teaching before the Lotus Sutra were expedient, and were done away with. I believe the Eightfold Path is part of the older teachings that brought people up to the point to be able to understand the Lotus Sutra.

* is that a yes or a no?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I hope you realize that personal attaches are not allowed on the forum. Now, I know you are upset, and maybe even angry, but I want you to know that I do not blame you for the hate I see from your way of thinking. I believe you are as much of a victim as the rest of us.

* you're wrong… I actually enjoy our conversation… ✅ I'm just telling you to stop being a hypocrite because I'm just being forthright and blunt… you're actually spewing contradictions many times I can remember and acting all noble all of a sudden… you're both telling me that "wrongs and rights" are not applicable to Buddhism yet you are saying that suffering is wrong and worshipping Buddha is a no-no in Buddhism…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you think suffering is virtuous?

* no, you tell me… if suffering is wrong, why can’t both of you accept that there are "wrongs and rights" in Buddhism…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I said that Buddha said not to worship him. Buddha was just a human, therefore you could argue that he was wrong.

* don't put this on me, junior… the burden rest on you… if you believe Buddha said people should not worship him, how come you refuse to accept that worshipping Buddha is wrong? if you cannot accept a simple logic like that, I must say, something's wrong with your comprehension…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not always. You could be wrong, and were it comes to what Buddhist do, you are wrong.

* maybe not always… but I could also be right…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You do impose your interpretation of the bible on to others.

* no, I don't… you do not understand the difference of imposing and me defending Christianity… and most of the time, I don't give my own interpretation because the Bible speaks for itself, it's kinda self-explanatory… just like idolatry, by which you are consistently defending the catholics' rituals… it's self-explanatory, even little kids can tell a person worshipping an idol or not… being able to know the heart of a person is not for us to be acquainted with because no person can read hearts and minds of another… but how can we tell? through actions! so doing an act of worship can only mean that the person is also worshipping in their hearts…

* what you are saying is actually "gray lines" and not absolute… provided that a person is worshipping a cow in his heart, and he does not do it in action, then it's stupid… if he is worshipping a cow in his heart, then it's natural for it to be manifested in his actions…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What are the “boundaries of Buddhism”?

So, if I am a Buddhist, I can’t have my own opinion?

* double-standards… you are actually imposing your own opinion about morality and you don't even notice it… you attack Christianity by your "sarcasm" 🙄 then go all noble and stuff, spew Buddhist beliefs, say you're a Buddhist and finally claiming it all as only your personal belief… be truthful, mr.shakyamunison… be frank, stop being biased and again, stop being a hypocrite…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have not been pointing to the Lotus Sutra and judging you. I have been telling you what I think. The difference is that you are acting like a judge.

* by saying I was judging all catholic people, you are acting like a judge as well… don't you get it? facepalm

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are claiming to have authority from the bible.

* no… I'm telling all Christians (esp. catholics) that the words of God in the Bible is the authority and basis of our faith… why? because most of the catholic rituals and doctrines are not in accordance with the Bible…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I’m trying to tell you that you are just a human, and what you think the bible means is just what you think the bible means.

* I am human, and I am a Christian… and what the Bible means is what every Christian should do… in like manner, the teachings of Buddha is what every Buddhist should keep…. because what you think the teachings of Buddha means is not just what you think the teachings of Buddha means… 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* no, I'm not… facepalm it's like I'm talking with a different person… you're still mr.shakyamunison, right? 🙄 my point is, by saying I'm judging all catholic people, [b]you are the one judging me, I'm telling you to take your own advice… can you know my heart? can you read my mind? it clearly proves you don't even practice what you preach…[/B]

No I am not, and here is why. At no point am I saying you are not a Christian because you believe a certain way. However, you are saying that Catholics are not Christian because of how they believe. There is no consequence in my opinion about your belief: I have not said you are an evil person, but calling a Catholic not a Christian is the same thing as saying they are evil. You are attaching consequences to your opinion, and that is what makes it judging.

Originally posted by peejayd
* is that a yes or a no?

Maybe!

Originally posted by peejayd
* you're wrong… I actually enjoy our conversation… ✅ I'm just telling you to stop being a hypocrite because I'm just being forthright and blunt… you're actually spewing contradictions many times I can remember and acting all noble all of a sudden… you're both telling me that "wrongs and rights" are not applicable to Buddhism yet you are saying that suffering is wrong and worshipping Buddha is a no-no in Buddhism…

Your are not talking about my beliefs, but you are talking about me. Hypocrite is describing a person and not a belief. Please avoid personal attaches, and limit attaches to my beliefs and or opinions.

Originally posted by peejayd
* no, [b]you tell me… if suffering is wrong, why can’t both of you accept that there are "wrongs and rights" in Buddhism…[/B]

Everything has a good path and an evil path associated with it. There is no absolute write and wrong. Good and evil are relative, and not absolute.

Originally posted by peejayd
* don't put this on me, junior… the burden rest on you… if you believe Buddha said people should not worship him, how come you refuse to accept that worshipping Buddha is wrong? if you cannot accept a simple logic like that, I must say, something's wrong with your comprehension…

Worshipping Buddha as a god is not very important. Worshiping any god is not important. Worshipping Buddha maybe right for that person.

Originally posted by peejayd
* no, I don't… you do not understand the difference of imposing and me defending Christianity… and most of the time, I don't give my own interpretation because the Bible speaks for itself, it's kinda self-explanatory… just like idolatry, by which you are consistently defending the catholics' rituals… it's self-explanatory, even little kids can tell a person worshipping an idol or not… being able to know the heart of a person is not for us to be acquainted with because no person can read hearts and minds of another… but how can we tell? through actions! so doing an act of worship can only mean that the person is also worshipping in their hearts…

The bible cannot speak for itself. If that was true then there would only be one denomination of Christians.

I think you have misunderstood what Catholics do, so your argument has no sway. It is better to help a person, then to judge them. See above.

Originally posted by peejayd
* what you are saying is actually "gray lines" and not absolute… provided that a person is worshipping a cow in his heart, and he does not do it in action, then it's stupid… if he is worshipping a cow in his heart, then it's natural for it to be manifested in his actions…

But if a person is lighting candles for a cow, how do you know it isn’t for some other reason then worship?

Originally posted by peejayd
* double-standards… you are actually imposing your own opinion about morality and you don't even notice it… you attack Christianity by your "sarcasm" 🙄 then go all noble and stuff, spew Buddhist beliefs, say you're a Buddhist and finally claiming it all as only your personal belief… be truthful, mr.shakyamunison… be frank, stop being biased and again, stop being a hypocrite…

Again, there is no consequences for my opinion. I have not taken anything away from you. You may go on with no punishment. That means I am not judging you; I am simply giving you my opinion.

Originally posted by peejayd
* by saying I was judging all catholic people, you are acting like a judge as well… don't you get it? facepalm

But you said Catholics are not Christian. You have taken away the one thing that Catholics love the most: Jesus.

Originally posted by peejayd
* no… I'm telling all Christians (esp. catholics) that the words of God in the Bible is the authority and basis of our faith… why? because most of the catholic rituals and doctrines are not in accordance with the Bible…

There are a lot more Christians that would disagree with you then agree. Of course, unless you strip them of their right to be Christian.

Originally posted by peejayd
* I am human, and I am a Christian… and what the Bible means is what every Christian should do… in like manner, the teachings of Buddha is what every Buddhist should keep…. because what you think the teachings of Buddha means is not just what you think the teachings of Buddha means… 😉

There are too many types of Buddhist for that to be true. Each type of Buddhist is like a spoke on a wheel. They all seem different, but they all come together in the center. This is also true of Christians. You have Christians like yourself, Catholic who believe differently from you, and on the other side, there are Christians like Mormons. They are all different, but have one thing in common; the teachings of Jesus. Christianity is not really that different from Buddhism, in that respect.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No I am not, and here is why. At no point am I saying you are not a Christian because you believe a certain way. However, you are saying that Catholics are not Christian because of how they believe.

* all Christian denominations (including catholics) has the Bible as its basis of faith, except perhaps Mormons (because I know they recognize the "book of Mormons" as their Bible)… considering that simple fact, we can now conclude that when the words of God in the Bible prohibits idolatry, then all Christian denominations should also implement that commandment…

"Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples,"
John 8:31

true disciples or followers of Jesus adhere to His words…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no consequence in my opinion about your belief: I have not said you are an evil person, but calling a Catholic not a Christian is the same thing as saying they are evil.

* that's your "evil" interpretation… 😛 I did not say catholic people are evil… no, for the nth time, please do not put words in my mouth… i was only saying that true Christians should follow the teachings of Jesus… there is really a consequence in that passage, logically… A. true disciples of Jesus abide by His words… which reasonably makes another group -> B. those who are not true disciples of Jesus do not adhere to His words… it's simple…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are attaching consequences to your opinion, and that is what makes it judging.

* okay, if that makes you comfortable, then I'm judging them… but am I judging them on my own standards? no… I'm judging them within the boundaries of Christian doctrine, which in fact is based on the same source we both believe in…

* I accept that catholicism is included in Christian denomination in society, I really do… but in the Bible, they are not… why? because of the accounts above… now, am I judging them? you may consider it as judging, but is that a bad thing? the consequences attached was not even from me but from the same source we both believe…

* in Christianity, are we allowed to judge? am I allowed to judge?

"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?"
I Corinthians 5:12

* if we both consider including catholics in Christian denomination, then I am allowed to judge them according to the Bible… another proof:

"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."
John 7:24

judging people who also believe in the same source of my belief is an appropriate judgment… did I call them evil? no, I'm just telling them what they're doing is wrong… that is some form of enlightenment for them, and it's a win-win situation if they adhere…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Maybe!

* you really do love gray lines! 😛

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your are not talking about my beliefs, but you are talking about me. Hypocrite is describing a person and not a belief. Please avoid personal attaches, and limit attaches to my beliefs and or opinions.

* because that's what you're doing and I'm just being straight-forward… but okay, I'll try to avoid that…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Everything has a good path and an evil path associated with it. There is no absolute write and wrong. Good and evil are relative, and not absolute.

* I did not say that the "rights" and "wrongs" I'm arguing about is absolute…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Worshipping Buddha as a god is not very important. Worshiping any god is not important. Worshipping Buddha maybe right for that person.

* then why did you say that worshipping Buddhism is a no-no in Buddhism… please explain…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The bible cannot speak for itself. If that was true then there would only be one denomination of Christians.

* the Bible can speak for itself… the Christian denominations vary because there are many religious leaders who do not know how to "rightly divide the word of truth"… they lack spiritual discernment, they are ignorant of the Scriptures and in the end, they tend to twist the Scriptures for their own benefits, esp. because of monetary interests:

"Speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures."
II Peter 3:16

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think you have misunderstood what Catholics do, so your argument has no sway. It is better to help a person, then to judge them. See above.

* I do not misunderstand catholicism… because I was a former catholic member… I practically lived almost two decades of my life in catholicism… I have already provided you references for you to realize that the very catholic doctrine itself promotes idolatry… ask them? of course they'll disagree, but try and review their doctrines and see for yourself…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But if a person is lighting candles for a cow, how do you know it isn’t for some other reason then worship?

* rational beings like humans can somehow discern if a person is worshipping some thing or not… you'll know it by yourself… and that's not accusing… it's not a crime of naming something that is pretty obvious…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you said Catholics are not Christian. You have taken away the one thing that Catholics love the most: Jesus.

* no! 😱 heck, no… you are looking at it in a weird perspective… in my vision, me saying these things to them means spiritual concern… I'm actually promoting Jesus' words to them… if they love Jesus, they will adhere to His words, and one of His words are laws which prohibit idolatry… you, now, look around and tell me you do not see catholics kneeling and praying in front of the statue of Mary or of the apostles, the cross, and even statue of Jesus… the "divine nature" of God should not be treated like that:

"Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising."
Acts 17:29

* they should, or we should all go back to what was Jesus had preached… to how to worship God… do we need graven images? pictures? sculptures? statues? symbols? read:

"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

*worshipping in spirit does not require images and stuff…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There are a lot more Christians that would disagree with you then agree. Of course, unless you strip them of their right to be Christian.

* that's what you think…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
They are all different, but have one thing in common; the teachings of Jesus. Christianity is not really that different from Buddhism, in that respect.

* the very reason why I say what I say is because Christians really should have the teachings of Jesus in unity… 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* all Christian denominations (including catholics) has the Bible as its basis of faith, except perhaps Mormons (because I know they recognize the "book of Mormons" as their Bible)… considering that simple fact, we can now conclude that when the words of God in the Bible prohibits idolatry, then all Christian denominations should also implement that commandment…

However, that seems to not be the case. Therefore, I conclude that your interpretation of idolatry is not the same as, for say, Catholics.

Originally posted by peejayd
* that's your "evil" interpretation… 😛 I did not say catholic people are evil… [b]no, for the nth time, please do not put words in my mouth… i was only saying that true Christians should follow the teachings of Jesus… there is really a consequence in that passage, logically… A. true disciples of Jesus abide by His words… which reasonably makes another group -> B. those who are not true disciples of Jesus do not adhere to His words… it's simple…[/B]

Sense Catholics are Christian and follow the teachings of Jesus, I must conclude there is more then one interpretation of the teachings of Jesus.

Originally posted by peejayd
* okay, if that makes you comfortable, then I'm judging them… but am I judging them on my own standards? no… I'm judging them within the boundaries of Christian doctrine, which in fact is based on the same source we both believe in…

Interpretation makes all the difference.

Originally posted by peejayd
* I accept that catholicism is included in Christian denomination in society, I really do… but in the Bible, they are not… why? because of the accounts above… now, am I judging them? you may consider it as judging, but is that a bad thing? the consequences attached was not even from me but from the same source we both believe…

You have already told me that nether Catholic or Christian is found in the bible. So, to say “but in the Bible, they are not” is simply your interpretation of something in the bible that Catholics have interrelated differently.

Originally posted by peejayd
* in Christianity, are we allowed to judge? am I allowed to judge?

But are you qualified?

Why are you now embracing the idea of judging, when before, you were adamant that you were not judging?

Originally posted by peejayd
* if we both consider including catholics in Christian denomination, then I am allowed to judge them according to the Bible… another proof:

judging people who also believe in the same source of my belief is an appropriate judgment… did I call them evil? no, I'm just telling them what they're doing is wrong… that is some form of enlightenment for them, and it's a win-win situation if they adhere…

That is true. It is always best to convince your brother of his wrong then judge him. Judging doesn’t leave room for change.

Originally posted by peejayd
* then why did you say that worshipping Buddhism is a no-no in Buddhism… please explain…

I have read part of the Sutra were Buddha tells people not to worship him (I don’t remember the Sutra name). However, I have not read all the teachings of Buddha. I am a simple Buddhist. I am not a monk, priest, teacher or wise man. I am not qualified to judge those who believe that Buddha is divine. If I met one of these people, I would ask them why. I would tell them my opinion, but there is nothing else to do.

Originally posted by peejayd
* the Bible can speak for itself… the Christian denominations vary because there are many religious leaders who do not know how to "rightly divide the word of truth"… they lack spiritual discernment, they are ignorant of the Scriptures and in the end, they tend to twist the Scriptures for their own benefits, esp. because of monetary interests:

There is no such thing as "rightly divide the word of truth”. That is delusion. Again you are calling your brother ignorant, and basing that on is an interpretation of the bible that is common to your denomination. I’m sure they would say that you twist the scripture for your own benefit.

Originally posted by peejayd
* I do not misunderstand catholicism… because I was a former catholic member… I practically lived almost two decades of my life in catholicism… I have already provided you references for you to realize that the very catholic doctrine itself promotes idolatry… ask them? of course they'll disagree, but try and review their doctrines and see for yourself…

The “you” in my post was not a personal you. Sorry I did not make that clear. You have adopted a religious view that interprets the bible differently then Catholics, and then judges them accordantly.

Originally posted by peejayd
* rational beings like humans can somehow discern if a person is worshipping some thing or not… you'll know it by yourself… and that's not accusing… it's not a crime of naming something that is pretty obvious…

Humans are too self-centered to really see anyone else. That means if we see someone doing something, we always compare it to ourselves.

Originally posted by peejayd
* no! 😱 heck, no… you are looking at it in a weird perspective… in my vision, me saying these things to them means spiritual concern… I'm actually promoting Jesus' words to them… if they love Jesus, they will adhere to His words, and one of His words are laws which prohibit idolatry… you, now, look around and tell me you do not see catholics kneeling and praying in front of the statue of Mary or of the apostles, the cross, and even statue of Jesus… the "divine nature" of God should not be treated like that:

I don’t think they are going to see it that way.

Originally posted by peejayd
* they should, or we should all go back to what was Jesus had preached… to how to worship God… do we need graven images? pictures? sculptures? statues? symbols? read:

Then all we need is just the words of Jesus. However, that is not how humans think. We are too distracted in everyday life. We need a reminder, and images are the best reminder, rather that be a statue, symbol, picture, or whatever.

Originally posted by peejayd
*worshipping in spirit does not require images and stuff…

But most people find keeping that mind set to be difficult. That is also true with Buddhism.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, that seems to not be the case. Therefore, I conclude that your interpretation of idolatry is not the same as, for say, Catholics.

* you can put it that way… or you can reread the catholic doctrines yourself and see if they are really promoting idolatry or not…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sense Catholics are Christian and follow the teachings of Jesus, I must conclude there is more then one interpretation of the teachings of Jesus.

* there are many interpretations of the teachings in the Bible… that's also one of the many reasons why there are many Christian denimonations in the globe…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Interpretation makes all the difference.

* I concur…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have already told me that nether Catholic or Christian is found in the bible. So, to say “but in the Bible, they are not” is simply your interpretation of something in the bible that Catholics have interrelated differently.

* nope… I said the word "catholic" is not found in the Bible, but the word "Christian" is in it… (Acts 26:28, II Peter 4:16), in fact, the disciples or followers of Christ are called "Christians" (Acts 11:26)… Christianos in Greek (G5546), means a follower of Christ… in our society, all catholics are Christians just like what you believe, but not all Christians are catholics… it's not safe to interchange those two… but in the Bible, Christians are followers of Christ… now, in that category, it does not matter if I'm a catholic or not, but so long as I do not obey the teachings of Christ, I am not a Christian… but then again, catholic or not, if I obey Christ, I am a Christian… that's people I'm talking about… now, when it comes to the doctrine, catholicism is way different from Christianity… there are many doctrines in catholicsim which is not in accordance with the Christian doctrine in the Bible… hope you understand my point…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But are you qualified?

* you just said the catholics are also Christians, which makes me qualified to judge them according to the Bible… if the catholics are Muslims or Buddhists, I'm not mainly because there is no point of argument due to different source of basis…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why are you now embracing the idea of judging, when before, you were adamant that you were not judging?

* I was adamant in saying I was judging you… and I believe I apologized for that…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is true. It is always best to convince your brother of his wrong then judge him. Judging doesn’t leave room for change.

* there's actually a very very thin line between "telling other people they're wrong" and "judging them"… many people can mistakenly interchange those two…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have read part of the Sutra were Buddha tells people not to worship him (I don’t remember the Sutra name). However, I have not read all the teachings of Buddha. I am a simple Buddhist. I am not a monk, priest, teacher or wise man. I am not qualified to judge those who believe that Buddha is divine. If I met one of these people, I would ask them why. I would tell them my opinion, but there is nothing else to do.

* don't you think that the fact that you personally read yourself that Buddha tells people not to worship him, is sufficient enough for you realize and accept that worshipping Buddha is wrong? if you have not read all teachings of Buddha, have you ever researched or asked tenured Buddhist if there's a Buddhist doctrine that conflicts with what you've read? because, if not, then you can safely say that believing Buddha should not be worshipped is right and believing Buddha should be worshipped is wrong…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no such thing as "rightly divide the word of truth”. That is delusion.

* in the Bible, in Christian era, there is… this is actually an advice from St. Paul to St. Timothy:

"Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
II Timothy 2:14-15

why did St. Paul said this? because there are good workers and evil workers who preaches the word of God in different ways:

"Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel;
The former proclaim Christ out of partisanship, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment."
Philippians 1:15-17

* and yes, interpretation makes all the difference…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Again you are calling your brother ignorant, and basing that on is an interpretation of the bible that is common to your denomination. I’m sure they would say that you twist the scripture for your own benefit.

* in that case, I plead for them to lay down their cards to the addressees, albeit, their official doctrine and prove me wrong…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Humans are too self-centered to really see anyone else. That means if we see someone doing something, we always compare it to ourselves.

* maybe… but in this case, it's not about me or them… it's about the doctrine…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don’t think they are going to see it that way.

* yes…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then all we need is just the words of Jesus.

* yes…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, that is not how humans think. We are too distracted in everyday life. We need a reminder, and images are the best reminder, rather that be a statue, symbol, picture, or whatever.

* that's the main problem…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But most people find keeping that mind set to be difficult. That is also true with Buddhism.

* yes… 🙂

Originally posted by peejayd
* you can put it that way… or you can reread the catholic doctrines yourself and see if they are really promoting idolatry or not…

To me, idolatry is not important. What is important is how we treat each other.

Originally posted by peejayd
* nope… I said the word "catholic" is not found in the Bible, but the word "Christian" is in it… (Acts 26:28, II Peter 4:16), in fact, the disciples or followers of Christ are called "Christians" (Acts 11:26)… Christianos in Greek (G5546), means a follower of Christ… in our society, all catholics are Christians just like what you believe, but [b]not all Christians are catholics… it's not safe to interchange those two… but in the Bible, Christians are followers of Christ… now, in that category, it does not matter if I'm a catholic or not, but so long as I do not obey the teachings of Christ, I am not a Christian… but then again, catholic or not, if I obey Christ, I am a Christian… that's people I'm talking about… now, when it comes to the doctrine, catholicism is way different from Christianity… there are many doctrines in catholicsim which is not in accordance with the Christian doctrine in the Bible… hope you understand my point…[/B]

…and Catholics are also followers of Jesus, even though they would not agree with you on everything.

Originally posted by peejayd
* you just said the catholics are also Christians, which makes me qualified to judge them according to the Bible… if the catholics are Muslims or Buddhists, I'm not mainly because there is no point of argument due to different source of basis…

Just because I am a Buddhist does not mean I can judge my brother.

Originally posted by peejayd
* there's actually a very very thin line between "telling other people they're wrong" and "judging them"… many people can mistakenly interchange those two…

I’m glad you realize that.

Originally posted by peejayd
* don't you think that the fact that you personally read yourself that Buddha tells people not to worship him, is sufficient enough for you realize and accept that worshipping Buddha is wrong? if you have not read all teachings of Buddha, have you ever researched or asked tenured Buddhist if there's a Buddhist doctrine that conflicts with what you've read? because, if not, then you can safely say that believing Buddha should not be worshipped is right and believing Buddha should be worshipped is wrong…

What I read applies to me alone. For me, worshiping Buddha as a god would be wrong, but that is based on my understanding at this time. If I saw someone who was doing something that would be wrong for me, I would try to help my brother, but I would not judge him. For example, in my form of Buddhism, we do not believe in ghosts. However, I was talking to fellow Buddhists who was telling me about their cat that had died. They spoke about their cat’s ghost visiting them. It would have been wrong for me to judge them for believing is something that is delusion. This belief in ghosts was comforting to them. If it was causing suffering then I would have reminded them that ghost do not exist.

Originally posted by peejayd
* in that case, I plead for them to lay down their cards to the addressees, albeit, their official doctrine and prove me wrong…

Or you could simply let them be without making any judgment. I know that is easier said then done.

Originally posted by peejayd
* maybe… but in this case, it's not about me or them… it's about the doctrine…

You are the doctrine, and the doctrine is you.

Originally posted by peejayd
* that's the main problem…

There we agree.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
To me, idolatry is not important. What is important is how we treat each other.

* why argue about idolatry then? facepalm

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
…and Catholics are also followers of Jesus, even though they would not agree with you on everything.

* in some other ways, they are, I believe so… but in worshipping graven images, they fail very terribly…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just because I am a Buddhist does not mean I can judge my brother.

* oh, yes you can… so long as you don't cause him to suffer… wink

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What I read applies to me alone.

* why? no other Buddhist read what you read? isn't Buddha's teachings universal on all Buddhists?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
For me, worshiping Buddha as a god would be wrong, but that is based on my understanding at this time. If I saw someone who was doing something that would be wrong for me, I would try to help my brother, but I would not judge him. For example, in my form of Buddhism, we do not believe in ghosts. However, I was talking to fellow Buddhists who was telling me about their cat that had died. They spoke about their cat’s ghost visiting them. It would have been wrong for me to judge them for believing is something that is delusion. This belief in ghosts was comforting to them. If it was causing suffering then I would have reminded them that ghost do not exist.

* I remember you saying that believing in a "supreme being" or "god" is a delusion… are you judging me before? or is that part of your "sarcasm"? 🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Or you could simply let them be without making any judgment. I know that is easier said then done.

* Christian doctrine never tolerates wrong doings… and I believe, Buddhism never tolerates wrong doings also… not judging them - is okay… but letting them be? nope… it is our responsible to tell our brothers what they're doing is wrong… that's what you call "love" because you have "concern" for them…

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are the doctrine, and the doctrine is you.

* you judging me? 🙄 I did not create the doctrine I say, I did not even need to interpret the doctrine I say… it's self-explanatory, example:

"And God spoke all these words, saying,
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
But showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments."
Exodus 20:1-6

* this commandment is as basic as it is popular… I don't have to interpret it… catholics might be obeying other commandments of God in the Bible but they terribly fail in this category… we are also not allowed to tolerate wrong doings:

"If any one sins in that he hears a public adjuration to testify and though he is a witness, whether he has seen or come to know the matter, yet does not speak, he shall bear his iniquity."
Leviticus 5:1

"Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."
James 4:17

* hope you understand my point…