Originally posted by OneDumbG0
There would be no argument. Even retconned Cube Being Beyonder created his own universe. And depending how Spiderman and the Secret Wars figures into all the retcons, all of Beyonder's retcons... were retconned back.
And obviously, Hulk isn't on that level no matter what bullshit Beyonder might be spewing.
Anger is not infinite. Hulk is not infinite.
Originally posted by CosmicCometBeyonder more or less noted that Hulk has an infinite well of power to draw from -- which is likely true (I'm still waiting for Marvel to introduce a 'Strength-Force' concept.) That, however, doesn't mean he can actually utilize the entirety of said energies.
And obviously, Hulk isn't on that level no matter what bullshit Beyonder might be spewing.Anger is not infinite. Hulk is not infinite.
Firestorm has much the same problem. He has an infinite power source to draw from, but he has to consciously pick and choose how much power he uses at any given time. Otherwise he could keep becoming increasingly more powerful until he burnt himself out (for lack of better words.)
Old school, savage Hulk made classic Juggy look like a weak feeb in their battle. Taking that into account, WBH could certainly do the same -- and in a much easier fashion, me thinks. However, the only thing that would prevent Hulk from tooling Juggy again is that pesky force-field. IF that is up, then Hulk's attacks would be ineffectual (as would Juggy's.) So yeah, without a force-field Hulk dominates. With a force-field they stalemate.
-Hulk- "Hulk is really tired of you now, Juggernaut" - said as he was spinning Juggy. ...And I didn't mean weak in the literal sense, I meant in comparison he looked pathetic.
So, you think Hulk throwing a 900lb man is some kind of dynamic/overpowering strength feat? Cause I'm pretty sure Cain was unharmed and still able to fight.
So long story short, nobody won that fight, although Juggernaut did come very close to victory whereas the same can't be said about the Hulk. He was never actually winning. He connected a major combo, but it's useless if it doesn't hurt the Juggernaut. It's a stalemate at best, and even that's only because Xavier stopped that fight.
That's what I made out of that fight.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusRead your post. Read what you just asked me to do. Read the analogy you just tried to make.
There was a scan of an article by one of Marvel's guys basically saying Jugz can increase his strength by drawing on more power from his Patron when he needs too. I think it was in the Respect Juggernaut thread.
There are two:
http://img808.imageshack.us/i/juggyhulk.jpg/
http://img833.imageshack.us/i/greenmailpotentialthein.jpg/
Juggernaut has never amped himself to the point where a footstep threatens to break a continent apart. So no.
Lastly, I'd like to say that I was pissed at Marvel opting for a "Hulk vs Wolverine" short instead of a "Hulk vs Juggernaut" one. That would have been an excellent fight to watch. They only used Wolverine to sell more copies (which is kinda like a company's primary aim 🙁 )
Originally posted by CosmicCometI understand that Beyonder's statement isn't to be taken literally. But his statement carries as much weight as statements made about Juggernaut.
And obviously, Hulk isn't on that level no matter what bullshit Beyonder might be spewing.Anger is not infinite. Hulk is not infinite.
And when you consider all things equally, you have to face the facts that WBH's topped Juggernaut in the strength department and Savage Hulk's already performed infinite feats of strength. /shrug
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666Theoretically. But it's more likely Juggernaut gets BFRed or KTFO before that happens. Few amp faster than Hulk does.
But being able to draw "limitless power" from Cyttorak himself should allow him to at least match The Hulk.
[B]Beyonder more or less noted that Hulk has an infinite well of power to draw from -- which is likely true
Didn't the Beyonder also say that Rachel Summers Phoenix was second only to him in power?! The Pre Retconned Re Retconned De retconned (I can't keep up) Beyonder said and did a lot of things that turned out not to be true.
Or were true, but now untrue, but may some day turn out again to be true, unless proven half true.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666What Juggy did to Hulk, or how close he may have come to winning before Hulk got angry is moot.
So long story short, nobody won that fight, although Juggernaut did come very close to victory whereas the same can't be said about the Hulk. He was never actually winning. He connected a major combo, but it's useless if it doesn't hurt the Juggernaut. It's a stalemate at best, and even that's only because Xavier stopped that fight.
And I don't know about you, but imo if old school savage Hulk was capable of overpowering Juggy and treating him in an extremely casual manner, then WBH would have a very easy time doing the same (sans force-fields, of course.)
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Theoretically. But it's more likely Juggernaut gets BFRed or KTFO before that happens. Few amp faster than Hulk does.
^ Then Juggs gets KTFO or put into an inescapable hold.
Bishop knocked Juggernaut unconscious after Onslaught sent him flying from Canada. Nimrod knocked him unconscious with sonic attacks to his eardrums. It's been done. Juggernaut's "invincibility" is about as potent as his "unstoppability." And both have been compromised. WBH would compromise both something fierce.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666Captain Universe and Skaar. 😖hifty:
BFR is not allowed in this fight. As for knocking Juggy out, honestly I haven't seen anyone beat the Juggernaut unconscious. Can you please explain how Hulk would be able to KO him?
...Thor also beat the crap out of him, after negating his FF.
Originally posted by CosmicCometYou're talking about Professor Hulk? Because that basically happened to him. You'll have to be more specific and use less pronouns...
He won't be able to KO him.A punch is going to knock him out but being stripped down to mere bones does nothing? Right.
... and then realize that this is World Breaker Hulk.
Originally posted by Galan007
What Juggy did to Hulk, or how close he may have come to winning before Hulk got angry is moot.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666The issue itself was quite clear that Juggy only had the advantage until Hulk became angry. When Hulk became angered he was able to: a.) break the position of dominance Juggy had over him, and b.) grab Juggy by the helmet and casually whip him around like the Planters peanut mascot twirls his cane. If Juggy would have still had the strength edge during that scene, then Hulk wouldn't have been able to preform either of those tasks.
Is it? I mean, let's say they were to keep on fighting, wouldn't it be possible for Juggernaut to land some textbook shots, wouldn't he once again have him in a position where he could kill him? Whereas -apparently- it's impossible for the Hulk to do the same?
Or are you of the opinion that Hulk would completely no sell his attacks? In which case, I'd like you to give me some supporting evidence.
Furthermore, WBH is far, FAR superior to savage Hulk. Thus one could easily surmise that WBH would also be far, FAR superior to classic Juggy by proxy.
Originally posted by Galan007
The issue itself was quite clear that Juggy only had the advantage until Hulk became angry. When Hulk became angered he was able to: a.) break the position of dominance Juggy had over him, and b.) grab Juggy by the helmet and casually whip him around like the Planters peanut mascot twirls his cane. If Juggy would have still had the strength edge during that scene, then Hulk wouldn't have been able to preform either of those tasks.Furthermore, WBH is far, FAR superior to savage Hulk. Thus one could easily surmise that WBH would also be far, FAR superior to classic Juggy by proxy.
So what primary emotion was running through Hulk before that scene in your opinion?
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/IH%20172/TheIncredibleHulkv2-172-16.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/IH%20172/TheIncredibleHulkv2-172-17.jpg
What was he feeling at that moment, if not anger? Happiness perhaps?
The scene where Hulk grabs Cain clearly meant to indicate that the Hulk was growing stronger -even said as much- I however don't think he'd necessarily have to be stronger than Cain to accomplish what he did.
Once more, twirling an opponent mea.....f*ck it.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Then Juggs gets KTFO or put into an inescapable hold.Bishop knocked Juggernaut unconscious after Onslaught sent him flying from Canada. Nimrod knocked him unconscious with sonic attacks to his eardrums. It's been done. Juggernaut's "invincibility" is about as potent as his "unstoppability." And both have been compromised. WBH would compromise both something fierce.
Wasn't is specifically stated in Bishop's case that normally an attack like that wouldn't even budge The Juggernaut? I recall something along those lines. And I don't recall him getting knocked out. He was simply incapacitated. Also, shouldn't an electric shock work differently than a punch?
I'm not aware of the other incident. Can you tell me the issue when this happened?
Captain Universe and Skaar.
The issue itself was quite clear that Juggy only had the advantage until Hulk became angry. When Hulk became angered he was able to: a.) break the position of dominance Juggy had over him, and b.) grab Juggy by the helmet and casually whip him around like the Planters peanut mascot twirls his cane. If Juggy would have still had the strength edge during that scene, then Hulk wouldn't have been able to preform either of those tasks.
Furthermore, WBH is far, FAR superior to savage Hulk. Thus one could easily surmise that WBH would also be far, FAR superior to classic Juggy by proxy.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666No. That skull-crushing hold is far from an inescapable hold. I'm talking about a hammerlock for instance. WBH's strength is also variable. And far more higher-end at both beginning and at peak levels (at least the peak ones we've seen so far) than we've seen Juggernaut manage.
So can't Juggernaut break the hold? He did break his skull-crushing hold in WWH, and since his strength is also variable, he should be able to push him aside.Wasn't is specifically stated in Bishop's case that normally an attack like that wouldn't even budge The Juggernaut? I recall something along those lines. And I don't recall him getting knocked out. He was simply incapacitated. Also, shouldn't an electric shock work differently than a punch?
I remember when Xavier noted that Bishop couldn't take Juggernaut down at the peak of his power after Juggernaut woke up. And Juggernaut was KTFO. Bishop absorbs all types of energy and usually converts it into concussive blasts.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusFrustration, probably. Curiousity when he was wondering where Juggernaut was. Not rage.
So what primary emotion was running through Hulk before that scene in your opinion?http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/IH%20172/TheIncredibleHulkv2-172-16.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/IH%20172/TheIncredibleHulkv2-172-17.jpgWhat was he feeling at that moment, if not anger? Happiness perhaps?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. That skull-crushing hold is far from an inescapable hold. I'm talking about a hammerlock for instance. WBH's strength is also variable. And far more higher-end at both beginning and at peak levels (at least the peak ones we've seen so far) than we've seen Juggernaut manage.
I remember when Xavier noted that Bishop couldn't take Juggernaut down at the peak of his power. And Juggernaut was KTFO. Bishop absorbs all types of energy and usually converts it into concussive blasts.
EDIT: Okay, I checked Uncanny X-Men 322. It was Beast who noted that, and Juggy wasn't out. He just fell down to his knees.
