Originally posted by zopzopexactly...your saying he is a destroyer when in fact he is not...he wants to rule...he is just making an exception here...he says plan as day "once i wished to rule your world, as i ruled countless before it." He not a destroyer because of this one instance.Reading comprehension is your friend. He calls himself a destroyer and goes on to say he doesn't want to conquer the Earth, he wants to consume it.
Originally posted by zopzopDormammu, through circumstances unknown, shackled Zom. Dormammu never imprisoned him or banished him, that was all Eternity.
What happened 20-30 years after Umar was first introduced to comics is meaningless in this discussion. AT THE TIME OF HER FIRST APPEARANCE, it was said by both Strange and the Ancient One that she was at least Dormammu's peer, at least. Ancient One even said that she's has Dormammu's power and it grows still.
You have characters words to go by...no panel proof at all...and we have dormammu shackling zom that happen actually happened...just cuz u dont know how it happened doesnt mean it didnt...doesnt say dormammu was help by anyone so why would you assume otherwise...works in dormammu favor no matter what what u look at it...umar has gone again dormammu like i said and cant win...so your hyperbole comments dont stand to well here
Originally posted by bbrem123
exactly...your saying he is a destroyer when in fact he is not...he wants to rule...he is just making an exception here...he says plan as day "once i wished to rule your world, as i ruled countless before it." He not a destroyer because of this one instance.
If he isn't a destroyer then why did he created a voodoo doll of Earth and threaten to destroy it? He even calls himself "The Destroyer" in the scan and goes on to say he wants to consume the Earth.
Funny part of that story is he manifests fully on Earth and nothing is busted because of it. He can't even deal with a POWERLESS Fantastic Four (Sue, Reed, and Ben drank cursed tea and were rendered powerless by Scratch).
Then Strange shows up, teleports him Gorath (against his will by the way) to Stonehenge and beats him before Diablo and crew show up to help him. Diablo was even surprised saying he'd thought they'd make it there at mid fight.
Even worse, one of the Salem Seven even caused vertigo in Gorath and caused him to lose balance and collapse. He's a clown dude.
Originally posted by bbrem123
You have characters words to go by...no panel proof at all...and we have dormammu shackling zom that happen actually happened...just cuz u dont know how it happened doesnt mean it didnt...doesnt say dormammu was help by anyone so why would you assume otherwise...works in dormammu favor no matter what what u look at it...umar has gone again dormammu like i said and cant win...so your hyperbole comments dont stand to well here
Was it hyperbole when AO, in a panic, banished Clea and was attempting to banish Strange rather than have them die at Umar's hand?
Was it hyperbole when AO ordered Strange to release Zom because neither of them could deal with Umar?
Was it hyperbole when Clea said no power in the Dark Dimension could banish the Mindless Ones now that Dormammu was dead (they were rampaging uncontrollably), then Umar shows up and banished them?
Originally posted by zopzop
If he isn't a destroyer then why did he created a voodoo doll of Earth and threaten to destroy it? He even calls himself "The Destroyer" in the scan and goes on to say he wants to consume the Earth.Funny part of that story is he manifests fully on Earth and nothing is busted because of it. He can't even deal with a POWERLESS Fantastic Four (Sue, Reed, and Ben drank cursed tea and were rendered powerless by Scratch).
Then Strange shows up, teleports him Gorath (against his will by the way) to Stonehenge and beats him before Diablo and crew show up to help him. Diablo was even surprised saying he'd thought they'd make it there at mid fight.
Even worse, one of the Salem Seven even caused vertigo in Gorath and caused him to lose balance and collapse. He's a clown dude.
like i said read the scan...he says it plan as day why he want to destroy earth
just like zom was all power when he was a henchman for CK...
Originally posted by zopzop
Was it hyperbole when AO, in a panic, banished Clea and was attempting to banish Strange rather than have them die at Umar's hand?Was it hyperbole when AO ordered Strange to release Zom because neither of them could deal with Umar?
Was it hyperbole when Clea said no power in the Dark Dimension could banish the Mindless Ones now that Dormammu was dead (they were rampaging uncontrollably), then Umar shows up and banished them?
still doesnt make her at dormammu;s level so i dont get your point?...and obviously clea didnt know wtf she was talking about....still means nothing
all your saying is she was beyond AO and strange...
Originally posted by bbrem123
still doesnt make her at dormammu;s level so i dont get your point?...
The point, aside from the sea of quotes from Strange and AO, is that neither Strange nor the AO had to resort to freeing another demon to deal with Dormammu like they did for Umar.
Dormammu even exhausted himself fighting Strange and needed Strange's help to reinforce the barrier holding back the Mindless Ones, something Umar did by herself as soon as she made her appearance in the Dark Dimension.
Originally posted by zopzop
Not a destroyer? No, of course not 😖hifty:Fact is, in both his recent appearances he manifested in full on Earth (not an avatar, not a possessed host body like Chthon, but the FULL GORATH) and nothing was destroyed because of his "aura" or power output. Even in the Neg flashback when he was in prehistoric times, wielding his "awesome" power vs ape men, nothing planet busting happened.
Way to use a scan out of context. It was said by Nicholas Scratch himself that Shuma-Gorath was weak and hungry. Shuma was even collapsing over itself. It's like saying Galactus is automatically a weakling because he has low showings when barely fed.
And again, the issue is control. Shuma feeds on realities and entities within those realities, even supported most recently in Thanos Imperative with the Many-Angled Ones. There would be no point in him destroying anything for the sake of destroying. It's Shuma-Gorath's desire to rule over Earth, not destroy it. It's been stated by Gorath itself. So I'm not sure where you were going with that point.
Originally posted by CortSether
Way to use a scan out of context. It was said by Nicholas Scratch himself that Shuma-Gorath was weak and hungry. Shuma was even collapsing over itself. It's like saying Galactus is automatically a weakling because he has low showings when barely fed.And again, the issue is control. Shuma feeds on realities and entities within those realities, even supported most recently in Thanos Imperative with the Many-Angled Ones. There would be no point in him destroying anything for the sake of destroying. It's Shuma-Gorath's desire to rule over Earth, not destroy it. It's been stated by Gorath itself. So I'm not sure where you were going with that point.
So let me get this straight, he has a "hunger weakness" now too? It don't end with this guy does it?
PS I thought it was one of the Salem Seven that exploited "his biggest weakness", vertigo, and made him fall flat on his @$$. I can post the scan if you like, but I wanted to save Gorath the embarrassment.
PSS I love how Gorath feeds on realities and the entities in these realities yet somehow isn't considered a destroyer.
Originally posted by zopzop
So let me get this straight, he has a "hunger weakness" now too? It don't end with this guy does it?PS I thought it was one of the Salem Seven that exploited "his biggest weakness", vertigo, and made him fall flat on his @$$. I can post the scan if you like, but I wanted to save Gorath the embarrassment.
PSS I love how Gorath feeds on realities and the entities in these realities yet somehow [b]isn't
considered a destroyer. [/B]
Shuma destroys what it wants. It has control of its powers like most Gods tend to have. But Shuma-Gorath has always shown that as far as Earth 616 is concerned it would rather rule over it, not destroy it.
Shuma's only been shown to have 'hunger' as an ill-effect during that once instance. Scratch literally states it was Shuma's long sleep that has made him weak and hungry. Imo, since that's the first we saw of Shuma since his battle with Strange/Arioch, he was probably just recently fully reformed in his dimension or at least had been sleeping from the point Strange bled out Shuma's energy. In any case, no other writer has written Shuma as weak from lack of energy so it would be ridiculous to base Shuma's power on that showing.
And the whole 'greatest weakness being its equilibrium' was writer stupidity rivaling the likes of Greg Pak. Shuma-Gorath has no definitive form and can manipulate how it portrays itself. Not to mention Gods' physical manifestations have nothing to do with their inherent powers. Shuma was shown to be a multi-dimensional destroyer capable of getting the Vishanti off its back and Sise-Neg to resort to banishing it yet the writer mentions something like 'equilibrium' being a weakness (never shown before or after). The only way to interpret that was Shuma falling due to its weakness from hunger after its long slumber. You know, kinda like how Galactus has been made a b**** many times due to hunger. But we know Galactus is usually much more powerful than that now don't we? Same with Shuma. Shuma's power fluctuates based on how much energy it has absorbed from other entities/realities/etc.
Eh, everybody has a low showing once in a while. Zom's entire comic history was nothing but low showings 😄
Originally posted by zopzopIt's hard to say who is stronger or even older. The ONLY times I'm aware of that Dormammu referenced Chthon are a) in a Strange issue and b) in What If - Time Quake (Wolverine was Lord of Vampires during Inferno) it should be noted this Time Quake arc affected ALL reality and even 616 reality so I guess we are allowed to use examples from it as legit sources.
Here is the scan from the Dr. Strange issue regarding Dormammu and Chthon, Dormammu has an artifact of Chthon's and refers to Chthon as "Great" :
The other was from the Time Quake arc and had Dormammu going on about the Darkhold and it's power.
"Great" Chthon is merely a title like Dread Dormammu or Supreme Satanish. Dormammu has referred to Satanish as "Supreme" while stating even he (Supreme Santanish) could buffet the Master of the Dark Dimensions like Dr Strange was. Dormammu has far better feats than Chthon so let's not kid around here. You act as if one showing against Strange would put him above Dormammu.
On the subject of the Vishanti : Oshtur herself is now an Elder God representing the element Air and she is Agamotto's mother through virgin birth. Hoggoth is a member of Gorath's race.
Hoggoth is a member of Gorath's race? Um where are you getting this from? And none of what you said is relevant to anything.
They go up an down in power depending on writers, here is Strange saying Satannish made him feel more helpless than Dorammmu even at the height of Dormammu's power :But then it was later revealed that Dormammu created Satannish. It's just one big mess.
Except Satanish was taking orders from Dormammu and got whooped by Mephisto when Dormammu left.
Dormammu>Mephisto=>Satanish
Dormammu shackled Zom. He also imprisoned Umar who was only released after Dormammu was banished in his fight with Eternity.
Dormammu>Zom>Umar
Originally posted by zopzop
Was it hyperbole when AO, in a panic, banished Clea and was attempting to banish Strange rather than have them die at Umar's hand?Was it hyperbole when AO ordered Strange to release Zom because neither of them could deal with Umar?
Was it hyperbole when Clea said no power in the Dark Dimension could banish the Mindless Ones now that Dormammu was dead (they were rampaging uncontrollably), then Umar shows up and banished them?
Lol, it's hyperbole when they claimed she's equal to Dormammu because everything else shows that he's more powerful then her including direct confrontations between the two siblings. If she was his equal, how was she imprisoned by him? Dormammu shackled Zom and imprisoned Umar. It's stated in Legends of the Dark Dimensions that Umar was severely injured in their fight with the Mindless Ones and took secondary role to Dormammu. The Dreaded One then reverted to partially Faltine form and forged the Flames of Regency.
Originally posted by zopzopReading comprehension is your friend. He calls himself a destroyer and goes on to say he doesn't want to conquer the Earth, he wants to consume it.
And Dormammu has been referred to and refers to himself as a Chaos Lord. Yet he takes over dimensions and rules them, not destroy them. Oshtur has been referred to as omnipotent so I should take it that she's the equal of the Infinity Guantlet? lol.
Dormammu, through circumstances unknown, shackled Zom. Dormammu never imprisoned him or banished him, that was all Eternity.
Zom lost to Dormammu. Zom got imprisoned by Eternity as well. Dormammu actually wrecked Eternity and dispersed them both. Dormammu far better record than what most of these characters can claim.
What happened 20-30 years after Umar was first introduced to comics is meaningless in this discussion. AT THE TIME OF HER FIRST APPEARANCE, it was said by both Strange and the Ancient One that she was at least Dormammu's peer, at least. Ancient One even said that she's has Dormammu's power and it grows still.
And in first appearances, most new characters are hyped up. Who cares about first appearances? A character has entire history developed by multiple writers and stories and you want to pick her first appearance where they depict her for dramatical reasons? Not even 10 years, try like 10 books or so later she came to Dormammu's banished realm and was eating out of his hand. She then aided in breaking Strange's chain so he could beat Dormammu - she was that desperate. And he only won because of Dormammu's own promise never to invade Earth. The majority of appearances put him above her.
Originally posted by CortSether
Shuma destroys what it wants. It has control of its powers like most Gods tend to have. But Shuma-Gorath has always shown that as far as Earth 616 is concerned it would rather rule over it, not destroy it.Shuma's only been shown to have 'hunger' as an ill-effect during that once instance. Scratch literally states it was Shuma's long sleep that has made him weak and hungry. Imo, since that's the first we saw of Shuma since his battle with Strange/Arioch, he was probably just recently fully reformed in his dimension or at least had been sleeping from the point Strange bled out Shuma's energy. In any case, no other writer has written Shuma as weak from lack of energy so it would be ridiculous to base Shuma's power on that showing.
And the whole 'greatest weakness being its equilibrium' was writer stupidity rivaling the likes of Greg Pak. Shuma-Gorath has no definitive form and can manipulate how it portrays itself. Not to mention Gods' physical manifestations have nothing to do with their inherent powers. Shuma was shown to be a multi-dimensional destroyer capable of getting the Vishanti off its back and Sise-Neg to resort to banishing it yet the writer mentions something like 'equilibrium' being a weakness (never shown before or after). The only way to interpret that was Shuma falling due to its weakness from hunger after its long slumber. You know, kinda like how Galactus has been made a b**** many times due to hunger. But we know Galactus is usually much more powerful than that now don't we? Same with Shuma. Shuma's power fluctuates based on how much energy it has absorbed from other entities/realities/etc.
Eh, everybody has a low showing once in a while. Zom's entire comic history was nothing but low showings 😄
Everything that doesn't fit your idea of what Gorath's power level should be is stupidity? Gorath getting WTFPWNED in his realm : PIS. Strange absorbing his lieutenant that had "infinite" power : PIS. Gorath having a vertigo weakness : PIS. Gorath having a "hunger weakness" : PIS.
And at least with Zom, he wasn't dealing with stone age shamans, third world mud hut dwellers or near death geriatrics. His foes were Dormammu, Strange with AO's power, Eternity, Umar with the Flames of Regency (considered at the time Dormammu's equal), and the LT. That's one hell of a rogue's gallery.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
"Great" Chthon is merely a title like Dread Dormammu or Supreme Satanish. Dormammu has referred to Satanish as "Supreme" while stating even he (Supreme Santanish) could buffet the Master of the Dark Dimensions like Dr Strange was. Dormammu has far better feats than Chthon so let's not kid around here. You act as if one showing against Strange would put him above Dormammu.Hoggoth is a member of Gorath's race? Um where are you getting this from? And none of what you said is relevant to anything.
Except Satanish was taking orders from Dormammu and got whooped by Mephisto when Dormammu left.
Dormammu>Mephisto=>Satanish
Dormammu shackled Zom. He also imprisoned Umar who was only released after Dormammu was banished in his fight with Eternity.
Dormammu>Zom>UmarLol, it's hyperbole when they claimed she's equal to Dormammu because everything else shows that he's more powerful then her including direct confrontations between the two siblings. If she was his equal, how was she imprisoned by him? Dormammu shackled Zom and imprisoned Umar. It's stated in Legends of the Dark Dimensions that Umar was severely injured in their fight with the Mindless Ones and took secondary role to Dormammu. The Dreaded One then reverted to partially Faltine form and forged the Flames of Regency.
And Dormammu has been referred to and refers to himself as a Chaos Lord. Yet he takes over dimensions and rules them, not destroy them. Oshtur has been referred to as omnipotent so I should take it that she's the equal of the Infinity Guantlet? lol.
Zom lost to Dormammu. Zom got imprisoned by Eternity as well. Dormammu actually wrecked Eternity and dispersed them both. Dormammu far better record than what most of these characters can claim.
And in first appearances, most new characters are hyped up. Who cares about first appearances? A character has entire history developed by multiple writers and stories and you want to pick her first appearance where they depict her for dramatical reasons? Not even 10 years, try like 10 books or so later she came to Dormammu's banished realm and was eating out of his hand. She then aided in breaking Strange's chain so he could beat Dormammu - she was that desperate. And he only won because of Dormammu's own promise never to invade Earth. The majority of appearances put him above her.
You got any proof "Great" is a title for Chthon like "Supereme" is for Satannish? If so post the scan please?
Hoggoth IS a member of Gorath's race according to Marvel Arcana/Marvel Tarot. And this wasn't in reply to anything you said but another poster who asked for information.
Except at the time, there was no such story involving Satannish and Dormammu. Strange claimed that no one, not even Dorammmu made him feel this helpless. So even if you retroactively apply the "Dormammu" amp to Satannish, he still said Satannish made him feel more helpless than Dormammu at the height of his power.
At the time of her appearance, she was considered, at least, Dormammu's equal by Strange and the AO. It's not hyperbole because they weren't making an exaggerated claim regarding her rocking creation or other BS. Strange who battled both, said her power equaled or exceeded Dormammu's, I even provided the scans. AO battled Dormammu and said the same thing.
Dormammu exhausted himself battling Strange and drew power from the barrier, in exactly the same way Umar drew power from the barrier to battle Clea. Yet you don't count that against Dormammu. He even turned his back to Strange and was visibly scared of the incoming Mindless Ones! Strange could have attacked him but it wasn't honorable.
It should be noted this was Strange with NO artifacts. No Eye of Agamotto, he had that other amulet. No Book of the Vishanti, that came later. No Cloak of Leviataion (that actually acted as a shield on some occasions). Nothing. And he still fought Dormammu to a stalemate in his own realm!
Compare that to his showings vs Umar (when he finally had the true Eye of Agamotto, his Cloak of Levitation, and the Book of the Vishanti) then Zom.
Zom was shackled by Dormammu off panel, so we don't know how he did it. We also know that it was Eternity who later Blinded him and then imprisioned him and exiled him. If Dormammu succeeded in shackling him under his own power then why not destroy or banish him? Why did it take Eternity to do that?
Originally posted by zopzop
Everything that doesn't fit your idea of what Gorath's power level should be is stupidity? Gorath getting WTFPWNED in his realm : PIS. Strange absorbing his lieutenant that had "infinite" power : PIS. Gorath having a vertigo weakness : PIS. Gorath having a "hunger weakness" : PIS.
So are you done whining?
First meeting: Strange couldn't do jack to Shuma Gorath and ran from him. He killed the Ancient One to stop Shuma Gorath's manifestation. There's no PIS in that. This a far more dire tactic then against Chthon - atleast his girl didn't have to die to stop Chthon?
Second meeting: Strange couldn't beat SG at all and plead another entity do it.
Third meeting: Strange need black magic lessons his previous foe (Ancient One's rival), gained Nyirch's eldrich energy, all of Victoria's power, and merged with Arioch to face SG in it's own realm. Yeah, keep ignoring this part. I'm not calling that PIS. lol. Chthon was hurt by one simple bolt.
Fourth meeting: Strange closed off the gate from Shuma Gorath.
All you have is one meeting against either Set and Chthon and you use that as the determining factor against SG. These two are jokes compared to Shuma Gorath.
And at least with Zom, he wasn't dealing with stone age shamans, third world mud hut dwellers or near death geriatrics. His foes were Dormammu, Strange with AO's power, Eternity, Umar with the Flames of Regency (considered at the time Dormammu's equal), and the LT. That's one hell of a rogue's gallery.
Keep whining and acting as if that's what SG did. From a thousand planes away, he wrecked Earth, took hold of Nightmare as a puppet, and manifested in the Ancient One. LMAO at you pathetic attempt bringing LT as if Zom would have done anything to LT.
Here's a better list.
Sise-Neg - who admitted it would to him time and power just to attempt to destroy SG.
Ancient One - who died because of SG
Crom & 3 Iron Bound Books
Kulan Gath
Vammatar
Kaluu
Dr Strange
And according to Thanos Imperative.
Thanos
Death
The guy is a ruler of hundreds of dimensions. Zom is a guy that was shackled by Dormammu. lol
Originally posted by zopzop
You got any proof "Great" is a title for Chthon like "Supereme" is for Satannish? If so post the scan please?
LMAO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthon_(Marvel_Comics)
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/chthonother.htm
The "Great Shadow".
Hoggoth IS a member of Gorath's race according to Marvel Arcana/Marvel Tarot. And this wasn't in reply to anything you said but another poster who asked for information.
What book specifically are you referring to because Arcana has about 4 books.
Except at the time, there was no such story involving Satannish and Dormammu. Strange claimed that no one, not even Dorammmu made him feel this helpless. So even if you retroactively apply the "Dormammu" amp to Satannish, he still said Satannish made him feel more helpless than Dormammu at the height of his power.
Lol, you do know that about a few decades before that story Dormammu claimed that not even "Supreme Satannish" could so buffet him as Strange was. Strange's attack, which was more potent due to Dormammu's deplete of power from his own promise, was doing what Dormammu says even Supreme Satannish couldn't. This is before that story you posted and appearances after that story point to Dormammu creating Satannish and Satannish losing to Mephisto. You have one argument where Strange says one thing while everything else says Dormammu is superior to Satannish and even his creator. Satannish was taking orders from Dormammu.
At the time of her appearance, she was considered, at least, Dormammu's equal by Strange and the AO. It's not hyperbole because they weren't making an exaggerated claim regarding her rocking creation or other BS. Strange who battled both, said her power equaled or exceeded Dormammu's, I even provided the scans. AO battled Dormammu and said the same thing.
First appearances always make the villains out to be incredibly powerful. Stop ignoring this point. She was eating out of Dormammu's hand issues later - not 10 years. Dormammu kicked her ass and shackled Zom so deal with it. She run from Zom while Dormammu fought Eternity - the one who imprisoned Zom. How hard is that to understand? Their entire history contradicts her first appearance depiction.
Dormammu exhausted himself battling Strange and drew power from the barrier, in exactly the same way Umar drew power from the barrier to battle Clea. Yet you don't count that against Dormammu. He even turned his back to Strange and was visibly scared of the incoming Mindless Ones! Strange could have attacked him but it wasn't honorable.
Lol. That barrier was put up by Dormammu, linked to his own power. He didn't drain anything. The more Dormammu exerted his own power the weaker the barrier got. That's why he was taken by surprise when the Mindless Ones broke through. Would you like to point to where it says that Dormammu was drawing power from the barrier the way it outright states it in Umar's showing? Umar intentionally took power from a barrier Dormammu and Strange assisted in putting up.
It should be noted this was Strange with NO artifacts. No Eye of Agamotto, he had that other amulet. No Book of the Vishanti, that came later. No Cloak of Leviataion (that actually acted as a shield on some occasions). Nothing. And he still fought Dormammu to a stalemate in his own realm!
Are you referring to their first fight and calling that a stalemate? If that's the one you're talking about, then that's hardly a stalemate.
Compare that to his showings vs Umar (when he finally had the true Eye of Agamotto, his Cloak of Levitation, and the Book of the Vishanti) then Zom.
I'll compare it to Umar's showing when you answer my question. And why are you using Strange as a gauge when Dormammu has imprisoned Umar, beaten her in battle, and shackled a being that she ran from? Some logic you got there.
Zom was shackled by Dormammu off panel, so we don't know how he did it. We also know that it was Eternity who later Blinded him and then imprisioned him and exiled him. If Dormammu succeeded in shackling him under his own power then why not destroy or banish him? Why did it take Eternity to do that?
Lol, you keep saying that. But Dormammu has actually taken on Eternity and wreck both of them in the fight. Zom is all hype while Dormammu has feats to back him up.
Originally posted by zopzop
Everything that doesn't fit your idea of what Gorath's power level should be is stupidity? Gorath getting WTFPWNED in his realm : PIS. Strange absorbing his lieutenant that had "infinite" power : PIS. Gorath having a vertigo weakness : PIS. Gorath having a "hunger weakness" : PIS.And at least with Zom, he wasn't dealing with stone age shamans, third world mud hut dwellers or near death geriatrics. His foes were Dormammu, Strange with AO's power, Eternity, Umar with the Flames of Regency (considered at the time Dormammu's equal), and the LT. That's one hell of a rogue's gallery.
What happened with Gorath when Strange fought him wasn't PIS. He had to become Shuma to defeat him. Hence the quote from Shuma - He who fights dragons becomes a dragon himself. As well as writer narration talking about Strange's continued sacrifice.
Strange absorbing Arioch was PIS because Strange has never before or after demonstrated the ability to forcefully absorb someone. It sure would have saved him a lot of time against other foes before Arioch who were shown to be far weaker.
The vertigo weakness is more WIS. The writer just threw that in there with no explanation whatsoever. If Gorath had a 'vertigo' weakness before then it would have been a hell of a lot easier to deal with him. Anyway, no writer before or after that mention a vertigo weakness so it should be dismissed. It also makes no sense in that Shuma-Gorath's form is just one it chooses to be in and it can greatly manipulate its appearance. A god's shape would have nothing to do with its inherent powers and weaknesses.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So are you done whining?First meeting: Strange couldn't do jack to Shuma Gorath and ran from him. He killed the Ancient One to stop Shuma Gorath's manifestation. There's no PIS in that. This a far more dire tactic then against Chthon - atleast his girl didn't have to die to stop Chthon?
Second meeting: Strange couldn't beat SG at all and plead another entity do it.
Third meeting: Strange need black magic lessons his previous foe (Ancient One's rival), gained Nyirch's eldrich energy, all of Victoria's power, and merged with Arioch to face SG in it's own realm. Yeah, keep ignoring this part. I'm not calling that PIS. lol. Chthon was hurt by one simple bolt.
Fourth meeting: Strange closed off the gate from Shuma Gorath.
All you have is one meeting against either Set and Chthon and you use that as the determining factor against SG. These two are jokes compared to Shuma Gorath.
Keep whining and acting as if that's what SG did. From a thousand planes away, he wrecked Earth, took hold of Nightmare as a puppet, and manifested in the Ancient One. LMAO at you pathetic attempt bringing LT as if Zom would have done anything to LT.
Here's a better list.
Sise-Neg - who admitted it would to him time and power just to attempt to destroy SG.
Ancient One - who died because of SG
Crom & 3 Iron Bound Books
Kulan Gath
Vammatar
Kaluu
Dr StrangeAnd according to Thanos Imperative.
Thanos
DeathThe guy is a ruler of hundreds of dimensions. Zom is a guy that was shackled by Dormammu. lol
LOL look at that list of losers.
PS you got proof of Gorath going up against Death or Thanos in TI? I don't want a name being mentioned in a spell or as reference, I want to see him vs them.
Originally posted by CortSether
What happened with Gorath when Strange fought him wasn't PIS. He had to become Shuma to defeat him. Hence the quote from Shuma - He who fights dragons becomes a dragon himself. As well as writer narration talking about Strange's continued sacrifice.Strange absorbing Arioch was PIS because Strange has never before or after demonstrated the ability to forcefully absorb someone. It sure would have saved him a lot of time against other foes before Arioch who were shown to be far weaker.
The vertigo weakness is more WIS. The writer just threw that in there with no explanation whatsoever. If Gorath had a 'vertigo' weakness before then it would have been a hell of a lot easier to deal with him. Anyway, no writer before or after that mention a vertigo weakness so it should be dismissed. It also makes no sense in that Shuma-Gorath's form is just one it chooses to be in and it can greatly manipulate its appearance. A god's shape would have nothing to do with its inherent powers and weaknesses.
This is the problem that you don't seem to be understanding Cort. He's never been shown to be doing much of ANYTHING. He cast an illusion at Strange, then Strange killed him. The end.
And all of Gorath's recent showings have been even more pathetic than his earlier 80s ones. Sue punching him in the eye and stunning him with an invisible force field, some d-lister knocking him down exploiting his "vertigo weakness", his "hunger weakness", etc...
His appearance in Invaders Now! didn't do anything to assuage my doubts about him power wise either.
