Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Of course we can gauge it. It gave Strange enough power to fight SG. When Strange became SG, his entrance into the lower realm caused a natural discharge of power that Kaluu noted would destroy galaxies if Strange entered the 616 without burning up most of that power. The power to wreck galaxies by being in a lower realm - that's quantifiable.Hmmm...an unamped sorceror decides visit a chaos dimension and succumbs to it's power...Kaluu anyone? But was it killing him like Kaluu, nope.
He then hurls a spell molded from belief/faith/will that causes Chthon to howl in pain, striking back at Strange and sent him hurling out of Chthon's dimension. He didn't flee that dimension; he harmed Chthon enough that it lashed out and blasted him out. lol Fled? Chthon was harmed by one spell from Strange - one!
Strange had no trouble of preventing Chthon from forming on Earth without killing the Victoria. All it took was a spell using all that is highest and purest in her soul. Jeezes, and had Chthon not retreated he would've been destroyed! Letsee Strange try this purest soul crap with Shuma Gorath. Remember when Strange and the Ancient One had no other option of stopping SG from entering the world through the AO so Strange had to KILL his master instead? Lol @ this soul thing that Chthon could've been destroyed from.
You forget how Loki easily crossed that barrier threw a wrench in Chthon's plans. The so called chaos Chthon was creating when he was present is a minor feat compared to Shuma Gorath being a thousand planes away and wrecking havoc to Earth using just a voodoo image.
And then Chthon got his butt kicked in by Hank Pym, Scientist Supreme (lol).
Yeah, this is a way better feat then having powers that could wreck all from a thousand planes away using just a voodoo image. Or being such a power house that a near Godly Sise-Neg opted not to fight but rather put SG to sleep before SG is aware of Sise-Neg. It takes him a million year to fight another god and the result was the death of the dinosaur? And you some how put that above Sise-Neg avoiding a confrontation with SG.
Who was he going to get an amp from? The midwife who's purpose is to act as a midwife or those minor demons? Some amp there.
As for Set, he's getting an amp from? Those useless Serpent Men? When he takes their power, he takes all their magic from them. The only one he could've taken powers from was Thor and then you'd have Thor, former god of thunder. lol
He harassed Strange and took over the Ancient One's body. Strange killed the Ancient One to stop SG b/c there was no other choice according to the Ancient One. Chthon goes about and picks on a woman and got handled by her purest of soul that could've actually destroyed him had he not retreated. Remember that other time when Viper vaporized him with a gun? Maybe for Chthon to have some street creds, he should avoid picking on women...or women beaters like Pym.
I remembered the Ancient One dying too. But according to this he was pretending to die to bring Strange's potential out. Going to dive through my Dr. Strange Essential this weekend to see if this is true. If this is true, then Zom didn't even fight an amped Strange but a rookie Strange who was still learning. The Ancient One does die permanently tho to stop Shuma Gorath from coming to the 616.
http://marvel.com/universe/Ancient_One_(sorcerer)
First of all, there is ZERO proof Strange would have shattered a world let alone a galaxy with his aura after the Gorath fight. Unless you got on panel proof of Gorath being a galaxy buster.
That's the thing though, Strange harassed Chthon with a "purity" bolt and Strange fled his realm, he didn't shatter Chthon like he did Gorath - IN GORATH'S OWN REALM OF POWER. He didn't turn Chthon's power back at him, he didn't absorb/drain Chthon of power leaving him dead, nothing.
Chthon getting pwned while in human hosts isn't impressive at all since they are attacking him at his weakest link, his host body. And speaking of which, at least Viper used first world tech (a gun) and Hank Pym has some knowledge of human physiology to attack Chthon's host and disrupt his speech patterns. Gorath and crew were beaten by Neanderthal shamans (depending on source) and harassing loincloth clad grass hut dwellers. Keep it classy Gorath.
Fact still stands Set only lost to a) a cosmic cube backed by the power of Strange's artifacts and b) Classic Demogorge (who had Odin in a panic and that's saying something). Never to Strange, in or out of his realm.
Here is the scan regarding the Ancient One :
He did indeed have the AO's power. So it was a shackled Zom vs AO amped Strange and Strange couldn't put down, banish, leech power from or otherwise beat Zom. Thank the Vishanti the LT showed up 😄
PS Zom did in fact have Strange dead to rights but then he sensed the LT and panicked, the scan is in my Zom respect thread. Strange is dazed wondering why Zom didn't finish off the attack. Too lazy to look it up but it's there.
Originally posted by Uriel005
it is true that Zom was much earlier in Strange's career and he still hasn't conquered even one dimension.
It's also true that Strange never beat a shackled Zom even with the Ancient One's power and Zom almost killed Strange had he not panicked at the coming of the LT.
Zom was shackled (circumstances unknown) by Dormammu and then imprisoned by Eternity with a "Crown of Blindness" and banished to a prison beyond all space/time. Then he's wtf pwned by the LT and exists as a sliver of his former self. Don't see how he has much time to conquer anything after a beating like that.
Let's see Gorath step up his game and challenge Dormammu or Eternity or the LT and see how many dimensions he conquers after that, he can't even deal with Strange.
@753
Is he? Mephisto stalemated Galactus in his realm before Galactus threatened to consume it and has said that inside his hell he's the equal to Odin or Zeus.
Zom, Gorath, and Chthon don't have that kind of feat on panel. Set stalemated Classic Demogorge for a million or so years before Demogorge gained the upper hand. How does this feat compare to Mehphisto's? Depends on how you view Galactus and Demogorge power wise.
And like you I used to think Zom or Gorath were the head honchos with Zom edging out Gorath. But now I'm not so sure either are anything impressive.
I'd reorder my original power scale as : Set > Chthon > Zom > Gorath. I want to post a Secret Avengers scan that would have us believe Set older than the Celestials or Watchers and is a universal threat. But the story is confusing. So I'm holding off on the scan till someone can confirm or deny my understanding of the story.
For reference sake it's Secret Avengers 1-4, they find a Serpent Crown in a hidden temple on Mars.
Originally posted by 753
wasnt it outright stated mephisto was like a rat in shuma's temple?
Yes but that means nothing. Arioch claimed "limitless" power and all we saw him do was attack Strange with an illusion. Unless Gorath and Mephisto have fought and Gorath pwned him, I don't think Kaluu's statement means anything.
Originally posted by zopzopwhen strange became shuma, his mere presence in the 616 would destroy the solar system (or galaxy? its been years).
Yes but that means nothing. Arioch claimed "limitless" power and all we saw him do was attack Strange with an illusion. Unless Gorath and Mephisto have fought and Gorath pwned him, I don't think Kaluu's statement means anything.
Originally posted by 753
when strange became shuma, his mere presence in the 616 would destroy the solar system (or galaxy? its been years).
That's what Kaluu said. But nothing was shown on panel. And hence my point. Hype, hyperbole, and braggadocio are meaningless unless it's backed up on panel.
On panel Umar stated if Zom ever broke free from his shackles no power in the universe could stop him or his rampage. Was she telling the truth? Or was it hype/hyperbole? We'll never know because Zom did nothing on panel to back up Umar's hyping of him.
Compare this to Mephisto, he bragged that in his hell realm he was the equal to Odin or Zeus. He backed up that claim when he stalemated Galactus till Galactus threatened to devour his hell realm.
Originally posted by zopzop
That's what Kaluu said. But nothing was shown on panel. And hence my point. Hype, hyperbole, and braggadocio are meaningless unless it's backed up on panel.On panel Umar stated if Zom ever broke free from his shackles no power in the universe could stop him or his rampage. Was she telling the truth? Or was it hype/hyperbole? We'll never know because Zom did nothing on panel to back up Umar's hyping of him.
Compare this to Mephisto, he bragged that in his hell realm he was the equal to Odin or Zeus. He backed up that claim when he stalemated Galactus till Galactus threatened to devour his hell realm.
A large explosion resulted from Strange just trying to leave the realm they were in which is where the evidence comes from that Strange would destroy galaxies if he left. And it's not like a master of black magic like Kaluu would have no idea what he's talking about.
So what, zopzop knows what Strange/Shuma is capable of but not Kaluu? 😆
Originally posted by CortSether
A large explosion resulted from Strange just trying to leave the realm they were in which is where the evidence comes from that Strange would destroy galaxies if he left. And it's not like a master of black magic like Kaluu would have no idea what he's talking about.So what, zopzop knows what Strange/Shuma is capable of but not Kaluu? 😆
Using your logic, nothing in the universe can halt Zom's rampage should he become unshackled? I mean Umar herself said so, and she's a power member of an ancient mystical race - the Faltine. And at that time she had the Flames of Regency about her so she was also ruler of the dark dimension too. If she said it, it must be 100% accurate.
Ancient demi-god who rules her own dimension (Umar with Flames of Regency) > unamped magician (Kaluu) no?
Originally posted by zopzop
First of all, there is ZERO proof Strange would have shattered a world let alone a galaxy with his [b]aura after the Gorath fight. Unless you got on panel proof of Gorath being a galaxy buster.[/B]
Siseg-Neg avoided a full confrontation with SG. A being that was moments away from absorbing everything and creating the big bang. How's that not proof of SG's power? How many times are you going to avoid this point?
SG was creating havoc to Earth a thousand planes away using a voodoo image. Show me a being that's capable of that feat or are you going to avoid this as well?
Kaluu was dying in a lower realm due to it's power. SG Strange's appearance in that realm was causing a natural discharged Kaluu noted. And that was only two planes down from SG. There is atleast 997 planes of reality between left to go.
Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's hyperbole. You prove that it's hyperbole. Kaluu stated the truth which is backed up by SG's past history. Why don't you explain why Kaluu was dying, SG Strange discharging powers in that lower realm, and why Sise-Neg felt that he had to fight a dragged out battle with SG if it notices him? Don't claim hyperbole until you have answered these. Otherwise it's just your opinion that it's hypberbole but on panel it's comic fact.
That's the thing though, Strange harassed Chthon with a "purity" bolt and Strange fled his realm, he didn't shatter Chthon like he did Gorath -
Where does he flee his realm? Can I have a scan of that? I think you book has an extra page.
Also one bolt is enough to harm Chthon HOWLED in pain and lashed back. Strange with prep hurl atleast 4 attacks SG and never once the SG scream in pain. Chthon is a b!tch that was harmed by some wussy attack.
IN GORATH'S OWN REALM OF POWER. He didn't turn Chthon's power back at him, he didn't absorb/drain Chthon of power leaving him dead, nothing.
Where does he absorb Shuma Gorath? Can I have that scan too? I think you have special editions.
Chthon getting pwned while in human hosts isn't impressive at all since they are attacking him at his weakest link, his host body.
Strange pwned Chthon and saved Victoria. He had to kill his master to stop Shuma Gorath. SG>Chthon. lol @ a purest of soul attack pwning Chthon twice. If only Shuma Gorath were that easy. Atleast with SG, Strange had to absorb all of Victoria's magic to fight SG's agent and not harness her soul powah (lol).
And speaking of which, at least Viper used first world tech (a gun) and Hank Pym has some knowledge of human physiology to attack Chthon's host and disrupt his speech patterns. Gorath and crew were beaten by Neanderthal shamans (depending on source) and harassing loincloth clad grass hut dwellers. Keep it classy Gorath.
Neaderthal Shamans? Are you referring to Kulan Gath and Vammatar and claiming that Viper's gun and Pym's helmet is above these two mages? Lmao. Why? Because you call it first world tech? Shuma Gorath owned these two hard and lost when his Iron Bound books used by Crom, a Hyberian God, used them to banish him. Get your facts straight. Getting pwned by a gun and a wife beater: classic.
Fact still stands Set only lost to a) a cosmic cube backed by the power of Strange's artifacts and b) Classic Demogorge (who had Odin in a panic and that's saying something). Never to Strange, in or out of his realm.[quote]So you have no point. Strange had nobody to absorb because Set's agents all suck in power. lol @ those serpent men.
[quote]
Here is the scan regarding the Ancient One :He did indeed have the AO's power. So it was a shackled Zom vs AO amped Strange and Strange couldn't put down, banish, leech power from or otherwise beat Zom. Thank the Vishanti the LT showed up 😄[/b]
Still an inexprienced Strange with AO's power who still held his own. Zom did what again because he never Strange beat. In fact, Strange went on to actually put up a fight against LT while Zom died just the coming of LT. And this demon was suppose to be the most powerful? Only in Strange's early days when he never met Shuma Gorath.
PS Zom did in fact have Strange dead to rights but then he sensed the LT and panicked, the scan is in my Zom respect thread. Strange is dazed wondering why Zom didn't finish off the attack. Too lazy to look it up but it's there.
I've read the fight before. Zom fought like an idiot with strength more than any display of power. He looks a like a more powerful version of Mangog that's it. Beating an inexperience Strange and Ancient One is above SG? Lol at this because neither of these can compare to the Vishanti's who've fought to keep SG off the 616. An experienced Strange practicing black magic still needed to merge with a plot device being to fight SG. OMG Zom is thunderclapping an inexperienced Strange and winning. ZOMG he must be above Shuma Gorath.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Siseg-Neg avoided a full confrontation with SG. A being that was moments away from absorbing everything and creating the big bang. How's that not proof of SG's power? How many times are you going to avoid this point?
SG was creating havoc to Earth a thousand planes away using a voodoo image. Show me a being that's capable of that feat or are you going to avoid this as well?
Kaluu was dying in a lower realm due to it's power. SG Strange's appearance in that realm was causing a natural discharged Kaluu noted. And that was only two planes down from SG. There is atleast 997 planes of reality between left to go.Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's hyperbole. You prove that it's hyperbole. Kaluu stated the truth which is backed up by SG's past history. Why don't you explain why Kaluu was dying, SG Strange discharging powers in that lower realm, and why Sise-Neg felt that he had to fight a dragged out battle with SG if it notices him? Don't claim hyperbole until you have answered these. Otherwise it's just your opinion that it's hypberbole but on panel it's comic fact.
Where does he flee his realm? Can I have a scan of that? I think you book has an extra page.
Also one bolt is enough to harm Chthon HOWLED in pain and lashed back. Strange with prep hurl atleast 4 attacks SG and never once the SG scream in pain. Chthon is a b!tch that was harmed by some wussy attack.
Where does he absorb Shuma Gorath? Can I have that scan too? I think you have special editions.
Strange pwned Chthon and saved Victoria. He had to kill his master to stop Shuma Gorath. SG>Chthon. lol @ a purest of soul attack pwning Chthon twice. If only Shuma Gorath were that easy. Atleast with SG, Strange had to absorb all of Victoria's magic to fight SG's agent and not harness her soul powah (lol).
Neaderthal Shamans? Are you referring to Kulan Gath and Vammatar and claiming that Viper's gun and Pym's helmet is above these two mages? Lmao. Why? Because you call it first world tech? Shuma Gorath owned these two hard and lost when his Iron Bound books used by Crom, a Hyberian God, used them to banish him. Get your facts straight. Getting pwned by a gun and a wife beater: classic.
Still an inexprienced Strange with AO's power who still held his own. Zom did what again because he never Strange beat. In fact, Strange went on to actually put up a fight against LT while Zom died just the coming of LT. And this demon was suppose to be the most powerful? Only in Strange's early days when he never met Shuma Gorath.
I've read the fight before. Zom fought like an idiot with strength more than any display of power. He looks a like a more powerful version of Mangog that's it. Beating an inexperience Strange and Ancient One is above SG? Lol at this because neither of these can compare to the Vishanti's who've fought to keep SG off the 616. An experienced Strange practicing black magic still needed to merge with a plot device being to fight SG. OMG Zom is thunderclapping an inexperienced Strange and winning. ZOMG he must be above Shuma Gorath.
I saw the scans of the Gorath/Neg confrontation. It seemed to me like Neg didn't want to be bothered with putting Gorath down because that would be a waste of power that he was accumulating.
What I find freaking hilarious is, what was Gorath doing at the time? Picking on ape men! LOL does this guy EVER fight beings in his weight class? He and his servants have picked on : ape men, third worlders living in mud huts, and a senior citizen. What next, newborns and handicapped children? 😆
It's hyperbole because it's not on panel, the best he did was that voodoo doll of Earth. That's nowhere near galaxy busting level.
I was referring to Strange "draining" Arioch not Gorath, since Arioch had "limitless" power why couldn't Strange likewise drain Chthon who is never said to have "limitless" power?
The Neanderthal shaman was a reference to who bound Gorath in the Hybrorian Age, there's conflicting sources. One says Crom the other a nameless shaman (one's a handbook and one's on panel I forget which).
Fact is Strange never beat Zom and was on the defense the whole fight till the LT showed up. Zom actually had Strange till he panicked at the coming of the LT. Strange WTFPWNED Gorath and all his minions in and out of their realms. I realize you don't like that fact but don't blame me, blame Marvel.
Originally posted by zopzop
I saw the scans of the Gorath/Neg confrontation. It seemed to me like Neg didn't want to be bothered with putting Gorath down because that would be a waste of power that he was accumulating.
LMAO at you trying to ignore this feat. Sise-Neg could've destroyed Strange with his slightest thought to which Strange confirmed. If Strange and Shuma Gorath are equals, then how Sise-Neg waste any energy destroying Shuma Gorath when it takes but a thought? Are you kidding me? He says it takes him time to ATTEMPT to destroy SG. If it takes time for him to try and beat SG, then that's not exactly beating him with a thought compared to Strange. Keep trying though. It's funny how a near-God level Sise-Neg compares Strange and SG.
What I find freaking hilarious is, what was Gorath doing at the time? Picking on ape men! LOL does this guy EVER fight beings in his weight class? He and his servants have picked on : ape men, third worlders living in mud huts, and a senior citizen. What next, newborns and handicapped children? 😆
Next up, the former sorceror Supreme the Ancient One...oh wait, the guy's dead because of Shuma Gorath. Oh that entire Earth that he was wrecking with just a voodoo image. Chthon picks on women and get a beat down but you're gonna act as if that's some how not humiliating. Atleast when Shuma Gorath picks on shamans and sorcerors, he usually kills them.
It's hyperbole because it's not on panel, the best he did was that voodoo doll of Earth. That's nowhere near galaxy busting level.
So now show me a being that's capable of such a feat from a thousand planes away with just a voodoo doll affecting an entire planet? Seriously, where's anything from Chthon or Set that's comparable? You gonna shy away? And why does Kaluu lay dying again and SG Strange discharge power in that plane when he never did such a thing in SG's realm? Again, he was 997 planes away from the 616. Yeah, ignore that point too will you.
I was referring to Strange "draining" Arioch not Gorath, since Arioch had "limitless" power why couldn't Strange likewise drain Chthon who is never said to have "limitless" power?
Why the heck would he merge with Chthon? If he merges with them, he becomes them. It's a desperate act do you realize that? When he took a potion of Zom's power, he had trouble controlling the demon. That's the trouble with merging with demonic beings. Lol. Strange absorbed Arioch out of desperation and he became SG not because of choice but rather the consequence of his actions. You're solution to "win" is to venture into Chthon's realm, and merge with the being who's attempting to escape that dimension, then come into the 616 with side being inside and hope to control it's power. 🙄 Doing exactly the opposite thing he was trying to prevent! Wow, let's hope you don't ever get to write a Dr. Strange comic book.
The Neanderthal shaman was a reference to who bound Gorath in the Hybrorian Age, there's conflicting sources.
The one who had the three Iron Bound books to beat SG? That Shaman vanished by SG's bolt after reading the spells of the books. Now you're claiming that first world tech (a gun and pym's helmet) is better at defeating a lord of chaos then 3 Iron Bound Books? Lol, that's like saying a gun is better weapon than the Darkhold or the Book of Vishantis.
One says Crom the other a nameless shaman (one's a handbook and one's on panel I forget which).
Lol, Kulan Gath and Vammatar released SG again and the two shamans were killed by him. They pulled out spells including invoking Set's name in their spell and did nothing to SG. The Shaman that used the book also vanish after a bolt of SG hit him. So much for your nonsense about a shaman beating SG. Conan took the Iron Bound Books and climbed up Mt Crom where he threw them into the sky and a light burst caused SG to vanquished once again. Conan came down Mt. Crom where he told the villagers that his eyes could not see amist the outburst but claims it is Crom (who at dawn's time imprisoned SG) beat SG with the Iron Bound Books.
Fact is Strange never beat Zom and was on the defense the whole fight till the LT showed up. Zom actually had Strange till he panicked at the coming of the LT.
Keep trying because Zom is nothing to SG. Beating an inexperience Strange means nothing. With a thought Sise-Neg could've killed Strange and yet he admitted he would have to waste time to just ATTEMPT to destroy Shuma Gorath. He could've destroyed Strange but would have to attempt to destroy SG. Lol.
🙄 🙄 🙄
Strange WTFPWNED Gorath and all his minions in and out of their realms. I realize you don't like that fact but don't blame me, blame Marvel.
Keep trying.
- Let's ignore Arioch's amp
- Sise-Neg said that he would take time just to attempt to destroy SG unlike Strange who he was certain he would destroy with but a thought.
- And apparently a Shaman beat SG totally ignoring that it was actually the Iron Bound Books that was used to imprison him.
Strange couldn't even save his master the way he saved his lover so let's not act like Chthon is comparable.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LMAO at you trying to ignore this feat. Sise-Neg could've destroyed Strange with his slightest thought to which Strange confirmed. If Strange and Shuma Gorath are equals, then how Sise-Neg waste any energy destroying Shuma Gorath when it takes but a thought? Are you kidding me? He says it takes him time to ATTEMPT to destroy SG. If it takes time for him to try and beat SG, then that's not exactly beating him with a thought compared to Strange. Keep trying though. It's funny how a near-God level Sise-Neg compares Strange and SG.Next up, the former sorceror Supreme the Ancient One...oh wait, the guy's dead because of Shuma Gorath. Oh that entire Earth that he was wrecking with just a voodoo image. Chthon picks on women and get a beat down but you're gonna act as if that's some how not humiliating. Atleast when Shuma Gorath picks on shamans and sorcerors, he usually kills them.
So now show me a being that's capable of such a feat from a thousand planes away with just a voodoo doll affecting an entire planet? Seriously, where's anything from Chthon or Set that's comparable? You gonna shy away? And why does Kaluu lay dying again and SG Strange discharge power in that plane when he never did such a thing in SG's realm? Again, he was 997 planes away from the 616. Yeah, ignore that point too will you.
Why the heck would he merge with Chthon? If he merges with them, he becomes them. It's a desperate act do you realize that? When he took a potion of Zom's power, he had trouble controlling the demon. That's the trouble with merging with demonic beings. Lol. Strange absorbed Arioch out of desperation and he became SG not because of choice but rather the consequence of his actions. You're solution to "win" is to venture into Chthon's realm, and merge with the being who's attempting to escape that dimension, then come into the 616 with side being inside and hope to control it's power. 🙄 Doing exactly the opposite thing he was trying to prevent! Wow, let's hope you don't ever get to write a Dr. Strange comic book.
The one who had the three Iron Bound books to beat SG? That Shaman vanished by SG's bolt after reading the spells of the books. Now you're claiming that first world tech (a gun and pym's helmet) is better at defeating a lord of chaos then 3 Iron Bound Books? Lol, that's like saying a gun is better weapon than the Darkhold or the Book of Vishantis.
Lol, Kulan Gath and Vammatar released SG again and the two shamans were killed by him. They pulled out spells including invoking Set's name in their spell and did nothing to SG. The Shaman that used the book also vanish after a bolt of SG hit him. So much for your nonsense about a shaman beating SG. Conan took the Iron Bound Books and climbed up Mt Crom where he threw them into the sky and a light burst caused SG to vanquished once again. Conan came down Mt. Crom where he told the villagers that his eyes could not see amist the outburst but claims it is Crom (who at dawn's time imprisoned SG) beat SG with the Iron Bound Books.
Keep trying because Zom is nothing to SG. Beating an inexperience Strange means nothing. With a thought Sise-Neg could've killed Strange and yet he admitted he would have to waste time to just ATTEMPT to destroy Shuma Gorath. He could've destroyed Strange but would have to attempt to destroy SG. Lol.
🙄 🙄 🙄
Keep trying.
- Let's ignore Arioch's amp
- Sise-Neg said that he would take time just to attempt to destroy SG unlike Strange who he was certain he would destroy with but a thought.
- And apparently a Shaman beat SG totally ignoring that it was actually the Iron Bound Books that was used to imprison him.Strange couldn't even save his master the way he saved his lover so let's not act like Chthon is comparable.
Again, a wall of text with nothing really behind it WWK.
Gorath's "awesome" showings vs ape men, stone age shamans, a geriatric, with his minion harassing mud hut dwellers, are pathetic.
At least Set, Zom, Chthon haven't' stooped that low yet.
Set has gone up against a Cosmic Cube backed by the power of Strange's artifacts and Classic Demogorge himself. The Watchers, fearing his true ascension, set up guardians (Archons) to keep his Serpent Crowns out of his worshipers hands (Secret Avengers 1-4).
A shackled Zom forced Umar with the Flames of Regency to flee. Zom was dangerous enough that Dormammu and Eternity themselves got involved (one shackling him under unknown circumstancdes, the other banishing and imprisoning him). Ultimately it took the LT to put him down. Even shackled, Strange with AO's power couldn't banish/drain/beat him.
All Chthon's low showings are results of being in mortal host bodies. Gorath don't have that excuse.
All you have is braggadocio and hyperbole.
Originally posted by zopzop
Again, a wall of text with nothing really behind it WWK.Gorath's "awesome" showings vs ape men, stone age shamans, a geriatric, with his minion harassing mud hut dwellers, are pathetic.
At least Set, Zom, Chthon haven't' stooped that low yet.
Set has gone up against a Cosmic Cube backed by the power of Strange's artifacts and Classic Demogorge himself. The Watchers, fearing his true ascension, set up guardians (Archons) to keep his Serpent Crowns out of his worshipers hands (Secret Avengers 1-4).
A shackled Zom forced Umar with the Flames of Regency to flee. Zom was dangerous enough that Dormammu and Eternity themselves got involved (one shackling him under unknown circumstancdes, the other banishing and imprisoning him). Ultimately it took the LT to put him down. Even shackled, Strange with AO's power couldn't banish/drain/beat him.
All Chthon's low showings are results of being in mortal host bodies. Gorath don't have that excuse.
All you have is braggadocio and hyperbole.
You do realize it's never even said that Zom and Eternity actually battled, right? But we do know that Dormammu put Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage without Eternity, and then Eternity imprisoned him. It had nothing to do with how powerful Zom was or that Eternity couldn't defeat him. Why did he decide to imprison Zom instead of destroy him? Possibly for the same reason the Living Tribunal decided to banish Zom instead of just destroy him entirely right there on the spot like we all know he could.
The fact that Dormammu was able to shackle Zom at all speaks volumes that he's not near Shuma-Gorath in power.
Also, the fact that Zom couldn't even kill a regular Doctor Strange before the Ancient One imbued him with his power shows he's nowhere near Eternity's level.
And WWK already pointed out how ridiculous your arguments are with Set and Chthon. Shuma's never been defeated by a laser gun :/
Originally posted by CortSether
You do realize it's never even said that Zom and Eternity actually battled, right? But we do know that Dormammu put Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage without Eternity, and then Eternity imprisoned him. It had nothing to do with how powerful Zom was or that Eternity couldn't defeat him. Why did he decide to imprison Zom instead of destroy him? Possibly for the same reason the Living Tribunal decided to banish Zom instead of just destroy him entirely right there on the spot like we all know he could.The fact that Dormammu was able to shackle Zom at all speaks volumes that he's not near Shuma-Gorath in power.
Also, the fact that Zom couldn't even kill a regular Doctor Strange before the Ancient One imbued him with his power shows he's nowhere near Eternity's level.
And WWK already pointed out how ridiculous your arguments are with Set and Chthon. Shuma's never been defeated by a laser gun :/
We don't know HOW Dormmmu shackled Zom, we just know he did. But judging by his on panel appearances, Zom isn't an Einstein. Even so shackled he caused Umar with the Flames of Regency to flee. Even shackled he almost killed Strange with the AO's power. Even though he was chained, Eternity saw him as enough of a threat to at least imprison in a dimension beyond all space/time.
And regarding laser guns, how do we know they wouldn't work on Gorath? I mean he's never really faced technology before, spending all his time harassing ape men, third worlders and geriatrics. He needs to try fighting beings that at least know what electricity is for him to encounter a laser gun, then we'd see how he fares against one.
