Marvel's Most Powerful Demon? Zom vs Shuma Gorath vs Chthon vs Set

Originally posted by zopzop
WWK, the point is, he couldn't "upgrade" himself by absorbing their powers or the power of their artifacts (Darkhold, Serpent Crown), or their minions, or anything..

Since when does Strange absorb power from artifacts? And what minions are you referring too? Most of Chthon and Set's minions pale in comparison to Shuma Gorath's. I'd love to know which minion Strange encountered had enough power to make a difference in his fight against these Elder Gods?

He was totally fugged against Set and Chthon.

So nothing then. Set and Chthon are minion gods compared to Shuma Gorath. SG conquerors countless dimensions while Set and Chthon can't even escape from the hole they dug themselves in. The Strange that beat SG and left with SG's power could've destroyed galaxies by being in the 616.

Against a CHAINED Zom with the AO's power he was just barely holding his own till the LT showed up and zapped Zom.

A younger Strange with AO power barely holding his own against Zom. Zom NEVER beat that Strange at all. One showing and all of a sudden he's more powerful than SG.

Strange owned Gorath and his minions with little, if any, trouble. Even in their own realms. Strange has repeatedly owned Gorath.

So in other words you're going to ignore his upgrades.

Zom had one good showing and never defeated a less experienced Strange.
Inferior versions of Strange didn't want to fight Elder Gods.

This isn't proof of anything. Strange's battle with SG was felt across dimensions causing eerie occurances.

Looking back, all we have regarding Gorath and yes even Zom, is hype, braggadocio, and hyperbole.

Looking back at Gorath, Sise-Neg (nearing the end of his journey) admitted that a fight would Gorath would leave Gorath to drain away much of the magic he'd acquire. Strange after becoming SG needed to burn away much of that power in order to return to the 616, afraid that his presence would wreck galaxies according to his mentor Kaluu. Gorath existed in a dimension that no man had ever ventured too until Strange did, a dimension that would kill lesser beings like Kaluu. He manipulated a Fear Lord to do his bidding against his will. Strange and Kaluu ran from Ghaszaszh Nyirh, an Old One under SG. Various demons served SG, even Sligguth, a spawn of Set.

Here's a list of servants of Shuma Gorath. None of the other's have minions comparable in power.

Arioch
Ghaszaszh Nyirh
Water Element
Nightmare
Kathulos
Kalun Gath
Vammatar
N'Gabthoth
Dagoth
Sligguth

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

Arioch
Ghaszaszh Nyirh
Water Element
Nightmare
Kathulos
Kalun Gath
Vammatar
N'Gabthoth
Dagoth
Sligguth

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
some of these guys are also servants of SET, just saying. didnt shuma gorath use sets serpant crown in Invaders Now?

Already know that. So what's your point? Nightmare, Kathulos, Arioch, Ghaszaszh Nyirh, Water Element, Dagoth, Vammatar, and N'Gabthoth would stomp Kalun Gath, and Sligguth.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Already know that. So what's your point? Nightmare, Kathulos, Arioch, Ghaszaszh Nyirh, Water Element, Dagoth, Vammatar, and N'Gabthoth would stomp Kalun Gath, and Sligguth.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
just saying, but how did shuma gorath get to earth in invaders now?

Spear of Destiny

Originally posted by CortSether
Spear of Destiny

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
whats that

The Spear of Destiny, is the actual spear used by the Roman Centurion to pierce Christ's side during the Crucifixion. According to legend, whomsoever held it controlled the fate of the world.

i dunno i was thinking even mephisto or cyrotakk

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Since when does Strange absorb power from artifacts? And what minions are you referring too? Most of Chthon and Set's minions pale in comparison to Shuma Gorath's. I'd love to know which minion Strange encountered had enough power to make a difference in his fight against these Elder Gods?

So nothing then. Set and Chthon are minion gods compared to Shuma Gorath. SG conquerors countless dimensions while Set and Chthon can't even escape from the hole they dug themselves in. The Strange that beat SG and left with SG's power could've destroyed galaxies by being in the 616.

A younger Strange with AO power barely holding his own against Zom. Zom NEVER beat that Strange at all. One showing and all of a sudden he's more powerful than SG.

So in other words you're going to ignore his upgrades.

Zom had one good showing and never defeated a less experienced Strange.
Inferior versions of Strange didn't want to fight Elder Gods.

This isn't proof of anything. Strange's battle with SG was felt across dimensions causing eerie occurances.

Looking back at Gorath, Sise-Neg (nearing the end of his journey) admitted that a fight would Gorath would leave Gorath to drain away much of the magic he'd acquire. Strange after becoming SG needed to burn away much of that power in order to return to the 616, afraid that his presence would wreck galaxies according to his mentor Kaluu. Gorath existed in a dimension that no man had ever ventured too until Strange did, a dimension that would kill lesser beings like Kaluu. He manipulated a Fear Lord to do his bidding against his will. Strange and Kaluu ran from Ghaszaszh Nyirh, an Old One under SG. Various demons served SG, even Sligguth, a spawn of Set.

Here's a list of servants of Shuma Gorath. None of the other's have minions comparable in power.

Arioch
Ghaszaszh Nyirh
Water Element
Nightmare
Kathulos
Kalun Gath
Vammatar
N'Gabthoth
Dagoth
Sligguth

Again, nothing impressive at all WWK. I'm sorry, I'm not trolling you it's just how it is.

I knew someone was going to bring up that Belasco scan. But in all fairness, Belasco is a mediocre mystic at best. Illyana beat him and she's no Strange. Hell Loki beat her with ONE finger. So if you have a guy that was beaten by someone who later got their face kicked in by Loki using ONE finger, what does that tell you? Belasco was engaging in hyperbole, because there's no way someone who can't even defeat Illyana is shoring up reality because of some cosmic throwdown.

And speaking of minions, here are a few of Set's :

And from Marvel Appendix

Damballah, Dragon of the Moon, Phorcys, Siapep, Sligguth, Yamato-no-Orichi (sons), Ishiti, Tartessus (daughter);
Echidna, Gorgons (Euryale, Medusa, Stheno), Graea, Ophions, Scylla, Zirnitra (grandchildren);
Angerboda, Cerberus, Chimera, Ladon, Lernaean Hydra, Maralith, Nemean Lion (great-grandchildren);
Bolla, Fenris Wolf, Merro, Midgard Serpent, Pegasus, Pressyne, Zmey Gorynych (great-great-grandchildren);
Llyra (wife of Merro);
Drang, Hoarfen, Iceworm, Melior, Melusine, Palatine, Sturm (great-great-great-grandchildren);
Nagala, Yith (great-great-great-great-grandchildren (6th generation descendents));
Children of Ishiti, Dragon Kings of Lemuria, Man-Serpents, Serpent Men, Sirens, Snakes of Many Colors, Wolf Gods of Asgard (descendents)

Way more impressive than SG. By far.

the Midgard Serpant of asgard is also one of sets grandsons, via his mother side

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the Midgard Serpant of asgard is also one of sets grandsons, via his mother side

The Midgard Serpent, Dragon of the Moon, Typhon, and Siapep alone are more than anything SG has as servants/creations.

Siapep was owning Thor so bad, he said "none but Odin could match his power".

Concerning the Midgard Serpent from the Marvel Appendix :

However, this account of a previous Asgard has been cast in some doubt and there is no way to confirm any of this; it is further complicated by the fact that Doctor Strange referred to Jormungand as the spawn of the serpent-god Set. Possibly, Strange was referring to Set being the father of Jormungand in an honorary status or maybe Jormungand is the reincarnation of one of Set's progeny and has the life force of a child of Set. It doesn't look like the matter will be resolved anytime soon. It was in Marvel Team-Up Annual#5 that Doctor Strange stated that Set was the father of the Midgard Serpent.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Midgard Serpent, Dragon of the Moon, Typhon, and Siapep alone are more than anything SG has as servants/creations.

Siapep was owning Thor so bad, he said "none but Odin could match his power".

Concerning the Midgard Serpent from the Marvel Appendix :
[/B]

Arioch and Kathulos trump all of them.

Originally posted by CortSether
Arioch and Kathulos trump all of them.

What have they done ON PANEL not hyperbole or smack talk that justifies this statement? The only thing I saw Arioch do was get shxt stomped by Strange. I'm unfamiliar with Kathulos.

Originally posted by zopzop
What have they done ON PANEL not hyperbole or smack talk that justifies this statement? The only thing I saw Arioch do was get shxt stomped by Strange. I'm unfamiliar with Kathulos.

Arioch wasn't merely hyperbole simply based on the fact that his power gave Strange a large enough boost to stand up to Shuma.

Kathulos the Living Planet negated all of Doctor Strange's magic power so he was just an ordinary human while facing him. It was while in the process of absorbing Doctor Strange that Strange discovered the negation effect didn't work while in the absorption process and he was able to use power from the Cyttorak Crystals to fatally wound Kathulos while he was vulnerable.

Originally posted by CortSether
Arioch wasn't merely hyperbole simply based on the fact that his power gave Strange a large enough boost to stand up to Shuma. [/quote

Ok so nothing on panel of him doing anything noteworthy?

Kathulos the Living Planet negated all of Doctor Strange's magic power so he was just an ordinary human while facing him. It was while in the process of absorbing Doctor Strange that Strange discovered the negation effect didn't work while in the absorption process and he was able to use power from the Cyttorak Crystals to fatally wound Kathulos while he was vulnerable.

I googled around and according the Marvel Appendix, Strange.......attacked it's roots and he died. Lame, very lame.

Originally posted by zopzop
Ok so nothing on panel of him doing anything noteworthy?

I googled around and according the Marvel Appendix, Strange.......attacked it's roots and he died. Lame, very lame.

You mean aside from being able to stand up to Shuma? 🙄

Which wouldn't have worked at all had he not discovered that it was his one weakness. Like any of Set's servants would have discovered that. Kathulos would just negate any of their magic so they have nothing to attack him with.

Originally posted by CortSether
You mean aside from being able to stand up to Shuma? 🙄

Yeah aside from that because some of us dont' find Shuma Gorath that impressive to begin with. So aside from that, there is nothing on Arioch except being owned by Strange?

Which wouldn't have worked at all had he not discovered that it was his one weakness. Like any of Set's servants would have discovered that. Kathulos would just negate any of their magic so they have nothing to attack him with.

Or they could you know, just have destroyed him. The Midgard Serpent alone is large enough to encircle and crush the planet Earth. All this assumes that he could even absorb their magic. Human sorcerers != Gods or the spawn of Gods. See the Blood and Thunder Thor arc for further proof.

Originally posted by zopzop

Yeah aside from that because some of us dont' find Shuma Gorath that impressive to begin with. So aside from that, there is nothing on Arioch except being owned by Strange?

Or they could you know, just have destroyed him. The Midgard Serpent alone is large enough to encircle and crush the planet Earth. All this assumes that he could even absorb their magic. Human sorcerers != Gods or the spawn of Gods. See the Blood and Thunder Thor arc for further proof. [/B]

No. One of Kathulos' specific powers is to negate the abilities of others. That hasn't been contradicted so you can't say it wouldn't work on Set's servants. It's funny that you find every way to put down Shuma his servants' power yet you're trying to make out like the Midgard Serpant is something special :/

The fact is Arioch gave Strange a chance against Shuma-Gorath and Shuma-Gorath was the same entity who Sise-Neg wasn't sure he could destroy, the same who rules hundreds of dimensions, the same who was said cannot die, the same who the Vishanti were unable to defeat, the same who was alluded to being more powerful than the Cancerverse's Galactus Engine, the same who's energy was enough to bust galaxies by being present, the same that made the Ancient One tremble in fear, and the same who Doctor Strange basically admitted that Shuma-Gorath was its most powerful enemy yet and this is at a time when Dormammu was written to be insanely powerful compared to now and also after Strange's encounter with Zom. So the fact that Arioch was able to help Strange fight something with that power says alot about the power he wielded.

Originally posted by CortSether
No. One of Kathulos' specific powers is to negate the abilities of others. That hasn't been contradicted so you can't say it wouldn't work on Set's servants. It's funny that you find every way to put down Shuma his servants' power yet you're trying to make out like the Midgard Serpant is something special :/

The fact is Arioch gave Strange a chance against Shuma-Gorath and Shuma-Gorath was the same entity who Sise-Neg wasn't sure he could destroy, the same who rules hundreds of dimensions, the same who was said cannot die, the same who the Vishanti were unable to defeat, the same who was alluded to being more powerful than the Cancerverse's Galactus Engine, the same who's energy was enough to bust galaxies by being present, the same that made the Ancient One tremble in fear, and the same who Doctor Strange basically admitted that Shuma-Gorath was its most powerful enemy yet and this is at a time when Dormammu was written to be insanely powerful compared to now and also after Strange's encounter with Zom. So the fact that Arioch was able to help Strange fight something with that power says alot about the power he wielded.

That's hyperbole or if we want to be generous, implied power. Nothing on panel. Alluded, is said, or words to that effect tell me we got nothing concrete on our boy Gorath.

The fact that Arioch was defeated in about 4-6 panels tells me he was nothing more than fodder/trash. Let's see Strange pull that garbage on Set, Chthon or an unshackled Zom. Hell let's see him pull these hijinx with Loki, Hela or Pluto, then I'll concede.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's hyperbole or if we want to be generous, implied power. Nothing on panel. [b]Alluded, is said, or words to that effect tell me we got nothing concrete on our boy Gorath.

The fact that Arioch was defeated in about 4-6 panels tells me he was nothing more than fodder/trash. Let's see Strange pull that garbage on Set, Chthon or an unshackled Zom. Hell let's see him pull these hijinx with Loki, Hela or Pluto, then I'll concede. [/B]