Originally posted by OneDumbG0It's amazing how you still argue lies. You say that a WIDE VARIETY OF ENERGY BEAMS have been quantified on panel as meeting or exceeding light speed. This is either craziness or conartistry. There is hardly any showings in the history of ALL comics that have quantified a wide variety of energy beams meeting or exceeding light. If there were then u would have a small point.
Those weren't counter arguments because they're PIS. Like I literally announced before you even posted those scans. Just because I predicted what these awesomely reliable scans of on-panel evidence were going to be BEFORE you got a chance to post them doesn't infuse them with probative value. They're PIS. It's a reasonable generalization because [b](i) energy beams/rays/lasers that clearly have to do with the E-M spectrum like light, photons, x-rays, gamma rays, etc. clearly go at light speed just by their very nature, (ii) a wide variety of energy beams/rays/lasers that have nothing to do with the E-M spectrum OR each other, have already been quantified as meeting/exceeding light speed, e.g., Cyclops' optic blasts, Superman's HV, GL blasts, Iron Man's repulsor rays, Darkseid's Omega Beams, etc., (iii) I haven't been presented on-panel evidence that measures various energy beams/rays/lasers as being far slower than light (barring your laughable attempt to present PIS), and (iv) the concept of "comic book energy" should intrinsically involve the very concept of energy we're familiar with, i.e., the E-M spectrum, which again travels at light speed.And on another note, do you believe that it's reasonable to ignore key words like "ray" or "beam" or "laser," which inherently associate/connect to the concept of light? Did you think the entirety of comics constantly uses this terminology as a complete accident? Or, looking at it from a different angle, have you seen or do you imagine this exchange occurring in a comic:
Captain Mar-Vell: "You may be more powerful! But my photonic blasts go at the speed of light!!! And-because-your-energy-blasts-aren't-specifically-contained-within-the-known-E-M-spectrum-so-accordingly-I-shall-assume-that-they-are-much-slower-than-light... ergo... I have the speed advantage, Titan!"
Thanos: "CURSES!!!111"
In the end, you did not convince me that "energy-blasts-can-generally-be-assumed-to-travel-light-speed" as a concept is unreasonable. Nor did you convince me that the idea is the "stupidest thing in months." In fact, that's exactly the idea that comics generally portray. But I understand you're fine resting your laurels on three instances of PIS. And if relying on PIS justifies your dismissive attitude towards contrary arguments or proof, that's your cup of tea.
"Energy blasts are made of cheetahs." <--- Stupidest thing I've heard in months. And I'm ready to argue that with proof. Might be a slight change of pace. [/B]
Originally posted by Omega VisionNo it isn't. I've been reading comics for many years and the only reference i've seen to a beam other than electromagnetic spectrum of meeting or exceeding light is Superman's HV. I dare anyone in the universe to show me more than 3 other instances of a beam other than the one's I named being stated on panel to meet or exceed the speed of light. It must be an energy beam now and not telepathy.
Okay, whichever side of the debate you're on (I'm leaning toward the don't assume side personally) this is an unequivocally wrong statement.
Originally posted by -Pr-When light goes into that black rubber tube the photons are bouncing around. But to the naked eye, it looks like the entire beam of light is bending/curving if the tube were invisible like Invisible Woman's forcefields.
Except Cyclops' beams aren't like normal light, and should bounce rather than bend.How? You're actually saying that it's his speed as much as if not more than his accuracy that makes him so dangerous?
Yes, and I would say that his aim has as much influence in that as any speed his blasts might do.
If his beams traveled at bullet speed, Cyclops would have a far tougher time overcoming the odds he has faced.
Originally posted by -Pr-As an isolated instance of one comic artist's portrayal of Cyclops using pot-shots of his beams. Similar to how other people have used their beams, e.g., Superman, Majestic and GLs.
One thing i'd say, though (all other arguments aside):How would you explain a blast like this?
Originally posted by h1a8Right. I forgot that the entire basis of this new "cheetah speed" argument revolved around one of your arguments, h1a8.
It's amazing how you still argue lies. You say that a WIDE VARIETY OF ENERGY BEAMS have been quantified on panel as meeting or exceeding light speed. This is either craziness or conartistry. There is hardly any showings in the history of ALL comics that have quantified a wide variety of energy beams meeting or exceeding light. If there were then u would have a small point.
GL blasts, Superman's HV, Cyclops' optic blasts, Darkseid's Omega Beams, Iron Man's repulsor rays were the ones I mentioned off the top of my head. This is a wide variety of energy beams/rays/lasers that have nothing to do with each other, but coincidentally enough, have been specifically quantified on-panel as matching/exceeding light speed. And I haven't seen that kind of wide variety of scans where energy blasts are specifically quantified as going at "cheetah speed" at all. The entire E-M spectrum of known energy also travels at light speed.
And the argument is, whether this coincidence is indicative of a clearly obvious pattern... or, "energy blast default speed = cheetah speed," or apparently, "conartistry."
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
When light goes into that black rubber tube the photons are bouncing around. But to the naked eye, it looks like the entire beam of light is bending/curving if the tube were invisible like Invisible Woman's forcefields.If his beams traveled at bullet speed, Cyclops would have a far tougher time overcoming the odds he has faced. As an isolated instance of one comic artist's portrayal of Cyclops using pot-shots of his beams. Similar to how other people have used their beams, e.g., Superman, Majestic and GLs. Right. I forgot that the entire basis of this new "cheetah speed" argument revolved around one of your arguments, h1a8.
GL blasts, Superman's HV, Cyclops' optic blasts, Darkseid's Omega Beams, Iron Man's repulsor rays were the ones I mentioned off the top of my head. This is a wide variety of energy beams/rays/lasers that have nothing to do with each other, but coincidentally enough, have been specifically quantified on-panel as matching/exceeding light speed. And I haven't seen that kind of wide variety of scans where energy blasts are specifically quantified as going at "cheetah speed" at all. The entire E-M spectrum of known energy also travels at light speed.
And the argument is, whether this coincidence is indicative of a clearly obvious pattern... or, "energy blast default speed = cheetah speed," or apparently, "conartistry."
i never said bullet speed, though.
it's not an isolated incident either.
but i get it. you're trying to argue that all energy blasts are light speed because of your Thor thread. it's ok. i'll leave you be. 😛
Originally posted by -Pr-Right... "cheetah speed," I forgot.
i never said bullet speed, though.it's not an isolated incident either.
And if it's not?
Originally posted by -Pr-Right. I crafted this idea for my Respect Thread. And every poster that's ever used energy blasts as a measure of superspeed was actually a fellow conspirator. Clearly you have only now understood the scale upon which I operate. /cue evil laughter
but i get it. you're trying to argue that all energy blasts are light speed because of your Thor thread. it's ok. i'll leave you be.
I jest. But I'll be just as cheeky and assume that this "cheetah speed" argument is primarily sourced in Superman butt-hurt. Because the old adage of "speed kills" consistently gets stunted by on-panel evidence of superspeed reflexes. And it hurts teh butts when Superman's perennial hypothetical opponents, Surfer and Thor and Thanos, have demonstrated superspeed reflexes and are (because it's reasonable to) permitted that benefit in a hypothetical fight.
On a semi-related tangent, I find this "cheetah speed" argument to be even more dubious when they're not equally applied to Superman fans constantly pointing to his ability to vibrate invisible or intangible as clear evidence of zomgpwnerzcombatsuperspeed. Then again... should I really be surprised?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Right... "cheetah speed," I forgot.And if it's not?Right. I crafted this idea for my Respect Thread. And every poster that's ever used energy blasts as a measure of superspeed was actually a fellow conspirator. Clearly you have only now understood the scale upon which I operate. /cue evil laughter
I jest. But I'll be just as cheeky and assume that this "cheetah speed" argument is primarily sourced in Superman butt-hurt. Because the old adage of "speed kills" consistently gets stunted by on-panel evidence of superspeed reflexes. And it hurts teh butts when Superman's perennial hypothetical opponents, Surfer and Thor and Thanos, have demonstrated superspeed reflexes and are (because it's reasonable to) permitted that benefit in a hypothetical fight.
On a semi-related tangent, I find this "cheetah speed" argument to be even more dubious when they're not equally applied to Superman fans constantly pointing to his ability to vibrate invisible or intangible as clear evidence of zomgpwnerzcombatsuperspeed. Then again... should I really be surprised?
cheetah what? as in DC cheetah?
what do you mean "if". it's not an isolated incident. there are TONS of scans where he's using more than one blast in the same panel. so either he has FTL movements and reflexes, or his blasts aren't lightspeed.
nice attempted-deflection btw. 😛
edit: just to clarify, there are more instances of him using more than one blast on panel than there are instances of people claiming it's light-speed.
Originally posted by -Pr-"Cheetah" as in: "Well clearly the default speed must not be light, and frankly, we cannot concede the notion that default speed should even be bullets since we won't even countenance conceding them having FTB reflexes... but it must be some arbitrary quantification of speed that does nothing to enhance the characters beyond our arbitrarily low quantifications of them... so... let's think of something that's colloquially known as fast... but at the same time really really slow... the speed of... a... cheetah??? Yes. THAT'S. IT. Cheetah speed. This is both fast enough AND slow enough for our arbitrary rationale and transparent purposes. Win!"
cheetah what? as in DC cheetah?
Originally posted by -Pr-Right. Tons. How about we stick with the actual on-panel quantifications here. If they're good enough for "cheetah speed" proponents, h1a8 and Philosophia, they should be good enough for you.
what do you mean "if". it's not an isolated incident. there are TONS of scans where he's using more than one blast in the same panel. so either he has FTL movements and reflexes, or his blasts aren't lightspeed.
Originally posted by -Pr-Just to clarify... are you referring to the Superman butt-hurt comment or the apparent hypocrisy that this "cheetah speed" argument's never been reflected back at Superman's own zomgpwnerzcombatsuperspeed feats of vibrating invisible or intangible? Just to clarify.
nice attempted-deflection btw.edit: just to clarify, there are more instances of him using more than one blast on panel than there are instances of people claiming it's light-speed.
Again... good enough for h1a8 and Philosophia... good enough for you. I'm not attacking Cyclops' character. Him missing is not a slight on his accuracy. People have missed with laser vision powers. People with combat superspeed have missed with laser vision powers. It happens. And I'm not going to repeat the many arguments that you've confronted in the past over this.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Cheetah" as in: "Well clearly the default speed must not be light, and frankly, we cannot concede the notion that default speed should even be bullets since we won't even countenance conceding them having FTB reflexes... but it must be some arbitrary quantification of speed that does nothing to enhance the characters beyond our arbitrarily low quantifications of them... so... let's think of something that's colloquially known as fast... but at the same time really really slow... the speed of... a... cheetah??? Yes. THAT'S. IT. Cheetah speed. This is both fast enough AND slow enough for our arbitrary rationale and transparent purposes. Win!" Right. Tons. How about we stick with the actual on-panel quantifications here. If they're good enough for "cheetah speed" proponents, h1a8 and Philosophia, they should be good enough for you. Just to clarify... are you referring to the Superman butt-hurt comment or the apparent hypocrisy that this "cheetah speed" argument's never been reflected back at Superman's own zomgpwnerzcombatsuperspeed feats of vibrating invisible or intangible? Just to clarify.Again... good enough for h1a8 and Philosophia... good enough for you. I'm not attacking Cyclops' character. Him missing is not a slight on his accuracy. People have missed with laser vision powers. People with combat superspeed have missed with laser vision powers. It happens. And I'm not going to repeat the many arguments that you've confronted in the past over this.
oh. cheetah speed. meh, its not for me. Or are you twisting it some? Be honest.
if you go by the scans and still maintain the blasts are C, then his reflexes and movements would be above it.
I never accused you of attacking Cyclops. I just honestly think it's silly to assume that all energy attacks move at the speed of light based on a couple of statements that aren't exactly consistent.
and no offence, but please refrain from putting me in the same bracket as h1 in the future. thanks.
Originally posted by -Pr-I am always honest half of the time. crackers
oh. cheetah speed. meh, its not for me. Or are you twisting it some? Be honest.
Originally posted by -Pr-Cyclops' reflexes? Based on potshot optic blasts? I think a more reasonable explanation is the artist probably thinking Cyclops can mentally control his blasts and will the beams to be shot like that rather than the beams' release being dependent on the mechanical servos in his visor.
if you go by the scans and still maintain the blasts are C, then his reflexes and movements would be above it.I never accused you of attacking Cyclops. I just honestly think it's silly to assume that all energy attacks move at the speed of light based on a couple of statements that aren't exactly consistent.
It's consistent to think that random energy would share the one consistent property of energy as we know it, i.e., electromagnetic radiation all travels at light speed. It's consistent to accept that whenever energy beams/rays/lasers are quantified, it's light speed or above, no matter how different they are from each other. And it's also consistent when you consider all the other gleeful double-standards and circular arguments I've seen floating around Superman's feats that don't go challenged. But focusing on your particular objection: Cyclops' optic blasts have been quantified as traveling at the speed of light. What's exactly silly about that? Dude accesses an extra-dimensional source of energy through his eyeballs. I don't get your objection here. Superman has missed with his heat vision. And he's super accurate AND he's got combat superspeed. Where's the problem there?
Originally posted by -Pr-You act like association with h1a8's arguments would besmirch the credibility of your arguments. Face it. You're just not even half the poster he is, you jealous little girl, you.
and no offence, but please refrain from putting me in the same bracket as h1 in the future. thanks.
biscuits
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I am [b]always honest half of the time. crackers Cyclops' reflexes? Based on potshot optic blasts? I think a more reasonable explanation is the artist probably thinking Cyclops can mentally control his blasts and will the beams to be shot like that rather than the beams' release being dependent on the mechanical servos in his visor.It's consistent to think that random energy would share the one consistent property of energy as we know it, i.e., electromagnetic radiation all travels at light speed. It's consistent to accept that whenever energy beams/rays/lasers are quantified, it's light speed or above, no matter how different they are from each other. And it's also consistent when you consider all the other gleeful double-standards and circular arguments I've seen floating around Superman's feats that don't go challenged. But focusing on your particular objection: Cyclops' optic blasts have been quantified as traveling at the speed of light. What's exactly silly about that? Dude accesses an extra-dimensional source of energy through his eyeballs. I don't get your objection here. Superman has missed with his heat vision. And he's super accurate AND he's got combat superspeed. Where's the problem there? You act like association with h1a8's arguments would besmirch the credibility of your arguments. Face it. You're just not even half the poster he is, you jealous little girl, you.
biscuits [/B]
The only problem I see is that his blasts are not made of electromagnetic radiation, but concussive blasts of pure kinetic energy.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Which travel at light speed according to on-panel narration. It's as much a "problem" as it is for Superman's heat vision is made of pure heat.Which isn't a problem so long as you arbitrarily choose to ignore that the argument applies to him as well.
I was simply pointing out the flaw in the way your argument was presented. As for me I accept that comic physics will never make sense with real life physics and as such questions such as these are often hard to really answer. The best we can do I suppose in such a situation is to go with what the writer says on-panel whether it fully makes sense or not.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I am [b]always honest half of the time. crackers Cyclops' reflexes? Based on potshot optic blasts? I think a more reasonable explanation is the artist probably thinking Cyclops can mentally control his blasts and will the beams to be shot like that rather than the beams' release being dependent on the mechanical servos in his visor.It's consistent to think that random energy would share the one consistent property of energy as we know it, i.e., electromagnetic radiation all travels at light speed. It's consistent to accept that whenever energy beams/rays/lasers are quantified, it's light speed or above, no matter how different they are from each other. And it's also consistent when you consider all the other gleeful double-standards and circular arguments I've seen floating around Superman's feats that don't go challenged. But focusing on your particular objection: Cyclops' optic blasts have been quantified as traveling at the speed of light. What's exactly silly about that? Dude accesses an extra-dimensional source of energy through his eyeballs. I don't get your objection here. Superman has missed with his heat vision. And he's super accurate AND he's got combat superspeed. Where's the problem there? You act like association with h1a8's arguments would besmirch the credibility of your arguments. Face it. You're just not even half the poster he is, you jealous little girl, you.
biscuits [/B]
😂
cyclops' energy isn't from our universe though. it doesn't necessarily follow all the basic rules of our universe, because such rules don't exist in his universe.
superman missing when his heat vision is a completely different energy to cyclops' is a false comparison imo.
i'm not trying to be rude, but it honestly feels like you're cherry picking statements that are actually the exception rather than the rule. which they are. the servos in his visor argument doesn't hold up either, as he's fought without his visor on more than one occasion.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Those weren't counter arguments because they weren't meant to be counter-arguments, since the validity of your own stance is non-existent, thus no need to counter it. I thought I explained this to you already?
Those weren't counter arguments because they're PIS. Like I literally announced before you even posted those scans. Just because I predicted what these awesomely reliable scans of on-panel evidence were going to be BEFORE you got a chance to post them doesn't infuse them with probative value. They're PIS.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's a reasonable generalization
Originally posted by OneDumbG0And this is where you fail. Again.
[b](iii) I haven't been presented on-panel evidence that measures various energy beams/rays/lasers as being far slower than light (barring your laughable attempt to present PIS), and (iv) the concept of "comic book energy" should intrinsically involve the very concept of energy we're familiar with, i.e., the E-M spectrum, which again travels at light speed.[/B]
You presume that somebody has to prove anything. You presume that just because some sources of energy have been shown to be at/above lightspeed then it means all of them are unless I show examples to prove the contrary. Even a kid from kindergarden would say 'That's silly'. I don't need to show you anything, because your starting point is inaccurate. No matter how much you desperatley want it to be (and you do, apparently - for obvious reasons) you can never - ever apply that idiotic line of thinking for every type of energy presented in comics - for the simple fact that it simply goes against logic, common sense and is just wishful thinking.
You can't prove your stance. Picking up isolated examples of energy like this:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
e.g., Cyclops' optic blasts, Superman's HV, GL blasts, Iron Man's repulsor rays, Darkseid's Omega Beams,
I've said this so many times I find annoying typing it.
And no, an opponent doesn't have to stop mid-attack and explain that his energy blast is lightspeed or above - you desperatley trying to make it seem that my stance is somewhat the illogical one being cute though -- cute as in 'look at that poor puppy trying to climb onto the bed and failing miserably every time' - but there has to be a precedent for that form of energy being lightspeed, either portrayal or statement wise. You can't just go on assuming that random energy X is lightspeed because Superman's heat vision or Cyclops' beams are, for f[i]uck's sake[/i]. 😂
Ah, here it is:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But I'll be just as cheeky and assume that this "cheetah speed" argument is primarily sourced in Superman butt-hurt. Because the old adage of "speed kills" consistently gets stunted by on-panel evidence of superspeed reflexes. And it hurts teh butts when Superman's perennial hypothetical opponents, Surfer and Thor and Thanos, have demonstrated superspeed reflexes and are (because it's reasonable to) permitted that benefit in a hypothetical fight.
Projecting the butt-hurt for your lack of arguments when it comes to your beloved characters like Thor, and saying I'm frustrated because I don't accept what has to be one of the most memorable idiotic things said on this forum? That's amazingly great. Double lulz for the specific examples you just used, after checking the respect thread:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Keep pusing those agendas ODG.
[size=3]He bats away a possessed Iron Man's repulsor rays in Avengers vol. 3 #3:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed22Avengersv303.jpgAnd again bats away ray blasts in a training session in Avengers vol. 3 #23:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed26Avengersv323.jpg
