The Phoenix is beyond both. As confirmed by the Handbook and the feats of the Phoenix Force and its avatars, the Force is multiversal.
Infinity is a universal abstract that taps into the universes ambient energies, the power gem like the other infinity gems tap into the power of the Big Bang and is very much universal.
If an avatar of the Force, one not even wielding its full power (as evidenced by the fact that there were dozens of other empowered avatars present) can manipulate all that is the universe in the palm of her hand, then that avatars power levels are grossly superior to the little abstracts who are aspects of said universe whose atomic structure she manipulated in her palm.
The full Phoenix Force is beyond any universal abstract or artifact.
Originally posted by King Kandy
lol, what's the power gem doing here? By itself it's a joke at this level.
Phoenix wins.
Insane troll logic is fun.
Infinity FTW in a stomp! ... Don't believe the bull shit Phoenix hype yall!
Planetary EMP,
which evidently is enough to shatter the almighty PF! 🙂
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Xorn, killing Jean Grey ... and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself!
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On Panel:
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Beast remembers:
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Bio:
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(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,
this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
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(from WC Phoenix - Jean Grey's official 2008 bio)
"Jean opposed faux Magneto but was killed by a lethal EMP
that shattered the Phoenix Force into Billions of pieces"
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This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion pieces"
Heck, the SHiar has made the almighty Phoenix Force it's ***** as well:
Actually they (Shiar) not only forced the PF's resurrection:
But they also shattered the PF itself into pieces partially due to the "Event Horizon"
as Tenebrous pointed out.
So canonically, the PF has been shattered TWICE!
1. Into Billions of pieces by an EMP at the hands of Xorn.
2. By a Shiar device as well.
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On Panel proof:
Here's the PF again, being shattered, this time by the Shiar:
In fact, Jean Grey was STILL DEAD, since Xorn's EMP!
Here's the Shiar at the end of the issue,
explaining the "Eleka'an Event Horizon" they used on the PF.
The PF survived by escaping at the last moment,
but it was still injured, dying, meh, literally shattered AGAIN!
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Bio confirmation of said on panel proof:
"The Force was later ripped back to reality by a Shiar device
that forcibly reconstituted it. Injured, the Force fell ....
searched for Jean and, finding her DEAD, resurrected her ..."
😆 ... Heck ... even a few heroes are enough to handle the Force itself!
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A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (six in all)
are sent to battle the actual Phoenix Force (host-less) ... this is the real deal.
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"The assembled Heroes are tired & battered,
the Phoenix (no host) is reborn and fresh"
And they're still holding their own! 👆
The Six heroes beat (physically) the Phoenix Force (no host) into and through the Portal:
The Phoenix Force ends up displaced by Four Billion Years:
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(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
"the Heroes were able to drive the FORCE into another portal,
and it emerged Four Billion years in the Past"
Confirmed Again in the 2007 Handbook Bios:
Originally posted by psycho gundam
infinity never got her ass kicked like that
Anytime, anyone, anywhere destroyed a universe, that's Infinity getting her ass kicked.
The Phoenix Force has destroyed the universe a couple of times over. That's kicking Infinity's ass and every other abstract and creature within said universe.
Originally posted by zopzop
Anytime, anyone, anywhere destroyed a universe, that's Infinity getting her ass kicked.The Phoenix Force has destroyed the universe a couple of times over. That's kicking Infinity's ass and every other abstract and creature within said universe.
When did the PF destroy a universe? I've seen the PF get beaten back by the X-Men and Ultraforce. When a planetary attack shatters it into a million pieces, that's like getting beaten up by Infinity's skin cell.
Originally posted by zopzopAnytime, anyone, anywhere destroyed a universe, that's Infinity getting her ass kicked.
Now, if you can re-arrange and/or destroy the 616 Reality, you score big points,
because on panel accounts tells us 616 is the source of all.
Originally posted by zopzopThe Phoenix Force has destroyed the universe a couple of times over. That's kicking Infinity's ass and every other abstract and creature within said universe.
... it's done that twice,
which is enough to supplant it as a universal power concerning "What ifs", 😬
but evidently it's durability is shit ...
which makes it vulnerable to the likes of "Alien starships" (almost got killed by one)
