@galacticstorm: I think the current argument is that you can't use non canon (what Ifs) and call them canon. There are differences in power and there is no guarantee that any dispersement across the multiverse is exactly the same considering there has to be a difference somehow to arrive at the situation that creates the divergence,
Originally posted by rotiart
@galacticstorm: I think the current argument is that you can't use non canon (what Ifs) and call them canon. There are differences in power and there is no guarantee that any dispersement across the multiverse is exactly the same considering there has to be a difference somehow to arrive at the situation that creates the divergence,
Oh i understand that, but that argument is going off in an unnecessary tangent from the main debate.
Zopzop was making the very logical point that you can hardly show a 616 character destroying the universe as it is the reality all of our stories take place in.
However the point was unnecessary when we have as i mentioned Jean Grey performing feats beyond that of mere universal destruction.
Furthermore that was just Jean and not the full Force which should basically just end this debate.
Not only that but if the Phoenix is the Big Bang, then of course universal destruction is within its capabilities.
Also the new handbook makes reference to the old on panel statement which refers to the Phoenix Force as a multiversal power. Which would make sense given the central Phoenix Consciousness that can empower universal scale matter manipulators, located within the multiversal nexus that is the M'Kraan crystal.
Originally posted by zopzop
Maelstrom was going toe to toe vs Thanos with the IG. You make of that what you will. It was an ALTERNATIVE universe in which Quasar failed to stop Maelstrom.
So your point is? Doom with Beyonder's power + IG fought years just to beat 5 Celestials.
What If's are ALTERNATE universes do you understand? The writers obviously believed the PF to be capable of universe level destruction because they wrote it that way not once but twice and from different decades.
What part of Forum rules is it hard for you to understand? I guess the writers feel that Wolverine can slice Thanos' arm off like it was a tree branch huh?
They write it that way because What If's give them the freedom to do whatever the hell they want without impacting the mainstream books. That's why universes can be destroyed, character's power level can fluctuate from mainstream, and characters are sometimes out of character from main stream. You don't understand the concept of What If's huh? The fact that it's an alternate version, how in the world can you say they're the same level in power is beyond me.
HOM Wanda? Please check the Phoenix respect thread and see why this is actually a feat for the PF.
Please don't point me to a thread made by that liar Galacticstorm who's nothing but a Phoenix dickrider and tell me I should see it. I've seen more than enough of his bullshit including trying to claim what happened in X-Men Forever as proof that the Phoenix is superior to the Living Tribunal.
Did you even read the issue? Doom stated they ALL came but in waves. Wave after wave until they all died and the Gems were exhausted of power and destroyed! Their ENTIRE race vs the IG + Beyonder's power.
Yeah, I do. All it says is "five years into the future. They do not stop coming. I do not back down." And it's still the same five Celestials he's fighting.
Odin KNEELED before Arshiem in humiliation. Jean with a SLIVER of the PF blew off Arshiem's hand (the one that judges worlds).
And Thor cracked Exitar's armor, the one that destroys worlds. Thor also put down Rachel with the Phoenix Force. Xorn killed Jean and shattered the Phoenix Force.
Jean using the PF has held an entire universe in the palm of her hands. Infinity gets crushed LITERALLY.
That's a representation of the universe, not the actual universe. She fixed everything by telepathically bringing Scott and Emma together and ending the future in Here Comes Tomorrow. Did you even read that story and understand what's going on?
The PF held back the power of the Neutron Galaxy that's within the M'kran Crystal. Imagine Maelstrom's super massive black hole. That's what Jean saved the universe from.
She stopped that because of her link with the crystal. What part of that is so hard to understand? Next your going to tell me about how Firelord stopped a sun from going nova and that means he can beat Beta Ray Bill.
And I'm STILL waiting for a universal destruction feat not using a plot device in either 616 or any alternate universe.
Because the Phoenix Force performed such a feat in mainstream right? Lol. Infinity destroys it. Have you ever seen Infinity get beaten by Xorn, Thor, or alien ships?
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Have you ever seen Infinity get beaten by Xorn, Thor, or alien ships?
Irrelevant. The full Force has never been beaten by such things. Distracted hosts, or avatars of the Force have, but never the full Phoenix Force.
An appearance of the firebird does NOT equate to an appearance of the full Phoenix Force. The firebird is merely an avatar of the Force as stated many times on panel including the Ultraforce crossover with the alien mothership. 🙂
The firebird is an avatar that lets you know that the actual sentience of the Phoenix Force is in operation as opposed to just a host that is accessing the Forces power.
Now you have been enlightened, your argument is redundant.
Please do better, or dont bother. 😬
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[B]So your point is? Doom with Beyonder's power + IG fought years just to beat 5 Celestials.
It CLEARLY SAYS THEIR ENTIRE RACE. You can read right?
part of Forum rules is it hard for you to understand? I guess the writers feel that Wolverine can slice Thanos' arm off like it was a tree branch huh?They write it that way because What If's give them the freedom to do whatever the hell they want without impacting the mainstream books. That's why universes can be destroyed, character's power level can fluctuate from mainstream, and characters are sometimes out of character from main stream. You don't understand the concept of What If's huh? The fact that it's an alternate version, how in the world can you say they're the same level in power is beyond me.
You just proved my point. Why not show it more often if they have the freedom to do whatever they want in What If/Alternate universes? Please show me universal destruction on panel ANYWHERE not using a plot device. I'm still waiting and you are still beating around the bush.
[qoute]Please don't point me to a thread made by that liar Galacticstorm who's nothing but a Phoenix dickrider and tell me I should see it. I've seen more than enough of his bullshit including trying to claim what happened in X-Men Forever as proof that the Phoenix is superior to the Living Tribunal. [/quote]
How is he a liar?
A) Excalibur's lighthouse was seen as the "breech" in the multiversal Wanda spell. The PF was the one that projected the Lighthouse into EVERY PLANE OF EXISTENCE in creation. It was even stated in an Excalibur issue where Necrom was using it to compress all reality into 616 and rule over it using the SLIVER of the PF he had.
B) It was shown ON PANEL Eternity, Infinity, and the LT himself KNEELING before Jean as the Phoenix.
Yeah, I do. All it says is "five years into the future. They do not stop coming. I do not back down." And it's still the same five Celestials he's fighting.
And he specifically says their ENTIRE race perished. He had the IG and Beyonder's power, he was freaking omniscient. I'll take it he knows what he was talking about.
And Thor cracked Exitar's armor, the one that destroys worlds. Thor also put down Rachel with the Phoenix Force. Xorn killed Jean and shattered the Phoenix Force.
Thor cracking Exitar's armor means jack. Odinforce Destroyer "cut" off a Celestials hand. Jean with a SLIVER blew off Arshiem's hand of judgment and they fled the planet.
Thor putting down Rachel, the most pathetic user of the PF means little. Necrom was destroying SOLAR SYSTEMS with a PF sliver while she was hurling asteroids at him. Her stupidity shouldn't be used against the PF.
Xorn killing Jean :rollseyes:
That's a representation of the universe, not the actual universe. She fixed everything by telepathically bringing Scott and Emma together and ending the future in Here Comes Tomorrow. Did you even read that story and understand what's going on?
One of the PF corps members even states "It's only one universe, just leave it be." Hardly a representation. She held an actual universe in the palm of her hand. Should she have crushed it, there goes all the abstracts INCLUDING Infinity.
She stopped that because of her link with the crystal. What part of that is so hard to understand? Next your going to tell me about how Firelord stopped a sun from going nova and that means he can beat Beta Ray Bill.
Her power held it back. Firelord's stopping of a sun going nova is an awesome feat. And why can't he beat BRB?
Because the Phoenix Force performed such a feat in mainstream right? Lol. Infinity destroys it. Have you ever seen Infinity get beaten by Xorn, Thor, or alien ships?
Explain to me HOW the writers would show the PF destroying 616. We DID see Infinity kneeling before Jean though.
Originally posted by zopzop
It CLEARLY SAYS THEIR ENTIRE RACE. You can read right?
Scans?
You just proved my point. Why not show it more often if they have the freedom to do whatever they want in What If/Alternate universes? Please show me universal destruction on panel ANYWHERE not using a plot device. I'm still waiting and you are still beating around the bush.[qoute]Please don't point me to a thread made by that liar Galacticstorm who's nothing but a Phoenix dickrider and tell me I should see it. I've seen more than enough of his bullshit including trying to claim what happened in X-Men Forever as proof that the Phoenix is superior to the Living Tribunal.
How is he a liar?
A) Excalibur's lighthouse was seen as the "breech" in the multiversal Wanda spell. The PF was the one that projected the Lighthouse into EVERY PLANE OF EXISTENCE in creation. It was even stated in an Excalibur issue where Necrom was using it to compress all reality into 616 and rule over it using the SLIVER of the PF he had.
B) It was shown ON PANEL Eternity, Infinity, and the LT himself KNEELING before Jean as the Phoenix.
And he specifically says their ENTIRE race perished. He had the IG and Beyonder's power, he was freaking omniscient. I'll take it he knows what he was talking about.
Thor cracking Exitar's armor means jack. Odinforce Destroyer "cut" off a Celestials hand. Jean with a SLIVER blew off Arshiem's hand of judgment and they fled the planet.
Thor putting down Rachel, the most pathetic user of the PF means little. Necrom was destroying SOLAR SYSTEMS with a PF sliver while she was hurling asteroids at him. Her stupidity shouldn't be used against the PF.
Xorn killing Jean :rollseyes:
One of the PF corps members even states "It's only one universe, just leave it be." Hardly a representation. She held an actual universe in the palm of her hand. Should she have crushed it, there goes all the abstracts INCLUDING Infinity.
Her power held it back. Firelord's stopping of a sun going nova is an awesome feat. And why can't he beat BRB?
Explain to me HOW the writers would show the PF destroying 616. We DID see Infinity kneeling before Jean though. [/B]
Read up on it noob. Why don't you go through the old treads regarding the Phoenix Force. You get info from a fanboy. None of what've brought is new. It's all been debated before.
You think LT actually bowed before the PF? How much of a noob can you be? This is the most recent. There's a good number of scans proving why LT never bowed before PF. In fact, I brought the scans that showed how much of a liar GS is. Most of the old board members should know this. You obviously don't because you're a noob. The first crappy scans in that thread is brought to you by GS himself. Can't stop loving how he cuts up one pic into two and pass it off as the abstracts bowing before the PF.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[B]Scans?
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4544/doomcelestials8.jpg
Read up on it noob. Why don't you go through the old treads regarding the Phoenix Force. You get info from a fanboy. None of what've brought is new. It's all been debated before.You think LT actually bowed before the PF? How much of a noob can you be? This is the most recent. There's a good number of scans proving why LT never bowed before PF. In fact, I brought the scans that showed how much of a liar GS is. Most of the old board members should know this. You obviously don't because you're a noob. The first crappy scans in that thread is brought to you by GS himself. Can't stop loving how he cuts up one pic into two and pass it off as the abstracts bowing before the PF.
How is he a liar? There are scans in the Respect thread showing this. You have proof that he cut a pic in two to lie?
EDIT : Ah I see now. So it's a vision she was experiencing of the Stranger's plan to dominate the universe. Lame.
Originally posted by zopzop
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4544/doomcelestials8.jpgHow is he a liar? There are scans in the Respect thread showing this. You have proof that he cut a pic in two to lie?
EDIT : Ah I see now. So it's a vision she was experiencing of the Stranger's plan to dominate the universe. Lame.
Ignore the child.
He is one hard pressed individual who takes every opportunity he can to try and gain some meaningless online victory against me.
Half of the time he knows he's talking shit, but as long as its in opposition to me thats the bandwagon he'll be hopping on to 😂
If you look at those posts, they were back in 2005. Before i knew about downloading whole comics. In those days i used to just scan my actual comics and use the jpegs in debates.
People were trying to say that wasnt LT bowing, therefore i cropped the image and showed a closeup of LT bowing.
WWK and his mistress unable to gain a debating victory over me instead attempted to try and discredit me by saying i was selectively editing images to present a false story. Even though common sense would tell anybody that im not the only person in the world with that comic 🙄
He has tried over the years 😆
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ignore the child.He is one hard pressed individual who takes every opportunity he can to try and gain some meaningless online victory against me.
Half of the time he knows he's talking shit, but as long as its in opposition to me thats the bandwagon he'll be hopping on to 😂
If you look at those posts, they were back in 2005. Before i knew about downloading whole comics. In those days i used to just scan my actual comics and use the jpegs in debates.
People were trying to say that wasnt LT bowing, therefore i cropped the image and showed a closeup of LT bowing.
WWK and his mistress unable to gain a debating victory over me instead attempted to try and discredit me by saying i was selectively editing images to present a false story. Even though common sense would tell anybody that im not the only person in the world with that comic 🙄
He has tried over the years 😆
As a serious man myself, I can tell you straight up you take yourself WWAAAAAAAY too seriously.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
As a serious man myself, I can tell you straight up you take yourself WWAAAAAAAY too seriously.
Nah not at all bro.
All laughs and games.
I come on here and have a laugh at the lengths victims like WWK will go to to try and get one over me. 🙂
They get out debated, instead of moving on, they hold grudges over years. Thats why i enjoy coming bk on here from time to time. Its all fun 😄
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nah not at all bro.All laughs and games.
I come on here and have a laugh at the lengths victims like WWK will go to to try and get one over me. 🙂
They get out debated, instead of moving on, they hold grudges over years. Thats why i enjoy coming bk on here from time to time. Its all fun 😄
No he's right. All you have to do is read the posts you've done on this page alone to see how serious you take this stuff. Re read all your posts on this page alone... And if you don't think your posts come off... In the wrong manner... You need to take a Longer step back.
Originally posted by rotiart
No he's right. All you have to do is read the posts you've done on this page alone to see how serious you take this stuff. Re read all your posts on this page alone... And if you don't think your posts come off... In the wrong manner... You need to take a Longer step back.
I don't think he takes it seriously at all. It's not like he's frothing at the mouth and cussing up a storm.
Originally posted by zopzop
I don't think he takes it seriously at all. It's not like he's frothing at the mouth and cussing up a storm.
Thank you. 👆
People need to realise that this is just words and smilies we have here to express ourselves. I assure you i dont take this seriously at all 😆
All the speeches all the digs are all in the name of fun. 😱
Originally posted by zopzop
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4544/doomcelestials8.jpg
It doesn't saw the Celestial race as you claimed. I thought I was missing a page. All it says is the Celestials he fought are no more. There was five Celestials that he fought. And looking through every page, those were they only Celestials displayed. He fought a host, not the entire race.
Arishem, Ziran, Nezarr are the recognizable ones. The other two are hard to tell.
