Sersi Vs Dr Manhatten Vs Silver Surfer

I understand Dr. M lack of feat makes it diff. to gauge the limits of his power set but to use that as an excuse to negate a form of weakness to his character even when said so plausible flaws is not covered within his implied powers is just a very weak argument.. It would be like me saying he couldn't win against Thunderbird because Thunderbird have never encountered an attack of Dr. M type of energy therefore it might not harm him.. If we use that sort of logic, most vs fight in this forum would be a bore cause it well mostly end up as stalemate... Like i say weak..

Originally posted by Uriel005
My point comes in again there is no basis for comparison the forum fight between Manhattan and Surfer cannot be decided based on what showings Manhattan has had. There may not be proof that Manhattan can hurt Surfer but vice versa there is no proof that soul attacks, energy drains or psy effects would do anything to Dr. Manhattan. Hell Watchmen doesn't even clarify if the people in the universe have souls. I mean psychic effects and psychics are proven because Ozzy did kidnap psychics to replicate there abilities for the big mutant things which killed people when they died from the teleport via psychic wave but whether or not it would do anything to John has never been established otherwise Ozzy would have just used one to mind nuke dr. manhattan.

Originally posted by 753
Well, their power levels were close to nothing, specially when compared to real telepaths and astral fighters.

My point is the fact that he didn't even bother with the attempt to effect Manhattan was more of my aim in that statement. Also like I said there is no guarantee telepaths would effect him in the first place as his mind has a peculiar way of perceiving the universe. Also soul effects are a nonentity in Watchmen universe can anyone say that it would actually do anything to Manhattan who is apparently unable to die even after being blasted to component atoms

how does perceving the universe in a peculiar way a defence against tp attack? There are a few char. in marvel incld. Surfer himself see the universe in a diff. way, it does not auto protect him from such attack..

Originally posted by Uriel005
My point is the fact that he didn't even bother with the attempt to effect Manhattan was more of my aim in that statement. Also like I said there is no guarantee telepaths would effect him in the first place as his mind has a peculiar way of perceiving the universe. Also soul effects are a nonentity in Watchmen universe can anyone say that it would actually do anything to Manhattan who is apparently unable to die even after being blasted to component atoms

In a neutral universe it should work. Besides, the astral form things affects soul and mind, the distinction between the 2 isnt very clear either.

It's true that ozzie never tried it, but that doesn't really mean anything here. His world's psychichs just dreamed of future events and things like that, they had o mindraping capacities.

Nobody caresssssss

Sersi wins, blah blah blah.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't believe SS can bring his opponent with him. I believe it is more like he goes there and attacks their mind/soul which is already there. My point is that he can't do it in a fight (and win) because it takes time to do it (as shown). He would leave himself open for attack if he did that. And this is even assuming that I accept the one time feat.

And he DID do it in a fight and win, so I don't really see your reasoning there...

Originally posted by darthgoober
If his opponents consciousness doesn't go with him, it means that Surfer should be able to take out his opponents both quickly and easily since they won't really be fighting back. An opponent trying to attack Surfer's body rather than defend than defend themselves on the astral plane would actually be pretty dumb given Surfer's durability...

And he DID do it in a fight and win, so I don't really see your reasoning there...

Originally posted by darthgoober
If his opponents consciousness doesn't go with him, it means that Surfer should be able to take out his opponents both quickly and easily since they won't really be fighting back. An opponent trying to attack Surfer's body rather than defend than defend themselves on the astral plane would actually be pretty dumb given Surfer's durability...

And he DID do it in a fight and win, so I don't really see your reasoning there...

I defined "fight" already. So he didn't do it in a fight.

Surfer's durability means nothing when there is someone who can destroy him in a small moment.

It's still leaving the battlefield.

It's still a one time feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
I defined "fight" already. So he didn't do it in a fight.

Surfer's durability means nothing when there is someone who can destroy him in a small moment.

It's still leaving the battlefield.

It's still a one time feat.

So, the fact that the Surfer was FIGHTING the entity means that it wasn't done in a fight? LOL.

Dr. M can destroy the Surfer in a small moment based on what feats?

No, it's not.

Irrelevant. It's a feat. Surfer's been able to affect the Ethereal plane before in different ways as well.

Ok wrap it up people this thread is going nowhere and it's just baiting me with constantly popping up. Manhattan doesn't have enough feats to say how he would do against anyone herald level stop trying to prove anything one way or another because there just isn't enough information to say anything about Manhattan other than he pwns just about any street level and meta level character. Thats really the only definitive data on Manhattan.

Let it rest. bangin

I wouldn't say he beats any meta. Reed could give him a run for his money.

Originally posted by rader
I wouldn't say he beats any meta. Reed could give him a run for his money.

Unlike surfer CIS John just disasemble Reed to his molecular components. Even prepped Reed would have a lot of trouble with a teleport and molecular divide.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Unlike surfer CIS John just disasemble Reed to his molecular components.

Yeah, w/o prep, he kills Reed.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Even prepped Reed would have a lot of trouble with a teleport and molecular divide.

Reed prep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. M

Originally posted by h1a8
I defined "fight" already. So he didn't do it in a fight.

Surfer's durability means nothing when there is someone who can destroy him in a small moment.

It's still leaving the battlefield.

It's still a one time feat.

His durability does matter most of the time. Like I've said repeatedly, I'm not saying that it's a good tactic to use against everyone, just one that he can use. If Quicksilver is facing off against someone who's just as fast as him and can turn his arms into blades it would be stupid for QS to rush him at full speed because there's a good chance he'd get impaled, but that doesn't mean that he can't rush opponents in forum fights. Surfer's durability is more than sufficient to withstand a significant beating from anyone in his weightclass, so yeah it's a valid tactic.

Except that it's not. I mean you can't really argue that he's going to be absent from the battlefield but still physically vulnerable, it's got to be one or the other. Surely even you see that...

One time for that specific feat you mean. Surfer's done several things right along the same lines to support his doing it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What definition are you talking about, you mean the "ready, set, go" thing? If so you defined it wrong, check Websters...

His durability does matter most of the time. Like I've said repeatedly, I'm not saying that it's a good tactic to use against everyone, just one that he can use. If Quicksilver is facing off against someone who's just as fast as him and can turn his arms into blades it would be stupid for QS to rush him at full speed because there's a good chance he'd get impaled, but that doesn't mean that he can't rush opponents in forum fights. Surfer's durability is more than sufficient to withstand a significant beating from anyone in his weightclass, so yeah it's a valid tactic.

Except that it's not. I mean you can't really argue that he's going to be absent from the battlefield but still physically vulnerable, it's got to be one or the other. Surely even you see that...

One time for that specific feat you mean. Surfer's done several things right along the same lines to support his doing it.

I define fight as it is relevant to a FORUM FIGHT. The circumstances have to relevant to project the feat to the forum fight. For, example Dr. Strange has been shown to chant spells with full sentences while the other character just sat there and waited (not even attacked) on panel. But in a forum fight against someone who can attack fast this will not happen. Both were fights, according to Webster, but one is not considered a fight in the definition of FORUM FIGHT. The point is SS can't practically do it here since he would leave his body exposed.

Dr. M has at least a tactic that can end Surfer in less than a few seconds, no matter how good SS's durability is.

I'm arguing both because if I'm defeated at the SS winning by going to the Astral plane then I still have the he's leaving the battlefield argument. One or the other is valid (not both necessarily). Either SS body get's destroyed and he beats Dr. M in the Astral plane (at most both lose, at least SS loses) OR he can't leave to go to the Astral Plane as that is self BFR.

I would like to know what other feats support SS just leaving his body on a dime and going to the Astral plane to attack something.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dr. M has at least a tactic that can end Surfer in less than a few seconds, no matter how good SS's durability is.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Ok wrap it up people this thread is going nowhere and it's just baiting me with constantly popping up. Manhattan doesn't have enough feats to say how he would do against anyone herald level stop trying to prove anything one way or another because there just isn't enough information to say anything about Manhattan other than he pwns just about any street level and meta level character. Thats really the only definitive data on Manhattan.

Let it rest. bangin

Originally posted by rader
I wouldn't say he beats any meta. Reed could give him a run for his money.

H1 says because manhattan is bigger hes stronger. The bigger the stronger. Thanos is bigger then superman 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Black bolt z
H1 says because manhattan is bigger hes stronger. The bigger the stronger. Thanos is bigger then superman 😖hifty:

Apoc grows bigger than Dr M. Apoc should stomp.