Sersi Vs Dr Manhatten Vs Silver Surfer

Started by Uriel00526 pages
Uriel005 Senior Member
Originally posted by The Nuul
Ozy cannot even come close to Reeds level or Batman.

Hence closest comparison. Not in how intelligent they are but in how they operate. Also Reed and the others have a bit of an advantage with their awareness of alien tech and god tech. Considering what Ozzy had available to him I'd still say it was pretty damn impressive even with all of those scientists under him. Also Watchmen were behind in timeline so science principles still need to catch up to DC and Marvel standard universe time.

Brutacus Senior Member

People need to reply on feats on this forum and since dr. M doesn´t have that much feat´s.
And since Silver Surfer has greater feats he wins. Game set match.

The Nuul Senior Member
Originally posted by Brutacus
People need to reply on feats on this forum and since dr. M doesn´t have that much feat´s.
And since Silver Surfer has greater feats he wins. Game set match.

Must of us do, its only one or two people that seem to think one feat >>>>>>>>> SS history of feats.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

What's to debate? Surfer wins.

D_Dude1210 Doink!

Originally posted by Uriel005
Not wanking I said that its likely that its not possible for Manhattan to beat surfer I just said that for anyone to make a definitive decision saying that it's impossible for Manhattan to win he would need to have some kind of feats list. Something that shows a weak showing or anything that could be used as an actual method to defeat him. No one here can prove that anything would actually work on him so as I've said before he's a bad character to use.

Also for characters with limited feats. Like the LT the few feats he does have are feats of WTF. Lets hold Thanos in the palm of your hand after he owns Eternity and make him look like a bug. Right that sure doesn't say anything on how LT would do against herald level characters. Most of the others with limited feats usually have something similar on there that indicate their potential. Again John has nothing like it. Also you accuse H1 of trolling which he is but I've yet to see you do anything but demand proof which I have repeatedly say doesn't exist and refuse to in turn come up with proof that what the surfer could do would work on Manhattan. Find some proof for me that Manhattan can be beaten as he is. Some kind of weakness to an energy form/ energy drain, matter manipulation, TP etc etc. because I sure as heck can't find anything one way or another.

What you seem to be missing are the flaws in your argumentation.

Let it go, man.

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer pulled off the tactic while he was losing and still ended up winning because of it, thus he can and DID use it in a fight. See he doesn't need to do it on "ready, set, go" because he could pull it off even if he was already taking a beating(as demonstrated on panel).

And again, I'm not saying the tactic would necessesarily be effective against Dr. M specifically, this whole thing started because you said...

... and were proven wrong but for some reason insist on continuing the arguement.

Surfer did the feat in a non forum fight fashion. Surfer was just sitting there and was allowed to go to the Astral plane. This simply won't happen here period. Doesn't matter if my words or right or wrong. I don't care for semantics. It simply won't happen here. Thus that feat is irrelevant.

Um no... one of those options doesn't have to be valid. His body can still be present on the battlefield without his opponent being able to destroy it before they lose the fight. And yet AGAIN, I'm not arguing that the tactic would be effective against Manhattan(who may or may not be able to combat it), I'm arguing that he can and has used the tactic on panel.

He's taken off to the Astral Plane to help the Puppet Master when he was near death before, supporting his ability to get there and interact with others. Now what has Manhattan done to support his being able to resist an attack from the astral plane?

Near death state maybe the case that helped him get there fast maybe?
With that I concede, as I the only thing I care is that Surfer has no definite way of beating Dr. M.

h1a8 Senior Member
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What's to debate? Surfer wins.

Surfer has no way to beat a being that can multiply, reform from being completely destroyed, teleport, and phase. Thus he can't win.

D_Dude1210 Doink!
Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer has no way to beat a being that can multiply, reform from being completely destroyed, teleport, and phase. Thus he can't win.

Except mebbe for the multitude of ways we've ALREADY kept stating.

h1a8 Senior Member
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Except mebbe for the multitude of ways we've ALREADY kept stating.

I disproved all of them

1. SS can't leave the battlefield, and if he can then Dr. M destoys his body with the teleport tactic. They either both lose or only SS loses

2. Dr. M can phase and teleport and multiply. This prevents many things.

3. Dr. M can reform from total annihilation.

D_Dude1210 Doink!

Originally posted by h1a8
I disproved all of them

1. SS can't leave the battlefield, and if he can then Dr. M destoys his body with the teleport tactic. They either both lose or only SS loses

i) Prove that the Astral form attack is self-BFR
ii) Prove that Dr M even has the power output to register a tickle against the Surfer

Originally posted by h1a8
2. Dr. M can phase and teleport and multiply. This prevents many things.

You cannot prove that he can multiply indefinitely. And what the hell does teleportation have to do with anything? :-/

Originally posted by h1a8
3. Dr. M can reform from total annihilation.

Irrelevant as Surfer's attack is not a physical one.

I've already disproved you on my last 3 posts. Good job ignoring my posts on purpose. Got tired of having your ass handed to you all the time?

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
i) Prove that the Astral form attack is self-BFR
If any part of one's being leaves the battlefield then it is self BFR. This is like stepping out of bounds. Surfer's conscious is more him than his body is. Even if it isn't then it is still part of him. Thus any part leaving is like stepping out of bounds.


ii) Prove that Dr M even has the power output to register a tickle against the Surfer
Dr. M can teleport SS's molecules apart. This doesn't take much power output to do.


You cannot prove that he can multiply indefinitely. And what the hell does teleportation have to do with anything? :-/
Of course he can multiply indefinitely. There's nothing logical stopping him from doing so while there is evidence supporting that he can.


Irrelevant as Surfer's attack is not a physical one.
Yet it is both self BFR and a one time feat. Using your logic, you can't even prove that it would even work on Dr. M.

I've already disproved you on my last 3 posts. Good job ignoring my posts on purpose. Got tired of having your ass handed to you all the time?
I must have miss them. If I did then sorry can you point me to them.

Sr J-Bieb Dead

H1 never ceases to amaze me.

Ambient MAJIN_OVERLORD

Originally posted by h1a8
If any part of one's being leaves the battlefield then it is self BFR. This is like stepping out of bounds. Surfer's conscious is more him than his body is. Even if it isn't then it is still part of him. Thus any part leaving is like stepping out of bounds.

You know Surfer can mind raped without having to take his consciousness to the astral plane. right?

rader Person

Originally posted by h1a8
If any part of one's being leaves the battlefield then it is self BFR. This is like stepping out of bounds. Surfer's conscious is more him than his body is. Even if it isn't then it is still part of him. Thus any part leaving is like stepping out of bounds.

Well it seems the battlefield was never established, and I can't see it counting if Manhattan is in the same place as Surfer
Originally posted by h1a8
Dr. M can teleport SS's molecules apart. This doesn't take much power output to do.

The more powerful you are, the more resistant to matter manipulation you are.
Originally posted by h1a8
Of course he can multiply indefinitely. There's nothing logical stopping him from doing so while there is evidence supporting that he can.

Hasn't EVERYONE else already explained the infinite power fallacy?
Originally posted by h1a8
Yet it is both self BFR and a one time feat. Using your logic, you can't even prove that it would even work on Dr. M.

This would be strawmanning the "Proving a Negative" argument.

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by rader
Well it seems the battlefield was never established, and I can't see it counting if Manhattan is in the same place as Surfer
Battlefield is default if it isn't specified.

The more powerful you are, the more resistant to matter manipulation you are.
SS is not resistant to being teleported.

Hasn't EVERYONE else already explained the infinite power fallacy?
How say's anything about infinity. Indefinite doesn't imply infinite. Infinity can't be achieved by doing finite steps in finite time.

This would be strawmanning the "Proving a Negative" argument.
I personally wasn't using the argument. I was showing him how silly his argument was. Notice I said, "by your logic..."

rader Person

You were "pointing out flaws" in a strawman. That's not the same as pointing out flaws in his logic.

D_Dude1210 Doink!
Originally posted by h1a8
If any part of one's being leaves the battlefield then it is self BFR. This is like stepping out of bounds. Surfer's conscious is more him than his body is. Even if it isn't then it is still part of him. Thus any part leaving is like stepping out of bounds.

LOL. You don't get to make up rules as you go along, u know.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dr. M can teleport SS's molecules apart. This doesn't take much power output to do.

LOL. Just LOL. "This doesn't take much power output to do". Haha. So I guess Ronan and other Matter Manipulators that also has teleportation abilities can just do that to the Surfer righhht?

FYI, Surfer has gotten sliced up into pieces before and just reformed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course he can multiply indefinitely. There's nothing logical stopping him from doing so while there is evidence supporting that he can.

Haha. Then I guess you can provide this so-called evidence here, right?

Originally posted by h1a8
Yet it is both self BFR and a one time feat. Using your logic, you can't even prove that it would even work on Dr. M.

Making up rules as you go along doesn't make your right, you know?

It's worked on far more powerful creatures in the past. Dr M has shown NO showings of being able to defend in the astral plane whatsoever. Ravanous has never been attacked psychically, do we assume that mental attacks won't work on him?

Originally posted by h1a8
I must have miss them. If I did then sorry can you point me to them.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=539494&pagenumber=14

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
LOL. You don't get to make up rules as you go along, u know.
I didn't make up the rules. It is understood. If any part of someone leaves the battlefield then it is self bfr.


LOL. Just LOL. "This doesn't take much power output to do". Haha. So I guess Ronan and other Matter Manipulators that also has teleportation abilities can just do that to the Surfer righhht?
Not showing the ability doesn't mean they can't do it. The writer probably didn't think of that.

FYI, Surfer has gotten sliced up into pieces before and just reformed.
Yes but it wasn't his brain nor was it at the molecular level. It also was a one time crazy feat as well.


Haha. Then I guess you can provide this so-called evidence here, right?
The evidence that supports that he can is
1. His ability to reform from outside energy (he knows his exact makeup)
2. His ability to make others of himself from outside energy (again he knows his exact makeup)
3. His saying in the end that he will leave Earth and make life elsewhere.
4. His clones can make clones.


Making up rules as you go along doesn't make your right, you know?

It's worked on far more powerful creatures in the past. Dr M has shown NO showings of being able to defend in the astral plane whatsoever. Ravanous has never been attacked psychically, do we assume that mental attacks won't work on him?

My point was that I was using your faulty 'we don't have proof argument'. That is how you attacked my argument. You claiming that I am not allowed to infer when you can. This is hypocritical.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=539494&pagenumber=14
What posts are u referring to? I'm pretty sure I addressed all the relevant stuff.

Ambient MAJIN_OVERLORD

Originally posted by h1a8
If any part of one's being leaves the battlefield then it is self BFR. This is like stepping out of bounds. Surfer's conscious is more him than his body is. Even if it isn't then it is still part of him. Thus any part leaving is like stepping out of bounds.

http://img50.imageshack.us/i/silversurferv3144p14ne7.jpg/

like i said he does not need to be in the astral plane to affect his consciousness..

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes but it wasn't his brain nor was it at the molecular level. It also was a one time crazy feat as well.

he reformed from this one too..

http://img70.imageshack.us/i/unilord2eb3.jpg/

thats more x than i can say for Dr. M..

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by Ambient
http://img50.imageshack.us/i/silversurferv3144p14ne7.jpg/

like i said he does not need to be in the astral plane to affect his consciousness..

That doesn't prove he can affect being's consciousness. He can't even do anything like what he claimed to be able do to Thor or other beings.

he reformed from this one too..

http://img70.imageshack.us/i/unilord2eb3.jpg/

thats more x than i can say for Dr. M..

That's called PIS.