(shadowland)Daredevil vs Wolverine(demon)

Originally posted by King Castle
you are claiming X-23 is the better skilled fighter and that reason alone why she won not that the other was holding back out of compassion.

Originally posted by King Castle
you take cis into account logan is massively holding back compared to how he fights others.

Logan fights different with enemies then how he fights heroes let alone family.

X-23 snt the better skilled fighter nor could she win in a forum fight.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Blue Marvel and Thor throw down and trade a few punches. Thor steps back, and throws Mjolnir at Blue Marvel's head. Blue Marvel dodges it and stands with his hands at his hips pontificating about his speed and how Thor can't win the fight. Mjolnir smashes him in the back of the head on its return trip and he's so stunned that a follow-up blow lays him out.

Blue Marvel wasn't serious about fighting and retracted his fists and wasn't attacking or fighting back? You're going to pretend that it was a non-fight and Blue Marvel never lost? It's not Thor's fault that Blue Marvel didn't figure out what was going on until it was too late. And here, it isn't Laura's fault either with Wolverine.

I'm sorry that Wolverine got taken by surprise. That doesn't excuse the fact that he lost the fight. Taking the time for typical superhero banter during a fight =/= holding back.

Don't be so obtuse.

"If I were in a gunfight I wouldnt just stand there half of the fight letting my opponent shoot me in the legs and throat. Nor would I drop my gun or SLAP my opponent instead of shooting him when I get the opportunity. And I sure wouldnt go "C'mone man! Enough already!" while he's shooting me in the face... " But if i DID ALL THAT that sure as hell wouldnt establish my enemy's superiority over me.

X23 threw few dozens attacks. Logan threw one and didnt even attempt to throw any other attacks when he had the chance and pretty much willingly "dropped" his weapons. Logan, was holding back, she wasn't. Would never be the case in a vs forum fight.

^ It's a hypothetical situation that illustrates your transparent attempts to paint the fight as anything else other than X-23 beating Wolverine in a fight. Apparently, if Blue Marvel ever engages in typical superhero banter or lowers his fists once during a fight... he is holding back and never loses from then on.

Typical superhero banter =/= Logan holding back. Wolverine retracting his claws by the time he was already beat =/= Logan holding back.

And Laura managing to land more blows than Wolverine = Logan holding back? Nice circular argument. Trying to prove that Wolverine was holding back before he was bled out by pointing out that he was holding back: weak-sauce. And Wolverine not going balls-to-the-wall to his most vicious limits possible = Logan isn't in a fight so technically he can't win or lose? Dumb-sauce.

the argument really comes down to who can replicate wolverines evasive maneuver before being cut, one i throw out there is spiderman.

but, i dont see Daredevil or Captain America(no shield) able to do the same.

who could legitametly block and grab logan's attacks in h2h?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It's a hypothetical. And it completely reveals your transparent attempts to paint the fight as anything else other than X-23 beating Wolverine in a fight.

Typical superhero banter =/= Logan holding back. Wolverine retracting his claws by the time he was already beat =/= Logan holding back. Laura managing to land more blows than Wolverine =/= Logan holding back.

Nice circular arguments. Trying to prove that Wolverine was holding back before he was bled out by pointing out that he was holding back is weak-sauce.

Logan's typical banter = "I'm gonna gut you, bub!" or sometimes "RAAAAAGH!!!!" when he's slicing people left and right halfa dozen swipes a second. NOT "whats wrong with you kid?" or "we dont have to do this" or "knock it off". If you honestly believe that it is in character for Wolverine to retract claws and stop fighting once he starts losing i have to question your knowledge about the character.

Weak-sauce is your interpretation of the fight.

We have Logan trying to convince her to stop the fight - you say its his typical banter.
We have Logan retract his claws when he could've been stabbing her- you say he did it because he gave up.
We have Logan only throwing one attack and refusing to throw any more- you say he was going all out and couldnt throw more than one.😬
Weak-sauce?

Him holing back shouldt be even a debate. It's clear to pretty much everyone here.

Originally posted by Badabing
Then why did you make the thread? durpalm facepalm

Originally posted by SamZED
What exactly is hypocritical about my post?

Logan's typical banter = "I'm gonna gut you, bub!" or sometimes "RAAAAAGH!!!!" when he's slicing people left and right halfa dozen swipes a second. NOT "whats wrong with you kid?" or "we dont have to do this" or "knock it off". If you honestly believe that it is in character for Wolverine to retract claws and stop fighting once he starts losing i have to question your knowledge about the character.

Weak-sauce is your interpretation of the fight.

We have Logan trying to convince her to stop the fight - you say its his typical banter.
We have Logan retract his claws when he could've been stabbing her- you say he did it because he gave up.
We have Logan only throwing one attack and refusing to throw any more- you say he was going all out and couldnt throw more than one.😬
Weak-sauce?

That's just Wolverine being beaten in a fight before he could throw out more attacks.

Originally posted by SamZED
Him holing back shouldt be even a debate. It's clear to pretty much everyone here.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

compare the fight with Luara with what scans of Logan's brain pattern being in a down and dirty and then say he was fighting to the best of his ability let alone at his normal or average showings.

^ Apparently, his olympic gymnast gold medal routine-equivalent prowess coupled with beating four chess computers wasn't enough to figure out in time that Laura had already beat him by the time Wolverine slapped her away.

what about when he killed shingen and disarmed the angel of death fighting three to one?

or when he fought lady deathstrike and sabretooth b4 the hunter in darkness showed up to help, or when he fought Vermin and bloodscream or when he fought lady D and Psylocke?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486007&pagenumber=20
you seriously being disingenuous to believe logan was fighting to the best of his ability with X-23 or that she is capable of beating him with no outside factors..

logan was not trying to fight back or kill her big difference in his abilities in a high stake battle.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]1) Wolverine being bewildered that Laura is retracting her claws and is throwing dirt on him =/= Wolverine holding back.
2) Wolverine trying to figure out what Laura is doing =/= Wolverine holding back.
3) Wolverine overconfidently chastizing her fighting methods with typical superhero banter =/= Wolverine holding back.
4) Wolverine being beaten before he realized it =/= Wolverine holding back.
5) Wolverine being beaten before he could throw out more attacks =/= Wolverine holding back.

That's just Wolverine being beaten in a fight before he could throw out more attacks.

The only thing clear here, is somehow... someway... Wolverine didn't get beat by X-23 here: [/B]

And 6) you suggesting that Logan going all out couldn't throw more than 1 attack in 9 pages of the fight = some kind of bias. Not sure if it's hatred for Logan or love for Laura. Eitherway, you're wrong here, man. You have two other people who know Logan's character tell you that's NOT how he fights going all out. Hence that's NOT how the fight would go in a forum.

Originally posted by King Castle
what about when he killed shingen and disarmed the angel of death fighting three to one?
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5485/azraelshogun7vy3.jpg

or when he fought lady deathstrike and sabretooth b4 the hunter in darkness showed up to help, or when he fought Vermin and bloodscream or when he fought lady D and Psylocke?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486007&pagenumber=20
you seriously being disingenuous to believe logan was fighting to the best of his ability with X-23 or that she is capable of beating him with no outside factors..

logan was not trying to fight back or kill her big difference in his abilities in a high stake battle.

Wolverine going balls-to-the-wall in his most vicious and perfectly balanced demonstration of skill and ferocity ever on-panel isn't a prerequisite to him being in a fight, much less winning/losing said fight. Thor fighting Gladiator and not going balls-to-the-wall with god-blasts and soul sucks and planetary-scale blows every second means Thor wasn't actually fighting Gladiator so he can technically never lose?

Acting like Wolverine wasn't fighting back when Laura had already beaten him = dumb-sauce. This is a classic instance of being "knocked out before hitting the mat." And no amount of prevarications changes that Wolverine lost. It was one fight. It's not the end of the world.

Originally posted by SamZED
1) Logan only doing the defence without even popping out his claws for 4 entire pages = Logan holding back.

Originally posted by SamZED
2) Logan saying "cut it out", "enough, kid", "we dont have to do this" in attempt to convince her to stop fighting suggest he didnt want to fight at all. And yes = Logan holding back.

Originally posted by SamZED
3) Logan retracting his claws after throwing [B]ONLY. ONE. SINGLE. ATTACK. IN 9 frikkin pages of the fight = Logan holding back. All the proof you could possibly need. But there's also...[/b]

Originally posted by SamZED
4) Logan not taking the opportunity to gut her = Logan holding back.

Originally posted by SamZED
5) Logan fighting a family member or friend = holding back by default.

Originally posted by SamZED
And 6) you suggesting that Logan going all out couldn't throw more than 1 attack in 9 pages of the fight = some kind of bias. Not sure if it's hatred for Logan or love for Laura. Eitherway, you're wrong here, man. You have two other people who know Logan's character tell you that's NOT how he fights going all out. Hence that's NOT how the fight would go in a forum.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He had already healed by then. Nice straw-man. We both know the fight only started by the fourth page.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

We've both said as much. Stop pretending like it didn't. That's Logan being foolish enough to think that Laura isn't fighting effectively.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

After all, why would she retract her own claws and throw dirt at him? He found out too late.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

He retracted them after he was beaten.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

By the time he slapped her away, he had bled out too much to keep up with Laura. It's not Laura's fault that she beat him so fast that he only got one good attack in. Laura was just that clever.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Logan not gutting her before he lost the fight =/= Logan refused to gut her.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

What a transparent projection. Gimme a break. Going all out =/= prerequisite to being in a fight.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I'm sorry your sh1tty straw-mans don't change the fact that Wolverine got into a fight and lost.

Laura was going all out, Logan was barely fighting. So he lost.

Anyway, I'll reply for your next post tomorrow. It's getting late. But please remember this -
3) Logan retracting his claws after throwing ONLY. ONE. SINGLE. ATTACK. IN 9 frikkin pages of the fight = Logan holding back. All the proof you could possibly need.

Originally posted by SamZED
What you realy meant to say is - by the fourth page Logan actually made ONE single attack. That was the only time he threw an attack at all, he didnt try later even though he could've. While X was fighting the whole time starting with page # uno.

Originally posted by SamZED
Why would he think that? More importantly, how saying "cut it out" or "stop" means he's being confident? It only means he doesnt want to fight. And no, it's NOTHING like his usual banter.

Originally posted by SamZED
Because she was using the durt so his wounds wont heal and dint need claws at that particular second but popped them out a second later? While Logan retracted them and was just standing there. And didnt pop em out later when she did.

Originally posted by SamZED
Now you're speculating. He wasnt beaten, he was standing there and was just fine but NOT fighting even though he COULD'VE. Logan fought with few dozen bullets in his chest, he fought while being on fire and fought with blades and arrows sticking out of his back and neck. But here he gets some dirt in his cuts, suddenly retracts his claws and surrernders because he's beaten? Seriosuly, man???

Originally posted by SamZED
Again, argument built on speculation. "bled out" He was standing there and wasnt showing any signs of losing his counciousness or even being that hurt. He was well capable of fighting but didn't. You suggesting in all 9 pages while she was jumping around, grabbing dirt etc he couldnt throw more than one attack if he wanted to is.. not even funny.

Logan not gutting her when he had the chance = holding back.

Right. Logan clearly had a chance to gut her just because. Nice circular argument.

Originally posted by SamZED
lol really? So there's no difference between going all out and holding back? Let me get this straight, you believe that in an all out fight the RHINO would be beating the crap outta Silver Surfer for 10 whole minutes before Surfer finally wins BECAUSE that's WHAT happened in their fight where Surfer was holding back big time? That's the kind of logic you're using.

Originally posted by SamZED
Ugh.. Your entire argument in one sentence - "screw context, Logan lost, the rest doesnt matter, even if he wasnt fighting at all".
Ang going by this logic - JJJ > Spider-man, Rhino = Silver Surfer, and Aunt May > Vulture.

Laura was going all out, Logan was barely fighting. So he lost.

Logan was barely fighting before he decided to fight and was barely fighting after he lost the fight. Get over your bleeding butt-hurt. Logan did.

Thor hasn't god-blasted in at least 90% of his fights. That must mean he was never actually fighting in 90% of his fights. Therefore, 90% of his fights don't actually count as fights. So... he never lost any of those non-fights... because he wasn't actually fighting.

WTF.

by your logic DD beating spidey in comics translates to a legitimate win.

^ Here's a suggestion for you as a change of pace: speak English and make sense.

In the meantime, I love this argument:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor hasn't god-blasted in at least 90% of his fights. That must mean he was never actually fighting in 90% of his fights. Therefore, 90% of his fights don't actually count as fights. So... he never lost any of those non-fights... because he wasn't actually fighting.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Here's a suggestion for you as a change of pace: speak English and make sense.

In the meantime, I love this argument:

my statement stands.

^ by your logic Wolverine wins against Thanos

Y'see? I can make blanket statements without providing any context or making any references with which to merit actual discussion. I'm not a mind-reader. And I shouldn't have to lay out a red carpet and invite you to explain your bald assertions or engage in guessing-game exercises trying to figure out what the hell it is you're trying to say.

But if that's your expectation, fine. My statement stands too.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman is technically not fighting unless he is T-Vo'ing and super-whistling with planetary-scale heat vision and moon-busting punches while vibrating intangible all in a single nanosecond? Weak-sauce.

oh he's in a fight, but the question remains is he fighting to the best of his ability? ESPECIALLY when forum battles are concerend. Ie a situation when one combatant WONT be trying o reason with the other..

i always assumed fighting to kill at the best of your ability = going all out. With a straite face, did that fight with x-23 look like a Wolverine going all out? 😕