Originally posted by OneDumbG0I never argued this. Thor can swing the hammer at twice the speed of light (as stated he can). But it takes time to accelerate to that speed, he can't achieve it instantly. Also the hammer absorbs energy like a sponge, thus making him not having to rotate it as fast as if it didn't. But this is irrelevant here. What does Thor have to do with anything?
Great. You've also argued in the past that Thor must rotate Mjolnir many times before he can block stuff like that. So since he does rotate it many times, he must be moving at FTL speeds.
Thor has never blocked a light speed attack and got pummel with ordinary slower attacks in the same breath. Neither has Daredevil.
By your own standards, of course. Thor's blocked heat vision and laser vision in the same breath as well. I don't think the author meant that Superman's punch assault was in fact, faster than his heat vision. I still don't see it. Because I see Punisher shoot Daredevil all the time, missing him, and then following up with a punch. Punisher's punch is faster than Punisher's bullets? Only if you wanted to be an idiot about it.
Superman don't have to move anywhere near the speed of light to combo SS to ko. Hell Thanos did it and he's slower and weaker (by feats) than Superman. If Superman hits SS very hard then SS will be stunned for at least some seconds. Superman just needs to hit him again before those few seconds are up. This would be an eternity to Superman to land the next blow.
I understand your entire combo-to-ko theory hinges on Superman having incredible FTL blitz speeds. I also understand that you've exhausted your search for any evidence that would support that. I also can't help but point out that this laffable non-feat is the best you can do. Superman ain't Flash. Not even close.
Has SS vibrated through a very very fast attack (like DD's punch)? Has SS traveled any significant distance from a dead start in a microsecond? Has SS exceeded the speed of light after traveling the first 3 meters? The answer is NO. Superman has done these things and thus he is faster in traveling and moving speed (what's the difference?) than SS.
Because you like to say wrong things. Surfer is faster from a dead-start in traveling speed.
Yes they flew to Rao FTL but when they got there they slowed down (hell Superman would have been weakened from the kryptonite alone). They needed to slow down so that Superboy prime can get some serious exposure to the red sun. Superboy prime even said complete sentences on the way from krypton (the rocks) to the Sun. Oa was just a few miles away as shown in the panel. Superboy still has powers (just weakened) after they landed. If Superman was completely depowered he wouldn't have even hurt Superboy prime.
They were flying from Earth to Oa to Krypton. Yeah... that's many times FTL speeds. I understand you're ironically trying to lowball their traveling speeds to reverse-inflate Superman's red sun radiation durability but two stupids don't create one smart. Superman being exposed but an instant to Rao is probably what saved him.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Actually, my point was that I was basing my stance OFF FEATS and not opinion.
💃 💃
I said false things because of feats I didn't know about before they came to light.
Since I'm bored and feeling a bit cocky, I figured I'd go ahead and see how many different ways I could kick Supes's ass in this thread...
Using Red Sun
1. Decapitation via Red Sun charged surfboard.
2. Simultaneous blasts of red sun and generic energy.
3. “Black hole blast” using red sun energy
Using internal energy manipulation
4. Drain all the energy in his body, upto and including the electrical signals going through his nervous system.
5. Throw his internal energies out of phase.
6. Transmute his internal energies into another energy type.
Using K-nite
7. Lots of K-nite blasts
8. Turn his blood to k-nite
Using BFR
9. Temporal BFR into the past or future
10. Teleport him into the middle of VY Canus Majoris
Using external transmutation
11. Stick him in an “Adamantium Maiden” with K-nite spikes inside
12. Alter the properties of his costume so the fabric absorbs solar energy and stick his hands and head inside adamantium boxes.
13. Change his cape to gold K-nite
14. Phase him into a solid adamantium cube
Using the truly exotic
15. Warp space so each half of his body flies in opposite directions
16. Use chronal energy to rapidly age him
Using the not so exotic
17. Unload on him with repeated “black hole blasts” while keeping my distance via speed, force fields, etc..
And before anyone starts talking about the amount of time it would take to do any of that, with Surfer's powers all I'd have to do is have my body continuously give off red sun radiation so that Supes would be screwed if he even tried to engauge in a h2h fight. Point being, Supes loses this thread... and I mean every time.
Originally posted by darthgoober1. Won't work because Superman doesn't get depowered that fast. Superman would pop SS before the board can hit him. Superman can dodge or vibrate through the board.
Since I'm bored and feeling a bit cocky, I figured I'd go ahead and see how many different ways I could kick Supes's ass in this thread...[B]Using Red Sun
1. Decapitation via Red Sun charged surfboard.
2. Simultaneous blasts of red sun and generic energy.
3. “Black hole blast” using red sun energy[/B]
2. Won't work because Superman would dodge the blasts or simply pop SS before he shoots the blasts.
3. Won't work since SS won't have enough time to pull that off. I don't even know what that is either.
4. SS can't drain Superman. Even if he could, Superman would pop him before or while he attempts it.
[B]Using internal energy manipulation
4. Drain all the energy in his body, upto and including the electrical signals going through his nervous system.
5. Throw his internal energies out of phase.
6. Transmute his internal energies into another energy type. [/B]
5. SS can't do that to Superman.
6. SS can't do that to Superman.
7. SS don't know what K-nite is made of and neither do any one of us.[B]Using K-nite
7. Lots of K-nite blasts
8. Turn his blood to k-nite[/B]
9. SS can't do that period (too rare) and Superman will pop him.
[B]Using BFR
9. Temporal BFR into the past or future
10. Teleport him into the middle of VY Canus Majoris [/B]
11. SS can't make Adamantium and won't have time to try.
[B]Using external transmutation
11. Stick him in an “Adamantium Maiden” with K-nite spikes inside
12. Alter the properties of his costume so the fabric absorbs solar energy and stick his hands and head inside adamantium boxes.
13. Change his cape to gold K-nite
14. Phase him into a solid adamantium cube[/B]
15. SS can't do that either. 16. SS can't do that either.
[B]Using the truly exotic
15. Warp space so each half of his body flies in opposite directions
16. Use chronal energy to rapidly age him[/B]
What's a black hole blast? Superman is faster and will pop SS.
[B]Using the not so exotic
17. Unload on him with repeated “black hole blasts” while keeping my distance via speed, force fields, etc..[/B]
Superman doesn't get depowered from red sun instantly. He will pop SS, assuming SS can even radiate red sun radiation omnidirectional.
And before anyone starts talking about the amount of time it would take to do any of that, with Surfer's powers all I'd have to do is have my body continuously give off red sun radiation so that Supes would be screwed if he even tried to engauge in a h2h fight. Point being, Supes loses this thread... and I mean every time.
Superman can win at least a split by popping SS at his full speed from a dead start.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Won't work because Superman doesn't get depowered that fast. Superman would pop SS before the board can hit him. Superman can dodge or vibrate through the board.2. Won't work because Superman would dodge the blasts or simply pop SS before he shoots the blasts.
3. Won't work since SS won't have enough time to pull that off. I don't even know what that is either.
1. Sure he does.
2. Sure it will cause Supes can’t dodge them all.
3. Sure he will, and it’s a blast that’s powerful enough to create a black hole as a side effect(so something like a nova or a supernova).
Originally posted by h1a8
4. SS can't drain Superman. Even if he could, Superman would pop him before or while he attempts it.5. SS can't do that to Superman.
6. SS can't do that to Superman.
5. Sure he can.
6. Sure he can.
Originally posted by h1a8
7. SS don't know what K-nite is made of and neither do any one of us.
8. Surfer can't do that to Superman.
Originally posted by h1a8
9. SS can't do that period (too rare) and Superman will pop him.
10. SS can't do that either (too rare).
Originally posted by h1a8
11. SS can't make Adamantium and won't have time to try.
12. SS can't do that to Superman either.
13. SS can't do that either (doesn't know what it's made of and don't have time to do it either).
Originally posted by h1a8
15. SS can't do that either.
16. SS can't do that either.
Originally posted by h1a8
What's a black hole blast? Superman is faster and will pop SS.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman doesn't get depowered from red sun instantly. He will pop SS, assuming SS can even radiate red sun radiation omnidirectional.Superman can win at least a split by popping SS at his full speed from a dead start.
Originally posted by h1a8Apparently he can achieve that speed faster than light speed attacks according to you. After all, he's blocked Gladiator's and Count Nefaria's heat/laser vision with it. Fact is, when he's deflected light speed attacks with a whirling shield, Mjolnir is already spinning around immensely fast. Which must mean that Thor spun it around several times at the very least. WHich must mean, according to you, that Thor did all this before the light speed attack reached his person. Making his perception and arm movements FTL by a fair margin (since there's no way that he telegraphed the blast according to your standards):
I never argued this. Thor can swing the hammer at twice the speed of light (as stated he can). But it takes time to accelerate to that speed, he can't achieve it instantly. Also the hammer absorbs energy like a sponge, thus making him not having to rotate it as fast as if it didn't. But this is irrelevant here. What does Thor have to do with anything?
Let's face it, characters like Thor have every reason to do with what you're arguing. Because for whatever reason... you're giving this random schlub character FTL reflexes for blocking Superman's HV with his hand... but you won't give Thor FTL reflexes for blocking/dodging Gladiator's and Count Nefaria's heat/laser laser vision not just with Mjolnir... but where he has to build up speed by revolving Mjolnir dozens of times to form that spinning shield of his.
What an atrocious double-standard. Not uncommon though. I see it all the time from many an ignorant poster.
Originally posted by h1a8Don't set yourself up for such nonsensical positions. Spiderman/Daredevil/Cap/Batman/Robin and every other street-leveler has dodged bullets and been tagged by punches in mid-quip and Thor/Hal/Surfer/Darkseid have deflected energy attacks and been tagged by punches in mid-pontification many a time.
Thor has never blocked a light speed attack and got pummel with ordinary slower attacks in the same breath. Neither has Daredevil.
Originally posted by h1a8Shallow and vapid 5-yr old argument is shallow and vapid and 5-yr old.
SupermanSurfer don't have to move anywhere near the speed of light to comboSSSuperman to ko. HellThanosDarkseid did it and he's slower and weaker (by feats) than Superman. IfSuperman hits SSSurfer blasts Supes very hard thenSSSupes will be stunned for at least some seconds.SupermanSurfer just needs to hit him again before those few seconds are up. This would be an eternity toSupermanSurfer to land the nextblowblast.
Originally posted by h1a8DD's attack is very fast? So is Hulk's. And I'm pretty positive that Surfer has turned intangible through energy attacks. kinda
Has SS vibrated through a very very fast attack (like DD's punch)? Has SS traveled any significant distance from a dead start in a microsecond? Has SS exceeded the speed of light after traveling the first 3 meters? The answer is NO. Superman has done these things and thus he is faster in traveling and moving speed (what's the difference?) than SS.
Surfer traveled half a million light years in less than seconds. I'm pretty sure that isn't even his best dead-start traveling speed feat. Calculate that.
Originally posted by h1a8Of course, they were speeding in far of excess of FTL speeds... but slowed down right when they got to Rao. Right. It never amazes me how retarded people are willing to make a comic or a character look just to aggrandize/excuse a single showing within a comic. SUperman hurt Superboy Prime because they were both depowered. And regardless, Superman can hurt Superboy Prime even if neither of them are depowered.
Yes they flew to Rao FTL but when they got there they slowed down (hell Superman would have been weakened from the kryptonite alone). They needed to slow down so that Superboy prime can get some serious exposure to the red sun. Superboy prime even said complete sentences on the way from krypton (the rocks) to the Sun. Oa was just a few miles away as shown in the panel. Superboy still has powers (just weakened) after they landed. If Superman was completely depowered he wouldn't have even hurt Superboy prime.
Originally posted by h1a8In ignorance of Surfer's traveling speed feats, I know.
Actually, my point was that I was basing my stance OFF FEATS and not opinion.I said false things because of feats I didn't know about before they came to light.
Yes, what you're doing is called, "assuming." Thank you, Captain Obvious. Don't be so confident in your conclusions when they require so many assumptions stacked on top of one another and butressed by clear hypocrisy.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0No. The hammer absorbs energy. It doesn't need to be whirled that fast to absorb energy. Thor does have light speed reflexes. But he can't move his arms at light speed without much time spent. Remember reflexes and speed are two different things. I can see a bullet coming at me in slow motion but can't do anything about it since I can't move that fast. This is even assuming the beams were even light speed at that. That is a different argument though.
Apparently he can achieve that speed faster than light speed attacks according to you. After all, he's blocked Gladiator's and Count Nefaria's heat/laser vision with it. Fact is, when he's deflected light speed attacks with a whirling shield, Mjolnir is already spinning around immensely fast. Which must mean that Thor spun it around several times at the very least. WHich must mean, according to you, that Thor did all this before the light speed attack reached his person. Making his perception and arm movements FTL by a fair margin (since there's no way that he telegraphed the blast according to your standards):
I never claimed Thor doesn't have light speed reflexes. I claiming he doesn't move at light speed, or anywhere close. Reflexes doesn't equal speed.
Let's face it, characters like Thor have every reason to do with what you're arguing. Because for whatever reason... you're giving this random schlub character FTL reflexes for blocking Superman's HV with his hand... but you won't give Thor FTL reflexes for blocking/dodging Gladiator's and Count Nefaria's heat/laser laser vision not just with Mjolnir... but where he has to build up speed by revolving Mjolnir dozens of times to form that spinning shield of his.
What an atrocious double-standard. Not uncommon though. I see it all the time from many an ignorant poster. Don't set yourself up for such nonsensical positions. Spiderman/Daredevil/Cap/Batman/Robin and every other street-leveler has dodged bullets and been tagged by punches in mid-quip and Thor/Hal/Surfer/Darkseid have deflected energy attacks and been tagged by punches in mid-pontification many a time. Shallow and vapid 5-yr old argument is shallow and vapid and 5-yr old. DD's attack is very fast? So is Hulk's. And I'm pretty positive that Surfer has turned intangible through energy attacks. kinda
SS never did any such thing. It took him some moments (minutes) to do that. I calculated it and posted it twice on this forum of that feat just to show that he didn't reach light speed within the first 3 meters.
Surfer traveled half a million light years in less than seconds. I'm pretty sure that isn't even his best dead-start traveling speed feat. [b]Calculate that. [/B]
Then that would mean Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BA (who doesn't hold back) because BAs punches only tickled Superboy Prime. The point was Superboy prime still had powers (just less of them) and Superman still hurt him. This proves Superman wasn't completely depowered, even after going through kryptonite himself. Also SS can combo Superman to ko if he hit him first. I believe Superman has a better chance of hitting SS first than SS has of hitting Superman first.
Of course, they were speeding in far of excess of FTL speeds... but slowed down right when they got to Rao. Right. It never amazes me how retarded people are willing to make a comic or a character look just to aggrandize/excuse a single showing within a comic. SUperman hurt Superboy Prime because they were both depowered. And regardless, Superman can hurt Superboy Prime even if neither of them are depowered. In ignorance of Surfer's traveling speed feats, I know.
Originally posted by darthgoober1. agree to disagree.
1. Sure he does.2. Sure it will cause Supes can’t dodge them all.
3. Sure he will, and it’s a blast that’s powerful enough to create a black hole as a side effect(so something like a nova or a supernova).
I disagree SS has a good track record of it and I disagree that Superman has a good track recorded of being vulnerable to it. I believe Superman is resistant to such attacks.
4. Sure he can. He’s got a good track record of doing it and Supes has a track record of being vulnerable to it.5. Sure he can.
6. Sure he can.
agree to disagree for 6 and 5
Cosmic awareness doesn't grant one the ability to always know the makeup of an item by its name.
7. Good thing I’ve got cosmic awareness now… assuming I even need it. I seriously doubt that Surfer’s actually knows the molecular make up of all the stuff he’s transmuted
8. Sure he can.9. Sure he can.
10. Sure he can.
SS never transmuted Knite.
You have no time bc you will be popped. Being able to matter manipulate doesn't grant one the ability to make or manipulated ANY substance in the omniverse.
11. Again, cosmic awareness(if it’s even necessary), and I’d have plenty of time to try.
12. Sure he can.
13. Sure he can
Superman is far faster than SS from a dead start. SS can't even exceed light speed within the first 3 meters of travel.
15. Sure he can
16. Sure he canSee #3, and Supes isn’t and won’t.
I don't take it as a recton. I take it as inconsistent writing. There were times in the past where this is contradicted and there will be times in the future where it will be too.
Sure he does, as of DC’s recton of the effects of red sunlight on Supes body. Don’t blame me, blame Batman for discovering it.
Originally posted by h1a8I love how H1 just says "nuh-uh!" To about 70% of the things there instead of providing some counter evidence.
1. Won't work because Superman doesn't get depowered that fast. Superman would pop SS before the board can hit him. Superman can dodge or vibrate through the board.2. Won't work because Superman would dodge the blasts or simply pop SS before he shoots the blasts.
3. Won't work since SS won't have enough time to pull that off. I don't even know what that is either.
4. SS can't drain Superman. Even if he could, Superman would pop him before or while he attempts it.5. SS can't do that to Superman.
6. SS can't do that to Superman.
7. SS don't know what K-nite is made of and neither do any one of us.
8. Surfer can't do that to Superman.
9. SS can't do that period (too rare) and Superman will pop him.
10. SS can't do that either (too rare).
11. SS can't make Adamantium and won't have time to try.
12. SS can't do that to Superman either.
13. SS can't do that either (doesn't know what it's made of and don't have time to do it either).
15. SS can't do that either. 16. SS can't do that either.
What's a black hole blast? Superman is faster and will pop SS.Superman doesn't get depowered from red sun instantly. He will pop SS, assuming SS can even radiate red sun radiation omnidirectional.
Superman can win at least a split by popping SS at his full speed from a dead start.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. agree to disagree.
2. Superman doesn't need to dodge them all since he will pop SS before anything of that happens.
3. black holes can be started with a small mass. Not all black holes are equal.
1. Nope you're wrong for ignoring an on panel recton, but if you prefer to be wrong I'll leave you to it.
2. Nah he can't do that since Surfer's got comparible speed and reactions.
3. The black hole formed as a side effect of Surfer's energy discharge, quite trying to downplay it by bringing up unrelated things.
Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree SS has a good track record of it and I disagree that Superman has a good track recorded of being vulnerable to it. I believe Superman is resistant to such attacks.agree to disagree for 6 and 5
Not really, but if you're still seeking the wrong answer I'll leave you to it.
Originally posted by h1a8
Cosmic awareness doesn't grant one the ability to always know the makeup of an item by its name.SS never transmuted Knite.
Only cause he hasn't needed to. He/I can and will here.
Originally posted by h1a8
You have no time bc you will be popped. Being able to matter manipulate doesn't grant one the ability to make or manipulated ANY substance in the omniverse.
I never said it did.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is far faster than SS from a dead start. SS can't even exceed light speed within the first 3 meters of travel.
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't take it as a recton. I take it as inconsistent writing. There were times in the past where this is contradicted and there will be times in the future where it will be too.
H1's debating style revolves around providing FOOLISH, SWEEPING, GENERALIZED and CONCLUSIVE-SOUNDING ASSUMPTIONS THEN shifting the burden of proof for OTHERS to try and disprove them while providing little evidence himself.
He starts failing once you start calling him out to provide evidence. He will try and avoid putting out evidence by using words like "common sense", "deductive reasoning" and "computations".
Keep calling him to provide evidence and he will keep failing.
Originally posted by h1a8... Gladiator shoots heat vision at Thor. Thor leaps out of the way of it and then "takes time" to spin Mjolnir around to block the next barrage. How does random schlub Superman-foe have light speed movement blocking Superman's heat vision just by moving his hand... but Thor doesn't when he has to move his entire body to leap away or has to move his arms to spin around Mjolnir several times? And don't give me your ham-fisted, "Well Gladiator's heat vision/Nefaria's laser vision probably goes much slower than Superman's."
No. The hammer absorbs energy. It doesn't need to be whirled that fast to absorb energy. Thor does have light speed reflexes. But he can't move his arms at light speed without much time spent. Remember reflexes and speed are two different things. I can see a bullet coming at me in slow motion but can't do anything about it since I can't move that fast. This is even assuming the beams were even light speed at that. That is a different argument though.
Originally posted by h1a8When I use the term "light speed reflexes," I mean it to say that Thor can reflexively move his body at light speeds. Light speed perception is being able to perceive light speed movement (but not necessairly being able to do anythng about it). And your aim dodging/aim blocking excuse for Thor COMPLETELY applies to that random schlub Superman-foe from your scan you hypocrite. Accordingly, if that random schlub Superman-foe just aim-blocked, he didn't need light speed movement to block Superman's heat vision. Therefore, Superman didn't need FTL movement to punch his face. That random schlub Superman-foe just didn't anticipate the damn punches.
I never claimed Thor doesn't have light speed reflexes. I claiming he doesn't move at light speed, or anywhere close. Reflexes doesn't equal speed. And it's called aim dodging. Also, my "In the same breath" argument still stands.
You have to see the inherent hypocrisy here. I don't understand how you unilaterally apply aim dodging/aim blocking to everyone but Superman or Superman-related characters.
Originally posted by h1a8Thanos lifts his arm to strike Captain America down. In the space of that moment, Surfer speeds 500,000 light years and misses snatching the Infinity Gauntlet away. Thanos was not standing around with his arm lifted for several minutes you schmoe.
SS never did any such thing. It took him some moments (minutes) to do that. I calculated it and posted it twice on this forum of that feat just to show that he didn't reach light speed within the first 3 meters.
facepalm
Originally posted by h1a8Superman Prime was just as depowered as the rest of them. Kryptonite doesn't depower, it just poisons. And a poisoned man can beat up a boy regardless. Stop trying to finagle that scene into something it's not. Superman can't keep up with Surfer's traveling speed. Surfer's durability >>>>> Superman's anyway. So the "first-strike" idea is a red herring anyway. Get over it.
Then that would mean Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BA (who doesn't hold back) because BAs punches only tickled Superboy Prime. The point was Superboy prime still had powers (just less of them) and Superman still hurt him. This proves Superman wasn't completely depowered, even after going through kryptonite himself. Also SS can combo Superman to ko if he hit him first. I believe Superman has a better chance of hitting SS first than SS has of hitting Superman first.
Originally posted by darthgooberSurfer has the reactions but not the instant speed from rest that Superman has. Also reactions are only part of stopping an h2h onslaught. Skill is required too. To prove this, a baseball player who can hit and catch 100mph baseballs will get his butt whip against a pro boxer who punches far slower.
1. Nope you're wrong for ignoring an on panel recton, but if you prefer to be wrong I'll leave you to it.
2. Nah he can't do that since Surfer's got comparible speed and reactions.
3. The black hole formed as a side effect of Surfer's energy discharge, quite trying to downplay it by bringing up unrelated things.
What's plenty of times for surfer 1, 2? And when has Superman been drained from someone, and how many times?
Well you're wrong on both counts. Surfer's done it plenty of times and it's worked on Supes plenty of times.
Humans can make someone they never made before. That has nothing to do with making something from another universe who's makeup isn't known by name. You don't even know the makeup of it thus its no help to SS.It does unless you honestly think Surfer has the technical knowledge to create all the stuff he has in the past.
Only cause he hasn't needed to. He/I can and will here.
There is a good chance Superman will blitz SS before he can make a credible action. His speed from rest is instant (light speed within first 3 meters of travel), SS's isn't. Surfer will definitely take a few here depending on whether he hits Superman good first.
Sure I'll have enough time.I never said it did.
Simple math and logic proves it. I calculated all of SS's best speed feats and NONE have him reaching light speed within the first 3 meters of travel. Superman trumps him in instant speed from rest.
Bullshit on both.
There's two arguments here.
It's a recton, hate it if you want but what you're doing is no different than someone trying to use Pre Recton Beyonder feats in a thread regarding the post recton version of the character.
2. Assuming it is a recton then are rectons>>>>> contradictory on panel evidence of a character's history?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0The schlub didn't prove to move his hand as fast as light but at least 10% of it within the time frame of the attack. Thor could have been aim dodging when he jumped out of the way (show the scan again). As far as Thor blocking the beam, Thor could swing the hammer at human speeds (the speed in which a strong human can swing it) and still block the beam. Why?
... Gladiator shoots heat vision at Thor. Thor leaps out of the way of it and then "takes time" to spin Mjolnir around to block the next barrage. How does random schlub Superman-foe have light speed movement blocking Superman's heat vision just by moving his hand... but Thor doesn't when he has to move his entire body to leap away or has to move his arms to spin around Mjolnir several times?
We know that Thor doesn't swing the hammer at infinite speed and we know that the hammer absorbs energy like a sponge. Thus we can conclude that Thor doesn't need to swing the hammer very fast to absorb the beam. He must start the swing before the beam reaches him though. That's where is light speed reflexes come in to play.
Again, I never claimed the being to move as fast as light. I actually stated posts ago that to block an attack from 10 meters away one must move with at least 10% of the speed of the attack. The thing is, the schlub had to not only put his hand up at the right moment but he had to put it in the right spot. Superman could have fired at any time and at any place on his body. Superman is not going to fire at a hand already up to block the beam. Thor on the other hand is different. He doesn't necessarily have to put the hammer up in the right spot. He just whirls it to cover a larger area. If Thor has the reflexes and speed as the schlub and assuming the hammer doesn't absorb energy then why doesn't Thor just block the beam by holding the hammer still in front of the beam and using his speed and reflexes to take care of the rest?
And don't give me your ham-fisted, "Well Gladiator's heat vision/Nefaria's laser vision probably goes much slower than Superman's." When I use the term "light speed reflexes," I mean it to say that Thor can reflexively move his body at light speeds. Light speed perception is being able to perceive light speed movement (but not necessairly being able to do anythng about it). And your aim dodging/aim blocking excuse for Thor COMPLETELY applies to that random schlub Superman-foe from your scan you hypocrite. Accordingly, if that random schlub Superman-foe just aim-blocked, he didn't need light speed movement to block Superman's heat vision. Therefore, Superman didn't need FTL movement to punch his face. That random schlub Superman-foe just didn't anticipate the damn punches.
I thought you were referring to the other feat. Well in this case you committed a false statement then (you didn't necessarily lie though). Surfer was only 1 light year away when Thanos started to cock back. The whole scenario tooks a few seconds on average.
You [b]have to see the inherent hypocrisy here. I don't understand how you unilaterally apply aim dodging/aim blocking to everyone but Superman or Superman-related characters. Thanos lifts his arm to strike Captain America down. In the space of that moment, Surfer speeds 500,000 light years and misses snatching the Infinity Gauntlet away. Thanos was not standing around with his arm lifted for several minutes you schmoe.[/B]
But he wasn't completely depowered. Thus red sun radiation doesn't completely depower Superman or Superboy prime on contact. Superman is far faster than SS from a dead start. Feats show this. Hell as far as long distance traveling we have Superman traveling to other galaxies within moments (without the use of wormholes and such), although this is irrelevant to the fight.
facepalm Superman Prime was just as depowered as the rest of them. Kryptonite doesn't depower, it just poisons. And a poisoned man can beat up a boy regardless. Stop trying to finagle that scene into something it's not. Superman can't keep up with Surfer's traveling speed. Surfer's durability >>>>> Superman's anyway. So the "first-strike" idea is a red herring anyway. Get over it.
Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer has the reactions but not the instant speed from rest that Superman has. Also reactions are only part of stopping an h2h onslaught. Skill is required too. To prove this, a baseball player who can hit and catch 100mph baseballs will get his butt whip against a pro boxer who punches far slower.
Originally posted by h1a8
What's plenty of times for surfer 1, 2? And when has Superman been drained from someone, and how many times?
Originally posted by h1a8
Humans can make someone they never made before. That has nothing to do with making something from another universe who's makeup isn't known by name. You don't even know the makeup of it thus its no help to SS.
Originally posted by h1a8
There is a good chance Superman will blitz SS before he can make a credible action. His speed from rest is instant (light speed within first 3 meters of travel), SS's isn't. Surfer will definitely take a few here depending on whether he hits Superman good first.
Originally posted by h1a8
Simple math and logic proves it. I calculated all of SS's best speed feats and NONE have him reaching light speed within the first 3 meters of travel. Superman trumps him in instant speed from rest.
Originally posted by h1a8
There's two arguments here.
1. Is it a recton or inconsistent writing? The comic didn't mention recton. With your logic, I can take Spider-man koing Firelord as a recton that the more serious Spidey gets the more powerful he gets (he can reach herald level strength or above if he's serious enough).2. Assuming it is a recton then are rectons>>>>> contradictory on panel evidence of a character's history?
Originally posted by darthgooberI mentioned that you must have three things. Remember my baseball player boxer scenario?
He has both.
I disagree
The answer to both is "enough".Human's can't transmute anything.
Human's can transmute elements. What planet are you from?
They can turn hydrogen to helium, etc. But transmutation is irrelevant to my point. The fact is one can't make something just by only knowing its name. I tell Surfer to make some "kyxnil" and he wouldn't know how, because he doesn't know its chemical makeup.
Comparable speed goes out the window on speeds approaching light speed. For example, if someone can move at 99% the speed of light and the other at 98% then you would probably say they both move at comparable speeds right? Well if you say yes then you would be wrong. Why? Because this 1% of the speed of light difference is huge. That means one can move more than 32.8 feet before the other can move 3.83 inches.
Nah Supes can't pull that off because of Surfer's comparitive speed.
If I'm wrong then it's sure not mathematically. Math proves feats which proves who is the greater, at least IMO. Otherwise we wouldn't know who is stronger from different comic companies.
You're wrong, it's just that simple.
The comic doesn't say recton. It could be just inconsistent writing. To prove my point, did the writer for the Onslaught saga recton the gem back into Juggs chest? Did the writer for Spidey vs. Firelord recton Spidey being able to match heralds in a h2h fight when serious enough? I can go on. Who's to say these aren't rectons too?
1. It's a recton,
2. Yes, rectons trump old showings.
Rectons don't trump old showings if that recton doesn't explain what actually happened in those old showings. A recton without explanation of past events would just be called "Inconsistent Writing".
Pre ret Beyonder recton DID EXPLAIN what happened in the past to undo it. Now we can go back and say, "That's how that actually happened." Without explanation of contradictory events there is no recton.
