Originally posted by Starscream MUnlikely as in... the Surfer is unlikely to be physically capable of this?
this cheesy tactic is an unlikely onewhereas superman blitzing surfer is very plausible.
Or unlikely as in... the Surfer would not have the propensity to utilize such a tactic?
The former I disagree with completely. The latter is irrelevant since this is tournament style debate.
Originally posted by 753Then he wasn't depowered at first contact with other red sun radiation. I'm going with history here.
He has been instantly depowered by the artificial red sun luthor's weapon created.
No its not. Superman is stronger than anyone SS has faced physically.
His durabilty is enough not to be stunned, he reacts and fights while being injured all the time.
He has not teleported under his own power. You must not only show one scan of this but multiple scans of this to prove NOT PIS.
Christ don't you get tired of being wrong all the time? He has teleported and his reactions are at least in the nanoseconds timeframe. Just go to his respect thread.0.2 seconds and not 1.02 seconds is the average human reaction time, which I assume is what you were getting at. SS's is shorter than a nanosecond.
And reaction times has nothing to do with movement times or time of activation. I can press a button in .2sec but the operation after may take 1.2 second to complete.
You must not only prove this by showing a scan, but show other instances of him outputting that type of power.
He can generate and manipulate any frequency of radiation which is a well established fact and he has 'gone nova' as in blasting in all directions with an absurd amount of energy that briefly matches a nova star.
Originally posted by 753
Reposted http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpghttp://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg
Brightness doesn't imply amount of quantity. SS can never and has never outputted the energy of a supernova under his own power.
Some flashlights can get super bright, that doesn't mean they have a lot of energy behind them.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Here's another one to support it too...http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_18.jpg
That proves nothing. Power output and brightness are two different things. Any star can be seen from less than a lightyear away (less than a million million miles). A super nova is far brighter than any star.
Originally posted by darthgoober
WRONG! A recton DOES invalidate anything already established that contradicts the nature of the recton.Look back a page or two man...
It doesn't invalidate it, it re explains it. What you are referring to never re explained why Superman didn't get depowered instantly from first contact with Red Sun radiation in the past. Thus I consider what you are referring to as bad writing.
I don't know what you mean about look back a page or two.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Actually the opposite, I calculated all of SS's best feats and NONE of them showed him being able to reach light speed within the first 3meters of travel. Superman on the other hand has shown the ability to exceed light speed within the first 3 meters of travel. Also Superman vibrating through attacks and going intangible in an instant proves he is far faster than SS from rest.
I think from a dead start, Surfer has Superman beat in travelling speed. So maybe the best maneuver for Surfer here would be to zoom away from Superman instantly to a safe distance or, should Superman be following him, just continue keeping slightly beyond reach as I also believe Surfer's top travelling speed beats out Superman's. In either scenario, this should give Surfer more than enough time and wherewithal to charge his body with nova intensity light and just go from there.Granted, I find the claims that Surfer cannot process Superman's combat speed to be dubious, but this cheesy tactic eliminates the need to belabor that point. Speed kills, right?
It seems when arguing SS vs. Superman people like to bust out SS speed and reaction abilities to try to show that Superman can't hit him.
What about SS fights with Thor or Thanos, surely those guys are far slower than Superman. Right? I smell bias towards Marvel.
Originally posted by h1a8lol yes it does and the scan makes it unambiguous that he matched the luminous energy output of a nova - whether he matched its thermal energy output is irrelevant here.
Brightness doesn't imply amount of quantity. SS can never and has never outputted the energy of a supernova under his own power.Some flashlights can get super bright, that doesn't mean they have a lot of energy behind them.
Originally posted by h1a8And Im going with most recent and updated portrayal that has an explanationbehind it. Red stralight blocks the energy in his cells.
Then he wasn't depowered at first contact with other red sun radiation. I'm going with history here.
lol War Hulk, Thanos, Galactus backhands slaps and punches into the ground by the dozens, he remained in the fight.
No its not. Superman is stronger than anyone SS has faced physically.
He has not teleported under his own power. You must not only show one scan of this but multiple scans of this to prove NOT PIS.
Go to his respect thread and look under teleportation or miscelaneous feats. He has done so and you don't understand what PIS is. PIS doesnt apply to rare occurances, PIS apllies to characters not using their powers in ways that are possible to them and consistant with their intellects and moralities because it would ruin the soryline, like Darkseid not BFRing SM into the wall of the universe or flash not using superspeed.
More importantly, READ THE OP this is tournament style. CIS is off and we control the cgaracters.
2 sets of scans were already provided, you deliberately missinterpreted at least one of them and may have missed the other. SS has created a black hole and reignited a star with his energy output on his own, these more than prove it.
And reaction times has nothing to do with movement times or time of activation. I can press a button in .2sec but the operation after may take 1.2 second to complete.[quote] It has verything ebcause SS's powers are thought activated, they don't require body movments and where did you come with this 1,02 secodns for him to teleport then?[quote] You must not only prove this by showing a scan, but show other instances of him outputting that type of power.
Originally posted by h1a8Actually, you never did prove that at all, you just made soime shit up about that time SM hit an albino with HV and then blitzed him with punches that doesn't corroborate your thesis one bit. Besides, even if SM's accelaration is superior, this wouldn't determine the outcome.
Actually the opposite, I calculated all of SS's best feats and NONE of them showed him being able to reach light speed within the first 3meters of travel. Superman on the other hand has shown the ability to exceed light speed within the first 3 meters of travel. Also Superman vibrating through attacks and going intangible in an instant proves he is far faster than SS from rest.
Nope. SM can hit SS, it's just that he won't blitz SS as the SS can hang with him in terms of reaction. You are the only person on the whole planet who actually believes the absurd idea that if SM can land one blow, he'll combo to KO. By your very logic, if SS, who has the range and power output advantages, can blast SM once, he can follow it up while SM is stunned and SM'll invariably lose.
It seems when arguing SS vs. Superman people like to bust out SS speed and reaction abilities to try to show that Superman can't hit him.What about SS fights with Thor or Thanos, surely those guys are far slower than Superman. Right? I smell bias towards Marvel.
Nobody accepts the combo to ko principle h1, everyone thinks it's absurd and comical.
Originally posted by 753Of course it does. If someone can block a light speed attack and get blitzed by Superman in the same page it shows that Superman blitzed faster than his HV. Superman would simply pop SS in this fight and follow it up with a combo to ko. If SS pops Superman then he can win as well, but not in a physical combo to ko but a red sun and board combo to ko. Why is the combo to ko principle absurb? Is it is impossible because the physics
Actually, you never did prove that at all, you just made soime shit up about that time SM hit an albino with HV and then blitzed him with punches that doesn't corroborate your thesis one bit. Besides, even if SM's accelaration is superior, this wouldn't determine the outcome.
Nope. SM can hit SS, it's just that he won't blitz SS as the SS can hang with him in terms of reaction. You are the only person on the whole planet who actually believes the absurd idea that if SM can land one blow, he'll combo to KO. By your very logic, if SS, who has the range and power output advantages, can blast SM once, he can follow it up while SM is stunned and SM'll invariably lose.Nobody accepts the combo to ko principle h1, everyone thinks it's absurd and comical.
Originally posted by 753Recent things can be bad writing too.
And Im going with most recent and updated portrayal that has an explanationbehind it. Red stralight blocks the energy in his cells.
I don't get what you are trying to say here. But Superman is stronger than any being that SS has faced physically (h2h).
lol War Hulk, Thanos, Galactus backhands slaps and punches into the ground by the dozens, he remained in the fight.
I'm a old member here and they reworded the rules several times. PIS was defined as feats which are statistically rare (outliers) of a character's history. That's when SvFL (Spider-man vs. Firelord) had it's own definition. Since then they combined the two as PIS.
Go to his respect thread and look under teleportation or miscelaneous feats. He has done so and you don't understand what PIS is. PIS doesnt apply to rare occurances, PIS apllies to characters not using their powers in ways that are possible to them and consistant with their intellects and moralities because it would ruin the soryline, like Darkseid not BFRing SM into the wall of the universe or flash not using superspeed.
That's why Superman pulls off the combo to ko on SS.
More importantly, READ THE OP this is tournament style. CIS is off and we control the cgaracters.
SS created a black hole yes, but that doesn't mean it was even a solar mass. Several sources of fiction have beings collasping matter to become a black hole (like planets and smaller things). So creating a black hole in itself isn't that great of a feat unless one does at least a solar mass one entirely from their own power. A match can burn a house down. That doesn't mean the match had the power of a full burning house. SS igniting a star doesn't equal the power of the star since it takes far less power to ignite a star.
2 sets of scans were already provided, you deliberately missinterpreted at least one of them and may have missed the other. SS has created a black hole and reignited a star with his energy output on his own, these more than prove it.
Originally posted by 753Brightness and power are too different things. Xrays and gamma rays are far more powerful than light, yet they are not as bright. The scan only talks about brightness, nothing more. Get that SS implied "SS exerted the power of a super nova" sh!t outta here.
lol yes it does and the scan makes it unambiguous that he matched the luminous energy output of a nova - whether he matched its thermal energy output is irrelevant here.
Originally posted by h1a8
That proves nothing. Power output and brightness are two different things. Any star can be seen from less than a lightyear away (less than a million million miles). A super nova is far brighter than any star.
Originally posted by h1a8
It doesn't invalidate it, it re explains it. What you are referring to never re explained why Superman didn't get depowered instantly from first contact with Red Sun radiation in the past. Thus I consider what you are referring to as bad writing.
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't know what you mean about look back a page or two.
Originally posted by -Pr-
The problem with the Busiek thing is that it varies. Sometimes Superman is shown being instantly depowered, and sometimes he isn't, even nowadays.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I know that. The problem is that post retcon kryptonians have still been shown around a red sun not being completely stripped of their powers.How do we decide which one to use?
Originally posted by h1a8No it doesn't, because the blitz is a series of multidirectional attacs and the HV is a single one, it's harder to defend against a blitz. The fact that the guy couldnt defend against the blitz can also be atributed to SM's superior skills in H2H. SM did not even outrace his own hv, so this says nothing about how fast he was moving to close in on the guy.
[B]Of course it does. If someone can block a light speed attack and get blitzed by Superman in the same page it shows that Superman blitzed faster than his HV. Superman would simply pop SS in this fight and follow it up with a combo to ko. If SS pops Superman then he can win as well, but not in a physical combo to ko but a red sun and board combo to ko. Why is the combo to ko principle absurb? Is it is impossible because the physics
wont hold up or because characters don't think to fight that way?
Because characters react through the pundings they receive all the time in comics. Durability, reaction time, etc. can all allow a guy getting punched repeatedly to interrupt the combo with a cunterstrike. comics do not support the notion that once a character is hit the first time, he'll be defenselss to a string of attack
I'm saying SS has endured and remained fighting while taking blows from hulk, gladiator, thor and galactus himself. If a backhand from G didnt stun SS significantly, a unch from SM won't.
I don't get what you are trying to say here. But Superman is stronger than any being that SS has faced physically (h2h).
I'm a old member here and they reworded the rules several times. PIS was defined as feats which are statistically rare (outliers) of a character's history. That's when SvFL (Spider-man vs. Firelord) had it's own definition. Since then they combined the two as PIS.
That's why Superman pulls off the combo to ko on SS.
SS created a black hole yes, but that doesn't mean it was even a solar mass. Several sources of fiction have beings collasping matter to become a black hole (like planets and smaller things). So creating a black hole in itself isn't that great of a feat unless one does at least a solar mass one entirely from their own power. A match can burn a house down. That doesn't mean the match had the power of a full burning house. SS igniting a star doesn't equal the power of the star since it takes far less power to ignite a star.
But what depoweres SM is light, so whatever other energies are packed by different radiations are irrelevant, it's the radiant component that matters here. I also believe most of the energy a star releases is luminosity anyway, but I could be wrong.
Brightness and power are too different things. Xrays and gamma rays are far more powerful than light, yet they are not as bright. The scan only talks about brightness, nothing more. Get that SS implied "SS exerted the power of a super nova" sh!t outta here.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Either's fine, just not both. Seems like it would make more sense to go by DC's officially recognized explanation if there seems to be a tie between the writers though. I mean I know company policy shouldn't trump on panel showings on the forum, but if there's evidence of both they are as good a tie breaker as any.
and naturally you would choose the one that best suits your argument... 😛
