Also I guess this threads title should be changed.
Originally posted by KingD19Spoiler:
I never did the Control ending. But the Catalyst kid outright said, something to the effect of. "Will you choose control? You'll die, but the Reapers will be under your command." Not word for word, but he basically told Shepard he'd die in order to take control of the Reapers. I read somewhere he transferred his consciousness or something.And you don't leave the ending to a 6 year long trilogy that open. Especially after promising that whole schpiel about choices and stuff. People put so much effort into it because they wanted to know if the Krogan had another rebellion if you cured the Genophage. They wanted to know what happened with Shepard and his love interest. What happened with the Quarian and the Geth. I'm not in the minority. Like 90% of the entire Mass Effect fanbase is up in arms.
DLC is all fine and good, but it shouldn't have come to that. They mess up on the endings and then we have to pay to get what we expected and they promised in the first place? That's like an online ad for a computer with a 300 gig hard drive, then you buy the thing and find out it's only 20 gigs. Then the guy you bought it from says, oh, about that... I've got this thing that'll add 280 gigs to your computer, but you have to buy it in addition to what you already got.
Spoiler:
Yes he said that you will die, but if you have over 5000 asset points, you will survive, gasping for breath, as DDM mentioned.Well, I think you had misplaced expectations. Having an ending that showed what happened in the centuries after the ending would have just been long winded. Wanting to know what happens to your love interest is reasonable enough, but really, it wouldn't have fit. For most people, Shepherd is dead, or at least thought to be dead, for now. In the games, we ARE Shepherd, we see and know what he knows. And at the end of the game Shepherd gets no closure, so why should we. This is not a film, this is a game, and games are often very much based on perspective.
Also keep in mind that this is NOT the last game based in the Mass Effect universe. This is simply the last game of the current trilogy. What happened with the Genophage, and other such things that couldn't possibly be known for years after the timeline of the game's ending will likely be shown in the next game.
And as far as DLC goes, frankly you should have known. When they said "Mass Effect 3 will wrap up the trilogy" they obviously meant the core game AND the DLC. The DLC is simply considered part of the experience these days. Perhaps it's unfortunate that we're to that point in this industry, but it's a fact of life.
DDM -
Spoiler:
You're right, the way I said that was strange. What I meant by my comment about an open ended ending being less lazy is that I think it takes a lot more effort from a writing standpoint to create a satisfying conclusion to a story (remember, I am of the opinion that this ending WAS satisfying) without bogging down the pacing of the storytelling with needless exposition and explanation. An open ended ending is simply much more difficult to write properly than an ending where every little thing is spelled out for the audience, which takes little/no artistic thought or talent.
Originally posted by BackFire
DDM -Spoiler:
You're right, the way I said that was strange. What I meant by my comment about an open ended ending being less lazy is that I think it takes a lot more effort from a writing standpoint to create a satisfying conclusion to a story (remember, I am of the opinion that this ending WAS satisfying) without bogging down the pacing of the storytelling with needless exposition and explanation. An open ended ending is simply much more difficult to write properly than an ending where every little thing is spelled out for the audience, which takes little/no artistic thought or talent.
Oh shit...a long ass post.
Spoiler:
Tired of spoilers. lolAnyway, I find the exact opposite to be the case. An open ended ending to a story is extremely easy to write. It actually doesn't take effort at all. You simply can cut your story off at ANY point, no matter where in the plot you are...as long as it does not end AFTER the resolution. I am referring to, of course, Freytag's dramatic structure. So, what I mean...it is extremely lazy and almost always will be to "write" an open ended story. To a series/franchise that has a huge following, it is very similar to a middle finger.
Directly to the game....I thought the ending was great...the ending that I was talking about earlier...with Shep breathing. That was not open ended. It had plenty of resolution.
Now, a seeming open-ended ending IS very difficult to write. I'm referring to the endings where it seems like it cuts off right in the middle of the plot with no resolution...but a second reading of the story or subtle clues throughout the story reveal exactly what the ending is going to be and then it becomes enjoyably obvious and NOT open-ended. IMO, that writing style is one of the hardest to pull off. I cannot think of anything like that, right off the top of my head, but a story SIMILAR to that is a Tale of Two Cities. You knew that Carton was Darnay at the end. I don't remember if it was ever directly stated. But, the story could have ended without revealing that Carton was pretending to be Darnay and the reader would have been able to easily surmise that. What does Dickens, one of if not the greatest Victorian Writer do? He writes a mother****in' ending like a boss. 😆 Do I think Nolan is a bad writer? HELL no...I love the shit out of his works. He hasn't made a bad film, yet. I bet you his "play around" home videos he made with his friends in highschool (you know he made some) are awesome, too. But is he of Charles Dickens caliber? Prolly not. Nolan will go by the way side and Dickens work will still be read centuries from now. Am I committing a logical fallacy by an indirect "appeal to expert"? Prolly. It's just my opinion.
But back to the other topic. Are there seeming open-ended movies that fit the above description of a truly "masterful" story?
"The Giver"? Nope, not the case. Lazy ass writing that could have easily been written.
Inception? Nope, extremely lazy ending.
Picnic at Hanging Rock? Worse than The Giver and Inception, IMO. Extremely lazy writing to the utmost degree.
The problem? Some people actually like the lazy writing style. It's pretentious, not artistic, and lame as ****.
Believe it or not, I fully expected JK Rowling to write the last of her Harry Potter stories open-ended. Why? Because she is a good writer (no joke...she's actually good...among the better modern writers) and had become full of herself due to her success. So I expected some sort of pretentious "pretend to be thought-provoking" open ended ending. However...........she delivered. She took the effort and time needed to ACTUALLY write a conclusion. Doing that to the satisfaction of her millions upon millions of fans is probably the most difficult things she has ever done in her life. Writing a good ending to a good story is VERY difficult. This is why so many writers leave plot elements or entire plots open ended: it is laziness in the disguise of "pretentious thought provocation". It is due to the masses of people that want to also be pretentious because "I have a deep insight for why it means this, man...just listen..." It is annoying and facepalm worthy every time it happens. I facepalmed at the end of Inception. I facepalmed at the end of Picnic at Hanging Rock. And I facepalmed at the end of the second pirates film (PotC)...but that last one was due to how over the top and archetypal the ending was instead of the open-endedness. lol
Anyway, where was I?
Oh yeah, Mass Effect 3's ending. It wasn't opened ended. It was good writing. It had resolution. Open-ended would have been Shephard finding out about the crucible and finally assembling it and then looking into the camera and saying, "okay, it is time ot end this" and THEN rolling credits. That is the open ended ending. In ME3...there is no true open ended ending. All 3 or 4 (depending on your effective military strength and whether or not you chose the renegade ending) endings have resolution. So the game cannot count as an open-ended ending.
Spoiler:
That's an interesting perspective. I did say it's hard going an open ended ending properly. Just ending it somewhere randomly would be a shit ending and lazy, but doing one with thought and at the proper point while still maintaining a satisfying conclusion can be difficult , because you're right, it's very easy to enter the the realm of pretension when doing one, particularly when one is done wrong.
Originally posted by BackFireSpoiler:
That's an interesting perspective. I did say it's hard going an open ended ending properly. Just ending it somewhere randomly would be a shit ending and lazy, but doing one with thought and at the proper point while still maintaining a satisfying conclusion can be difficult , because you're right, it's very easy to enter the the realm of pretension when doing one, particularly when one is done wrong.
Spoiler:
You see, that's what almost all open ended stories seem like to me: ending it randomly because they do not want to make the extreme effort of ending it properly. Reminds me of Inception: it was ended that way out of PURE pretentiousness. "ewwww...look at me, I can write a whole thought provoking film that has tons of errors but not write the ending. I'm an edgy intellectual, man." Better yet, "Well, here's the whole movie. I'll cut off the very last second of the film that would give all the viewers closer. trolololololololol! youpi " But, Mass Effect 3 is none of these. The ending is hardly open ended.Which endings are people saying are open ended?
1. Paragon - Shep sacrifices his physical form and becomes one with the Reaper AI....and controlling the will of the Reapers and saving the Galaxy. Mass Relays are destroyed and technology turns a few centuries backwards.
2. Renegade - All AI is destroyed including the Reapers. The galaxy is saved. Mass Relays are destroyed, like 1.
3. Neutral - All AI is saved. All Biology is saved. Mass Relays are destroyed. Reapers become part bio and all bio becomes part synthetic. Shep still dies (???)
4. Renegade Version 2(lots of military points...best ending all around but still not what I want...) - all the same as #2 except Shep lives.
Here's the ending I wanted:
5. Paragon version 2 - Everything is the same as #3 except Shephard lives. Basically, take the Renegade 'special' that you get for having high military points, add it to the neutral ending, but make the neutral choice the paragon choice (why is he neutral choice the neutral choice? Saving all life and sacrificing yourself is THE most righteous path: ALL sentient life is saved including the Reapers and Geth...and EDI) and make that the paragon choice. This, imo, is the ending that all the fans would have wanted and been more agreeable to. It should have been the first ending. THEN for those that got LOTS of military points (the interwebz is saying 5000 or more AFTER multiplier is used), they get a special ending where Joker finds Shep in the rubble (or SOMETHING to where Shep says something to Joker to indicate he is alive and things will continue). The grandpa talking to the kid thing was a bit...lame? Sure, my suggestion is also lame but it at least could be done much better than I explained to flow well with the "feelinig" they were going for on their ending.
Spoiler:
For me, the whole way through I was actually expecting something horrible to happen at the end. I thought that maybe the game would kill off whoever your love interest is at the end, or make you choose between sacrificing them or sacrificing shepherd. I still think that would have been a potent ending that would have fit with the theme of the game, and fit with the whole 'tough choices' idea that the series was founded on.
That isn't really a spoiler, but screw it.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
15% should be unacceptable even by loosest QA standards.
Originally posted by Peach
Apparently that's pretty common - either it doesn't import correctly, or just plain doesn't recognize the ME2 save files at all. From what I remember hearing, it affects something like 15% of copies? Which obviously wasn't enough for them to care about actually fixing it...I dunno, but I'd think that 15% is a huge number and they should have had the fix ready for that before the game launched, since they were aware of the problem.
I've been onto Bioware Forums and they acknowledged that it's a serious problem for some people. It turns out some of the face codes generated by importing a character from ME1 into ME2 screwed up, to the point where the ME3 importer couldn't even recognize some of the variables. They're in the process of trying to fix it, from what I've read.
For those of you complaining about the endings, I found a theory that, after taking the
Spoiler:option myself, I fully support.
destroy the Reapers
Spoiler:
Everything after Harbinger hits Shepard with its laser is a dream.Sounds like a really stupid cop-out, but think about it for a bit.
You get up, groggy and wounded, armor burned to an unrecognizable crisp. Pick up a pistol which hey, needs no reloading, that's weird. As you stumble towards the beam, you can hear radio chatter, people saying absolutely no one made it to the beam. What, can't they see you?
Then make it to the beam, and are transported to a part of the Citadel you've never seen before. As you walk forward, down a straight route with no alternate entrances, Anderson checks in, saying he's ahead of you, though he "followed you" into the beam (which is in itself strange since you never saw him after getting up). Then the Illusive Man appears, out of nowhere! Where'd he come from?! But he's there, since you knew he'd be there in the end.
All that plays out, you activate the Citadel, it links up with the Crucible, mission done! Only... it's not doing anything! So you crawl to the control panel... and fail to hit it. Flop down, conveniently onto an elevator that takes you up to... the Catalyst.
Which, conveniently, looks like the heartstring-tugging little boy you've been having nightmares about. And tells you that it controls the Reapers, and they're its solution to the inherent chaos of the universe, and without it organics would be completely destroyed.
It then gives you a choice. You can indeed destroy the Reapers, if you want. Just know that doing so will kill all synthetic life, which includes your new friends the Geth, and EDI, and remember that you're partly synthetic too, so you'll probably die! And to top it off, future organics will eventually create synthetic life and make the cycle begin anew. Gosh does that choice sound bad now!
But wait... you could try controlling the Reapers. Sure, the Illusive Man couldn't do it, but you might... you'll die, but the Reapers will obey your command. Oh, by the way, if you do that the mass relays will be destroyed, which will cut off all galactic travel and strand the species from one another.
And there is a third option: Synthesis. Combine your energy with the Crucible, become one with it, and ascend to merge all organic and synthetic life into a new cyber-organic form of existence. The relays will also be destroyed, but the cycle will end and you will have brought the galaxy to the "final stage" of evolution.
Those are the options presented. Now look at how they're presented. The Destroy choice is illustrated with Anderson, a true-blue Paragon and admirable man if ever there was one. But the option is presented in red, the traditional color of Renegade choices. By the words of the Catalyst, it is the absolute worst choice, killing yourself and millions of your allies to achieve a peace that won't last.
The Control choice is illustrated with the Illusive Man, who is a Renegade of the highest degree, willing to sacrifice anything and everything for his own personal goals. And you've probably argued against him already about why controlling the Reapers is impossible, and seen what happened to him when he attempted it. But the option is presented in blue, the Paragon color, and the Catalyst's words paint the choice as much, much better than simply destroying the Reapers. Notice too that when you ask the Catalyst for confirmation that you will control the Reapers, it hesitates before saying yes.
The Synthesis option is presented as the most noble and desirable by the Catalyst, with the only real negative being that the relays will be destroyed. But then... synthesis is what Saren was hoping to achieve in the first game. Synthesis is how the Reapers are born, turning organic matter into themselves. And the relays' destruction almost seems like a thrown-in comment by the Catalyst to make it look like there's some reason it shouldn't be the obvious correct choice.
WHAT IS THIS?!
You're still on Earth. Unconscious after the blast, and Harbinger is attempting to indoctrinate you. The radio chatter you hear is in fact real, and they have to assume you're dead. Everything on the Citadel is an imagined scenario, with Harbinger influencing your mind so that you'll lose the will to fight. This is further supported by how the EMS affects which endings are available for choosing. If you have really low military strength, the Reapers are winning so hard that they don't even need an indoctrinated Shepard to win, and Harbinger is straight-up mocking you with a fever dream of a change at destroying them. At higher military strength, your forces are doing well enough that indoctrinating you would give them enough of an advantage to likely win, so Harbinger offers choices that, through the image of the boy, look sympathetic and preferable.
And what actually happens? Well, in the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard dies. But in the Destroy ending, and only in the Destroy ending, where you resist the indoctrination to give in to the Reapers and decide to keep fighting... if you've gotten your military strength high enough (meaning your forces can hold the Reapers off long enough)... Shepard takes a gasping breath and awakes, trapped in rubble. Concrete-and-rebar London rubble, not twisted metal Citadel rubble.
It makes far more sense than any of the three options actually being true. Expect DLC to unlock the true ending, a la Arrival.
This game sure has a bunch of glitches. Everytime I go talk to Joker or EDI, I get stuck between their seats and can't move. To get out, I tried to engage into a conversation with Joker or EDI but that didn't work and so I was forced to load the game. There were even times when enemies didn't spawn, preventing me from progressing further through a mission and for some reason, cutscenes were skipped without my permission. Thanks Bioware.
Originally posted by Nemesis X
This game sure has a bunch of glitches. Everytime I go talk to Joker or EDI, I get stuck between their seats and can't move. To get out, I tried to engage into a conversation with Joker or EDI but that didn't work and so I was forced to load the game. There were even times when enemies didn't spawn, preventing me from progressing further through a mission and for some reason, cutscenes were skipped without my permission. Thanks Bioware.
Spoiler:I was in a room where I'd just activated a computer console and the door had closed behind me. I saved and quit for the night there. When I started back up, the door didn't spawn the green panel that lets you open it. Luckily I was able to revert to a slightly earlier save.
Eden Prime
If you want desperate, heart-wrenching glitches, try freezing when
Spoiler:after taking on six Brutes and four Banshees in succession.
running for the Thanix missile controls in London