RoTS Vader vs Half-Blood Prince

Originally posted by ares834
All right. Completley forgot about that.

Not at all. Dumbledore is more powerful and can preform magic beyond any wizard other than perhaps Voldemort. Just because he can do it doesn't mean Snape can.

Not at all. Unless a wand has some supernatural attachemt to its owner that forces it to not be removed... 😛 Plus as we see in ESB, force users can use the force to almsot effortlessly disarm their opponents.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then why, pray tell, is accio never used to disarm a wizard? Because expelliarmus is the only way. Accio is essentially the same as force pulling an object, and the incantation is much shorter than expelliarmus.

Edit: It definently seems to be the first one as in TOotP novel, a Death Eater attempts to use it on the prophecy but Potter manages to hold on.

Edit 2: And if we want to get really fancy Vader could simply use the force to snap it. Afterall wands aren't that difficult to break.

Originally posted by ares834
Perhaps because the "pull" isn't hard enough. Or perhaps the wands have protection on them from the spell like horcruxes.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The "pull" was strong enough to summon Harry's firebolt from the castle during the first task if the triwizard tournament. That was easily hundreds of yards away. Also, the firebolt is much larger than a wand. Obviously accio is stronger than expelliarmus.

Originally posted by ares834

Edit: It definently seems to be the first one as in TOotP novel, a Death Eater attempts to use it on the prophecy but Potter manahes to hold on.

There is a magical bond between a wizard and his wand, a bond that can only be broken with magic. The force is not magic.

Questions?

So suddenly HP characters and wands have some built in dues ex machina that protects them from the force...

Originally posted by ares834
So suddenly HP characters and wands have some built in dues ex machina that protects them from the force...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
"The wand chooses the wizard."

There is a magical bond between a wizard and his wand, a bond that can only be broken with magic. The force is not magic.

Questions?

Why is accio never used to disarm wizards? It's more powerful, it has more range, the incantation is much shorter.

Answer: Expelliarmus is the only way to disarm a wizard. Magic, dude. The force is not magic, and vice versa.

Force users can't be killed by magic because it was never shown! 😱

And once again I have already proven that Accio is not powerful enough to rip an item out of someones hand. The force on the other hand is.

Originally posted by ares834
Force users can't be killed by magic because it was never shown! 😱

And once again I have already proven that Accio is not powerful enough to rip an item out of someones hand. The force on the other hand is.

Expelliarmus is more of an impact spell. It knocks the wand from the wizards hand, it does not pull it away, like a force pull. Accio is a summoning spell.

The force cannot break the magical bond between wizard and wand. Only magic can. That's why expelliarmus exists, that is it's sole purpose, in addition to stunning.

You need to accept this.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, stop.

You've proven shit. Accio is way more powerful than expelliarmus, read what I posted.

The force cannot break the magical bond between wizard and wand. Only magic can. That's why expelliarmus exists, that is it's sole purpose, in addition to stunning.

BTW expelliarmus is not the only thing that can disarm a wizard...

Originally posted by ares834
That's your argument. Since only magic is shown to disarm Wizards its the only thing that can... Well the only way to kill Vader is to use force lightning on him becausevthats all that was shown...

😆 I have posted an example where a wizard attempts to use it on a held object... And it fails. Clearly its not powerful enough...

Because its the only thing shown to do it right? Then only force lightning and lightsabers can hurt Vader.

BTW expelliarmus is not the only thing that can disarm a wizard...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, that's so not my argument. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

No it is completley related. Your assuming that only expelliarmus can be used to disarm a wizard because its the only thing shown to do so. Thats called bull shit.

The prophecy example? Not in the movies. Besides, the prophecy is not a wand, dude. Fail.

That was dark magic Voldemort used, man. Like Dumbledore, he can do magic that other wizards can only dream of. Fail. Big ass fail, dude.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
WTF are you talking about? Are you like seriously retarded or something?

rogue jedi, if there is some sort of problem, then i will have a global mod up in here to have a word with you..

you should not hae to ask for clarification ten pages into a thread i

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
rogue jedi, if there is some sort of problem, then i will have a global mod up in here to have a word with you..

you should not hae to ask for clarification ten pages into a thread i

Also, there's no rule about asking for clarification on the OP, "up in here." The OP was incredibly lacking, man

Frankly, I don't see how it's any of your business.

Here's waht was said:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
We need to know a few things before we proceed.

1. Where the battle takes place.
2. How far are Snape and Vader from each other.
3. Is it a duel, or just a random encounter.
4. Prep or no prep.
5. Do they have knowledge of each other.

These things could swing the thread either way. I'll pm DT and ask him to clarify here. Until then, the debate is pointless.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
why bother worrying about these things when the thread is 10 pages too long?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Uh, the last thing I said.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
then you should have realized that a long time ago instead of now

Your last statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by ares834
No it is completley related. Your assuming that only expelliarmus can be used to disarm a wizard because its the only thing shown to do so. Thats called bull shit.

True its not in the movies. But ultimately it provides an example as why it is not used, that being its not powerful enough a much more logical explenation than the idea that wands stick to their owners hands which is something that has never been shown in the books or movies. And while not shown in the movies, if this Accio idea of yours would work, why didn't they use it on the prophecy? As for the prophecy not being a wand... No shit. Not sure how that invalidates anything its still them attempting to rip an object out of someones hands and failing.

Lulz. Your claiming that only expelliarmus can disarm opponents. I provided a counter example showing that there are other things out there that work as well. Meaning expelliarmus is not some super unique spell and is not the only thing that can disarm someone.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Expelliarmus, in addition to Voldemort disarming Harry, are the only two examples of a wizard being disarmed. Both were done with magic, and neither was remotely resembling a force pull.

OK, and?

You provided an example of Voldemort, the most powerful dark wizard ever, disarming a 16 year old 5th year. Piss poor example.

Originally posted by ares834
So once again you are stating that only magic can disarm a wizard, and ocne again I will say only force lightning can kill Vader... The point is you have to prove your notion that some special connection makes it impossible to pull away a wand. As of yet you haven't done so. Meanwhile the force has been shown to rip objects out of peoples hands. So logically it should work on a wand.

What you are doing now is just like what I tried doing earlier, when I implied that Snape cannot be read by the force. It was a fail argument that would have destroyed alot of threads here in the MVF. I could say "ZOMG JOHN PRESTONS BULLETS WERE NEVER SHOWN KILLING HIT GIRL SO SHE WINS" or "ZOMG THE HULK WAS NEVER SHOWN RESISTING ADAMANTIUM SO WOLVERINE WINS!!!!"

What we have to accept is this: The only way we ever see wizards being disarmed (besides the Voldemort example, which I am astounded that you even tried that), is by Expelliarmus. If a wizard can be disarmed with a force pull, then a Jedi can be just as easily disarmed by expelliarmus. The fact that HP magic is stronger and far more diverse than the force, well, advantage goes to magic.

Besides, Snape has like 4 or 5 wands. If he loses one, he simply A: Pulls out another, B: Apparates away to retrieve another. Whatever the case, if he is disarmed, he'll soon afterwards have a new wand in his possession.

BTW: A simple vanishing spell will...well.....vanish a Jedi.

You were asking me why don't they use accio on wands; so I ask you why don't they use it on the prophecy? In the end its a stupid argument and can be easily attributed to PIS or a weak pull, and not to some hypothetical bullshit you talk about.

No I provided an example that other things beside expelliarmus can disarm a wizard.

All of what you are saying is moot anyway. Snape can cast any spell he wants just as fast as it takes a Jedi to A: Cast a force attack, or B: Do a force pull. Best case scenario is that they DO pull Snape's wand away, but are hit by a death spell a microsecond later.

The posts in this thread make my balls shrivel.

Some prime examples that show how much more powerful Magic is than the Force:

1. Let's say Harry and Anakin are standing side by side in Hogsmeade. Far away, in the castle, is Harry's firebolt and Anakin's lightsaber. Harry can easily use accio to summon his firebolt. Anakin? No way in hell he can force pull his lightsaber from that distance.

2. Magic has one hit spells that can kill you instantly. Avada Kedavra, Reducto, etc; The Force has none.

3. Apparition. a Jedi cannot teleport.

4. Half apparition. A Jedi cannot fly.

5. Legilimens accesses anyone's mind. The only counter is Occlumency. The Jedi mind trick? It can be resisted by many, Hutt's included. Legilimens will turn a Hutt's mind to jelly.

6. A Wizard can create Hocruxes and essentially make themselves immortal. The crap Sidious said about preventing death? Bullshit.

Just a few examples. HP magic>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Force.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's called screen feats, dude. Some things, here at least, we simply accept.

What you are doing now is just like what I tried doing earlier, when I implied that Snape cannot be read by the force. It was a fail argument that would have destroyed alot of threads here in the MVF. I could say "ZOMG JOHN PRESTONS BULLETS WERE NEVER SHOWN KILLING HIT GIRL SO SHE WINS" or "ZOMG THE HULK WAS NEVER SHOWN RESISTING ADAMANTIUM SO WOLVERINE WINS!!!!"

What we have to accept is this: The only way we ever see wizards being disarmed (besides the Voldemort example, which I am astounded that you even tried that), is by Expelliarmus. If a wizard can be disarmed with a force pull, then a Jedi can be just as easily disarmed by expelliarmus.

The fact that HP magic is stronger and far more diverse than the force, well, advantage goes to magic.

Besides, Snape has like 4 or 5 wands. If he loses one, he simply A: Pulls out another, B: Apparates away to retrieve another. Whatever the case, if he is disarmed, he'll soon afterwards have a new wand in his possession.

BTW: A simple vanishing spell will...well.....vanish a Jedi.

Did you even watch Order of the Phoenix? The answer to this is so painfully simple. I'll give you a chance to remember before I embarass you.

You brought Voldemort into the equation. No one else can do what he did. Not in the HP world, not in the SW world. It's a bullshit reach on your part.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. The high end feat of Vader's force choke is when he force choked Padme. Nothing more. Stop saying Vader can snap necks and shit, because he never did.

Snape will be able to talk while being choked ✅

No, becuase he then went on to crush several droids made out of materials easily > a human throat. You keep saying that it doesn't count yet you are full of bullshit so I'm just going to direct you to two posts which you've been unable to reply to:

'Why doesn't it count? Anakin used it. He had no special training or anything. What, do you think its a power you can only use after having all your limbs cut off and then being set on fire, actually weakening your ability to use the Force? And you wonder why I said you don't know much about SW.'

'He crushed something 300,000 times harder than steel. But of course a simple windpipe is above him. 🙄

And he's WEAKER in that scene. And still, theres only so much power being pissed can give you. Unless Vader grew 300,000 times more powerful, he can crush a ****ing windpipe.'

No. See what I just said.

See what I said.

Non verbal spells, dude.

You still need a wand to cast non-verbal spells doofus. I think you mean wandless magic, which Snape has never shown the ability to do. Anakin pulls his wand away and snaps it. Snape might as well surrender after that.

Apparition.

Isn't going to help him.

Watch a HP movie.

Right back at you. Non-verbal spells, rotflol. 🙄

Did Vader ever use these uber reflexes WHILE casting force attacks?

Bullshit, we know he has them, we know he can use them, and he'd still get off an attack before Snape anyway even without them.

It's barely even a debate, any idiot can see Magic is far superior in every way.

OBJECTIVITY! Its really sad how you have this pathetic obsession with proving the above.

The posts in this thread make my balls shrivel.

Mine too. I only hope my own aren't as facepalm-worthy.

Besides, Snape has like 4 or 5 wands.

Where the **** is this shown in the movies? OP says 'his wand' as in singular. As in shut up.