Savage Opress...

Originally posted by truejedi
Actually its a terrible argument here DS. Think about it. If the reason DE is non canon is because the prophecy failed to bring about the complete destruction of the sith, then Legacy is non-canon. (Sith) FOTJ is non-canon (Sith) Lumiya is non canon (Sith) Caedus is non-canon (Sith).

I'm seriously confused as to why you thought that was a good argument. Can you explain?

A Sith revivalism is one thing. Saying that Anakin never destroyed Sidious is just ridiculous.

If Vader didnt destroy Bane's Sith Order which had been ongoing since the time of Bane, then what exactly did the chosen one do in the prophecy??

Originally posted by Nephthys
I hate to ride Nebs coattails, especially now that he's once again been slain,

Slain for what? For being a Bane fan?? Thats ridiculous!

He's a sock.😬

and he declared personal war or something against me in the SWVF. It was kinda weird... I think maybe I finally said something that hurt. 6 years of trolling, and I'M the one that finally gets through to him?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
A Sith revivalism is one thing. Saying that Anakin never destroyed Sidious is just ridiculous.

If Vader didnt destroy Bane's Sith Order which had been ongoing since the time of Bane, then what exactly did the chosen one do in the prophecy??

It is ridiculous, I agree, but we can hardly declare it non-canon. Star Wars takes care of its own ret-conning. I have been saying it, and Legacy should both be ret-conned for a long time, but it doesn't make it happen. Besides, the One Sith were still alive when Sidious "died" so Anakin never destroyed the sith anyway.

We can't choose where to draw that line. Its up to star wars, and they chose not to so far. I'm not going to pull a Gideon and start disregarding things I don't think make sense, or this place turns into a screaming match.

Originally posted by truejedi
Actually its a terrible argument here DS. Think about it. If the reason DE is non canon is because the prophecy failed to bring about the complete destruction of the sith, then Legacy is non-canon. (Sith) FOTJ is non-canon (Sith) Lumiya is non canon (Sith) Caedus is non-canon (Sith).

I'm seriously confused as to why you thought that was a good argument. Can you explain?

GL's word is law. There is no getting around that fact. If he's said that the prophecy to destroy the Sith has been completed then it has, end of discussion.

So are you seriously trying to ret-con all of the above? No Legacy, No Caedus, Lumiya, No One Sith. No LOTF. No Fotj? Is that seriously your claim, 2 days after you spent all this time saying "screw chee, it all stays canon?"

not to mention the Tribe... nobody destroyed them either. And Ship, who was a sith..

Honestly, you started this shit about things being non canon. We (or at least I did) offered to just ignore it but you've brought it up again and again. Now you have to sleep in the bed you've made.

I did not. Blax did. I was mocking the quote for awhile, but that's about all.

Originally posted by truejedi
So are you seriously trying to ret-con all of the above? No Legacy, No Caedus, Lumiya, No One Sith. No LOTF. No Fotj? Is that seriously your claim, 2 days after you spent all this time saying "screw chee, it all stays canon?"

Chee is one thing, but Lucas' word is law. Besides, Lumiya and Caedus weren't actual sith anyway imo. They'd stay.

they were declared Sith by out of Universive omnipotent narrators. There is no getting around that.

Originally posted by truejedi
Besides, the One Sith were still alive when Sidious "died" so Anakin never destroyed the sith anyway.

The One being Anakin?? He destroyed himself as well, and in any case had already turned back to the light side before he destroyed Sidious.

This is what Kevin J Anderson has wrote in the prologue of my Dark Empire back from the 90's:

"When you read Dark Empire, or any of the other novels, remember that although Lucasfilm has approved them, these ARE OUR SEQUELS, NOT George Lucas's. If Lucasfilm ever make films that take place after Return of the Jedi, they will be George Lucas's own creations, probably with no connection to anything we have written."

Now sequels were never made since then, but prequels were, which gave us the prophecy of the chosen one destroying the sith, completely ignoring Dark Empire, and rendering it non-canon as far as im concerned.

The above quote also shows there was no level of canonicity at all when Dark Empire was written.

Originally posted by truejedi
they were declared Sith by out of Universive omnipotent narrators. There is no getting around that.

Bane's Order can be destroyed, but the dark side will always be there, so it is probably inevitable, that there will always be dark jedi intrigued by and trying to revive sith teachings, who will call themselves sith.

Whether they in fact are sith is something else, and doesnt really matter. But Vader destroyed Bane's Sith Order which had been ongoing for a thousand years.

By ROTJ for the first time in thousands of years there were no Sith, they were destroyed by the chosen one, thus fulfilling the prophecy.
Whereas if we believe DE then Sidious's concious was merely transferred to a clone body when Vader threw him into the reactor, in which case the Sith were never destroyed rendering the Prophecy non-canon.

Id rather take DE as non-canon than Lucas's main prophecy for the entire sage.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Bane's Order can be destroyed, but the dark side will always be there, so it is probably inevitable, that there will always be dark jedi intrigued by and trying to revive sith teachings, who will call themselves sith.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Whether they in fact are sith is something else, and doesnt really matter. But Vader destroyed Bane's Sith Order which had been ongoing for a thousand years.

So you mean to tell me that Krayt nearly bringing the galaxy under his heels is no big deal because he was not apart of Bane's order? He was no threat to peace because Because Bane did not recognize him as a true sith?

Lucas never said being apart of Bane's order is what causes the imbalance. He said the dark side is the imbalance, and the sith are dark side users so they cause the imbalance.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
By ROTJ for the first time in thousands of years there were no Sith, they were destroyed by the chosen one, thus fulfilling the prophecy.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Whereas if we believe DE then Sidious's concious was merely transferred to a clone body when Vader threw him into the reactor, in which case the Sith were never destroyed rendering the Prophecy non-canon.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Id rather take DE as non-canon than Lucas's main prophecy for the entire sage.

Sorry, but we do not have that authority. Only Chee and Lucas have that authority. So far DE is still considered c-canon. You guys can continue to argue about it, but you won't get far.

And if we go strictly by Lucas' vision then we would have to ignore ALL eu material that take place after the movies. Lucas said that Vader's sacrafice would restore peace to the galaxy. But as far as the EU is concerned, this never happens.

Lucas is basically telling us that as far as he is concerned, he does not care about the EU. His main focus his about Vader's story, which is his story (his universe). But for fan-sake, he allows other authors to write EU material, and then hires others to fit it into canon and keep track of it for us. But he is also letting us know that if he were the one to make a sequel, it would be different then what other authors write. But as far as he is concerned his story is over.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The One being Anakin?? He destroyed himself as well, and in any case had already turned back to the light side before he destroyed Sidious.

What? no, the One Sith Order on Korriban. (Krayt's order...)

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Bane's Order can be destroyed, but the dark side will always be there, so it is probably inevitable, that there will always be dark jedi intrigued by and trying to revive sith teachings, who will call themselves sith.

Whether they in fact are sith is something else, and doesnt really matter. But Vader destroyed Bane's Sith Order which had been ongoing for a thousand years.

I actually LIKE this. It makes for a cool reason for the prophecy. But in all honesty, I don't think its enough to rule things that are canon, noncanon, just because it would be cool. Maul not getting cut in half like a loser would be cool too, but its still canon.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Lucas would not agree with you here. According to him, the dark side is like a cancer in the force and is what causes the imbalance. The sith bring imbalance because of their heavy use of the dark side. They do not cause the imbalance because they are Bane's order.

I wasnt even taking about bringing balance to the Force. I was talking about destroying the Sith part of the Prophecy, which isnt as obscure as the "Bringing Balance" part of the prophecy, but its quite clear cut what that part means. According to DE he never destroyed the Sith.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So you mean to tell me that Krayt nearly bringing the galaxy under his heels is no big deal because he was not apart of Bane's order? He was no threat to peace because Because Bane did not recognize him as a true sith?

Thats not even close to what I mean. If he destroyed Sidious then at least he destroyed the sith in his time, and for the first time in thousands of years there were no sith! he destroyed not only the most powerful sith in history, but that whole cult which had been in hiding and ongoing for 1000 years! Thats something! What DE is saying is HE DESTROYED NOTHING, because he never even killed Sidious!!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Whereas if we believe anything after ROTJ, it would render the prophecy non-canon. Or so it would seem. We don't know enough about the prophecy yet

We know it says Anakin destroys the Sith! LOL! According to you and DE thats not true. I think il believe the prophecy over you or DE.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You're wanting us to turn c-canon material into non-canon?

And your wanting to make C-Canon just as canon as G-Canon. You have no respect for the levels of canonicity, so it is a wonder you even use the letters C, G before Canon.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sorry, but we do not have that authority. Only Chee and Lucas have that authority.

And wasnt it Lucas who said that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy by killing the sith, and that the emporer never gets cloned?? Urmm yes it was.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So far DE is still considered c-canon. You guys can continue to argue about it, but you won't get far.

A C-canon which has been nullified by a G-Canon source. I think its you guys who need to stop treating any previous piece of canon no matter how weak as the gospel of the SWU. Its only Lucas's words and the G-Canon stuff that is the gospel for all the SWU.

Look it was a C- Canon source before ROTS that claimed Ki-Adi-Mundi was the first Knight(not master) on the council. That was nullified by ROTS when we learned Anakin was THE FIRST KNIGHT on the council. So answer this question, is that C-Canon source of Mundi's Jedi Status on the Council still Canon??

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
But he is also letting us know that if he were the one to make a sequel, it would be different then what other authors write. But as far as he is concerned his story is over.

Like with the prequels and the new animation Lucas takes what he likes from the EU, and ignores/contradicts what he likes.
That means when it clearly contradicts his stuff its rendered non-canon. When it doesnt its fine to consider it canon, if it wasnt he wuldnt occasionaly steal stuff from the EU, like names, characters e.t.c.
End of the day Lucas and all G-Canon source is the Gospel and Source material for all of the EU. Its time you accepted and respected that.

Originally posted by truejedi
What? no, the One Sith Order on Korriban. (Krayt's order...)

Right I just read about Darth Krayt, and I officially have nothing left to say. That not only contradicts the prophecy but also the rule of two!

But The only palusible explanation would still be that the prophecy refers to Bane's order which lead to the most powerful sith of all time taking control of the galaxy. But that still requires rendering DE non canon.

Otherwise the EU is just all a big contradiction to the movies, and not even worth paying attention to.