Originally posted by Robtard
Also gotta keep it as real as possible (yeah, I know the thread subject makes that a lol), you'll likely get your hands on an M-16 or M-4 before an AK-47, at least in the US.There's also the extremely high possibility that unless you already own military gear or have direct access to the military, you're likely never get access to an assault rifle, grenades, grenade launchers, C4 etc. etc. etc.
So hunting/sport rifles and shotguns and common handguns is likely what most will be working with.
But DDM.
Just remember I got dibs on your ass.
Originally posted by dadudemonSo you'd just carry it in your hand? What if you needed both hands?
Why would I holster a gun with a clip that runs mostly perpendicular to the form of the gun?
Why would I not do the obvious: remove the clip first?And where you gonna store that behemoth of a clip?
This is the part that I refused to tell you that I thought you would eventually get because I knew exactly what you were going for, but saw it as a massive oversight on your part.I ate a samwich.
I also did not tell you because you would come up with some lame thinking like this: "Why would you holster and carry around a gun that does not have ammo?"See? Lame choice for a weapon. If it jams, you're screwed.
Why would you holster the gun without putting a real clip on it, first, and setting the safety? The magazine could easily fit somewhere else, as could the standard 10-12 round magazine or the usual (for the auto-glock 18) 33-round magazine. I would keep the 4 spare 200 round magazines somewhere else or even on my person. I would probably store all four in my hiking backpack. I would carry one 33 round magazine in the gun and one on my hip.Those 200 round mags are laptop sized. It's just not feasible to lug that shit around.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you'd just carry it in your hand? What if you needed both hands?And where you gonna store that behemoth of a clip?
I ate a samwich.
See? Lame choice for a weapon. If it jams, you're screwed.
Those 200 round mags are laptop sized. It's just not feasible to lug that shit around.
Those 200 round mags are tiny. They are smaller than both my fists. Yet, they are laptop sized? What kind of laptop do you have: A preschooler's Fisher-Price toy?
It's just not feasible to lug around a 12-gauge and the bulky ammo from a shotgun. You get more shots at much higher velocities with a 200 round magazine. Even if you store the mags (which also function as nice ammo packs: two birds with one stone) in your hiking backpack, it's still a far better option than a 12-gauge.
The 12-gauge is probably one of the worst guns you can select for a ZA. Don't you watch Milla in her RE movies?
I don't want to be "that" guy, but, is this thread supposed to discuss like, a hypothetical "If there was a zombie apocalypse and you had 50 million dollars how would you survive it" scenario, or is it supposed to be more of a... realistic breakdown?
'cause... if we can just throw whatever out there like most people in here then to hell with my skyscraper idea. I'd just take a rocket and board the ISS and watch the fallout from orbit. 😐
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I don't want to be "that" guy, but, is this thread supposed to discuss like, a hypothetical "If there was a zombie apocalypse and you had 50 million dollars how would you survive it" scenario, or is it supposed to be more of a... realistic breakdown?'cause... if we can just throw whatever out there like most people in here then to hell with my skyscraper idea. I'd just take a rocket and board the ISS and watch the fallout from orbit. 😐
It's supposed to be realistic. Ergo, my "realistic" list of 52 items. However, people are injecting unrealistic items into the thread more for fun and humor than seriousness.
RJ: His father has lots of guns. It is realistic for him to state he would use such and such gun from his father's arsenal.
DDM: He said he would use the Mark VI Ironman. It is unrealistic and was only intended to one-up anyone that spoke about having some sort of protective armor.
Well I wasn't really referring to your Iron Man thing or anything like that, but, what are the odds that someone is gonna get decked out in like military/police issue body armor and ferarri's with mini-guns attached to them and shit-
You know, honestly, I think I'm just being an ******* more than anything.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Well I wasn't really referring to your Iron Man thing or anything like that, but, what are the odds that someone is gonna get decked out in like military/police issue body armor and ferarri's with mini-guns attached to them and shit-You know, honestly, I think I'm just being an ******* more than anything.
Nah. They are just having fun in fantasy land.
You're not being an ass. They know that they will never get access to that.
Originally posted by dadudemonYour fists aren't that big, dude. You aren't Marv from Sin City. The 200 round clip is HUGE.
Those 200 round mags are tiny. They are smaller than both my fists. Yet, they are laptop sized? What kind of laptop do you have: A preschooler's Fisher-Price toy?
It's just not feasible to lug around a 12-gauge and the bulky ammo from a shotgun.A Winchester defender weighs about 6.5-7 pounds. Lose the stock and it's about 5'5 pounds. A fully loaded glock weighs about 2.5-3 pounds.
As for the ammo:
You get more shots at much higher velocities with a 200 round magazine. Even if you store the mags (which also function as nice ammo packs: two birds with one stone) in your hiking backpack, it's still a far better option than a 12-gauge.
12 gauge: Mass destruction, guaranteed zombie killer.
Glock: MUST be a headshot.
The 12-gauge is probably one of the worst guns you can select for a ZA. Don't you watch Milla in her RE movies?
FF to 3:00.....
FF to 1:47, then to 2:40....
Took his head clean off.
Pwned.
As for a rifle, the Ruger Mini 14:
Semi auto, good for CQC and long range. Best of both worlds. Weighs 6ish pounds, is easy to operate, reliable, and can be fixed with a bayonet. Also has 30, 40, even 100 round magazines. 😄
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Your fists aren't that big, dude. You aren't Marv from Sin City. The 200 round clip is HUGE.
Your eyes are too small, then. It's not the big. You can clearly see that size of the drums and you can look up the drums, online.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A Winchester defender weighs about 6.5-7 pounds. Lose the stock and it's about 5'5 pounds. A fully loaded glock weighs about 2.5-3 pounds.
A glock 18, with 200 rounds, and the modded ammo mag, weighs slightly less than 5 pounds.
The round used weighs 7.45 grams per bullet.
7.45*200 = 1490 grams.
1490 /1000 - 1.49 Kg
1.49*2.2lbs = 2.278 lbs ~ 2.3 lbs
Glock 18, no mag, weighs 620 grams
620 / 1000 = .62 Kg
.62 * 2.2 lbs = 1.364 lbs ~ 1.36 lbs
200 round magazine, empty weighs ~ 1.32 lbs
1.32 + 1.36 + 2.3 = 4.98 lbs
So, I have a gun that has many more shots, a ridiculously higher stopping power, weighs less, is far more accurate, is lighter, has a far higher slug velocity, and has a much smaller profile.
The only area that he shotgun has it beat in is the less than 10 yard destruction: at less than 10 yards, you can blow off body parts.
Let's look at your stockless 8-shot shotgun (we'll go with a Remington 870, because it is very common and reliable.)
Losing the stock, which is very light, would lose you about 1 lb, at most.
The gun weighs between 7-8lbs.
We have to go with the 7.5lbs (marine and supermag versions) version as that holds the 6 shots and the 7 holds 3. Unless you want to go with the super mag and that weighs also weighs 7.5lbs? We can go with that one as that would be a better choice (more shots).
Each 12-gauge buckshot round weighs 1.2 ounces.
A fully loaded Remington 870 super mag (12 shots) weighs
1 ounce = 28.35 grams
using the same math I did above, that equates to about .9 lbs added.
So the gun weighs 8.4 lbs.
So what about the ammo belt you posted? How much does that weigh?
It looks to hold 58 rounds
That equates to 69.6 ounces.
Again, using the same math, that's 4.38 lbs for the ammo belt.
Total weight for a loaded Remington 870 super mag with an ammo belt: 4.38+8.4 = 12.78 lbs. Total shots: 70. Total time to reload all of those shots: a shit load of time.
Lose the stock, which is a very stupid idea to begin with, and you lose, at best, .5lbs, for the supermag. (it is usually a synthetic stock and equates to a little more than .5 lbs. You can get a wooden one, but that would increase the weight of the gun to a little more than 8lbs, so the end number would not change: the gun would drop by a net .5lbs anyway.)
As you can see, it is much more effective to carry the auto glock 18 with 200 rounds than it is your shotgun. It weighs much less than your combo (ultra important if you are having to hike everywhere you go: a highly likely scenario).
Mine weighs 4.98 and yours weighs 12.78. Even if you subtract the buttstock, which is a VERY bad idea, your combo still weighs 12.28 lbs. Yours weighs almost 2.5 times more than mine does. Guess what? I can throw in 2 EXTRA 200 round mags, fully loaded, and still come in with less weight than your single loaded shotgun and ammo belt.
Let's not forget that I can reload far faster than you can. Let's also not forget that I can use an autoloader that weighs next to nothing. While you add your shells one at a time. hehehehehehehe
In other words, I just pwned the shit out of you.
You'll need this:
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
12 gauge: Mass destruction, guaranteed zombie killer.Glock: MUST be a headshot.
Wrong. And boy how you're wrong.
Shotgun must be a head shot. Only at close range (less than 10 yards) would it be lethal.
You are also hindered by longer shots that will not have immediate killing effects because the bullets will not sink in enough.
The zombie type most likely to exist, I can fire anywhere on the "killing" spots and it can kill at many many yards out. You'll start to fail at anything beyond 10 yards for an immediate death due to the loss of the pattern (tighter pattern can equate to utter destruction) and loss of pellet velocity. While the zombies you hit will eventually die from blood loss or other damage, they won't die quickly for, say, being shot through the heart or brain.
So not only are you choosing a very shitty weapon, you're also only considering the weapon at less than 10 yards being the only measure of effectiveness. At less than 10 yards, you are literally at the worst possible scenario. You do not want to engage any zombies at less than 10 yards.
So, you have to have head shots or heart shots, as well, at less than 10 yards, and suck it up big time at anything over 10 yards.
Complete fail and complete suck on your choice of weapon.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
FF to 3:00.....
1. You're using a movie to show the effectiveness of a weapon? 😬
2. And how many weapons did she go through before she used her shotgun? You do realize that her first choices were everything BUT a shotgun, right? Also, what were her options AFTER she fired?
She would have been far better off having reloads for her handguns than two sawed off shotguns. She could have better used the "weight" added to her body by giving her self more easy to reload shots.
But, let's be real: she had those guns because it looked far cooler to use two sawed off shotguns than it would have to quickly reload to auto handguns.
Oh, wait, it didn't. 😐
See Hit Girl's hallway shootout scene or John Preston's hallway shootout scene for far cooler reload scenes.
Now do you see why your choice is complete fail?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
FF to 1:47, then to 2:40....Took his head clean off.
Pwned.
That's made of fail.
That's not what would happen at that range.
lol
hahahaha
You just tried to pwn me with "hollywood awesome stunts but they defy physics". hahahahahaha
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
As for a rifle, the Ruger Mini 14:Semi auto, good for CQC and long range. Best of both worlds. Weighs 6ish pounds, is easy to operate, reliable, and can be fixed with a bayonet. Also has 30, 40, even 100 round magazines. 😄
Now you're getting the hang of it. Much better choice.
Yes, I just pwned the shit out of you, RJ.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Your eyes are too small, then. It's not the big. You can clearly see that size of the drums and you can look up the drums, online.
Can't find anything as far as the weight goes, but I'll go with your figure of 1.32 pounds, empty.
And look below:
The damn thing is way too big, it's easily 1.5 size of dude's fist. How you gonna carry extra 200 round mags on you? Do they make utility vests with 200 round mag pouches?
A glock 18, with 200 rounds, and the modded ammo mag, weighs slightly less than 5 pounds.
I got the following figures:
Glock 18: 1.36 pounds
200 rounds of 9mm ammo: 3.29 pounds (I used a higher grain bullet, which would be a wiser choice.)
Empty 200 round mag: 1.32 pounds
Sum total: 5.97 pounds fully loaded with a 200 round magazine.
So, I have a gun that has many more shots, a ridiculously higher stopping power, weighs less, is far more accurate, is lighter, has a far higher slug velocity, and has a much smaller profile.A shotgun has more stopping power than a 9mm, dude.
Let's look at your stockless 8-shot shotgun (we'll go with a Remington 870, because it is very common and reliable.)No, let's go with the Model 1300 Defender, my original choice: http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=109
Losing the stock, which is very light, would lose you about 1 lb, at most.Agreed.
The gun weighs between 7-8lbs.No, it weighs 6.5 pounds empty, 5.5 without the stock (pistol grip attachment.)
Each 12-gauge buckshot round weighs 1.2 ounces.Mhm.
Empty Winchester Defender with pistol grip attachment: 5.5 pounds.
8-12 gauge rounds: .6 pounds.
Fully loaded Model 1300 Defender: 6.1 pounds.
So what about the ammo belt you posted? How much does that weigh?Let's go with this one, it's lighter, and holds 50 rounds: Shotgun Bandoleer: http://www.dncdistributor.com/Shotgun_Bandoliers.html
50 rounds of 12 gauge ammo: 3.75 pounds.
Ammo belt: Maybe 1/2 pound.
Sum total for the ammo belt and 50 rounds: 4.25 pounds.
Lose the stock, which is a very stupid idea to begin withBullshit, if anything, it improves the weapon greatly.
As you can see, it is much more effective to carry the auto glock 18 with 200 rounds than it is your shotgun. It weighs much less than your combo (ultra important if you are having to hike everywhere you go: a highly likely scenario).No, it isn't.
Mine weighs 4.98 and yours weighs 12.78. Even if you subtract the buttstock, which is a VERY bad idea, your combo still weighs 12.28 lbs. Yours weighs almost 2.5 times more than mine does. Guess what? I can throw in 2 EXTRA 200 round mags, fully loaded, and still come in with less weight than your single loaded shotgun and ammo belt.Pistol grip>>>>>Buttstock. TWO extra 200 round mags? haermm
So your carrying this Glock around with a 200 round mag, compared to me carrying around a Model 1300 with a sling. I can sling the rifle, you can't holster a Glock with a 200 round mag.
Let's not forget that I can reload far faster than you can. Let's also not forget that I can use an autoloader that weighs next to nothing. While you add your shells one at a time. heheheheheheheIf someone shoots all 8 of heir shotgun shells, then all 100 of their Mini 14 rounds, then empties their pistol and still is in trouble, they deserve to die.
In other words, I just pwned the shit out of you.
Wrong. And boy how you're wrong.Observe:Shotgun must be a head shot. Only at close range (less than 10 yards) would it be lethal.
12 gauge against a porcelain toliet:
.45 ACP against porcelain toilet:
12 gauge disintegrated the toilet with one shot at about 20 yards out. The .45, which is more powerful than a 9mm, it merely chipped away at the toilet.
Any questions?
You are also hindered by longer shots that will not have immediate killing effects because the bullets will not sink in enough.I'll have the Mini 14. Pwned.
The zombie type most likely to exist, I can fire anywhere on the "killing" spots and it can kill at many many yards out. You'll start to fail at anything beyond 10 yards for an immediate death due to the loss of the pattern (tighter pattern can equate to utter destruction) and loss of pellet velocity. While the zombies you hit will eventually die from blood loss or other damage, they won't die quickly for, say, being shot through the heart or brain.Wrong, the shotgun has longer range than 10 yards, see the vid I just posted.
Yeah, go ahead and gamble by shooting at spots that will kill a human. The survivors? We'll be taking heads of with one shot.
So not only are you choosing a very shitty weapon, you're also only considering the weapon at less than 10 yards being the only measure of effectiveness. At less than 10 yards, you are literally at the worst possible scenario. You do not want to engage any zombies at less than 10 yards.Wrong again. See what I just said.
So, you have to have head shots or heart shots, as well, at less than 10 yards, and suck it up big time at anything over 10 yards.Wrong again, say my name.
Complete fail and complete suck on your choice of weapon.How you figure?
Fully loaded Glock with 200 round mag: 5.97 pounds.
Fully loaded Model 1300 Defender: 6.1 pounds.
So mine weighs less than 1/4 more.
Fully loaded 200 round Glock mag: 4.61 pounds.
Bandoleer with 50 shotgun shells: 4.25 pounds.
Yeah, my ammo belt weighs less than your spare 200 round mag.
So, fully loaded, the weapons weigh roughly the same. My spare ammo weighs less though.
So your carrying this Glock around with a 200 round mag, compared to me carrying around a Model 1300 with a sling. I can sling the rifle, you can't holster a Glock with a 200 round mag.
1. You're using a movie to show the effectiveness of a weapon? 😬Hey, you asked to see when Milla used shotguns in her RE movies, I did. Want real life footage? See the vids I posted.
2. And how many weapons did she go through before she used her shotgun? You do realize that her first choices were everything BUT a shotgun, right? Also, what were her options AFTER she fired?She would have been far better off having reloads for her handguns than two sawed off shotguns. She could have better used the "weight" added to her body by giving her self more easy to reload shots.
But, let's be real: she had those guns because it looked far cooler to use two sawed off shotguns than it would have to quickly reload to auto handguns.
Oh, wait, it didn't. 😐
See Hit Girl's hallway shootout scene or John Preston's hallway shootout scene for far cooler reload scenes.
Now do you see why your choice is complete fail?
Now you're getting the hang of it. Much better choice.Much better than anything you named, babe.
Yes, I just pwned the shit out of you, RJ.No, you really didn't.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Can't find anything as far as the weight goes, but I'll go with your figure of 1.32 pounds, empty.And look below:
The damn thing is way too big, it's easily 1.5 size of dude's fist. How you gonna carry extra 200 round mags on you? Do they make utility vests with 200 round mag pouches?
Doesn't look any bigger than his balled up fist and it looks smaller than my balled up fist.
On top of that, the thing is rather flat which makes it far easier to store.
(Yes, I did see the name of your image file. teehee)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I got the following figures:Glock 18: 1.36 pounds
200 rounds of 9mm ammo: 3.29 pounds (I used a higher grain bullet, which would be a wiser choice.)
Empty 200 round mag: 1.32 pounds
Sum total: 5.97 pounds fully loaded with a 200 round magazine.
I used a lighter round because I was going for penetration power, not as much weight as possible. I wanted a higher velocity round.
Also, I made a typo on the round calculation, which carried over into my final weight: it is 3.2, not 2.3.
The gun weighs, with the 200 rounds, 5.97lbs, not 4.98.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A shotgun has more stopping power than a 9mm, dude.
Depends on the gun. Shot for shot, yeah...but this isn't a shot for shot comparison, now is it?
Nice try.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, let's go with the Model 1300 Defender, my original choice: http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=109
You do know that it weighs 7.5lbs, as well, right? 🤨
With a special pistol grip, it drops the weight to 6.5 lbs. 😐
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/historic-detail.asp?family=012C&mid=512907
Weight: 6 lbs 8 ounces.
You also have less ammo.
😐
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Agreed.
As if I would gimp your gun choice. 😐
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, it weighs 6.5 pounds empty, 5.5 without the stock (pistol grip attachment.)
You're wrong.
It weighs 6.5 lbs with the pistol grip. I just proved it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm.Empty Winchester Defender with pistol grip attachment: 5.5 pounds.
8-12 gauge rounds: .6 pounds.
Fully loaded Model 1300 Defender: 6.1 pounds.
Wrong and no you are lying. Yes, you are going out of your way to lie because I know you've seen the same things I have. Bad form.
6.5 lbs.
With the 8 shots, that's an additional .6 lbs.
7.1 lbs.
Thank you, come again.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Let's go with this one, it's lighter, and holds 50 rounds: Shotgun Bandoleer: http://www.dncdistributor.com/Shotgun_Bandoliers.html50 rounds of 12 gauge ammo: 3.75 pounds.
Ammo belt: Maybe 1/2 pound.
Sum total for the ammo belt and 50 rounds: 4.25 pounds for just the rounds, alone.
The other belt carried 58 rounds for a weight of 4.34lbs for a difference of .6 lbs.
The ammo is 3.77 lbs.
I could not find a figure on the ammo belt so I left it out of the figures because, unlike you, I'm not dishonest during debates just to win.
Wasn't that nice of me?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Bullshit, if anything, it improves the weapon greatly.
Oh really?
Shotguns 101: Pistol grips lower your control and accuracy.
Prove that the pistol grip improves your control and accuracy.
While you find a shit ton of blogs and forums describing how unsafe it can be and how accuracy is lost, come back and admit you want to take a bad idea and make it even worse by changing the stock to a pistol grip.
You watch too many movies, dude.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, it isn't.
You have to respond with something more than a "nuh-uhhh!" Fact is, I'm right on all points and the best you can come up with is a "No, it isn't."
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Pistol grip>>>>>Buttstock. TWO extra 200 round mags? haermm
Pistol grip <<<<<<<<< buttstock unless you like a bruised hand, loss of accuracy, and less control.
Good job.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So your carrying this Glock around with a 200 round mag, compared to me carrying around a Model 1300 with a sling. I can sling the rifle, you can't holster a Glock with a 200 round mag.
I can holster the glock and the ammo while taking up less space and weight on my body while you can't.
I can only concede that I have to holster the ammo separately due it taking a perpendicular angle to the gun profile.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If someone shoots all 8 of heir shotgun shells, then all 100 of their Mini 14 rounds, then empties their pistol and still is in trouble, they deserve to die.
Meanwhile, I'll still have 92 shots left in one mag with 2 more 200 round mags to spare. That's not including the my selection on an assault rifle. 🙂
Yup, victory tastes good for me. WEEEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEE!
And, yes, that person deserves to die: they should have made a better gun selection choice.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not really.
Yeah, really. And I caught you lying to try and win an argument which is bad form.
On top of that, you tried to gimp and I did not. I gave you a better shotgun choice with a larger mag (with a synthetic stock to save weight) and you gave me a slower ammo with less penetration power that weighed more. Bad form and very dishonest/asinine of you.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Observe:12 gauge against a porcelain toliet:
.45 ACP against porcelain toilet:
12 gauge disintegrated the toilet with one shot at about 20 yards out. The .45, which is more powerful than a 9mm, it merely chipped away at the toilet.
Any questions?
Nope, no questions.
Just would like to point out several logical fallacies on your part:
The toilet did not disintegrate: the front portion got blown off and the majority of it fell off the back of the stand.
What does that tell us? It carries lots of inertia, but low penetration power...just like I've telling you.
The round I would use has a much much higher velocity (second highest used in Glock 18s) and has much higher velocity than all but the most powerful colt .45 rounds.
The toilet shattered at the point it made contact because the toilet is brittle and multiple points striking would cause it to shatter much more easily than just firing one of the buck shot items at a time. That was a very dishonest way for you to present your argument because you definitely know that.
Fire it into a slab of meat at 10 yards out and the meat definitely does not explode. Some chunks fly off, sure, but not the destruction that you're trying to portray.
Watch Mythbusters? Yeah, cause they did that.
Now why would I want more penetration to weight ratio? Hmmm?
Ah, that's right: hit targets behind targets. WEEEEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE Even more pwnage. Yeah, I'm that awesome: I thought that far ahead into the discussion.
The round I chose can comfortable go through two bodies.
Good luck doing that with a 12-gauge buckshot at more than 10 yards.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'll have the Mini 14. Pwned.
Works for me but it is not my first choice in a rifle.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wrong, the shotgun has longer range than 10 yards, see the vid I just posted.
Dishonest, I never said that shotgun had 0 effectiveness at more than 10 yards.
Go back and re-read what I posted to understand what I was actually saying. 😐
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, go ahead and gamble by shooting at spots that will kill a human. The survivors? We'll be taking heads of with one shot.
Yeah, go ahead and gamble that you'll hit the head with a pistol grip on a 12-gauge.
Meanwhile, I'll aim for the head and chest and kill every time.
The survivors? Laughing at all the idiots that played too many games and watched too many movies, thinking that a 12-gauge shotgun was a good choice to bring to a ZA.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wrong again. See what I just said.
You did not counter what I said.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wrong again, say my name.
You did not respond to anything I said.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How you figure?Fully loaded Glock with 200 round mag: 5.97 pounds.
Fully loaded Model 1300 Defender: 6.1 pounds.
So mine weighs less than 1/4 more.
Glock 18 with 200 round mag = 4.98 pounds.
Your shotgun loaded with 8 rounds with a pistol grip: 7.1 lbs
Again, bad form on your part.
Adjusting from the Remington to the Winchester, it's only a 1.3lbs difference
So you go from 12.78 lbs to 11.48 lbs
But, nope, you won't stop there, you want to lighten the load even more because you realize how stupid of an idea it is...so we will drop it down to the 50 round belt by .6 lbs. That's 10.88 lbs.
And a proper comparison would be with the ammo belt because there's no way you'll be able to stand up to as many as I would with only 8 shots. Nor will you be able to carry as much ammo as I will at the same weight: not even close.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Fully loaded 200 round Glock mag: 4.61 pounds.Bandoleer with 50 shotgun shells: 4.25 pounds.
Yeah, my ammo belt weighs less than your spare 200 round mag.
No it doesn't. It weighs 5.97 lbs.
And your ammo belt has 1/4 as many shots and the ammo is not as accurate. At 100 yards, you have a strong chance to miss your target entirely. I can always go semi-auto at any time I want to whereas you're stuck at pump action and reloading every 8 shots. ha!
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So, fully loaded, the weapons weigh roughly the same. My spare ammo weighs less though.So your carrying this Glock around with a 200 round mag, compared to me carrying around a Model 1300 with a sling. I can sling the rifle, you can't holster a Glock with a 200 round mag.
They do not weigh roughly the same, fully loaded. 7.1-5.97 = 1.13 lbs.
While you run out of ammo in only 8 shots, I can continue to shoot forever and ever. On top of that, I always have the option to go full auto.
I also have a spare ammo case (due to you using a shotgun with less space for ammo and a smaller ammo belt, I had to cut my spare down to one spare to stay under the weight of your combo) with an additional 200 rounds.
While you just let your shotgun dangle, I'll have a nice holster that keeps my glock secure and a secure slot for my ammo mags. You can fidget and get tired with a loose gun that constantly dangles while my movements are only hindered by the weight of what I carry. 🙂
But, go on pretending that being able to sling a shotgun around with a shoulder strap is a good idea because it looks cool in movies. I'll secure my so it doesn't flop around. 😬
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, you asked to see when Milla used shotguns in her RE movies, I did. Want real life footage? See the vids I posted.
And you fell for the trap.
The trap was to get you to bring up her using every single gun except for the shotguns, first.
Why did I do this:
1. You love Milla and she can't do wrong.
2. You seem to get all your info from the RE movies.
3. Prove to you from your own source material that he shotguns were bad choices.
4. It was for looks, not function.
*Cracks knuckles*
I'm awesome. heheheehehehheheewfasdf adsf
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Much better than anything you named, babe.
Incorrect. I haven't "chosen" my rifle, yet. 😉
I actually have, I have just not listed it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, you really didn't.
Actually, I really did. You need some preparation H because even with you:
1. Lying.
2. Gimping my side.
3. Choosing other items to make your side look better.
You still got horribly raped.
On top of this, this was with me making a calculation error (which you did not catch, but I did, and corrected it, because I'm that honest.)
But, you go on thinking you'll take on the hordes with an 8 round shotgun and a 50 round ammo belt. Looks cool in movies, though, doesn't it?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Glock 18 with 200 round mag = 4.98 pounds.Your shotgun loaded with 8 rounds with a pistol grip: 7.1 lbs
The Defender weighs 6.5 pounds. Take away a pound when removing the stock, that's 5.5 pounds. Add on 1/4 pound (guesstimate) when adding the pistol grip, that's 5.75 pounds.
8 rounds of 12 gauge double ought weighs around 1 ounce. 1 ounce=0.062499 pounds. 8 times 0.062499=.5 pounds.
5.75 pounds + .5 pounds= 6.25 pounds. This is the weight of a fully loaded Model 1300 Defender. Where are you getting 7.1 pounds?
And if you choose a lighter grain bullet, you are losing stopping power. Earlier you said you preferred stopping power, now you're going with penetration. Interesting.
Anyway, the Model 1300 weighs 6.25 pounds fully loaded. The Glock 18 (trusting your math on this one) weighs 4.98 pounds fully loaded with the lulz 200 round drum. You're splitting hairs over 1.26 pounds.
You're forgetting that the shotgun has a sling and that I'll likely have it slung on one shoulder while carrying it around or shooting it. That cuts down on the weight you have to carry with your arms, it distributes the weight evenly over your entire body.
But, nope, you won't stop there, you want to lighten the load even more because you realize how stupid of an idea it is...so we will drop it down to the 50 round belt by .6 lbs. That's 10.88 lbs.I chose the 50 rounder because it looks cooler ✅And a proper comparison would be with the ammo belt because there's no way you'll be able to stand up to as many as I would with only 8 shots. Nor will you be able to carry as much ammo as I will at the same weight: not even close.
You do now that if you are firing away full auto with a Glock 18, at least 1/2 your shots are either going to: Be off mark, or miss entirely, yes? You're not Bob Lee Swagger, dude. The constant recoil will throw off your aim.
No it doesn't. It weighs 5.97 lbs.The bandoleer weighs maybe 1/2 pound. 50 12 gauge shells weighs 3.12 pounds. (1 ounce each, 1 ounce=0.062499pounds, 50 x 0.062499= 3.12 pounds.
Sum total, roughly 3.5 pounds.
And your ammo belt has 1/4 as many shots and the ammo is not as accurate. At 100 yards, you have a strong chance to miss your target entirely. I can always go semi-auto at any time I want to whereas you're stuck at pump action and reloading every 8 shots. ha!You do know what a shotgun choke is, yes? Look it up.
They do not weigh roughly the same, fully loaded. 7.1-5.97 = 1.13 lbs.You're splitting hairs over a pound haermm
While you run out of ammo in only 8 shots, I can continue to shoot forever and ever. On top of that, I always have the option to go full auto.Forgetting that I'll have the 100 round Mini 14, which is my primary weapon? And at least 2 Beretta 92F's?
I also have a spare ammo case (due to you using a shotgun with less space for ammo and a smaller ammo belt, I had to cut my spare down to one spare to stay under the weight of your combo) with an additional 200 rounds.Link to a feasible ammo pouch/utility vest that houses 200 round Glock mags?While you just let your shotgun dangle, I'll have a nice holster that keeps my glock secure and a secure slot for my ammo mags. You can fidget and get tired with a loose gun that constantly dangles while my movements are only hindered by the weight of what I carry. 🙂
But, go on pretending that being able to sling a shotgun around with a shoulder strap is a good idea because it looks cool in movies. I'll secure my so it doesn't flop around. 😬haermm It's common sense, dude. Remember I told you that time I was deer hunting and had to hike/jog 3 miles back to camp? I was carrying a full loaded Remington, slung on my back. I barely noticed it.
And you fell for the trap.You asked me about Milla using shotguns, I showed you that she did. What trap? You asked a question and I gave an answer.The trap was to get you to bring up her using every single gun except for the shotguns, first.
Why did I do this:
1. You love Milla and she can't do wrong.
2. You seem to get all your info from the RE movies.
3. Prove to you from your own source material that he shotguns were bad choices.
4. It was for looks, not function.*Cracks knuckles*
I'm awesome. heheheehehehheheewfasdf adsf
Incorrect. I haven't "chosen" my rifle, yet. 😉K.I actually have, I have just not listed it.
Actually, I really did. You need some preparation H because even with you:Whoa. K.1. Lying.
2. Gimping my side.
3. Choosing other items to make your side look better.
You still got horribly raped.
You think you're gonna be accurate with a full auto Glock 18? You're dreaming, babe.
This all comes down to personal preference, dude. I know how good I am with a given weapon, which is why I chose the ones I did. The weapons I chose + my given skill with said weapons= Maximum efficiency.
But, you go on thinking you'll take on the hordes with an 8 round shotgun and a 50 round ammo belt. Looks cool in movies, though, doesn't it?Read what I said.
Originally posted by dadudemonAnd carrying a coupla spare 200 round mags, where you gonna store your spare rifle mags?
Doesn't look any bigger than his balled up fist and it looks smaller than my balled up fist.On top of that, the thing is rather flat which makes it far easier to store.
(Yes, I did see the name of your image file. teehee)
I used a lighter round because I was going for penetration power, not as much weight as possible. I wanted a higher velocity round.First you ramble about stopping power, now you're going on about penetration. Choose one.
Depends on the gun. Shot for shot, yeah...but this isn't a shot for shot comparison, now is it?Are you stoned? There's no pistol, not a one, that has the damage factor a 12 gauge has. Ask an ER doctor to tell you stories about handgun wounds they've treated and they'll go on for hours. As them about shotgun wounds and they'll fall silent. Handgun wounds go to the ER. Shotgun wounds go to the morgue.Nice try.
You do know that it weighs 7.5lbs, as well, right? 🤨With a special pistol grip, it drops the weight to 6.5 lbs. 😐
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/historic-detail.asp?family=012C&mid=512907
Weight: 6 lbs 8 ounces.
You also have less ammo.
😐
Nothing about weight in your link.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_1200#Variants
6.5 pounds, 5.5 without the stock.
As if I would gimp your gun choice. 😐It weighs 6.5 pounds with the stock, dude. 5.5ish without it.You're wrong.
It weighs 6.5 lbs with the pistol grip. I just proved it.
Wrong and no you are lying. Yes, you are going out of your way to lie because I know you've seen the same things I have. Bad form.6.5 lbs.
With the 8 shots, that's an additional .6 lbs.
7.1 lbs.
Thank you, come again.
The Defender weighs 6.5 pounds. Take away a pound when removing the stock, that's 5.5 pounds. Add on 1/4 pound (guesstimate) when adding the pistol grip, that's 5.75 pounds.
8 rounds of 12 gauge double ought weighs around 1 ounce. 1 ounce=0.062499 pounds. 8 times 0.062499=.5 pounds.
5.75 pounds + .5 pounds= 6.25 pounds. This is the weight of a fully loaded Model 1300 Defender. Where are you getting 7.1 pounds?
The other belt carried 58 rounds for a weight of 4.34lbs for a difference of .6 lbs.The bandoleer weighs maybe 1/2 pound. 50 12 gauge shells weighs 3.12 pounds. (1 ounce each, 1 ounce=0.062499pounds, 50 x 0.062499= 3.12 pounds.The ammo is 3.77 lbs.
I could not find a figure on the ammo belt so I left it out of the figures because, unlike you, I'm not dishonest during debates just to win.
Wasn't that nice of me?
Sum total, roughly 3.5 pounds.
Oh really?It improves the weapon by making it lighter and easier to handle 🙄Shotguns 101: Pistol grips lower your control and accuracy.
Prove that the pistol grip improves your control and accuracy.
A person who is a good shot with a gauge (RJ), can shoot close to as accurately with a pistol grip. I've done it.
While you find a shit ton of blogs and forums describing how unsafe it can be and how accuracy is lost, come back and admit you want to take a bad idea and make it even worse by changing the stock to a pistol grip.To a noob, yes. I told you many times, my Uncle was a seasoned hunter and an accomplished marksman, and he taught me how to shoot. I'm pretty dedgum efficient with a shotgun.
You watch too many movies, dude.Guilty, but I know where fantasy ends and reality begins.
Pistol grip <<<<<<<<< buttstock unless you like a bruised hand, loss of accuracy, and less control.Again, I'm not a noob. The things you are implying are for noobs.Good job.
I can holster the glock and the ammo while taking up less space and weight on my body while you can't.heBut first you gotta eject the big ass drum mag, stow it, then holster the Glock. Too much time. Not to mention you gotta load it back up when you wanna use it again.
Meanwhile, I'll still have 92 shots left in one mag with 2 more 200 round mags to spare. That's not including the my selection on an assault rifle. 🙂Hm....A gun that you have to unload then reload every damn time you holster/draw it.Yup, victory tastes good for me. WEEEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEE!
Reeks of inefficiency.
And, yes, that person deserves to die: they should have made a better gun selection choice.No, that means they got themselves into a situation that was unwinnable from the start.
Yeah, really. And I caught you lying to try and win an argument which is bad form.Lying? haermm How? Your figures in the Model 1300 are off, as they are on the ammo.On top of that, you tried to gimp and I did not. I gave you a better shotgun choice with a larger mag (with a synthetic stock to save weight) and you gave me a slower ammo with less penetration power that weighed more. Bad form and very dishonest/asinine of you.
I chose the Defender because I am familiar with it. I chose the Mini 14 because I used to have one and am familiar with it. I chose the Beretta 92F because I am familiar with it. I chose my weaponry because I am familiar with them all. You? You chose a weapon you wouldn't even know how to load, how to reload, with no idea how innacurate automatic fire is. Hell, the conversation we had the other night, you didn't even know what I meant when I said "You know when you empty a mag from a pistol and the slide locks back?" I had to SHOW you with a youtube vid. And then, you didn't even know how to get the slide to slide forward again, chambering another round.
But hey, good luck with the 200 round Glock. You'll be zombie fodder before you get a round chambered. See, problem is, you think you're John Preston or some shit. You aint. You're just a regular guy with little if any training on automatic weaponry.
Nope, no questions.Just would like to point out several logical fallacies on your part:
The toilet did not disintegrate: the front portion got blown off and the majority of it fell off the back of the stand.
What does that tell us? It carries lots of inertia, but low penetration power...just like I've telling you.
The round I would use has a much much higher velocity (second highest used in Glock 18s) and has much higher velocity than all but the most powerful colt .45 rounds.
The toilet shattered at the point it made contact because the toilet is brittle and multiple points striking would cause it to shatter much more easily than just firing one of the buck shot items at a time. That was a very dishonest way for you to present your argument because you definitely know that.
Fire it into a slab of meat at 10 yards out and the meat definitely does not explode. Some chunks fly off, sure, but not the destruction that you're trying to portray.
Watch Mythbusters? Yeah, cause they did that.
OK, watch this:
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Now, imagine shooting those pumpkins with a pistol round:
Yeah......
Now why would I want more penetration to weight ratio? Hmmm?Ah, that's right: hit targets behind targets. WEEEEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE Even more pwnage. Yeah, I'm that awesome: I thought that far ahead into the discussion.
The round I chose can comfortable go through two bodies.
Good luck doing that with a 12-gauge buckshot at more than 10 yards.
Slugs maximum effective range, roughly 100 yards, maybe 150. If you have a rifled barrel and are using a sabot, that effective range is increased by about 25-50 yards.
00 and 0 buckshot is pretty much going to perform the same. It will give you good results out to about 50 yards especially if combined with a modified choke to keep the pattern tight, beyond that, the pellets will spread out too much and less than half will hit your target.
Works for me but it is not my first choice in a rifle.I know, you'd choose something that you haven't a clue how to operate.
Yeah, go ahead and gamble that you'll hit the head with a pistol grip on a 12-gauge.Wouldn't be a gamble, I know what I can do with a gauge. You? You're guessing what you can do.Meanwhile, I'll aim for the head and chest and kill every time.
The survivors? Laughing at all the idiots that played too many games and watched too many movies, thinking that a 12-gauge shotgun was a good choice to bring to a ZA.
Take off the head of any living being, it dies. Common sense. Shotguns take heads clean off. They can, potentially, in the hands of a good shot, almost cut someone in half.
You'd chop your legs off.
Let's get real, people.....If zombies are running amuck, we aren't gonna find automatic weapons lying around. We aren't gonna find them in a local gun store or sporting goods outlet. What we would find is semi automatic pistols and rifles, Revolvers, hunting rifles, shotguns and carbines.
A fully automatic Glock with a 200 round clip? Good luck finding that. And if you DO find one, you'll have zero training on shooting it. I can guarantee you that going from semi auto to full auto is night and day, and unless you are a Cop or a soldier, or a redneck waiting for the government to crumble, you will SUCK with a fully automatic pistol or rifle.
My choices: the Mini-14, The Model 13000 Defender, the Beretta 92F, can all be found at local gun stores, AND I am familiar with them.