Originally posted by rotiart
Actually my logic is very bit the same as yours.. Exchange lt with pf... And bam... It's a fallacy of argument to apply negatives against my arguments without accepting a double standard with yours... :-/
Explain the double standard. Maybe perceived through misinterpretation but i certainly dont have one in my argument. Explain clearly and then i will precede to clear things up for you 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Kurupt Thanosi you are stepping in here like you actually know what you are talking about and have the audacity to ask me to direct you to evidence to cover basic well known facts.Do a forum search for my user name and look at the scarlet witch thread i posted in and find the evidence in my posts. I dont cater for the ignorant, especially when they front like they know their shit but come up short.
Happy searching 🙂
you have ZERO narration stating that it was an M-body nor that it was weaker than the original. Concession accepted.
Originally posted by GalacticStormWhat's stated ? Out with it, lad.
As stated by Galactus and LT (and i will happily supply the scans from Quasar and Excalibur to shut you up if you wish 😄 )The universes in Marvel are closed systems. After the Big Bang, all energy and matter that will ever be has been made. Energy just transfers from state to state, nothing new ( as in new energy) is created within the system. You just have a pocket of energy within reality and thats that till the end.
With that in mind, given that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang, that very source of power at a universal level, the abstracts within this closed system cant become greater than the Force. They can becme greater than each other by fighting over the ambient energy within, but the Phoenix Force in its totality isnt summed up by the universal Big Bang. It is a multiversal energy source as verified by its latest bio.
That is why Jean Grey just one of its hosts was able to display greater than universal power by manipulating 616 so casually in her palm.
The closed system model that operates within marvel destroys your argument. Im sorry mate 🙁
Yes, they can. You have no evidence to support your claims just ridiculous theories. It's one writer's take on the big bang while another writer viewed it as the Infinity Being which sums up the gems. Do your homework next time.
Lt's power seems greater than that and the heart poopooed on his head. Show me the Phoenix beating any abstracts. Otherwise you're just exaggerating feats which is the worst way to debate.
Originally posted by GalacticStormYou calling someone else ignorant is ironic.
Kurupt Thanosi you are stepping in here like you actually know what you are talking about and have the audacity to ask me to direct you to evidence to cover basic well known facts.Do a forum search for my user name and look at the scarlet witch thread i posted in and find the evidence in my posts. I dont cater for the ignorant, especially when they front like they know their shit but come up short.
Happy searching 🙂
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
you have ZERO narration stating that it was an M-body nor that it was weaker than the original. Concession accepted.
Your argument is handled in this very thread and in the scarlet witch thread i handled you in the other week.
You talk too much kid learn to listen.
Concepts dont have physical bodies and therefore require mbodys to have a physical presence in reality. LT is a conceptual being. Check his handbook entry i will not go through the effort of proving common knowledge.
In the Quasar scans that have been posted here many times, it is stated quite clearly by anthropomorpo that the mbodys can have varying levels of an entitys totality placed within them which explains their differing showings.
All common knowledge. Read. Treat your ignorance 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Explain the double standard. Maybe perceived through misinterpretation but i certainly dont have one in my argument. Explain clearly and then i will precede to clear things up for you 🙂
You state that the fact that lt doesn't make appearances in every high cosmic event is because he isn't necessary. Pf does not make appearances in every high cosmic event either. Including ones that are universe ending... Multiverse ending dilemmas... But you have other abstracts appear. And asking me to "explain clearly" is rather disingenuous when you consistently make arguments about telling others like quanchi to go read comics...
The argument about lt and the infinity gauntlet has lt asking Adam if he would really have this reality destroyed in a battle over the ig... That does not mean lt would lose... It means the collateral damage from the confrontation would be Te destruction of their reality... And Adam has seen every possible future... And in the end he knew he had to give it up... This identifies that Adam never had a winning shot to begin with otherwise he would have seen a future favorable to him.... Something most poor readers neglect...
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your argument is handled in this very thread and in the scarlet witch thread i handled you in the other week.You talk too much kid learn to listen.
Concepts dont have physical bodies and therefore require mbodys to have a physical presence in reality. LT is a conceptual being. Check his handbook entry i will not go through the effort of proving common knowledge.
In the Quasar scans that have been posted here many times, it is stated quite clearly by anthropomorpo that the mbodys can have varying levels of an entitys totality placed within them which explains their differing showings.
All common knowledge. Read. Treat your ignorance 🙂
You didn't answer my question... please point to ANY NARRATION stating that this supposed M-body of the LT that appeared in Marvel: The End.. was a weaker version M-Body. There aren't multiple Lt's for each universe. There is ONE LT. So when Thanos absorbed the LT he absorbed the entire LT. There was ZERO mention of it being a weaker version M-body nor that the LT still existed and wasn't absorbed totatly.
Originally posted by rotiart👆
You state that the fact that lt doesn't make appearances in every high cosmic event is because he isn't necessary. Pf does not make appearances in every high cosmic event either. Including ones that are universe ending... Multiverse ending dilemmas... But you have other abstracts appear. And asking me to "explain clearly" is rather disingenuous when you consistently make arguments about telling others like quanchi to go read comics...The argument about lt and the infinity gauntlet has lt asking Adam if he would really have this reality destroyed in a battle over the ig... That does not mean lt would lose... It means the collateral damage from the confrontation would be Te destruction of their reality... And Adam has seen every possible future... And in the end he knew he had to give it up... This identifies that Adam never had a winning shot to begin with otherwise he would have seen a future favorable to him.... Something most poor readers neglect...
Re: What's the most powerful force in Marvel U
Originally posted by Stall_19
Ultimate Nullifier, White Crown Phoenix, Infinity Gauntlet, Classic Beyonder, Living Tribunal or something else?
None of them or the Heart of the Infinite/Universe, 'The Editor' character from FF who semi broke the 4th Wall. He was beyond them all.
Originally posted by Free_Speech
None of them or the Heart of the Infinite/Universe, 'The Editor' character from FF who semi broke the 4th Wall. He was beyond them all.
Hrm? Issue? Don't know what you speak about? Jen Walters (she hulk) breaks fourth wall... So has deadpool... Mr fantastic on one occasion created a
Device that took him to meet "god"... What did this editor do?
Originally posted by quanchi112
What's stated ? Out with it, lad.Yes, they can. You have no evidence to support your claims just ridiculous theories. It's one writer's take on the big bang while another writer viewed it as the Infinity Being which sums up the gems. Do your homework next time.
GALACTUS:
"The universe is finite. At the moment of creation all that will ever be was. In birth and death there is transition and in living advancement, but nothing new is created"
NEXUS GUARDIANS-
"All other power in the multiverse is divided up and accounted for. You have added to a CLOSED SYSTEM"
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THE LIVING TRIBUNAL:
"That world is contaminated with an energy from beyond this multiverse. Its presence here upsets the universal balance."
"I want none of its anomalous power leaking into the greater universe"
As i correctly informed you, the universes of Marvel are closed systems. The Big Bang is the be all and end all of energy within each reality and each reality has a fixed allocation of power and that is enforced. The Phoenix Force at a universal level is the Big Bang. It is the sentient creation energies of the multiverse. Short of introducing some unknown energy from outside the multiverse which is not permitted anyway, or utilising an artifact, the universal abstracts can NOT become greater than the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Lt's power seems greater than that and the heart poopooed on his head. Show me the Phoenix beating any abstracts. Otherwise you're just exaggerating feats which is the worst way to debate.
And youre wasting my time and thread space with poorly researched rants. Take a time out and read some comics 🙂
Originally posted by rotiart
Hrm? Issue? Don't know what you speak about? Jen Walters (she hulk) breaks fourth wall... So has deadpool... Mr fantastic on one occasion created a
Device that took him to meet "god"... What did this editor do?
Can't remember the issue, I have it somewhere; because, shockingly for this forum....I read it. He explained he 'wrote' the multiverse and it was in a constant state of flux because of this. Reed believed him. Good story actually, he was a little bald guy with a pen.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIt's a misinformed argument. It's also been contradicted by other comics as well. It's like using Galactus' words and saying no new writer can come up with anything really new based on this statement. It's absurd to say the least. Look at what the chaos king is doing. Any writer can change the status quo for any give story as long as it sees print. LOL.
GALACTUS:"The universe is finite. At the moment of creation all that will ever be was. In birth and death there is transition and in living advancement, but nothing new is created"
NEXUS GUARDIANS-
"All other power in the multiverse is divided up and accounted for. You have added to a CLOSED SYSTEM"
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
THE LIVING TRIBUNAL:
"That world is contaminated with an energy from beyond this multiverse. Its presence here upsets the universal balance."
"I want none of its anomalous power leaking into the greater universe"
As i correctly informed you, the universes of Marvel are closed systems. The Big Bang is the be all and end all of energy within each reality and each reality has a fixed allocation of power and that is enforced. The Phoenix Force at a universal level is the Big Bang. It is the sentient creation energies of the multiverse. Short of introducing some unknown energy from outside the multiverse which is not permitted anyway, or utilising an artifact, the universal abstracts can NOT become greater than the Phoenix Force.
And youre wasting my time and thread space with poorly researched rants. Take a time out and read some comics 🙂
The Lt sees the imbalanes and thereby acts. Ersihkigal was dealt dealt with.
The ig story has the Infinity Being creating the entire universe. Each writer can define their own big bang how you will you are choosing one and trying to conform all of comics into this one terrible story which doesn't fit or add up.
Try again please.
Originally posted by rotiart
You state that the fact that lt doesn't make appearances in every high cosmic event is because he isn't necessary. Pf does not make appearances in every high cosmic event either. Including ones that are universe ending... Multiverse ending dilemmas... But you have other abstracts appear. And asking me to "explain clearly" is rather disingenuous when you consistently make arguments about telling others like quanchi to go read comics...
As i thought. Misinterpretation 😬
You stated that the fact that LT wasnt around for Jeans manipulation 616 meant that it wasnt a significant event or threat to the multiversal balance.
That was illogical because Jean wasnt doing anything evil or detrimental to reality. She was fixing it and perpetuating the creation cycle by continuing its existence which is within the Phoenixes role. Therefore why would LT turn up?
So using his no show in that instance to support your misguided idea that it was because it wasnt a big threat was illogical when LT has shown up in the past for events that have upset the balance of power in the multiverse which that event had nothing to do with.
LT refused to help during the Infinity Gauntlet series because it wasnt within his jurisdiction. If the abstracts hadnt gone to him begging for help he wouldnt have appeared.
He only takes action when it is something within his jurisdiction, something that affects the balance of power in existence, not for simple destruction or seizing of power which he classes as survival of the fittest.
The Phoenix Force has its assigned role to, to perpetuate the creation cycle, to aid evolution, burn away what doesnt work and to perform cosmic surgery on damaged timelines.
The appearance or non appearance of both of these characters can be explained by their comparative roles.
It is a poor argument to say that Phoenixes reality saving feats were not of any significance just because LT wasnt there. They have their assigned roles, they appear where they have jurisdiction.
Simple.
Quanchi does indeed need to read comics if hes requesting proof for that which is common knowledge, that which has been thoroughly discussed and proven many a time on these forums, that which is shown in popular mainstream comics.
Originally posted by rotiart
The argument about lt and the infinity gauntlet has lt asking Adam if he would really have this reality destroyed in a battle over the ig... That does not mean lt would lose... It means the collateral damage from the confrontation would be Te destruction of their reality... And Adam has seen every possible future... And in the end he knew he had to give it up... This identifies that Adam never had a winning shot to begin with otherwise he would have seen a future favorable to him.... Something most poor readers neglect...
Its as simple as this. LT stated clear as day he did not know if he had the power to take the gauntlet by force. If you can accept LTs omniscience regarding his future visions then you must objectively accept it for his assessment of his own capacity.
He didnt know if he had the power, therefore you are in no position to claim otherwise. LT asked Adam to consider the ramifications of a confrontation on 616, Adams reality so he gave up. That does NOT suggest in anyway that Adam knew he couldnt win a battle with LT, but instead that he wanted to avoid destroying his native reality in a selfish attempt to retain his newfound power. So he did the right thing and gave up the power.
That situation tells us that LTs comparative power level with the IG is very close. It doesnt tell us conclusively which one is greater as you would try and argue.
The Lt sees the imbalanes and thereby acts. Ersihkigal was dealt dealt with.
No she wasn't. She and the LT made a deal, they would each pick a champion and have them fight it out. The loser gave up their position and power. The Lt choose the SS and Eriskigal choose Quasar. Quasar threw the fight once he figured out who choose him as their champion. Erishkigal then lost possession of the Star Brand.
The LT didn't do jack.
Just like the IG saga. Adam gave up the IG because he didn't want to wreck the Dimension of Manifestations. The LT admitted himself in the very issue he wasn't sure if he could force the IG from Adam's hands.
The LT didn't do jack again. In fact, he couldn't even affect the IG until it's wielder submitted to the LT's jurisdiction.
Originally posted by zopzopThe only reason lt didn't get involved in a fight is because this would be counterproductve to the multiverse and would destroy what his purpose is to oversee.
No she wasn't. She and the LT made a deal, they would each pick a champion and have them fight it out. The loser gave up their position and power. The Lt choose the SS and Eriskigal choose Quasar. Quasar threw the fight once he figured out who choose him as their champion. Erishkigal then lost possession of the Star Brand.The LT didn't do jack.
Just like the IG saga. Adam gave up the IG because he didn't want to wreck the Dimension of Manifestations. The LT admitted himself in the very issue he wasn't sure if he could force the IG from Adam's hands.
The LT didn't do jack again. In fact, he couldn't even affect the IG until it's wielder submitted to the LT's jurisdiction.
The Lt undid warlock's actions with the snap of his finger. I mean if you are going to try and correct someone don't leave yourself up like this in the future.
The Lt undid warlock's actions with the snap of his finger. I mean if you are going to try and correct someone don't leave yourself up like this in the future.
Warlock wasn't trying to kill them. That wasn't a death blow type attack. The LT admitted in the issue he wasn't sure he could force the IG from his hands. Did you even read the issue?
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's a misinformed argument. It's also been contradicted by other comics as well. It's like using Galactus' words and saying no new writer can come up with anything really new based on this statement. It's absurd to say the least. Look at what the chaos king is doing. Any writer can change the status quo for any give story as long as it sees print. LOL.The Lt sees the imbalanes and thereby acts. Ersihkigal was dealt dealt with.
The ig story has the Infinity Being creating the entire universe. Each writer can define their own big bang how you will you are choosing one and trying to conform all of comics into this one terrible story which doesn't fit or add up.
Try again please.
You havent actually countered the point i made. A point that still stands strong. To do so you would have to show through feat and statement that marvels universes arent closed systems. You cant just say whatever writers change the status quo all the time. Yh they do. What has that got to do with closed systems? Where was the point on that changed.
Instead of addressing the point made you went off on an unrelated tangent.
As it stands as stated by Nexus guardians, LT and Galactus, the Big Bang is the be all and end all of each reality. No new energy is created or available naturally.
Therefore the Phoenix Force as the Big Bang in the natural scheme of things is greater than any and all abstracts that derive from her and tap into her power.
Back up your points or give it a rest 🙂
Originally posted by zopzopYes, and he did conclude he did have the power to do so but doing so would destroy the reality in question so he would only do so if warlock wouldn't give them to him. I mean you might have read it but I don't think you comprehended it.
Warlock wasn't trying to kill them. That wasn't a death blow type attack. The LT admitted in the issue he wasn't sure he could force the IG from his hands. Did you even read the issue?
@Quanchi
facepalm2
for a Thanos fan you didnt really read the IG saga did you?
Thanos and Adam Warlock when donning the Glove stated that they were the end all be all of reality every possibility every point in time was theirs...
Multiversal right there.
and in the infinity watch issue one Tribunal didnt undo adam warlock's action as he simply fixed the furniture after Adam Warlock's outburst.
Tribunal also stated that a battle between him and warlock would destroy all actuality... Tribunal couldnt take the IG from Warlock or turn it off unless warlock allowed it.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/67610/1351421-warlockinfinitywatch01_17_super.jpg
