What's the most powerful force in Marvel U

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Back to the original question. In no particular order the most powerful forces in marvel continuity in my opinion are the M'kraan crystal, the Phoenix Force, LT, HOTI, the multiversal energy matrix and the Ultimate Nullifier.

This list is so ass backwards I don't even know where to begin. Question... when thanos had the heart and absorbed EVERYTHING.. abstracts, LT.. EVERYTHING to fix the flaw... Was the Phoenix force part of that? You claim the force is everywhere in every universe and the driving force behind each universe and the multiverse in fact. So when THanos absorbed everything... it also absorbed the force right? In fact, when it was remade.. there was ZERO mention of even needing the weakling phoenix force for the remade universe was there? no mention of it at all.. kinda odd isn't it? Ooo no.. it wasn't odd... The P force really isn't shit.

Originally posted by BobbyD
Isn't it TOAA/God?

Yh but i dont think anyone includes the supreme being cos thats a given. 😛

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yh but i dont think anyone includes the supreme being cos thats a given. 😛

Okay, so where does PR Beyonder fit into all of this?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This list is so ass backwards I don't even know where to begin. Question... when thanos had the heart and absorbed EVERYTHING.. abstracts, LT.. EVERYTHING to fix the flaw... Was the Phoenix force part of that? You claim the force is everywhere in every universe and the driving force behind each universe and the multiverse in fact. So when THanos absorbed everything... it also absorbed the force right? In fact, when it was remade.. there was ZERO mention of even needing the weakling phoenix force for the remade universe was there? no mention of it at all.. kinda odd isn't it? Ooo no.. it wasn't odd... The P force really isn't shit.

Your post makes it clear that:

a) youre a minor

b) ive hurt your feelings

c) you know and understand very little

If you bothered to read my post properly you'd understand that i said in no particular order, therefore your "ass backward" comment highlights point c 🙂

I dont claim the force is everywhere. The point is stated on panel that it is the Big Bang and the sum and substance of all matter and energy in a universe. That is what it is at a universal level. However as confirmed through Grant Morrisons New X-men run and by the Phoenix Forces latest handbook, it is a multiversal entity.

So at the universal level it is the Big Bangs of marvel realities and represents itself as the firebird within reality. But it is so much more than that and empowers hosts across existence and is not summed up within any one particular reality. Therefore Thanos absorbing and re-emitting one alternate reality is nothing to the Phoenix Force as a whole.

The abstracts are little components of a reality, they are spawned and given relevance by the creation of reality. They are dependent on the Phoenix Force. The abstracts of one little reality mean nothing to the Force. Again you highlight point c when you try and hype how Thanos beat up some puny little abstracts in an alternate reality. Big Deal. Jean Grey just one of the many hosts the Phoenix Force empowers had a universe as a play thing in the palm of her hand. She is beyond getting into little fisticuffs with insignificance 🙂

a+b+c = a pressed, far from credible debater. Debate to try and find the truth, dont ignore the truth thats presented to you because youve taken a dislike to me. Boo hoo 😂

Originally posted by BobbyD
Okay, so where does PR Beyonder fit into all of this?

Hes not current continuity so hes a non factor.

If he was included then he'd be second to the supreme being.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your post makes it clear that:

a) youre a minor

b) ive hurt your feelings

c) you know and understand very little

If you bothered to read my post properly you'd understand that i said in no particular order, therefore your "ass backward" comment highlights point c 🙂

I dont claim the force is everywhere. The point is stated on panel that it is the Big Bang and the sum and substance of all matter and energy in a universe. That is what it is at a universal level. However as confirmed through Grant Morrisons New X-men run and by the Phoenix Forces latest handbook, it is a multiversal entity.

So at the universal level it is the Big Bangs of marvel realities and represents itself as the firebird within reality. But it is so much more than that and empowers hosts across existence and is not summed up within any one particular reality. Therefore Thanos absorbing and re-emitting one alternate reality is nothing to the Phoenix Force as a whole.

The abstracts are little components of a reality, they are spawned and given relevance by the creation of reality. They are dependent on the Phoenix Force. The abstracts of one little reality mean nothing to the Force. Again you highlight point c when you try and hype how Thanos beat up some puny little abstracts in an alternate reality. Big Deal. Jean Grey just one of the many hosts the Phoenix Force empowers had a universe as a play thing in the palm of her hand. She is beyond getting into little fisticuffs with insignificance 🙂

a+b+c = a pressed, far from credible debater. Debate to try and find the truth, dont ignore the truth thats presented to you because youve taken a dislike to me. Boo hoo 😂

See, once again there is a reading comprehension failure on your part. You honestly need to work on that GS. Let me try again.

1. Please point me to ANY narration that talks about this supposed m-body being a WEAKER version than the normal LT. We've seen narration saying it can be weaker or the same. So what I want from you is ANY narration that the LT was in fact a weaker version LT

2. If the phoenix force is behind ALL creation like you claim (bs) then I ask again... Why was it so easily absorbed by Thanos with the heart? Further, why was it not needed to restore the universe or EVER mentioned being needed to do so?

3. You have one instance where a multiversal threat was present and other abstracts weren't around... Problem is, we have MANY MORE instances of serious multiversal threats coming up and abstracts and heroes being called to fight... Yet the force is no where to be found. One instance where it even needed for a multiversal threat and even then, it needed help to even save the day.. it couldn't even do it alone. However, the fact remains... when the big boys come out to play.. the force is usually no where to be found.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thank you for highlighting the difficulty you find correctly interpreting comic book sources 🙂

That scan says LT represents a power the abstracts believe to be greater than the IG. He does. TOAA 🙂

The scan doesnt state LT himself is greater. And furthermore Adam was relaying the opinion of the abstracts. LT himself would later go on to state uncertainty of his comparative capacity. LTs own words.

Lt then said he'd judge adam anyway, whether this was because he decided he had just enough power to do so or because he was the last stand and had to comply with duty regardless we dont know, it was never stated therefore no one can come in and say that that scene gave CONCLUSIVE evidence that LT was greater. No one.

All that scene did was highlight my point that multiversal nature and role does not mean a being is multiversal in power.

There is only one Rachel Grey. There is only one Shadow King. Their nature does not equate to multiversal power.

LT had to question his ability to take on the IG which by current continuity draws on a universes Big Bang for power. THAT and the fact that LT stated himself that to take the IG by Force would require a titanic struggle shows you that even if LT was greater, its not by a lot. Not much at all.

I rest my case 🙂

Lt ruled against him and knew the outcome from the start. Lt is more powerful than the ig as this entire comic makes it very clear but the forceable removable of the ig from warlock's hand would destroy the foundation of this reality in the process. You don't comprehend it. Any of it.

No, he knew he had enough power to do so as what sense would it make for him to battle warlock and lose and have this universe destroyed in the process ? What sense does this make to someone whose job it is to oversee every reality and maintain a proper balance. Nothing you post makes any logical sense.

Lt ruled against him and was going to take it by force as he believed he had the necessary power to take the gems. The ig would also annihilate any and all phoenix power.

I mean read the story and see what it's capable of. I mean just the time gem itself wit the reality gem can duplicate maniuplating the timestream.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So if he's a representative of TOAA then why wouldn't he have more power than the ig ? Do you ever apply logic to your inane theories ?

Lt ruled against him and knew the outcome from the start. Lt is more powerful than the ig as this entire comic makes it very clear but the forceable removable of the ig from warlock's hand would destroy the foundation of this reality in the process. You don't comprehend it. Any of it.

No, he knew he had enough power to do so as what sense would it make for him to battle warlock and lose and have this universe destroyed in the process ? What sense does this make to someone whose job it is to oversee every reality and maintain a proper balance. Nothing you post makes any logical sense.

Lt ruled against him and was going to take it by force as he believed he had the necessary power to take the gems. The ig would also annihilate any and all phoenix power.

I mean read the story and see what it's capable of. I mean just the time gem itself wit the reality gem can duplicate maniuplating the timestream.

Being a representative of someone does not make you on their level. It just means they've tasked you with carrying out their interests. LT as far as we've seen isnt connected with his master like Spectre. So once again your point is inconclusive.

TOAA is stated to be above the IG which is obvious. The same isnt said for LT, LT himself is unsure of his comparative power with the IG. That is stated on panel therefore you are in no position to claim he is greater without a conclusive statement or feat showing otherwise. LT never reassessed his position through statement saying he'd decided he had the power to take the IG. Lt never got into battle with Adam and took the IG by force therefore LTs comparative power with the IG is unknown. That IS FACT.

however if you have the opinion that lt is greater because of his role and the fact that in the end he did decide to confront Adam then thats fine. Just dont post here that that means that LT is greater because it doesnt. Thats your interpretation, your opinion. Learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Just to reiterate LT never stated he had now decided he had the power to take the gem forcefully, LT never beat Adam in a confrontation, therefore we dont know for a fact their comparative power levels. We werent told or shown. LT very well could have decided he had the power and thats why he confronted Adam, or it could be the case that LT as the last stand against Adam decided to confront him and stand by his duty as opposed to just giving in.

We dont know. We werent told. Youre entitled to your opinion. Understand its not fact. Its as simple as that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Being a representative of someone does not make you on their level. It just means they've tasked you with carrying out their interests. LT as far as we've seen isnt connected with his master like Spectre. So once again your point is inconclusive.

TOAA is stated to be above the IG which is obvious. The same isnt said for LT, LT himself is unsure of his comparative power with the IG. That is stated on panel therefore you are in no position to claim he is greater without a conclusive statement or feat showing otherwise. LT never reassessed his position through statement saying he'd decided he had the power to take the IG. Lt never got into battle with Adam and took the IG by force therefore LTs comparative power with the IG is unknown. That IS FACT.

however if you have the opinion that lt is greater because of his role and the fact that in the end he did decide to confront Adam then thats fine. Just dont post here that that means that LT is greater because it doesnt. Thats your interpretation, your opinion. Learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Just to reiterate LT never stated he had now decided he had the power to take the gem forcefully, LT never beat Adam in a confrontation, therefore we dont know for a fact their comparative power levels. We werent told or shown. LT very well could have decided he had the power and thats why he confronted Adam, or it could be the case that LT as the last stand against Adam decided to confront him and stand by his duty as opposed to just giving in.

We dont know. We werent told. Youre entitled to your opinion. Understand its not fact. Its as simple as that.

I already told you how little sense it makes for Lt to gamble at taking on warlock if he's unsure of his power over the ig. Makes no sense and is counterproductive to his job.

The comic makes it clear and there's no logical way to go around this. You portray the Lt as some huge cosmic gambler and even in your other appearance you yourself used we see how he avoids direct conflict in order to protect and maintain the balances so of course he was sure. Even your own posts suggest so.

Just to get this across warlock submitted so why take something when one backs down. Lt undid his attacks and damage with a snap of his finger.

2+2=4.

If you can't apply logic to a scene or a comic then maybe you shouldn't debate about them. Food for thought.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
See, once again there is a reading comprehension failure on your part. You honestly need to work on that GS. Let me try again.

1. Please point me to ANY narration that talks about this supposed m-body being a WEAKER version than the normal LT. We've seen narration saying it can be weaker or the same. So what I want from you is ANY narration that the LT was in fact a weaker version LT

2. If the phoenix force is behind ALL creation like you claim (bs) then I ask again... Why was it so easily absorbed by Thanos with the heart? Further, why was it not needed to restore the universe or EVER mentioned being needed to do so?

3. You have one instance where a multiversal threat was present and other abstracts weren't around... Problem is, we have MANY MORE instances of serious multiversal threats coming up and abstracts and heroes being called to fight... Yet the force is no where to be found. One instance where it even needed for a multiversal threat and even then, it needed help to even save the day.. it couldn't even do it alone. However, the fact remains... when the big boys come out to play.. the force is usually no where to be found.

If it is stated that the Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier and thats a given comic book fact, that fact doesnt have to be stated in every comic book appearance of the Hulk to explain his differing showings. We're given an explanation- his varying levels of anger, therefore we know why sometimes he is stronger in some appearances than other.

We are told that entities can have varying amounts of their power invested into them by the occupying abstract. We are shown by the Quasar series that LT doesnt just use one Mbody, he has used multiple ones. However he still has just one essence that operates throughout the multiverse as opposed to there being many separate Eternitys who use many different mbodys.

No ones arguing over the power level of the mbody absorbed by HOTI wielding Thanos. Im just letting you know it was an Mbody and one of many that LT uses, so you cant assume the full entity was absorbed. 🙂

2) One reality is nothing to the Phoenix Force as a whole. Jean was told in new x-men that she should just let 616 die and yet because of her personal connection to it she decided to save it. She didnt have to 🙂 One little reality is nothing to the Phoenix Force as a whole, it manifests at a universal level as the Big Bang that spawns a reality. Therefore Thanos absorbing one reality is irrelevant. It says nothing of HOTI's comparative power if even the Force is willing to let a reality die. The Phoenix Force didnt even show up. 😂

3) I stated multiple instances where cosmics havent shown up. Look at the Chaos Wave event and multiple M;kraan crystal incidents. It says nothing for the Phoenix Force if it doesnt show up and nothing for LT. They have different roles, which offers an explanation for why one will show up sometimes and the other wont. However what you cannot do son is try to make a demeaning case against either entity when you dont know through statement or fact why they didnt show up for particular events. Thats just YOUR UNSUPPORTED OPINION. An opinion thats biased because of who youre debating against 😉 LT shows up for instances which affect the balance of energies in existence and the natural order, the Phoenixes role is to further evolution and perpetuate the creation cycles of realities. Different roles which necessitate different action.

Be objective kid 🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
To carry out his tasks he would have to be more powerful than the ig it makes no sense otherwise and the entire comic has it set up that way.

I already told you how little sense it makes for Lt to gamble at taking on warlock if he's unsure of his power over the ig. Makes no sense and is counterproductive to his job.

The comic makes it clear and there's no logical way to go around this. You portray the Lt as some huge cosmic gambler and even in your other appearance you yourself used we see how he avoids direct conflict in order to protect and maintain the balances so of course he was sure. Even your own posts suggest so.

Just to get this across warlock submitted so why take something when one backs down. Lt undid his attacks and damage with a snap of his finger.

2+2=4.

If you can't apply logic to a scene or a comic then maybe you shouldn't debate about them. Food for thought.

Is that what heroes or the forces of good do quanchi? Do they just give up against forces they believe are beyond them or do they carry on with duty and fight for what they believe in regardless? 😖hifty:

LT stated he was unsure of his comparative ability. His comparative ability was not proven through statement or by him forcefully taking the ganuntlet. THATS THAT. 😂

Once again i will reiterate that he could've decided to judge against him because he may have assessed that he was strong enough. We'll never know for sure. We werent told. On the other hand as the last stand for the forces of good he may have stuck by his duty and decided to make a stand anyway. Thats what the forces of good do. We'll never know we werent told.

Therefore if you want to believe that scene showed LT to be stronger then thats cool.

However understand that it wasnt conclusively shown. That would just be your opinion and your interpretation of the events. Its as simple as that.

Im saying LT may very well be stronger, however given his uncertainty and the fact that he said that a struggle would be titanic and not a domination, then LT isnt remarkably more powerful if at all.

Learn objectivity 🙂

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Oh and just to answer the question asked in the OP, I would rate Classic Beyonder as the most powerful force ever in the Marvel Universe; post retcon though, the HotU is the most powerful force...

I'd go:

1) Classic Beyonder
2) HoTU
3) Classic Molecule Man
4) Living Tribunal
5) Weilder of the Infinity Gems
6) Eternity/Full Power Galactus

Hmm interesting list. I didn't list Classic Molecule Man because it was a know fact that classic Beyonder is superior than him. Although would classic Molecule Man really be above Living Tribunal?

And I always though that the Ultimate Nullifier was above Galactus as it was the only thing stopping Galactus from devouring Earth. I could be wrong though.

Captain Britain at full power should be up there.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Is that what heroes or the forces of good do quanchi? Do they just give up against forces they believe are beyond them or do they carry on with duty and fight for what they believe in regardless? 😖hifty:

LT stated he was unsure of his comparative ability. His comparative ability was not proven through statement or by him forcefully taking the ganuntlet. THATS THAT. 😂

Once again i will reiterate that he could've decided to judge against him because he may have assessed that he was strong enough. We'll never know for sure. We werent told. On the other hand as the last stand for the forces of good he may have stuck by his duty and decided to make a stand anyway. Thats what the forces of good do. We'll never know we werent told.

Therefore if you want to believe that scene showed LT to be stronger then thats cool.

However understand that it wasnt conclusively shown. That would just be your opinion and your interpretation of the events. Its as simple as that.

Im saying LT may very well be stronger, however given his uncertainty and the fact that he said that a struggle would be titanic and not a domination, then LT isnt remarkably more powerful if at all.

Learn objectivity 🙂

It wasn't proven because warlock backed down when push came to shove. Lt was going to take the gems but guess what warlock backed down. Lt doesn't destroy realities on guesswork alone.

It makes no sense that he wasn't above him by any stretch of the imagination. None.

Also, your best phoenix feat is something just a few infinity gems can accomplish.

There's no proof she can even defeat Galactus let alone the Lt.

These are heavyweights beyond the scope of the phoenix force. Manipulated the timelines is entirely laughable here.

@stallcomics change from issue to issue as far as whose most powerful...
I mean if you go by secret wars 1 then it appears that classic molecule man was second only to classic beyonder... Ignoring further comic issues...

Then they created the cosmic cube... Which made you god...
Then the ig..
The cosmic egg
Two ka stones in the cancerverse
Galactic devouring everything
The fulcrum
The m krann crystal
Phoenix force
The alien entity that sparked the big bang with reed
Reed creating a device that empowered him to meet "god"
Captain Britain with the amulet and sword
Unilord surfer
Eternity
The infinites

... There are so many "godlike" entities it's hard to say who is really the biggest and baddest... I mean the only one I can think of is toaa but he has no quantifiable feats...

And btw with issue changes some people get stronger like Jean grey becoming Phoenix force or scarlet with and her hom saga...
And some get weaker like bruiser and molecule man...

We can all day guess whose the best but in THe end there is only one answer...
Mickey mouse is now toaa.

Bruiser was supposed to be beyonder... Stupid autocorrect...

She's probably been mentioned already but meh..

Squirrel Girl
Aunt May comes second.

Alfred and aunt may tie for first
Their secret love child squirrel girl comes in second. :-P

Originally posted by SamZED
Squirrel Girl
Aunt May comes second.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
😐
Blasphemy

Agreed.