Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and he did conclude he did have the power to do so but doing so would destroy the reality in question so he would only do so if warlock wouldn't give them to him. I mean you might have read it but I don't think you comprehended it.
Really? The LT has been shown as having the power to destroy a universe? You got a link to the scan or an issue number where this appeared on panel?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and he did conclude he did have the power to do so but doing so would destroy the reality in question so he would only do so if warlock wouldn't give them to him. I mean you might have read it but I don't think you comprehended it.
Are you having a laugh? HE might have read it and not comprehended it? 😕 😂
LT states that hes unsure if he has the power to wrest the gauntlet by force. However despite his uncertainty he made a judgement anyway and ruled against Adam. Where in that scene did LT revise his opinion on his comparative power with the IG and state that no he'd changed his mind and now thought he was stronger than the IG? 😖hifty:
Utter BUUUUUULLshit 😆
Originally posted by zopzopWhen did I state he was going to destroy that reality I said the result of their battle would do so. It seems you still don't understand what I meant.
Really? The LT has been shown as having the power to destroy a universe? You got a link to the scan or an issue number where this appeared on panel?
Originally posted by GalacticStormWhen he states I do he confirms he does have the power to do so. The other abstracts agreed Lt's powers was greater and come on the ig can't rule on the Lt's power not working. I mean use your head.
Are you having a laugh? HE might have read it and not comprehended it? 😕 😂LT states that hes unsure if he has the power to wrest the gauntlet by force. However despite his uncertainty he made a judgement anyway and ruled against Adam. Where in that scene did LT revise his opinion on his comparative power with the IG and state that no he'd changed his mind and now thought he was stronger than the IG? 😖hifty:
Utter BUUUUUULLshit 😆
You are laughing uncontrollably at your own ignorance in the end.
Originally posted by King CastleWow, yet another person who doesn't understand what they read. Ok your lesson will now begin.
@Quanchifacepalm2
for a Thanos fan you didnt really read the IG saga did you?
Thanos and Adam Warlock when donning the Glove stated that they were the end all be all of reality every possibility every point in time was theirs...
Multiversal right there.
and in the infinity watch issue one Tribunal didnt undo adam warlock's action as he simply fixed the furniture after Adam Warlock's outburst.
Tribunal also stated that a battle between him and warlock would destroy all actuality... Tribunal couldnt take the IG from Warlock or turn it off unless warlock allowed it.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/67610/1351421-warlockinfinitywatch01_17_super.jpg
The ig doesn't make them the master of all realities. Think a little. I know exactly what you are referring to and that's not to say that the ig is more powerful than the Lt or that the ig works in another reality outside it's own. The 616 reality it is stronger than in any other reality but the Lt was still portrayed as superior to the ig.
Next page he confirms I do. It would only destroy that reality not all actuality. I mean post the proper word it's so easy to make you look bad.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-18.jpg
This scan he says this reality not all of actuality.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-19.jpg
Don't make the mistake of challenging my opinion again.
Originally posted by quanchi112
When did I state he was going to destroy that reality I said the result of their battle would do so. It seems you still don't understand what I meant.When he states I do he confirms he does have the power to do so. The other abstracts agreed Lt's powers was greater and come on the ig can't rule on the Lt's power not working. I mean use your head.
You are laughing uncontrollably at your own ignorance in the end.
Either your comprehension skills are abominable or you're making this up 😬
He says i do judge against you. Not at any point in time does he change through statement his uncertainty about whether he could wrest the IG from Adam forcefully. Thats that.
Furthermore LT only disabled the IG's power when it was given up and an inanimate object. A glove! Lol. Give an engineer a few tools and they could disable a tank from working if its unmanned but could they face up against a manned tank? lol
If LT had the power to just disable the IG like that, he wouldve done so instead of guilt trippin adam out of a confrontation.
Where did the abstracts agree LT's power was greater? Show some scans stating the point clearly 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStormI do means he does have the power to take the ig from him. Why would he try to take it if he didn't think he could anyways. How does that help balancing the multiverse if he destroys the universe he's in and loses against the ig anyways. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Either your comprehension skills are abominable or you're making this up 😬He says i do judge against you. Not at any point in time does he change through statement his uncertainty about whether he could wrest the IG from Adam forcefully. Thats that.
Furthermore LT only disabled the IG's power when it was given up and an inanimate object. A glove! Lol. Give an engineer a few tools and they could disable a tank from working if its unmanned but could they face up against a manned tank? lol
If LT had the power to just disable the IG like that, he wouldve done so instead of guilt trippin adam out of a confrontation.
Where did the abstracts agree LT's power was greater? Show some scans stating the point clearly 🙂
Lt had to take it by force which he was prepared to do until warlock gave in.
Is this clear enough ?
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-04.jpg
Or did you really not even read the comic just saw a few scan and slapped a ridiculous argument to it like you have in the past.
Quanchi
dont strawman and play semantic games with me.
Synonyms: existence, corporality, corporeality, reality, subsistence, thingness
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actuality
i could have said universe or existence it would be the same.
Originally posted by King CastleIt said this reality meaning this universe alone not every reality or all of actuality. You do know there is more than one universe, right ?
Quanchidont strawman and play semantic games with me.
Synonyms: existence, corporality, corporeality, reality, subsistence, thingness
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actuality
i could have said universe or existence it would be the same.
@Galactic Storm (edit: Doh!! Thats what I get for not reading this entire thread before posting; a scan of page 20 is on page 7)
Although this pains me GREATLY to do so, I am in agreeance with Quan as pertains the level of power possessed by the Living Tribunal oppossed to the power of the Infinity Gauntlet...
At this very moment, I am physically reading Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 and its clear that the LT is above the IG; I wish I could post scans, but I am posting on a ps3 and there is no scanner that it supports to my knowledge...but I can tell you verbatim what is happening on a page to page basis.
On page 8, Warlock throws a temper tantrum and wrecks havok on those present at the trial with a powerful omnidirectional blast; with a snap of his finger, LT restores order on page 9...to which Warlock states "how??"
Its very clear that Warlock was shocked that the Tribunal was able to do this.
And I am sorry, I just do not see a statement of doubt on the Tribunals part on wether or not he could beat Warlock; the conversation I think you have mistaken occurs on page 20...the conversation goes as such:
Warlock (talking directly to the LT): So in other words, it all comes down to you deciding if I should retain control of the Infinity Gems.
Living Tribunal (talking directly to Warlock): AND DETERMINING IF I HAVE THE POWER TO...
Warlock: ...wrest the Gauntlet from me.
LT: (silence)
Warlock: (silence)
LT: (silence)
See, I am sorry Galactic Storm, but that just doesnt qualify as a statement of doubt on the Tribunals part IMHO...
To my minds eye, he was deciding wether he could beat Warlock or not...and as the next few pages show, he decided he could definitely do it, but that the confrontation between the two would "LAY WASTE TO THIS REALITY."
And on pages 22 and 24, the Tribunal is standing face to face with Warlock without bulging from the energies being released from the IG...while the other Abstracts/High Powered Cosmics are either shielding themselvs or being hurled back by the IG's forces.
On page 24 in particular, when LT states "IS THAT WHAT YOU WISH? IS THAT THE TYPE OF GOD YOU ARE?" The Tribunal does appear ready to battle Warlock...but Warlcok backs down and surrenders to the Tribunals judgement.
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but based on what I have reread twice now, I am convinced that the LT stands above the weilder of the Infinity Gems; he might not be vastly more power than the IG, but he is strong enough to eventually overcome its power...
Oh and just to answer the question asked in the OP, I would rate Classic Beyonder as the most powerful force ever in the Marvel Universe; post retcon though, the HotU is the most powerful force...
I'd go:
1) Classic Beyonder
2) HoTU
3) Classic Molecule Man
4) Living Tribunal
5) Weilder of the Infinity Gems
6) Eternity/Full Power Galactus
The most powerful force in not just the Marvel U is a being named the Cheapness; he or it has the power of PIS and CIS. He's also multi dimensional and has been seen in Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, Malibu, Image... you name it. He was the reason that Krona was defeated by an arrow. All hail the Cheapness.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but based on what I have reread twice now, I am convinced that the LT stands above the weilder of the Infinity Gems; he might not be vastly more power than the IG, but he is strong enough to eventually overcome its power...
Youre correct everyone is entitled to their opinion. I quoted this part of your post because this to me is the most significant point you made.
I never once said that LT was weaker than the gems. I just said that the scene isnt conclusive proof that LT was more powerful and that if he was it wasnt by any significant margin.
I then said that this shows that being multiversal in role and nature doesnt translate into having that same level of power.
Perhaps thats why in the big cosmic confrontations LT always calls upon the heroes to back him. He stated that was what he would resort to if he had to face Erishkigal with the StarBrand and again its what he had to do against HOTI.
We are all entitled to our own opinions and scenes can be interpreted in different ways. However in that scene LT doesnt know if he has the capacity to defeat the IG which itself tells you he is not remarkably greater than it. However he stood up and decided to judge against the IG anyway. You could interpret that in two ways, that he determined he just had enough power to do so, or that he was the last stand against the IG so he had to follow through with duty regardless. Given that a titanic reality destroying struggle would have been necessary to take the IG by force that shows us that:
a) His restoring of order following Adams previous outburst was not against a full power attack, it was just an outburst of energy to show his displeasure. If it was anything more than explain why Ziran withstood the blast at ground zero. We all know that a single Celestial is less powerful than Eternity however Eternity got repelled whilst Ziran withstood the full brunt of the blast from a closer vicinity than LT. Its down to the fact that Mbodys can have varying amounts of a beings totality invested within them, so the fact that Ziran withstood it whilst more powerful beings got repelled suggests he invested more of his might into the mbody than perhaps the others deemed necessary for a trial. Furthermore if LT was so powerful that he could snap his fingers to do away with the IG's effects then why would he later question his comparative capacity with the IG's and why would he deem a titanic struggle would be necessary to attempt to take it? Simple. Adams outburst as stated was just him showing his displeasure about being judged by entities he deemed below him. It wasnt a killing blast therefore LT's restoration of order means nothing especially given how well Ziran withstood it.
b) That LT is not significantly more powerful than the IG which by current continuity is empowered by the Big Bang which itself is a universal manifestation of the multiversal Phoenix Force.
Just to reiterate, not saying LT is weaker than the IG, just saying that scene is not conclusive evidence of him being stronger and if he is its not by any significant margin.
Role and nature do not equate to power.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do means he does have the power to take the ig from him. Why would he try to take it if he didn't think he could anyways. How does that help balancing the multiverse if he destroys the universe he's in and loses against the ig anyways. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.Lt had to take it by force which he was prepared to do until warlock gave in.
Is this clear enough ?
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-04.jpgOr did you really not even read the comic just saw a few scan and slapped a ridiculous argument to it like you have in the past.
Thank you for highlighting the difficulty you find correctly interpreting comic book sources 🙂
That scan says LT represents a power the abstracts believe to be greater than the IG. He does. TOAA 🙂
The scan doesnt state LT himself is greater. And furthermore Adam was relaying the opinion of the abstracts. LT himself would later go on to state uncertainty of his comparative capacity. LTs own words.
Lt then said he'd judge adam anyway, whether this was because he decided he had just enough power to do so or because he was the last stand and had to comply with duty regardless we dont know, it was never stated therefore no one can come in and say that that scene gave CONCLUSIVE evidence that LT was greater. No one.
All that scene did was highlight my point that multiversal nature and role does not mean a being is multiversal in power.
There is only one Rachel Grey. There is only one Shadow King. Their nature does not equate to multiversal power.
LT had to question his ability to take on the IG which by current continuity draws on a universes Big Bang for power. THAT and the fact that LT stated himself that to take the IG by Force would require a titanic struggle shows you that even if LT was greater, its not by a lot. Not much at all.
I rest my case 🙂
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You didn't answer my question... please point to ANY NARRATION stating that this supposed M-body of the LT that appeared in Marvel: The End.. was a weaker version M-Body. There aren't multiple Lt's for each universe. There is ONE LT. So when Thanos absorbed the LT he absorbed the entire LT. There was ZERO mention of it being a weaker version M-body nor that the LT still existed and wasn't absorbed totatly.
