Originally posted by Silent Guardian
This is how it would go down.
Or not.
Since a non-low balled Quasar won't suffer that kind of bullshit.
Originally posted by Silent Guardian
This is how it would go down.
Or not.
Since a non-low balled Quasar won't suffer that kind of bullshit.
Originally posted by Q99In all fairness though, I think fights against mind-controlled, hypnotized, gone-insane opponents should not always be considered prime examples in cases where said opponent is stalemated or defeated. Often the affected character fights like a CIS-afflicted idiot, not using the full range of their powers and fighting with less skill or strategy than usual. Also there is the question of how far their faculties and reflexes are affected, and how much they are consciously or subconsciously fighting the effect - either distracting them or holding them back. A lot of these fights just don't seem quite right.
Every single one of those has her doing well against top-tier herald levelers, and most of 'em were in strait fights. Obviously not ones like her taking down the JLA, but that's still really impressive.The undercutting WW gets from some posters is pathetic.
Though they can give some indication of a fight especially where no other examples are available, you can't blame people for not always accepting them as strong evidence.
On the other hand if an opponent is under mind control or crazy and still wins... that probably says something.
basilisk
In all fairness though, I think fights against mind-controlled, hypnotized, gone-insane opponents should not always be considered prime examples in cases where said opponent is stalemated or defeated
It does for showing the ability to beat someone of top-tier power. And Superman was still using tactics, his powers in combination and thinking for himself, so he wasn't like normal puppet mind control, he was simply given a vision to make him rage.
Anyway, she's fought Superman lots of times and done well when he's not under any influence.
For that matter the only time she's even gotten major injuries in their fights instead of just hitting back and forth (ala how CM does) is... well, when he's either influenced to not hold back at all, or externally boosted. Most of the fights it's standard hit for hit stalemate, without being pushed to the edge they can stand against each other for awhile.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Dude. What about this?http://img57.imageshack.us/i/field.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/i/field2.jpgQuasar is the man.
I will note that with gauntlet, WW's got more raw power than all of those.
Still an excellent showing.
Originally posted by basiliskGalactus was well nourished and specifically commented on it. What iss ue of ff or do you have the scans ?
It was after the end of the Thanos series so maybe that means Quasar's shields were more powerful then? The rest is just your opinion. All we really saw was Quasar's shields held up better of the two and he wasn't simpering at the end of the encounter. But as is often the case Galactus was kind of lowballed in both stories anyway. We just have to accept a bit of PIS here and there.
Originally posted by Q99The point was one all out punch ko'd her. That shows she ins't in his league which proves my entire case. She needs to avoid and flee for her life and maybe she can gain the upper hand like she did against a mindcontolled Supes.
It'd have made more sense if she had used her tiara instead of just brute force there in JLA/Avengers, if you ask me.Yea, she escaped with her life, came back, and won, despite having injuries from the first part.
How convenient to overlook that. Yea, she used tactics and skill to beat one of the top top-tier heralds. Which, is what she does, it's part of her ability set. It's entirely silly to discount that because with that, she's top-tier.
And WW has more abilities than Marvel and overall does better than him clearly. She's a better fighter and has more powers.
That's like saying "Superman loses to X, as long as he doesn't use heat vision, freeze breath, or speed or flight."
Then Superman doesn't really lose to X and isn't less powerful because he has all those things. Same with WW.
What, precisely, is the misleading context of a list?
But really, this is standard. "Here's a dozen examples of her beating against characters of the type asked. Oh, but they're without context, therefore I must conclude that I should disregard them all because that's misleading!"
Every single one of those has her doing well against top-tier herald levelers, and most of 'em were in strait fights. Obviously not ones like her taking down the JLA, but that's still really impressive.
The undercutting WW gets from some posters is pathetic.
Ww is more highly skilled yes, but she relies heavily on her own skill and despite this is still at a huge disadvantage because they are stronger and more durable which this fight proved.
Superman's more effective than WW and in a direct macthup he can ko her as soon as he connects. Her fleeing from him isn't proof she's in his league. Use some common sense.
Originally posted by KontonNo, I always go by what I believe is the writer's intention he wasn't going for sun amp there. The times he was sun amped or the sun aided him it was either directly referenced or the art clearly showed it. This did neither.
I don't think you see anything that inconveniences the legitimacy of whatever you want to believe.
He dragged her into the surface of the sun, man. How can you possibly argue he didn't receive some kind of boost after looking at the first panel?
Originally posted by KontonThe writer never implied one.
http://goo.gl/rivpAHe dragged her into the surface of the sun, man. How can you possibly argue he didn't receive some kind of boost after looking at the first panel?
Originally posted by Konton
The gauntlets of atlas multiply the users strength by ten. So if Wondy is just marginally behind Superman in strength regularly, the atlas amp makes her ridiculous.Time for h1 maffs
Superman < 10[.9(Superman)]
Yea, it's really not even close considering there's a mere 3 class 100s there.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, it's really not even close considering there's a mere 3 class 100s there.
someone doesn't know what "class 100" means, I take it. Drax with the power gem was also "class 100".
That version of hulk looks like "professor" hulk (who iirc lacked the ability to amp his power like the other hulks do) but Hercules and Thor have no defined limits to their strength level.
Thor hitting something *with mjolnir* does even more damage than a barehanded attack as well- AND it's a horrendously powerful magic item that seems to do nothing vs. quasar's shields.
There's no way you can definitively argue that wonderwoman with the gauntlets hits harder than hercules + thor with mjolnir combined, since marvel hasn't seen fit to put a limit on where their strength level actually is. is it a 100 tons? a thousand? ten thousand? a billion? several billion? it's not hard to come up with feats that can successfully argue for ALL of these.
ONE "class 100" could beat wonderwoman amped with those gauntlets, depending on how that class 100 was written and what his/her feats were.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
someone doesn't know what "class 100" means, I take it. Drax with the power gem was also "class 100".That version of hulk looks like "professor" hulk (who iirc lacked the ability to amp his power like the other hulks do) but Hercules and Thor have no defined limits to their strength level.
Ok. Wonder Woman's more in like with Herc and Thor than Prof Hulk to begin with.
There's no way you can definitively argue that wonderwoman with the gauntlets hits harder than hercules + thor with mjolnir combined, since marvel hasn't seen fit to put a limit on where their strength level actually is.
Sure I can, since she's the same way. She helps moves moons and planets and fights with Superman all the time and can exchange blows with him for awhile and hurt him.
That, times 10.
Thor and Herc don't have a precise limit, but that's not the same thing as having unlimited strength.
ONE "class 100" could beat wonderwoman amped with those gauntlets, depending on how that class 100 was written and what his/her feats were.
Mmm... it'd have to be a 'class 100' a whole lot stronger than Thor and Herc and so on, because she's around their level to begin with, unless you're arguing Marvel characters are far stronger than DC ones.
Originally posted by Q99Ok. Wonder Woman's more in like with Herc and Thor than Prof Hulk to begin with.
This at least I agree with. professor hulk's strength level is so low as to be irrelevant here.
Sure I can, since she's the same way. She helps moves moons and planets and fights with Superman all the time and can exchange blows with him for awhile and hurt him.That, times 10.
This is where your logic falls apart. "helping to move the moon" isn't really much of a feat, since superman and MM were "helping" to move it as well, and superman is definitively stronger. Do we know how much of that is diana's strength? not really. Even if we assume the weight is distributed evenly (and we really shouldn't) that top end feat is only 1/3 of the moon's mass.
on the other hand, we have Thor withstanding the crushing weight of 20 planets (a score=20)
immobilizing savage hulk for an hour
Add to that things like moving the midgard serpent that equals the earth in mass, Throwing his hammer at 3x lightspeed, lifting the world engine, lifting all of asgard (with beta ray bill)- Thor's strength feats are flat out better than wonder woman's.
The issue is we don't know HOW much stronger a top end thor is. Current colossus is "class 100", but thor is EASILY in excess of 10 or 20 times stronger- despite being "class 100." Thor COULD be 2x, 3x, or even 10x stronger than wonder woman is- marvel hasn't seen fit to define that, and hercules is his equal.
Thor and Herc don't have a precise limit, but that's not the same thing as having unlimited strength.Mmm... it'd have to be a 'class 100' a whole lot stronger than Thor and Herc and so on, because she's around their level to begin with, unless you're arguing Marvel characters are far stronger than DC ones.
they don't need "unlimited strength"- by feats it's already obvious thor and hercules are stronger. just how MUCH stronger is what's in question. If either one is 5x stronger than she is (and that's a distinct possibility) then the gauntlets of strength don't allow her to hit stronger than they do combined. And I don't need to argue that ALL marvel characters are stronger, I just need to argue that THOSE two are stronger than wonder woman.
if this was Superman or Captain Marvel, it'd be a different argument. But we're getting off track. my point here was that throwing around the term class 100 like they're all equivalent-and they aren't- is a stupid way to try and make an argument. just because Thor is a class 100, and wonder woman is class 100, does not mean that wonder woman x10 is equal to ten thors.
