Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I am not sure people are even familiar with the characters.For instance, like above, people don't realize Zoom fights to strengthen, not to destroy. He's shown this time and *time* again and it is his character concept. Anyone who has read their comics would know that. This thread is pure hax. Now I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me or supporting them, but it's obvious reaching. There really doesn't need to be 2 people on the second team (or either really considering the short time frame).
A considerable amount of respected and knowledgeable posters (None of the apparent morons you mentioned) consider Surfer to be within a similar speed range as Superman, and its not just because of that feat which keeps being thrown about in this thread. He has many more feats illustrating both his physical and mental speed, ranging from speed blitzes, mentally tracking electrical signals, mentally reacting to billions of stars while moving FTL etc.
Now he isnt in the same speed class as Zoom but quite frankly neither is Wally. Neither are close. In regards to Wally though, I doubt that it would be viewed as at all far fetched to think that superman would be able to get off a thought in a fight against him before being koed, and going by the belief that he and Surfer are within similar speed range (as well as the concrete feats of Surfers mental speed and reactions), then it really wouldnt at all be farfetched to think the same of Surfer.
Team two doesnt need 2 members as long as Zoom is the only member.
Originally posted by Philosophía😂 😂
Zoom speedblitzing Superman and making him look like a statue in itself is something that puts him at a level Surfer and Thanos have no business competing with - since they can't compete with Superman either, hyperbole included or not. Both of them are generally outclassed when they meet a true speedster (see Runner, for both of them - who despite popular belief isn't comparable to Wally at his best in the slightest) or even skilled/fast combatants (see Midnight Sun and Gamora). And those are just a few examples.I just can't believe that the forum really is at the point where people think they can compete with the likes of Zoom/Wally, who are practically the epitomes of speed in comics. Not only that, but the reaching taking place in this thread is stupendous, like in the part pertaining to the "How many punches/IMPs can the Flash/Zoom deliver".
I'm wondering just how many posters are actually reading the comics and not basing what they say on the scans popping up on the forum, coupled with their love for one character/hate for another.
This is comedy gold here. Every chance you get you hype Superman to the point of hilarity when even in the dcu he's not the ultimate badass you have dreamed up him to be.
Originally posted by Naija boynaija, surfer is not really close to superman in terms of actual combat speed.
A considerable amount of respected and knowledgeable posters (None of the apparent morons you mentioned) consider Surfer to be within a similar speed range as Superman, and its not just because of that feat which keeps being thrown about in this thread. He has many more feats illustrating both his physical and mental speed, ranging from speed blitzes, mentally tracking electrical signals, mentally reacting to billions of stars while moving FTL etc.Now he isnt in the same speed class as Zoom but quite frankly neither is Wally. Neither are close. In regards to Wally though, I doubt that it would be viewed as at all far fetched to think that superman would be able to get off a thought in a fight against him before being koed, and going by the belief that he and Surfer are within similar speed range (as well as the concrete feats of Surfers mental speed and reactions), then it really wouldnt at all be farfetched to think the same of Surfer.
Team two doesnt need 2 members as long as Zoom is the only member.
Originally posted by Naija boy
A considerable amount of respected and knowledgeable posters (None of the apparent morons you mentioned) consider Surfer to be within a similar speed range Superman, and its not just because of that feat which keeps being thrown about in this thread. He has many more feats illustrating both his physical and mental speed, ranging from speed blitzes, mentally tracking electrical signals, mentally reacting to billions of stars while moving FTL etc.Now he isnt in the same speed class as Zoom but quite frankly neither is Wally. Neither are close. In regards to Wally though, I doubt that it would be viewed as at all far fetched to think that superman would be able to get off a thought in a fight against him before being koed, and going by the belief that he and Surfer are within similar speed range (as well as the concrete feats of Surfers mental speed and reactios), then it really wouldnt at all be farfetched to think the same of Surfer.
Team two doesnt need 2 members as long as Zoom is the only member.
I agree about Surfer and Supes being in the same range of speed, for the most part.
I agree that Wally isn't as fast as Zoom but going all out like this he has many ways to put Superman down. His high feats still beat Superman to the point where I would give him a majority.
I don't really disagree with you much at all actually. My problem was the apparent speed discrepancy that people don't realize and arguing dense things like Wally can't punch 1,000 in a second, when Superman can do that IMO.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterSpare me your condescending attitude and actually go with what's stated on panel not dismiss what you want and accept what you want.
This thread has all the big geniuses.Shoko, Quan, Carver, *and* Bruce.
I'm honored...
Now, if only h1a8 were here...
I'm sorry to offend you master. Please forgive my ignorant ways...
No feat put up as of yet is anywhere close to someone reacting to the Surfer as seen by Thanos. You can continue to dream but you won't find anything more impressive.
Originally posted by quanchi112I'm not being condescending sir.
Spare me your condescending attitude and actually go with what's stated on panel not dismiss what you want and accept what you want.No feat put up as of yet is anywhere close to someone reacting to the Surfer as seen by Thanos. You can continue to dream but you won't find anything more impressive.
Originally posted by Starscream MDidn't you just wish other members to be banned?
c-master, I don't appreciate being mocked. 😬
Originally posted by quanchi112People will think what they think it's not my job to change that (as proven by the thread here).
I really don't care what you think about me but don't insult my intelligence and act like you're being genuine here.
So I'm gone and there is STILL no proof of Flash or Zoom throwing millionS or billionS of punches in less than a second I see. Only inference and conjecture on many people's part. Shoot we don't even see a scan were flash or zoom threw that many punches, let alone KO'd someone on the level of surfer..let alone Thanos. Both Surfer and Thanos have displayed ftl reflexes. Sure they are slower than either party here.. Cool. Never argued otherwise. What I am arguing is that they will land blows... many blows before Surfer or Thanos can react, but won't be KO'd before they can fire and omni blast, teleport, raise shields or any numbers of things they can do. All the conjecture about what they could or couldn't do is great.. yet when it comes down to it.. we have never seen them throw the amount of punches in much much less than a second (how fast they woudl have to considering surfer and thanos reaction speeds) and they haven't KO'd ANYBODY of significance using said tactic.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So I'm gone and there is STILL no proof of Flash or Zoom throwing millionS or billionS of punches in less than a second I see. Only inference and conjecture on many people's part. Shoot we don't even see a scan were flash or zoom threw that many punches, let alone KO'd someone on the level of surfer..let alone Thanos. Both Surfer and Thanos have displayed ftl reflexes. Sure they are slower than either party here.. Cool. Never argued otherwise. What I am arguing is that they will land blows... many blows before Surfer or Thanos can react, but won't be KO'd before they can fire and omni blast, teleport, raise shields or any numbers of things they can do. All the conjecture about what they could or couldn't do is great.. yet when it comes down to it.. we have never seen them throw the amount of punches in much much less than a second (how fast they woudl have to considering surfer and thanos reaction speeds) and they haven't KO'd ANYBODY of significance using said tactic.
Originally posted by Uriel005
Inference is fine if you can prove it definitively on powerset. The trick here is CIS and PIS off. If flash took the kids gloves off and threw that many IMP at any villain there would be no point. It's why Solomon Grundy can stand up to him and supes. His speed isn't really off the chart but the writers make Flash and Supes on a level that he can put up a challenge. The fact that he can throw an infinite mass punch means flash can throw at least a hundred thousand in a second assuming hes IMP all of those punches with no problem. Also flash can move much faster than light. Wally can break speed force barrier which is beyond time. He can go to litterally infinite speed and CIS off he would on every major villain. Look at SBP had no way to react to the Flashes moving at Speed Force speeds. SBP may not be as fast as Surfer but for him not able to even react makes me think that Surfer wouldn't be able to catch Wally.
Inference is NOT fine without corroborating evidence. It becomes even less usable as proof if there is evidence that seem to contradict it (or implies some level of contradiction). Thing is, there has been MANY instances where 1000s of IMPs would have been useful in helping save the world or perform critical tasks (thus enough motivation for him to do so) as well as enough opportunities for him to perform said punches. But why is there not a single scan that can be provided showing that he's even been able to do this once?
Also, there has been MANY instances where he's thrown thousands (if not millions) of punches. Why weren't THESE IMPs?
Now you may call that PIS but IMO, PIS HAS to go counter to a character's majority showings. The SHEER ABSENCE of ANY PROOF whatsoever showing that he has thrown thousands if not millions of IMPs seem to imply that being able to throw 1000s/millions of IMPs isn't part of his majority showings, hence NOT PIS. Especially since he's been shown to thrown IMPs (BUT NOT thousans of it) as well as thrown thousands of punches (but not IMPs). The "science" might support you (which is worth little in fictional comics), but history does not (w/c is more important).
One possible explanation (and this is a COMPLETE shot in the dark, so don't take it too seriously) is that perhaps the first IMPs throw ppl clear into the sky (outside the range of further IMPs), forcing the Flash to chase down the flying body to deliver more blows (this has certainly happened on-panel).
I can actually see this happening to the Surfer. He'd get tossed away by the force of the blow at beyond light speed. But once he's thrown clear (w/c would allow him time to react), he can then think "PLANET-WIDE OMNI BLAST" and it would be game over.
Honestly, I'd love to see a single scan where 1000s of back-to-back IMPs were performed. That way, I can concede this point, nod my head in respect and go to the other debates.
Also, no one here is disputing that Wally/Zoom is too fast for the Surfer/Thanos to catch (well, maybe quan). Yes, with CIS-off they are in several order of magnitudes FASTER than the Surfer in terms of combat/reaction speed. What we're just saying is that the Surfer might just be fast enough (due to feats of mental processing and thought speed as well as nanosecond reaction) to be allowed ONE thought in between all the flying IMP fist punches to the jaw to deliver a power attack that would then allow them time to raise defenses and beat the pair once they get their bearing.
I think we both sides could perhaps just agree to disagree on whether or not either side wins or perhaps give this a tie standing like "half the time T1 stomps, other half T2 stomps".
I dunno, I think this debate has reached an impasse(IMO).