Originally posted by Starscream MNot really. Remember when Mirai trunk and Vegeta were fighting the androids? They were stronger, but they didn't gain any speed.
this is true.In DBZ, every time a character became more powerful, he became much much faster.
The only exception was the 'ultra saiyan' stage.
Originally posted by jinzinI actually like many DBZ characters even more than many Marvel characters.
"Double standard".... Yep... That's pretty much exactly why. 😬
Can't help but have a double standard though. They aren't measured in the same way so they won't have the same standards.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaWhich is my point. The power levels are more like a rough gauge. They aren't an exact jump in power. DBZ is way too inconsistent for that to be true anyways.
Correct.Roshi was only about 28 times more powerful than an average farmer (powerlevel of 139 to the farmer's 5) yet he destroyed the moon.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I've never seen anything that said that a person's power level being twice as high doubled them out in every way.The reason I said what I said is because within "standard humans" some people are naturally stronger, faster, etc, than others. It didn't bring a person's power level up to insane levels because of that. (From what I've seen.)
Does anybody have examples otherwise? I'll be happy to look them up and post them for the world.
Kioken proved that's how Power Levels work.
No, most humans in DBZ suffer severe limitations regardless of their stature because they can't strengthen their power levels... Power levels strengthen every category of combat, this is a notion suggested/proven in the early tournements of the series which is why full grown men, and even monsters got their crap kicked in by DragonBall children.
Again by the DBZ standard being at 10 would definitely mean you're twice as strong, fast, durable etc than someone at 5.
There's nothing outright that contradicts this as far as I can remember. Anything that did so would definitely fall into the exception category and not the rule.
The whole of the series supports that premise that a higher power level means a higher ability across the board.
Originally posted by Starscream MWhich is useless to use to compare to those who do not have power levels attatched to them.
um...just because you can't simply add power levels to equal a higher power level does not mean they're not quantifiable.the power levels exist...for the sole reason of quantifying who is more powerful.
What's Superman's power level in 1983? 1993? 2003? 2010?
What's Jubilee's power level? What's batman's power level?
Wouldn't Jubilee having a higher energy output mean that she was a higher power level? She can wave her hands and destroy a mansion. Batman can't do that.
Does that mean that she could beat batman in a fight?
Originally posted by jinzinLike how Superman is hurt by people with less damage output than a black hole, yet was able to survive and escape a double black hole and hold a micro black hole in his hands?
So.... Like I said, it comes down to if you give credence to the storytelling devices DBZ uses, or opt to ignore it for your own bias interpretations...You can argue both ways but only one of them really matters to anyone legitimately trying to make an argument that isn't hung up on devil's advocacy... *shrug*
Which one is plot and which one is ability?
Originally posted by Creshosk
At precicely what level is needed to be able to be bullet proof?At precicely what level is one able to fly?
At preceicely what level is a person a class 10? Class 50? 100?
What is the EXACT number one needs to be able to destroy a car? A house? A mountain?
You can't answer that because the numbers to translate into that don't exist.
PL are not translateable into other merits and therefore cannot be quantified. It's like most RPG stats. Only useful within that world.
An ultimate attack in one RPG that kills a dragon might do 999 hp in damage. That number might be really high in some RPGs such as pokemon(that's the maximum display value), or that number might be really low in rpgs like Final fantasy.(I can do 9999 damage 8 times with a single move and not even scratch the monster)
Its the same with the PL it only has meaning IN DBZ.
I see them doing non quantifiable things that most street levelers can do.
And you as well.
Sure, they don't exist at a bare mimimum level but you can apply the abilities retrospectively.
They ARE quantifiable because someone with feats at a power level of ten can be multiplied to be twice as powerful by a level of 20... Ignore it if you like, but you're not making a strong argument against DBZ at that point, you're arguing against some quasi series that doesn't exist outside of your own head. 😕
DBZ is not an RPG.
Originally posted by jinzinI have no problem with a character of a much higher power level being more powerful, it just doesn't calculate to a perfect amount in the manner you suggested. Several posters listed examples of what I mean. Which is why a normal man who might be much more athletic is still a 5 (as long as it isn't a over the top case), compared to an average woman who is a 5.
Kioken proved that's how Power Levels work.No, most humans in DBZ suffer severe limitations regardless of their stature because they can't strengthen their power levels... Power levels strengthen every category of combat, this is a notion suggested/proven in the early tournements of the series which is why full grown men, and even monsters got their crap kicked in by DragonBall children.
Again by the DBZ standard being at 10 would definitely mean you're twice as strong, fast, durable etc than someone at 5.
There's nothing outright that contradicts this as far as I can remember. Anything that did so would definitely fall into the exception category and not the rule.The whole of the series supports that premise that a higher power level means a higher ability across the board.
Like I said, maybe it is just me and the other posters. But do you have a part where this is explained? I'd be happy to see it.
Originally posted by Creshoskits not useless in DBZ because in DBZ power levels correlate to overall levels of strength, speed, durability AND energy output. As you increase in power levels, ALL of those attributes increase.
Which is useless to use to compare to those who do not have power levels attatched to them.What's Superman's power level in 1983? 1993? 2003? 2010?
What's Jubilee's power level? What's batman's power level?
Wouldn't Jubilee having a higher energy output mean that she was a higher power level? She can wave her hands and destroy a mansion. Batman can't do that.
Does that mean that she could beat batman in a fight?
Jubilee would prob not be much higher than Batman on power level scale (if there were one) simply because Batman is more skilled, more durable, stronger, and faster...whereas jubilee has advantage only in energy output.
Now, a guy like spiderman would be on higher powerlevel than batman because spiderman is stronger, faster, and more durable. And spiderman would beat batman in a fight barring PIS.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Not really. Remember when Mirai trunk and Vegeta were fighting the androids? They were stronger, but they didn't gain any speed.
Duuh, it explained it in the series why he lost his speed, his body turned into the hulk, goku stated that it was hard to maneaver with all of that mass. That didn't help your argument.
Originally posted by -Pr-Especially with DBZ characters.
character's own mouth isn't stonewall proof in most cases.
Good lord the trash talking and boasting that they do.
In my final form I will be invicible... except that I won't be and will be killed by a kid. An exceptional kid, but a kid nontheless who gets even more powerful when he grows up.
Originally posted by Tha C-Masterthe reason is because a single unit confers a great power distinction. hence most humans would be in the same power level, regardless of one person being quite a bit stronger.
Which is why a normal man who might be much more athletic is still a 5 (as long as it isn't a over the top case), compared to an average woman who is a 5.
That's why Roshi, who's power level was 139....is vastly more powerful than a 5 human.
Originally posted by Starscream MNobody is arguing that so much as they're arguing the power levels don't just stack in the exact manner as suggested.
its not useless in DBZ because in DBZ power levels correlate to overall levels of strength, speed, durability AND energy output. As you increase in power levels, ALL of those attributes increase.Jubilee would prob not be much higher than Batman on power level scale (if there were one) simply because Batman is more skilled, more durable, stronger, and faster...whereas jubilee has advantage only in energy output.
Now, a guy like spiderman would be on higher powerlevel than batman because spiderman is stronger, faster, and more durable. And spiderman would beat batman in a fight barring PIS.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Correct.Roshi was only about 28 times more powerful than an average farmer (powerlevel of 139 to the farmer's 5) yet he destroyed the moon.
Again it comes down to the fact that regular people in DBZ don't know how to manipulate their chi, so even though they have it they can't use it...
Roshi could....
This is suggested when Goku decided to try to use the Kamehameha for the first time in the series. He was obviously already able to manipulate his chi which is why he was picking up cars, and bullet proof at level 10...
If anything this argument actually makes things worse for Thanos supporters as if it suggests or proves anything it's that being at a 10 doesn't make you as WEAK as only twice the overall stats as someone of a 5. 😬