Originally posted by NephthysIn a word: No. I've answered all of those points on multiple occasions with the same conclusion:
Oh, I quite agree. Now answer my post old man.
-You can do nothing but cite gameplay. Prove to me it's slow with some shred of evidence that's not a gameplay mechanic, plx n' thnx?
-It's moot in this thread as Link wins without being a lightning timer until someone posts an actual feat for Lloyd, and I'm not going to argue endlessly over a valid feat if none are shown for Lloyd. I refuse to be trolled for coming out of retirement long enough to add some life to a dying thread.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
In a word: No. I've answered all of those points on multiple occasions with the same conclusion:-You can do nothing but cite gameplay. Prove to me it's slow with some shred of evidence that's not a gameplay mechanic, plx n' thnx?
-It's moot in this thread as Link wins without being a lightning timer until someone posts an actual feat for Lloyd, and I'm not going to argue endlessly over a valid feat if none are shown for Lloyd. I refuse to be trolled for coming out of retirement long enough to add some life to a dying thread.
You repeated yourself, you haven't answered to the refutations at all.
We don't have to prove it's slow, you have to prove it's fast.
I don't know why you say Link wins. Unlike him, Lloyd has a valid feat.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, you claimed Occam's razor and then came up with a bullshit theory.
Must I go over this again? My theory is simpler than yours, thus it is the more logical unless you can prove my theory is impossible. Which you have been avoiding even trying to do so far.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
In the same way that if I hit you with a sword you'll be wounded, but if say, I had the strength of Spiderman, and you tried to block an attack from me, your arm would be torn off.Link's body was struck by multiple gigjaloules with no harm whatsoever, he is super durable.
Edit: So, in closing, no, you have nothing to support Lloyd?
His body isn't struck at all. If I blocked an attack from you with Spiderman strength, my hand would loose grip of the sword LONG before my arm was torn off. Which is exactly what we see in this scene. Ganon's strength knocks the sword out of Links hand.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You know, just because Link arguably cannot react to lightning doesn't mean he can't, say, headbutt Lloyd's head off. Or many other things. Cause Link is still leading in terms of feats.
I don't see that. So far, the only thing Link has going for him that isn't in the middle of being debated is his superior strength thanks to the golden gauntlets. And again, that alone doesn't give him the victory.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Ok. Post them, and post them with videos so everyone else can see them. As for Lloyd, he blocked/reacted/deflected call it whatever you want a lightning bolt outside gameplay.
lol you tell me to post video of feats and then you don't even have the courtesy to do the same.
At 6:41, Link recieves a spell which eventually does make him very hard to actually hurt. Impossible last I checked.
Here Link demonstrates one of the more infamous feats of his at 7:25. According to Scream's math, which I don't bother to check though I haven't seen it disproven yet, that pillar weighed around 1300 tons. If I remember correctly, which I could be wrong.
You can find a list of Link's weapons from OoT Here. The most helpful of these in my humble opinion is the deku nuts. Being able to stun your opponent, especially a lightning reacting one, is quite helpful.
Finally, we have Link himself who is incredibly smart and quick witted. He reacts quickly to his bosses and quickly goes from weapon to weapon in order to defeat them. He is smart.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
lol you tell me to post video of feats and then you don't even have the courtesy to do the same.
I have said that I never played these games, I just posted an agreement with Tac about the lightning argument and I was suddenly involved in the discussion. By the way, it's you guys who must provide evidence for your claims.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
At 6:41, Link recieves a spell which eventually does make him very hard to actually hurt. Impossible last I checked.
What is that? Elaborate a bit more because I don't get it.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Here Link demonstrates one of the more infamous feats of his at 7:25. According to Scream's math, which I don't bother to check though I haven't seen it disproven yet, that pillar weighed around 1300 tons. If I remember correctly, which I could be wrong.
That's a nice one. But according to Tac, Link has super-strength or can lift heavy things thanks to some gauntlets. And there is not evidence that the stone pillar weights 1300 tons. But yeah, nice feat.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You can find a list of Link's weapons from OoT Here. The most helpful of these in my humble opinion is the deku nuts. Being able to stun your opponent, especially a lightning reacting one, is quite helpful.Finally, we have Link himself who is incredibly smart and quick witted. He reacts quickly to his bosses and quickly goes from weapon to weapon in order to defeat them. He is smart.
Hmm... but all of those items and thus abilities aren't from gameplay? Just asking.
The 'he goes from weapon to weapon' isn't a gameplay mechanic? And yeah, I'm also smart.
If I remember correctly, which I could be wrong.
So far, with a net fighting back, weakened slave-like people in ToS are pushing around 10 tons. IMO them at normal strength would be 10 tonners but not sure what that speaks for the mains.
One has him charging darkness to form a light orb, the other has electricity to do the same. Figured Scene would have picked up on that. The attack used later is a different one OR this attack became the electric one, and that would take away the notion of lightning speed. Both ways speak against the speed wanted.Unless theres a good, solid reason its hard to say it is 'cause it is. Even then the person cant always be a lightning timer, its the reason the weakest pokemon/humans or characters in The Avatar do it with speed and reactions well below sonic speeds.
OH! No ones brought up the pacing. Throughout OoT and TP both Link's shown human speed and human reactions. Nothing more, and sometimes less. (Yes, I've got some vids to back this up is they're needed/wanted) Now why is it to be believed that someone with human speeds for 98% of the game would suddenly jump up to lighting speeds with no power boost, enhancement or reason? Make sense of it will ya.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I have said that I never played these games, I just posted an agreement with Tac about the lightning argument and I was suddenly involved in the discussion. By the way, it's you guys who must provide evidence for your claims.
Neither have I sport. 🙂
And no. The burden of proof is on both parties. If I give some, so do you.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What is that? Elaborate a bit more because I don't get it.
It's an invincibility spell.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
That's a nice one. But according to Tac, Link has super-strength or can lift heavy things thanks to some gauntlets. And there is not evidence that the stone pillar weights 1300 tons. But yeah, nice feat.
Gauntlets he will be wearing during the fight. And if you want evidence of it's weight, consult with Scream or BR.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Hmm... but all of those items and thus abilities aren't from gameplay? Just asking.The 'he goes from weapon to weapon' isn't a gameplay mechanic? And yeah, I'm also smart.
No more so than Squall's Gunblade or spells. But we don't take those from him in his threads so why treat Link any different.
The ability to switch weapons is a gameplay mechanic. Point? Unlike Scream, I don't care if you call gameplay kid. Cutscenes are more important but gameplay can't be removed in every situation. And I really don't care if you're smart.
Originally posted by BloodRain
600-7000 tons at 30-50m/s. And the impossible to harm spell is a no limits fallacy.So far, with a net fighting back, weakened slave-like people in ToS are pushing around 10 tons. IMO them at normal strength would be 10 tonners but not sure what that speaks for the mains.
*cough*
I see. Then we shall call it a very strong defense spell. Not that it matters because I have no idea how strong Lloyd is.
Thanks for clearing up the pillar weight. Truth be told I trust your calculations more than Screams, if only because he is a Link fan and you're not.
Must I go over this again? My theory is simpler than yours, thus it is the more logical unless you can prove my theory is impossible. Which you have been avoiding even trying to do so far.No, it wasn't, you had Ganondorf invent a newer, less useful attack on the spot to coincide with the gameplay. Not valid.
His body isn't struck at all. If I blocked an attack from you with Spiderman strength, my hand would loose grip of the sword LONG before my arm was torn off. Which is exactly what we see in this scene. Ganon's strength knocks the sword out of Links hand.Negative, your arm would be shattered and you'd probably die. Ganondorf is much, much stronger than spiderman, this is a great durability feat.
600-7000 tons at 30-50m/I'll argue with you about this when the difference actually matters.
I don't see that. So far, the only thing Link has going for him that isn't in the middle of being debated is his superior strength thanks to the golden gauntlets. And again, that alone doesn't give him the victory.And surperior durability and an equally good or better reaction feat. Now, prove to me Lloyd can actually harm Link if he lands a blow, or concede.
We don't have to prove it's slow, you have to prove it's fastI've done so, you need to actually refute it to claim it's slow in light of the canon saying it's fast. You've not done so yet.
Prove it's slow using something other than the gameplay representation, we'll talk then, hm?
-You can do nothing but cite gameplay. Prove to me it's slow with some shred of evidence that's not a gameplay mechanic, plx n' thnx?
GrieverSqualls right here SP, I don't have to prove its slow, you have to prove its fast. And for each time you type 'its freaking lightning' I'll just post 'its a ball and not as fast as lightning.' Both arguments use gameplay mechanics. You cannot prove that it is lightning without using evidence based off of gameplay mechanics, and that it is intrinsically fast as a product of being lightning is the basis of your entire argument. Your 'you can't use gameplay' argument is therefore self defeating and bluh di bluh di bluh I win.
-It's moot in this thread as Link wins without being a lightning timer until someone posts an actual feat for Lloyd, and I'm not going to argue endlessly over a valid feat if none are shown for Lloyd. I refuse to be trolled for coming out of retirement long enough to add some life to a dying thread.
Then give up the point. I mean like 5 people have told you and proven to you that its bullshit so if you don't want to continue debating it just give up.
Negative, your arm would be shattered and you'd probably die. Ganondorf is much, much stronger than spiderman, this is a great durability feat.
I assume you have some evidence to back this claim, rather than just endlessly going 'nah your arm would brake lol.'
GrieverSqualls right here SP, I don't have to prove its slow, you have to prove its fast.Like I already did, by citing canon?
Then give up the point. I mean like 5 people have told you and proven to you that its bullshit so if you don't want to continue debating it just give up.None have proven it's bullshit, you've all cited gameplay mechanics, nothing else.
I assume you have some evidence to back this claim, rather than just endlessly going 'nah your arm would brake lol.'
Like I already did, by citing canon?
How does him using lightning attacks outside of the fight prove that he used lightning attacks in this fight? Like, at all? Becuase that has zero ****ing relevence on this instance.
None have proven it's bullshit, you've all cited gameplay mechanics, nothing else.
The entire feat happens in gameplay. It's impossible to even begin to talk about the feat without citing gameplay. Seriously. I mean, prove that the attack even happens without citing gameplay. You can't do it, becasue the entire thing happens in gameplay.
Yeah, I do, do you have any idea the kind of force it takes to move several hundred tons at high speed? That's the kind of force behind Ganon's sword, and Link survives, unscathed.
That...... doesn't even begin to prove anything. It's just you saying 'nah your arm would brake' again.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Human reaction times? Well, that's a lie if I ever heard one.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'll argue with you about this when the difference actually matters.
Was looking for more feats but youtube is being a high class ***** right now .__.
only because he is a Link fan and you're not.
How does him using lightning attacks outside of the fight prove that he used lightning attacks in this fight? Like, at all? Becuase that has zero ****ing relevence on this instance.You mean the fight with the blatant lightning animations?
The entire feat happens in gameplay. It's impossible to even begin to talk about the feat without citing gameplay. Seriously. I mean, prove that the attack even happens without citing gameplay. You can't do it, becasue the entire thing happens in gameplay.The difference being we know it happened, and that Link had to deflect it to beat the game. This is the same as citing that Link at some point had to push a block to beat the game. It's mandatory. You cannot cite the gameplay speed of a projectile.
That...... doesn't even begin to prove anything. It's just you saying 'nah your arm would brake' again.