Lloyd Irving vs Link

Started by TheAuraAngel39 pages
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
How about in OoT when Link beat Dark Link? You know, the guy who's so good he can back flip onto your sword.

1. Happens in gameplay. And while I don't mind counting it, these guys do and will tear you a new one.

2. That really doesn't prove anything for Link.

1. Well, if we can't count that, then I really don't see how they can count speed of the attack in game play as it's actual speed.

2. It proves a lot. He can react to someone fast enough to back flip onto a sword thrust.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. Well, if we can't count that, then I really don't see how they can count speed of the attack in game play as it's actual speed.

2. It proves a lot. He can react to someone fast enough to back flip onto a sword thrust.

1. It varies. See where all Link's weapons and shits were mentioned as all gameplay, like the word is synonymous with plague.

2. Eh, not really. Judging purely on the boss fight I saw, Link just hammered away until he finally decided to die. Seemed more like a battle of attrition more than anything. If Link could do the sword thing it would mean a little more but he never does.

Not that Link can't win via attrition since we have no feats for Lloyd that mean anything.

There's several ways to defeat Dark Link. Mindlessly hammering away with the sword is not one of them. Believe me, I tried. Because I couldn't make the hammer work.

But no, seriously. If someone has the speed to back flip onto a sword, they're above human speed and reflexes.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
There's several ways to defeat Dark Link. Mindlessly hammering away with the sword is not one of them. Believe me, I tried. Because I couldn't make the hammer work.

But no, seriously. If someone has the speed to back flip onto a sword, they're above human speed and reflexes.

I beg to differ good sir.

YouTube video

Now, what are the other ways to do it?

Don't prove me wrong. What do you think this is, a debate?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
How about in OoT when Link beat Dark Link? You know, the guy who's so good he can back flip onto your sword.

DLink > Link in terms of movement speed. If Link has.. peak human attacks then DLink has peak+/just scraping superhuman movements. All this does is confirm Link being in the human/peak range for allowing a being that's barely above peak speed to outmanoeuvre him.
This gives him peak attack with superhuman reactions. What's that, ⅓ supersonic? :/

In what way is he outmaneuvered? Dark Link moves faster, but Link still reacts to him. Otherwise he wouldn't be, you know, alive to fight Ganon.

Originally posted by BloodRain
DLink > Link in terms of movement speed. If Link has.. peak human attacks then DLink has peak+/just scraping superhuman movements. All this does is confirm Link being in the human/peak range for allowing a being that's barely above peak speed to outmanoeuvre him.
This gives him peak attack with superhuman reactions. What's that, ⅓ supersonic? :/
Actually, Dark Link's atleast fast enough to Backflip onto a bullet, OoT Link has demonstrable 0.002 swing speed, not counting the lightning.

As in physically faster then Link to a point of dodging his attacks in the manner he did.

Unless Link got 600x faster from this point to Dorf.... he's at peak.

Edit: Forgot, what were the spin numbers again? Anyhow even if DLink's a bullet timer that still makes Link < bullet speed/DLink.

That's not outmaneuvering though. And it does not mean that Dark Link has Link beaten in reaction times. Link keeps up, just not in foot races or anything.

Outmanoeuvre most of his movements then. Yes it does, if not by much, Link failing to react to him jumping on the sword so his makes his reactions below DLink's speed. At the very best could say Link is close to DLink's even if his speed falls short.

Edit...ish: Backtracked to look at the spin and figs. 540/90 makes him 6x faster then his 0.1(?) spin = 0.016 (not 0.002) to a humans 0.2 attack.
12.5x faster then a human puts him at 125m/s.... hah a tiny bit over a third sonic, guessed right 😊

It was a 585 or something and I accidentally got an extra 0 in there somehow, meh, point is, Link is far faster than human with or without the lightning feat, and until someone posts a feat for Lloyd, Link wins.

Class 100+, super durable lightning timer > Lloyd's face.

One and a half spins, 540 deg. Him showing worse reactions then a half-bullet speed enemy speaks for the lighting deal. Even looking over to TP Link facing the electric attack while having 4 instances of below peak reactions. You telling me a guy who couldn't react past 6x peak movements and another who only has human reactions can lighting time?

Searching more for Lloyd.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, it wasn't, you had Ganondorf invent a newer, less useful attack on the spot to coincide with the gameplay. Not valid.

Why is it hard to believe that Ganon has different attacks in a different game? His abilities change from game to game. My theory is still simpler.

It's simpler to assume the developers gave Ganon a new attack for a new game, rather than saying he is using an old attack that looks new, and slows down time even though we can't verify that at all as there is nothing on screen that changes.

Yeah... Mines simpler. Still waiting for you to prove it impossible.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Negative, your arm would be shattered and you'd probably die. Ganondorf is much, much stronger than spiderman, this is a great durability feat.

No I wouldn't. Maybe if Ganon's attack hit me straight on, which it didn't do with Link. Link didn't tank that attack. Had that hit him, he would be dead. Thankfully, it only nicked the sword out of his hand.

What are you all talking about with Link swinging his sword at super sonic speeds? What part of the game is that coming from?

No I wouldn't. Maybe if Ganon's attack hit me straight on, which it didn't do with Link. Link didn't tank that attack. Had that hit him, he would be dead. Thankfully, it only nicked the sword out of his hand.

I want you to stop and consider what you're saying.

Do you have any idea how much force is at work here? haermm If that were you holding Link's sword you would have been reduced to a liquid. 😐 This is not exaggeration.

Yeah... Mines simpler. Still waiting for you to prove it impossible.

I don't have to prove it's impossible, nor will I, with no feats being shown for Lloyd he can't win anyway. Just because your ridiculous theory isn't wholly impossible does not make it valid. 😬 Theoreticly, Lloyd could simply be grounded. Nothing actually supports that, but when he's hit with the lightning and doesn't die it's kind of odd, I mean, can you prove Lloyd's not grounded? OCCAM'S RAZOR SAYS HE MUST BE!!

😬

You mean the fight with the blatant lightning animations?

Yes, the fight with blatant lightnng animations, just as its the fight with blatant ball lightning and completely shitty speed. How many ****ing times are you going to repeat that useless bit of information.

The difference being we know it happened, and that Link had to deflect it to beat the game. This is the same as citing that Link at some point had to push a block to beat the game. It's mandatory. You cannot cite the gameplay speed of a projectile.

Why, because you decided thats the case? No, you do not get to pick and choose what you'll accept as evidence, particularly when you are now wanking Link by timing one of his frickin attack animations. No offense, but you're full of shit.


Alright, what exactly are you asking for? Proof that gigajoules of force would break an arm? I'm sure you'd like proof this way is up^, too? This is an insane thing to say. The strength behind Ganondorf's swing would reduce a man to a fine paste if they tried to block, Link isn't harmed.

Yes, I'm asking for proof that gigajoules of force would brake his arm instead of simply knocking the damn thing out of his hand. You need to prove that the first is more feasible a reaction than the latter.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The burden of proof is on both parties. If I give some, so do you.

That's not quite right. In a debate, if you claim something, you must provide evidence for that claim.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It's an invincibility spell.

Gauntlets he will be wearing during the fight. And if you want evidence of it's weight, consult with Scream or BR.

Just as BloodRain said, it's a No Limits Fallacy.

There is no factual evidence about its weight. Unless stated by the creators or some official source, it's all hypothesis.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No more so than Squall's Gunblade or spells. But we don't take those from him in his threads so why treat Link any different.

The ability to switch weapons is a gameplay mechanic. Point? Unlike Scream, I don't care if you call gameplay kid. Cutscenes are more important but gameplay can't be removed in every situation. And I really don't care if you're smart.

Actually, yes, we do. Squall's spells are up to the player. You guys love to use gameplay, huh? The only valid feat here it's Lloyd's. We cannot use gameplay to prove everything. Otherwise, I could claim that every characters are bullet-timers because they fought enemies with guns, they are laser-timers because they fought enemies with lasers, they can tank energy beams because they fought enemies that fired energy beams, etc.

Yes, it is. I don't think Link has the ability to carry over 1000 items in his pocket and switch them whenever he wants. Just as I don't think that Squall could carry Black Holes, Missiles, Hero Drinks, Elixirs, Laser Cannons and Dark Matters.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I have no idea how strong Lloyd is.

No? He's strong enough to effortlessly deflect lightning bolts that were strong enough to electrocute and kill another character. And that alone trumps everything I heard from Link so far. And is not from gameplay! =D

Either way, I'm not debating about who wins this fight, like I said I haven't played the games.