Lloyd Irving vs Link

No, that isn't how arguments work. First you need to prove or show some evidence towards the idea that it is lightning speed.

Ganon's attacks are consistently faster than the instance you cite, which is a lightning attack, we know Ganondorf's lightning attacks are full speed in canon and there's no reason he'd slow it down.

IE, thanks for conceding that you cannot do it. 🙂

Actually we do see it travel. It moves towards the camera. At not even close to lightning speeds I might add.

What 'canon'? That in appearances after this one he uses lightning based attacks that look nothing like and have nothing to do with this one? Yes, very compelling.

I dunno if a mediator would really change anything. Even if you called it one way or the other, I'm betting neither side would really listen having debated on forums like this before...

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This has already been done, this is why people keep claiming "refutes" on something they have no evidence disproving.

Ganon's attacks are consistently faster than the instance you cite, which is a lightning attack, we know Ganondorf's lightning attacks are full speed in canon and there's no reason he'd slow it down.

IE, thanks for conceding that you cannot do it. 🙂
Are we watching the same cutscene? We never see it travel.

1. It's freakin' lightning.
2. Ganon had lightning attacks before OoT, actually.
3. His non-lightning attack is so fast we cannot see it travel in the cutscene before he has the ToP. 😐

Hey! Don't ignore me!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon's attacks are consistently faster than the instance you cite,

Evidence of this?

which is a lightning attack,

Prove it.

we know Ganondorf's lightning attacks are full speed in canon

Attacks completely different and unrelated to this one.

and there's no reason he'd slow it down.

We do not need a reason.

IE, thanks for conceding that you cannot do it. 🙂

Whatever you say slugger.

Are we watching the same cutscene? We never see it travel.

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1.50 we can clearly see it move towards the camera. 😬

1. It's freakin' lightning.

Proof?

2. Ganon had lightning attacks before OoT, actually.

Chronologically? Then post up, don't leave us hanging here.

3. His non-lightning attack is so fast we cannot see it travel in the cutscene before he has the ToP. 😐

Except.....we do...... 😐

1.50 we can clearly see it move towards the camera.

Evidence of this?

Attacks completely different and unrelated to this one.

Except.....we do......

Proof?

Chronologically? Then post up, don't leave us hanging here.

Oh you mother****ers. Let it die already.

YouTube video

1:46 to 1:51 we can clearly spot that the ki blast is different from the one used in the Ganondorf boss fight.

YouTube video

At 2:12 we see the lightning charge up the attack, not the black magic or whatever that stuff was from the other video.

It is clearly not lightning speed. Ganondorf himself is throwing the attack at you, not holding his hand out and blasting you with lightning like ****ing Cole Mcgrath. It's being thrown as the player needs to have a chance to react to it.

Why would Ganondorf purposely use a inferior attack? Well that's quite simple dear chaps: He isn't. He is trading speed for power here. Consider the fact that that ball of lightning energy is packing enough power to momentarily stun Ganondorf. That indicates quite a bit of power, wouldn't you agree LLLC? It would make sense that he would use it. His triforce is power so obviously super powerful magic attacks are his thing. He is not thinking Link is a threat, probably because of his ego. He underestimates Link, who fell to an inferior attack 7 years prior, though he was only a child.

Short and sweet: The attack powers up more quickly in the boss fight and is packing a ton of power. Ganondorf is not focused on speed as he is using clearly power attacks, like punching the ground into nonexistence. It makes sense. However, given the fact that while they are different, might I suggest a compromise? Because the player has to be able to block the attack, it must be slowed down enough to hit it. How fast can Ganondorf really throw it? We can't tell.

So there are two choices: Accept the gameplay video or accept the cutscene speed, which is significantly faster than the former. The attacks appear to be very different but on the whole they are essentially the same ki blast wise. It's unlikely the dev team cared either way.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not the same attack so its bullshit to compare them. Besides, a person can grow more experienced and learn new ways to using their powers over time. See: every single piece of superhero fiction ever.

It's one of the most powerful things he would be familiar with. And Ganon isn't stupid either, he is already an accomplished sorceror. So I doubt he didn't think "Oh I wonder if I can shoot lightning" for hundreds of years while being consistently defeated by a reincarnated hero dressed in green.

1:46 to 1:51 we can clearly spot that the ki blast is different from the one used in the Ganondorf boss fight.

Why would Ganondorf purposely use a inferior attack? Well that's quite simple dear chaps: He isn't. He is trading speed for power here. Consider the fact that that ball of lightning energy is packing enough power to momentarily stun Ganondorf. That indicates quite a bit of power, wouldn't you agree LLLC? It would make sense that he would use it. His triforce is power so obviously super powerful magic attacks are his thing. He is not thinking Link is a threat, probably because of his ego. He underestimates Link, who fell to an inferior attack 7 years prior, though he was only a child.

So there are two choices: Accept the gameplay video or accept the cutscene speed, which is significantly faster than the former. The attacks appear to be very different but on the whole they are essentially the same ki blast wise. It's unlikely the dev team cared either way.

And would SOMEONE please for the LOVE OF GOD, post a ****ING FEAT FOR LLOYD?

Holy shit, guys. Do any of you even support him, or are you just here to give me grey hair constantly shooting down your oddball theories?! Greiver? Neph? Tac? Wtf. 😐

Note, Aura, your name's not there, your explanation atleast is within the realm of something rational, even if it's not really something that makes sense, it's not: "THERE MUST BE A TIMESLOW ANIMATION WHEN SOMETHING IS FAST."
holy shit. I am frustrated.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I am offended by this term

=| So, lightning is stronger if you slow it down? No, that holds no water, whatsoever. Nothing ever suggests that, and that would infact require Ganondorf to use his magic to intentionally make the lightning slower. This is not a valid theory.

I don't care?

Heavens no. But assume it is lightning. It's condensed no? In fact, it seemed to be several bolts of lightning shot into and condensed into that single Ki blast. Ganondorf is condensing it to make sure that t's packing power. Ganondorf is Throwing the attack, not shooting it. I can shoot you with a gun and hurt you, but I can also throw a grenade at you and hurt you more.

Edit: I know Scream. I love you too. :3

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I don't care?

Heavens no. But assume it is lightning. It's condensed no? In fact, it seemed to be several bolts of lightning shot into and condensed into that single Ki blast. Ganondorf is condensing it to make sure that t's packing power. Ganondorf is [b]Throwing the attack, not shooting it. I can shoot you with a gun and hurt you, but I can also throw a grenade at you and hurt you more.

Edit: I know Scream. I love you too. :3 [/B]

Currently Link's got strength and durability that would disallow a featless character from harming him or surviving his hits, and I can prove very high striking speed, not to mention slowing time and other shenanigans.

So, someone prove to me this is worth arguing over? How's that. Lightning's still a feat, but could Lloyd win even if it wasn't? I doubt it, until someone POSTS A FEAT DAMNIT.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
K, how about this, I'm not dropping the lightning feat, but can SOMEONE attempt to prove Lloyd is worth my arguing for it further?

Currently Link's got strength and durability that would disallow a featless character from harming him or surviving his hits, and I can prove very high striking speed, not to mention slowing time and other shenanigans.

So, someone prove to me this is worth arguing over? How's that. Lightning's still a feat, but could Lloyd win even if it wasn't? I doubt it, until someone [b]POSTS A FEAT DAMNIT. [/B]

The whole point of this thread is the lightning feat. No one here gives 2 shits about Lloyd. He gets no love. 🙁

Edit: I can't believe I didn't think of using InFamous as a good example for the lightning arguement. It's essentially the same concept too.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The whole point of this thread is the lightning feat. No one here gives 2 shits about Lloyd. He gets no love. 🙁

Edit: I can't believe I didn't think of using InFamous as a good example for the lightning arguement. It's essentially the same concept too.

GOOD DAY, SIR.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Then I HAVE ALREADY WON, AND I TAKE MY LEAVE BACK INTO MY RETIREMENT HOME WHERE IF YOU STEP ON MY LAWN I WILL THROW FECES AND OLD PEOPLE MAGAZINES AT YOU. >| THE ONES WITH YOUNG WOMEN IN THEIR STYLISH AND ONLY SEMI-REVEALING CLOTHES AND PAGES STUCK TOGETHER.

GOOD DAY, SIR.

Why are you acting like I haven't supplied any argument? I have, you are consistently ignoring me.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You mean the [b]flash? haermm nice try, mah boi. 😐[/b]

Flash, wut? Its the ball moving towards teh camera. You can see that it stays teh same shape throughout the movement because it keeps the same slightly fuzzy outline around it thoughout the movement. Plus flashes (as in a flash of mother****ing light) are alot faster than that man c'mon. 😬

See the cutscene we're now arguing over in your constant attempt to downplay Link's feats.

So one other, highly contentious and unclear feat is being 'consistently faster' is it? lol.

No, we don't, if you're actually going to claim that, your bias is showing, that's nothing but a flash. 😐

Bullshit is it a flash. And bias? Lol, I havn't played a Zelda game since I was 6, how the hell can I be bias towards Link. 😆

How about the fact it's a freakin lightning bolt in his hand?

What makes it a bolt of lightning (though it's actually a freakin ball 😐) rather than a magic ball? You're still relying on gameplay evidence for this conclusion, even though that same evidence contradicts and overrules said conclusion. In short, prove it.

Proof? Based on anything other than it's gameplay appearance? How about the fact a non-electric ball earlier in the game moves much faster? How do you explain this? 😬

A conpletely seperate and different attack being faster proves its lightning how exactly? Come on you can do better than this.

The four sword games which I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Video of this? And if I recall, that was the Tridant doing it, not Ganon.

Holy shit, guys. Do any of you even support him, or are you just here to give me grey hair constantly shooting down your oddball theories?! Greiver? Neph? Tac? Wtf.

No and yes in that order. I've told you this already.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Why are you acting like I haven't supplied any argument? I have, you are consistently ignoring me.

You said you "reject" Link's durability, that is not an argument. :3 Go get feat, or get off my lawn, I'm retired. I was nice enough to give this thread some actual discussion, so be a dear and do your part, hm?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Then what is your argument? All I've seen you do is claim Link's not a lightning timer, when even if he weren't he has strength and durability feats that will win him this fight casually until you prove Lloyd can harm him.

You said you "reject" Link's durability, that is not an argument. :3 Go get feat, or get off my lawn, I'm retired. I was nice enough to give this thread some actual discussion, so be a dear and do your part, hm?

No, I used Occam's Razor to prove your theory does not hold up.

As for Links durability, I talked about that several posts ago. You claim that since Ganon knocked his sword out of his hand, he's super durable. Link didn't take the brunt of that attack. It only knocked his sword. Had Link taken the hit from that attack, he would have been killed or seriously wounded.

No, I used Occam's Razor to prove your theory does not hold up.

As for Links durability, I talked about that several posts ago. You claim that since Ganon knocked his sword out of his hand, he's super durable. Link didn't take the brunt of that attack. It only knocked his sword. Had Link taken the hit from that attack, he would have been killed or seriously wounded.

Link's body was struck by multiple gigjaloules with no harm whatsoever, he is super durable.

Edit: So, in closing, no, you have nothing to support Lloyd?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually we do see it travel. It moves towards the camera. At not even close to lightning speeds I might add.

No, that isn't how arguments work. First you need to prove or show some evidence towards the idea that it [b]is lightning speed. Then he can refute it. So go ahead, but I can guarantee you can't do it without citing gameplay, at which point he can easily fire back by also citing gameplay that easily trumps your own.

What 'canon'? That in appearances after this one he uses lightning based attacks that look nothing like and have nothing to do with this one? Yes, very compelling.[/B]

Originally posted by GrieverSquall

Got a feat for Lloyd yet?

You know, just because Link arguably cannot react to lightning doesn't mean he can't, say, headbutt Lloyd's head off. Or many other things. Cause Link is still leading in terms of feats.