Lloyd Irving vs Link

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Zant who proved unable to fight Link, despite abusing his teleport? And didn't land an attack of any sort in the cutscene? Dark Link who lost?

A 6 foot bullwhip is supersonic, a 40 foot super whip is certainly supersonic.
I'm not even sure I understand what you mean by point 3.

OoT Link has multiple instances of handling lightning, atleast one case of dealing with super sonic whips, and reliably reflects projectiles back at their sources. He is far above human reaction time.

Maybe if he dodges the very tip and not the whole body of the whip. But somethning would have to prove that cos whip dodging doesnt make you supersonic.
The cutscene is unquantifiable, phantom's is formed with energy. Hell it has parts of it even trail off mid flight. Neither have anythning to do with lightning speed, besides the affinity, to suggest it.

Ends up like this: solid, unquestionable showings of capped human for TP and peak+ for OoT. And none to feeble, questionable showings for your speed. Solid showings > feeble ones.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Two claps for him managing to beat them. Canon scene and a gameplay action demonstrates that the Link's reactions fail with those speeds. Cutscene >

Maybe if he dodges the very tip and not the whole body of the whip. But somethning would have to prove that cos whip dodging doesnt make you supersonic.
The cutscene is unquantifiable, phantom's is formed with energy. Hell it has parts of it even trail off mid flight. Neither have anythning to do with lightning speed, besides the affinity, to suggest it.

Ends up like this: solid, unquestionable showings of capped human for TP and peak+ for OoT. And none to feeble, questionable showings for your speed. Solid showings > feeble ones.

facepalm So, now dodging a super sonic attack doesn't = super sonic reaction time? Majora attacked with the tips of the whips, that's the only way it makes sense to do so, and he attacked very very fast, as well as moving quickly enough to leave after images.

So, being lightning doesn't suggest lightning speed when we know Ganon's lightning moves at lightning speed. I think you failed to explain the part where that theory requires Ganondorf to intentionally and purposefully slow the speed electricity moves through the air, thus, sabotaging himself. haermm

TP Link squashed Zant's teleporting self, I'm not sure what makes you believe his reactions are capped at human? 😐 That's a pretty good and solid showing.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'd like you to explain how Link apparently can't react to Zant when a large portion of the boss battle is doing exactly that. 😬

facepalm So, now dodging a super sonic attack doesn't = super sonic reaction time? Majora attacked with the tips of the whips, that's the only way it makes sense to do so, and he attacked very very fast, as well as moving quickly enough to leave after images.

So, being lightning doesn't suggest lightning speed when we know Ganon's lightning moves at lightning speed. I think you failed to explain the part where that theory requires Ganondorf to intentionally and purposefully slow the speed electricity moves through the air, thus, sabotaging himself. haermm

TP Link squashed Zant's teleporting self, I'm not sure what makes you believe his reactions are capped at human? 😐 That's a pretty good and solid showing.

The whip body doesn't move at that speed, the small coil gets to that speed which end up as a finger sized flick. Dodging a whip means avoiding the body not the tiny coil flick.

Being electric charged suggests whatever it likes. Again we see the three steps the energy balls take. The scene only proves that it has electricity in it, nothing else unless you can prove that lightning speed. And no, being made of electricity doesnt mean anything.

Teleport =/= speed. Plus he uses ports defensivly to get away not to attack with. The two scenes are why he's capped at human. What happened can't be refuted.

Cutscene, that's why.

The whip body doesn't move at that speed, the small coil gets to that speed which end up as a finger sized flick. Dodging a whip means avoiding the body not the tiny coil flick.

Being electric charged suggests whatever it likes. Again we see the three steps the energy balls take. The scene only proves that it has electricity in it, nothing else unless you can prove that lightning speed. And no, being made of electricity doesnt mean anything.

😬 How about you come up with a good reason for it to be slow other than it's projectile shape?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Because his first attack looked stronger and the second does not. Cutscenes? Lloyd moved to where he was going to attack(slowly moved) and then reacted to it by blocking. His reaction was fast. His movement from point A to point B, was not.

....why bother when he can just lift it and save himself time? It's obvious you're trying to say the gauntlets don't increase the strength of his sword swings. I have no reason to believe that. Trying to say they don't increase his sword strength by referencing the pillar is a silly argument.

How dare a game let the player do something!

Question: Who switches between his bow and his sword in the actual game?

So? The second lightning attack didn't looked as strong as the first one, it does NOT mean it's not strong though, it electrocuted and killed a character so far. Lloyd survived the first one by the way (nice feat). And Lloyd ran to cover that girl, I don't see the 'slow' part AT ALL. You said Link's movement or shit were faster than Lloyd's, right? Provide evidence for that claim.

Yeah, he can lift it and toss it, just as I can lift a chair and toss it, does not mean I will break said chair with a punch though.

Not if it's a cut-scene.

In a cut-scene? No one. In gameplay? The player.
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So, are you going to back up your claims...?

Yeah, he can lift it and toss it, just as I can lift a chair and toss it, does not mean I will break said chair with a punch though.

But yeah, by the time you're strong enough to throw over a hundred tons, you can crush rock with your hands.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The one in which nothing happened?
There's nothing tiny about the arc made by the tip of Majora's whip, kthnx, and they were coming at him very, very fast. Link reliably handled the attacking portion of the whip, tadah, above human.
mariofacepalm AROUND AND ROUND WE GO.
Me: Ganondorf has fullspeed lightning and would need to intentionally slow it down for that attack to not be full speed. That's tantamount to sabotaging himself.
You: It's slow in gameplay, prove it's faster.
Me: .... Repeat.
You: .... Repeat.

😬 How about you come up with a good reason for it to be slow other than it's projectile shape?

We dont even see the coil. Link evades the body, thats all. You can try to prove that he goes and avoids it at the very last second while its an inch away from his face to sate your claim but thinking about it.. it cant be done because all we know is that Link dodges the whole whip.

Please quote where I said anything about speed. And nice dodge, Im asking you to tell me how you know that is a lightning strike and not an electric charged orb.
Shape wasnt even the thing in question.. hearing what you want to hear. Ok then, how about that its the same attack he's used two other times that started off as an energy ball having nothing to do with lightning or electricity? Yeah, think that works nicely.

Please quote where I said anything about speed. And nice dodge, Im asking you to tell me how you know that is a lightning strike and not an electric charged orb.

Ok then, how about that its the same attack he's used two other times that started off as an energy ball having nothing to do with lightning or electricity? Yeah, think that works nicely.

Are you honestly going to argue it's slower than the non electrical orb Ganon used in a cutscene before he got his power, or that he's stupid enough to intentionally slow electricity down to sabotage himself? If not, then I don't even know what you are argueing because there's no argument to be had.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
So? The second lightning attack didn't looked as strong as the first one, it does NOT mean it's not strong though, it electrocuted and killed a character so far. Lloyd survived the first one by the way (nice feat). And Lloyd ran to cover that girl, I don't see the 'slow' part AT ALL. You said Link's movement or shit were faster than Lloyd's, right? Provide evidence for that claim.

It failed to kill that cute wittle fox thing immediately. And until I see some feats that make me think killing that thing is impressive, I'll just keep assuming that Link could just as easily kill it by cutting it in half. Lloyd was not hit by lightning when Volt first attacked them. So, point? Lloyd moves slower than a fox. Good to know. And why do I think Link is faster?

YouTube video

At around 1:13 we see Young Link run away.

YouTube video

At 2:12, we see Lloyd run as well. Not claiming to be a professional judge of animation or anything, but in my opinion it looks like Young Link is faster. And this is Young Link, not Adult Link, who we're actually using.

Unless you can prove Lloyd's faster, I side with Link as far as movement speed. Care to prove otherwise? Oh wait, I forgot, it's not fair if I ask you for proof. My bad. baka

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Yeah, he can lift it and toss it, just as I can lift a chair and toss it, does not mean I will break said chair with a punch though.

In a cut-scene? No one. In gameplay? The player.
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So, are you going to back up your claims...?

The difference between that and Link's situation is Link will be using a, you know, weapon. Lloyd has narry a strength feat to his name that suggests he could block an attack from Link. Even if that pillar were only a couple tons, it's still better than nothing. Which is exactly what you've given us about Lloyd's strength.

Who chooses to use Omnislash to kill Sephiroth at the end of FFVII?

I don't know. Are you? dur

Ganon's attack is able to paralyze one of the most resilient characters in the game. Ganondorf takes abuse throughout the entire series, stabs through the face, chest, shot with arrows, etc. He is a tough sob. For his attack to be strong enough to paralyze him, even momentarily, indicates that it is very strong. Stronger than anything I've seen by Volt.

You know GrieverSquall, I've never played either game. Just like you. So how come I'm burdened with the duty of giving proof and you're not? Is there something I'm not getting?

Edit: And Christ. Back to the whip argument. I stick with Occam's Razor on that one. Though it is a good feat. ScreamPaste, be a doll and bring us a video for that please.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Because the only thing which presents it as such is a gameplay mechanic which requires Link to deflect it. 😐 When we know Ganon has and uses full speed lightning and to intnetionally slow it down requires him to be suicidal.

The first attack was before he got the ToP and in now way electrical, and moves too fast for Nintendo to bother letting us see. The second one you reference isn't evne Ganondorf it's one of his creations, and Link reflects it, otherwise, meh. The third attack, is Ganondorf with the ToP, using lightning. It's even bolty and sparky. Link still reflects it.

Are you honestly going to argue it's slower than the non electrical orb Ganon used in a cutscene before he got his power, or that he's stupid enough to intentionally slow electricity down to sabotage himself? If not, then I don't even know what you are argueing because there's no argument to be had.

If OoT is the fist game with Ganondorf how can he use later games feats?

The cutscene has unquantifiable speed, said it several times now. Seriously, bad angles and poor placement. Cant get anything from it. Havnt answered how you know for sure that its a lightning strike and not charged like the first orb.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Edit: This ki blast shit has gotten old.

YouTube video

At 1:00, we can see Cole firing off lightning like he typically does.

At 3:41, we see him use the shock grenade which is slower to use.

Is Cole being intentionally stupid by using an attack that's slower? No. He's trading it off for one with enough power to clear the path. It's slower because Cole has to throw it instead of blasting it in a single path.

Now why can't this also be applied to Ganondorf?

🙂

Edit: And Christ. Back to the whip argument. I stick with Occam's Razor on that one. Though it is a good feat. ScreamPaste, be a doll and bring us a video for that please.

Edit: Check 3:10 for awesomeness.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Awh, you asked nicely. :3
YouTube video
Someone using every abuse in the game to beat Majora's Wrath, lol.

I know right? ****ing good mood and I don't know why.

I didn't watch the whole thing but I know the gist of the argument. He can dodge the very tip of the whip, which breaks the sound barrier correct?

This is another reason where for better or worse, I call the developers thoughts to question. What are the chances that they know the speed of the tip of the whip?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I know right? ****ing good mood and I don't know why.

I didn't watch the whole thing but I know the gist of the argument. He can dodge the very tip of the whip, which breaks the sound barrier correct?

This is another reason where for better or worse, I call the developers thoughts to question. What are the chances that they know the speed of the tip of the whip?

Demonstrated at 1:15 by whip world record holder, Adam Winrich:
YouTube video

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Curiously, this is a pretty commonly known fact, and if you skip to 3:10, they even have Majora use a specific whip technique known as the volley.

Demonstrated at 1:15 by whip world record holder, Adam Winrich:
YouTube video

Two things:

That dude is cool. Dude should be in Castlevania.

And I'm not quite sold on the volley thing. It looked to me as if Majora was just backing up while spinning and delivering attacks. Looks different to me.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Two things:

That dude is cool. Dude should be in Castlevania.

And I'm not quite sold on the volley thing. It looked to me as if Majora was just backing up while spinning and delivering attacks. Looks different to me.

Ah, I see it now. Only problem is the player is blocking the whole time.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Adam can crack a whip, with two whips much like Majora has, 420 times per minute, think Majora can outdo him? mmm

**** no. He can't top that dude's awesome hat.

YouTube video
This video is just plain ****ing awesome.

Editted for failure.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It could give us a strength feat for Lloyd. It doesn't. That lightning is unimpressive and by extension so is Lloyd, who was knocked on his ass before Volt was struck by CIS.

I like how Scream's logic is instantly applied to mine. Lloyd can react to things quickly. Lightning speed quickly. Does not make him run as fast as lightning or attack at lightning speeds.

Volt caught them off guard. And Volt demolished a whole village full of trained ninja and summoners. Volt isn't weak by any means. None of the summon spirits are.

I never said it was your logic. Nor did I say he could run as fast as lightning. I was simply mentioning that the video was brought up to counter Links supposed "lightning timing". That's all. It was never meant to show anything else.

And are we still going on about the lighting ball? It isn't lightning, and it isn't moving as fast as lightning. We've established that quite nicely.

And are we still going on about the lighting ball? It isn't lightning, and it isn't moving as fast as lightning. We've established that quite nicely.

Oh, and that you'll cite gameplay speed ad nauseum and claim ridiculous theories with no canon indication of their implementation are simpler than "lightning = lightning". uhuh

So, feats for Lloyd?