Lloyd Irving vs Link

Originally posted by TacDavey
Volt caught them off guard. And Volt demolished a whole village full of trained ninja and summoners. Volt isn't weak by any means. None of the summon spirits are.

I never said it was your logic. Nor did I say he could run as fast as lightning. I was simply mentioning that the video was brought up to counter Links supposed "lightning timing". That's all. It was never meant to show anything else.

And are we still going on about the lighting ball? It isn't lightning, and it isn't moving as fast as lightning. We've established that quite nicely.

Catching your enemies off guard with a powerful attack is not the same as not using the attack again. And really? Show me Volt doing this. Hot dog, now we're getting somewhere.

Then it shows what it is meant to. Lightning reactions alone though will not win this for him. For better or worse, we need more.

I dunno. I've said my peace. And actually, it is lightning in a sense. Just not lightning speed.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Awh, you asked nicely. :3
YouTube video
Someone using every abuse in the game to beat Majora's Wrath, lol.

Edit: Check 3:10 for awesomeness.

I'm sorry, but where does Link dodge a whip in that video. 😬

Also lol @ you not even knowing how a whip works.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It failed to kill that cute wittle fox thing immediately. And until I see some feats that make me think killing that thing is impressive, I'll just keep assuming that Link could just as easily kill it by cutting it in half. Lloyd was not hit by lightning when Volt first attacked them. So, point? Lloyd moves slower than a fox. Good to know. And why do I think Link is faster? At around 1:13 we see Young Link run away. At 2:12, we see Lloyd run as well. Not claiming to be a professional judge of animation or anything, but in my opinion it looks like Young Link is faster. And this is Young Link, not Adult Link, who we're actually using.Unless you can prove Lloyd's faster, I side with Link as far as movement speed. Care to prove otherwise? Oh wait, I forgot, it's not fair if I ask you for proof. My bad.

Oh, it didn't kill it immediately? So WHAT? It DID KILL it. It isn't impressive that killed THAT character, that is not even the point, it is impressive that KILLED it. The girl was about to likely get the same fate if Lloyd wouldn't have intervened. As for Lloyd, it did nothing to him. Effortlessly parrying a shot of straight lightning bolt that electrocuted when in contact another character, is a good display of strength, if you ask me. So Volt intentionally used several lightning attacks to actually hit the characters, but the lightning attacks didn't hit them? And come on, you can't be serious about that video, we just see Link running on a bridge, what is so impressive? Same for Lloyd, he just ran to get in the middle of an attack. None shows super-speed at all, mate. As far as fights goes Lloyd shows to be super-fast and agile.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The difference between that and Link's situation is Link will be using a, you know, weapon. Lloyd has narry a strength feat to his name that suggests he could block an attack from Link. Even if that pillar were only a couple tons, it's still better than nothing. Which is exactly what you've given us about Lloyd's strength.

Ganon's attack is able to paralyze one of the most resilient characters in the game. Ganondorf takes abuse throughout the entire series, stabs through the face, chest, shot with arrows, etc. He is a tough sob. For his attack to be strong enough to paralyze him, even momentarily, indicates that it is very strong. Stronger than anything I've seen by Volt.

Yeah, except Link lifted it, he never slashed that stone pillar with his sword, nor rocks with his swords. Lloyd cut through lightning and that is also better than nothing. Ask Tac, he can probably provide you with more Lloyd's feats.

It paralyzes him because that is his weak point. There a lot of bosses in other games whom are actually weak against their own attacks. But the magic balls themselves have any destructive feats other than paralyzing or stunning his own caster for a few seconds? Volt's lightning is capable of blowing away several characters at once with ease and can electrocute them when in contact. And he's not even the last boss of the game.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You know GrieverSquall, I've never played either game. Just like you. So how come I'm burdened with the duty of giving proof and you're not?

'Cause as far as I can see, you were the only one saying: 'Ganon's magic is stronger than Volt's', 'Link can do this and that', 'Link can run faster', 'Link is stronger than Lloyd'. Those are YOUR claims. I didn't claim ANYTHING. That's a Burden of proof fallacy, TheAuraAngel. I don't have to provide evidence for YOUR claims.

My post was ignored for this? Yeesh. Neph's right, there's no scripted event where he dodges it nor any indication that he does at the very tip.

Time to bury this:
YouTube video
1:40-2:30. Clearest part from 2:27. See the tiny coil at that time? Thats where the speed is, in literally the last inch of the whip. He avoids the whole thing not the tiny coil..

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You've established nothing short of your own inability to supply feats for Lloyd, like say some to prove his strength or durability. 😐

Oh, and that you'll cite gameplay speed ad nauseum and claim ridiculous theories with no canon indication of their implementation are simpler than "lightning = lightning". uhuh

So, feats for Lloyd?

Don't repeat yourself, that is useless, you arguments have been refuted. And now let's put an end to your ridiculous theory.

That thing Link reflects with his sword are nothing more than energy balls. According to Zeldapedia, that is called 'Dead Man's Volley', and Link have been doing that in past games and newer games as well, it isn't lightning nor it moves at super-speed, they are energy balls. End of story.

1T_Ec4s2WR8&

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Who chooses to use Omnislash to kill Sephiroth at the end of FFVII?

Forgot to respond to this.

Cloud because it is scripted in the story-line. And if you do nothing, Cloud uses Omnislash automatically to kill Sephiroth.

Now prove Link can carry swords, arrows, shields and other items inside his pocket or whatever and prove he can switch them whenever he wants. Or drop the point, as for now I didn't get a response from your part.

Haha ohwow!

I can't believe he is still trying to use that whip attack as a legitimate speed feat. It's actually a useless feat because the drawback of such a large whip is large enough for you to easily dodge by anticipation.

Which if you are going to use that may as well use the awesome durability feat of Link falling off a horse and getting knocked out. Which also shows his general awareness, so even if he could move at sonic speeds he would probably knock himself out.

Gauntlets are magical, don't need to do anything but be magical.

Aaannnddd: Tombi was awesome, I played both, remember rescueing Red Baron stuck on the house. Such good games, only finished the first one though.

I am going for Lord Irving because it isn't link.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Oh, it didn't kill it immediately? So WHAT? It DID KILL it. It isn't impressive that killed THAT character, that is not even the point, it is impressive that KILLED it. The girl was about to likely get the same fate if Lloyd wouldn't have intervened. As for Lloyd, it did nothing to him. Effortlessly parrying a shot of straight lightning bolt that electrocuted when in contact another character, is a good display of strength, if you ask me. So Volt intentionally used several lightning attacks to actually hit the characters, but the lightning attacks didn't hit them? And come on, you can't be serious about that video, we just see Link running on a bridge, what is so impressive? Same for Lloyd, he just ran to get in the middle of an attack. None shows super-speed at all, mate. As far as fights goes Lloyd shows to be super-fast and agile.

I liken myself unto a dog. I do the tricks my trainer asks me to do and in return all I ask for is acknowledgement. Instead I get inferior logic and a bunch of noise that makes me want to bark at everyone I see and then piss on them.

I'm sorry, where was I? Oh yeah. Prove that Volt killing that fox thing was impressive and that I should care. And actually Volt hit them with some kind of energy wave and sent them flying. And you asked me to show you why I think Link's movement speed is better and I did by using two cutscenes. I never claimed either could move at super quick speeds did I?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Yeah, except Link lifted it, he never slashed that stone pillar with his sword, nor rocks with his swords. Lloyd cut through lightning and that is also better than nothing. Ask Tac, he can probably provide you with more Lloyd's feats.

Oh yeah I forgot. We can't apply Link's increased strength from the guantlets in battle because he never tried to cut the **** out of a sword. Myyyyyy Baddddd. awesome

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
It paralyzes him because that is his weak point. There a lot of bosses in other games whom are actually weak against their own attacks. But the magic balls themselves have any destructive feats other than paralyzing or stunning his own caster for a few seconds? Volt's lightning is capable of blowing away several characters at once with ease and can electrocute them when in contact. And he's not even the last boss of the game.

His weak point is allegedly those arrows and that sword. And why would it need any other feats when the one it has is better than Volt's? Just because you have to do it to beat the boss doesn't make the attack weak.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
'Cause as far as I can see, you were the only one saying: 'Ganon's magic is stronger than Volt's', 'Link can do this and that', 'Link can run faster', 'Link is stronger than Lloyd'. Those are YOUR claims. I didn't claim ANYTHING. That's a Burden of proof fallacy, TheAuraAngel. I don't have to provide evidence for YOUR claims.

Prove to me the Lloyd can block an attack from Link. Otherwise this thread has no point. I have supported all my claims with at least something and you try to refute them with piss poor logic. I'm reminded of something a wise man once said. How you need heavy shoes to throw heavy things.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Forgot to respond to this.

Cloud because it is scripted in the story-line. And if you do nothing, Cloud uses Omnislash automatically to kill Sephiroth.

Now prove Link can carry swords, arrows, shields and other items inside his pocket or whatever and prove he can switch them whenever he wants. Or drop the point, as for now I didn't get a response from your part.

Who chooses to travel around the Pokemon world and defeat Team Rocket and challenge the Pokemon Gyms and ultimately the Elite 4?

lol I'm an idiot.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You've established nothing short of your own inability to supply feats for Lloyd, like say some to prove his strength or durability. 😐

Oh, and that you'll cite gameplay speed ad nauseum and claim ridiculous theories with no canon indication of their implementation are simpler than "lightning = lightning". uhuh

So, feats for Lloyd?

Call my argument names all you want. It won't change anything. Don't get mad just because you can't respond to it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Catching your enemies off guard with a powerful attack is not the same as not using the attack again. And really? Show me Volt doing this. Hot dog, now we're getting somewhere.

Then it shows what it is meant to. Lightning reactions alone though will not win this for him. For better or worse, we need more.

I dunno. I've said my peace. And actually, it is lightning in a sense. Just not lightning speed.

You don't see him do it, you hear about it. That one girl in the video Lloyd saves. She failed at forming a pack with the summon spirit a while ago and as a result it got pissed and wiped out over half of her village. Which is a village full of ninja like her.

I provided some earlier, but they got swallowed up in the lightning ball debate. For one, Lloyd is known to be physically superior to humans thanks to his Ex-sphere. He jumped off a cliff no problem, and another character even commented about how that fall should have killed a normal person. And that was at he beginning of the game. Not to mention he defeated Kratos on his own, who is basically the second strongest character in that universe.

Don't get mad just because you can't respond to it.

He jumped off a cliff no problem,

Don't repeat yourself, that is useless, you arguments have been refuted.

Tbh, the entire debate for Lloyd is "DENY LINK'S FEATS." Which you've failed to do. So, meh. I WILL TRIUMPH OVER THIS ENDLESS SEA OF BIAS.

Originally posted by BloodRain
My post was ignored for this? Yeesh. Neph's right, there's no scripted event where he dodges it nor any indication that he does at the very tip.

Time to bury this:
YouTube video
1:40-2:30. Clearest part from 2:27. See the tiny coil at that time? Thats where the speed is, in literally the last inch of the whip. He avoids the whole thing not the tiny coil..

I'm sorry, but where does Link dodge a whip in that video

Oh, and to address the issue of Link carrying things, he's been able to do so since 1986.

Oh cool, a 2-3 foot whip, imagine it on a grand scale, and at the speeds Majora was using them.

Look dumby, if you knew a single thing about how a whip worked you'd know that being longer would make the whip slower, not faster. The way a whip works is that the handle moves first and then the rest of the whip has to overcompensate and catch up to it at higher speeds then the swing of the handle. Being longer and thicker makes this process take alot more time, as it would take a longer time for the ripple from the handle to reach the end and cause it to move and then take longer to move itself.

And this is where you suggest that Majora aimed for his shield?

No, obviously he aimed for the thing behind his shield. I assume that his whip can act as if shields aren't even there, right. 😬

Where the hell else is he aiming, Link mum?

And its still the very tip of the whip. Only way for that it to be a supersonic dodge would be for that coil to be about 6ft long 😐 and fyi if we just go and scale it with by length then it would still only get to 20cm. So yeah, got a scene where Link avoids at the very last second with it right in his face? Yeah, cos thats what you need here.

O_o 4 posts? Geebas man, edit together.

And btw its not mindless downplaying of a feat, its regulating an over-hyped feat. Depending on who you ask.

Oh and you havnt answered yet.

No, obviously he aimed for the thing behind his shield. I assume that his whip can act as if shields aren't even there, right.

And its still the very tip of the whip. Only way for that it to be a supersonic dodge would be for that coil to be about 6ft long and fyi if we just go and scale it with by length then it would still only get to 20cm. So yeah, got a scene where Link avoids at the very last second with it right in his face? Yeah, cos thats what you need here.

And btw its not mindless downplaying of a feat, its regulating an over-hyped feat. Depending on who you ask.

Oh and you havnt answered yet.

Smells like mindless downplaying to me. 😬

Its also pretty cool how you assume he evades at the very last moment for no reason other then to give him a feat. Cant dodge a whip before it cracks?.. So I guess the person cant see the attacker move his arms, or see the whip body coming towards him? Im assuming this person is blind..

Only ones important that really get discussed are the lightning, pillar and whip feats; all the fan-made stats.. coincidentally all of yours. The only pattern is that fan figures get debated which is a common thing. [Those last three arent even feats]

So... you know that the attack is a lightning strike and not a charged orb and must move at lightning speed because __________?

Its also pretty cool how you assume he evades at the very last moment for no reason other then to give him a feat. Cant dodge a whip before it cracks?.. So I guess the person cant see the attacker move his arms, or see the whip body coming towards him?

Only ones important that really get discussed are the lightning, pillar and whip feats; all the fan-made stats.. coincidentally all of yours. The only pattern is that fan figures get debated which is a common thing. [Those last three arent even feats]

you know that the attack is a lightning strike and not a charged orb and must move at lightning speed because __________?

HERE WE GO AGAIN!

Because full speed lightning is consistently in Ganon's power set and it makes no sense for him to intentionally slow the speed electricity travels through the air as that would do nothing other than screw him.

I need a freakin' drink. It'll make this thread more fun.

"IT'S AN ORB. GOHT'S IS SLOW. BARINADE... IS AN ANENAMONE! MAJORA CAN'T CRACK A WHIP, OCCAM'S RAZOR ---> INCREDIBLY CONVOLUTED THEORY. LINK CAN'T REALISTICLY CARRY HIS STUFF. LINK CAN'T PUSH BLOCKS OR MOVE HIS SHIELD."