Lloyd Irving vs Link

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
How do you know an slash from Link would have done the same? So because it hasn't been proven that Corrine is some super powerful character it means she's weak? That's an argument from ignorance fallacy. And for the record: THAT'S NOT T3H POINT. The attack isn't strong because it killed THAT character, it's strong due of what it DID and for what Volt is capable of. As for Lloyd, he deflected the attacks as if they were nothing, that IS the feat. And the lightnings bolts created a shockwave that blew away the characters? That further proves how strong Lloyd is. Because the lightning bolts that Volt released at first were more, but they were the same ones Lloyd deflected twice afterwards, with the exception that they were straight shots and they were charged up. Face it, Lloyd has pretty good feats. Link hardly. And I never hinted anything, so if your vidz weren't mean 2 prove anything then u shouldnt have posted them.

Why yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. His arms have shown to be strong, his arms swing his sword, and until proven otherwise I will continue to assume that he can easily make mince meat out of Corrine. And what did the attack do besides kill THAT character that I know nothing about because my opposition is so piss poor that it can't throw me a bone? Several lightning bolts> one. And no, not really. Since he was, as mentioned, knocked on his ass. Lloyd's feats are getting better but he lacks: 1. Strength. 2. Durability. 3. Intellect. Those are feats I want from him. Speed he has covered, as well as reaction time. And you said super speed first and you wanted to know what I meant when I said I thought Link moved faster. So I used cutscenes, which are limited for me since I have played neither game.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Link's arms. They don't enhance more than that. And my analogy explained your argument: 'he can but he never tried', instead of proving if he is actually capable of. I can lift a pile of bricks no problem, but I can break no one bare handed. The strength you put in both is not the same. That's why you need to prove how strong are Link's slashes or for instance his striking force. For example, Lloyd can slash through lightning no prob. The only think Link has over Lloyd is lifting strength, which is awesome, but not enough.

Lloyd has blocked lightning. Slashed through it he has not. And I like how you dropped the monster truck argument once you realized how ridiculously stupid you sounded. As for the bricks, yes, I'm sure you can't break through them with your hands. Now, say you have the strength to launch the bricks all the way into the next town. I'd say you'd have a pretty good shot at it. Not that it matters. No one is saying Link is gonna punch Lloyd to death, though he certainly can if you prefer. The golden gauntlets strengthen his arms, correct. Actually there could be a case that they strength all of his body but we'll leave that alone. How does the basic function of swinging a sword work? What determines the amount of force is behind a sword swing?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What does being durable has to do with being stunned by a slow magic ball? He apparently had no protection against his own spell, too bad. It's just stuns HIM for a few seconds, nothing more. That's not more powerful than Volt's lightning AT ALL. As for environments not being damaged by attacks nor showing permanent damage to, let's say, a floor... it's a videogame for God's sake, it does not have to be 100% realistic. Besides, according to Tac Volt crushed a village full of warriors. And by destructive, I never meant to say that the place suffered damage due the lightnings, although they do send powerful shockwaves. On the other hand those balls do nothing but float through air. Your attempt to make Volt's lightning look weak by saying 'there's no damage in the enviroment' is totally meaningless. It is actually one of the worst arguments I heard so far.

What can I say? You fight a shitty argument with an even shittier argument in my book. Ganon has displayed the ability to have a castle fall on top of him many times following by brushing it off like it never happened. An attack that can stun him is in fact, stronger than Volts. It's never specified exactly how Volt did that. Did he do it by surprise? Are ninja's incredibly weak? Again, to answer these questions, feats must be provided and they have not. I am perfectly willing to listen to Tac because he is being very good with giving me feats. You on the other hand....I don't exactly know why you're here. You've never played either game and unlike me, you aren't being a mediator to try and sort out things. What is your purpose again?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Just like Kratos beating Chronos. I agree. Those are situations destined to happen, otherwise the story can't continue. That's considered canon because the player has no choice but do it. But my point was that we cannot use gameplay fights to prove EVERYTHING. A such I cannot use a spell from Final Fantasy to prove it would hurt Link. We can draw some stuff from gameplay, but not everyhting, less when it is inconsistent story-wise. Now, what Link can do in cut-scenes? No one is using gameplay to prove Lloyd is strong. But as for now I haven't heard a Link feat outside wanked gameplay fights.

Link cannot beat Ganondorf without switching weapons. So therefore he does. So therefore he shows the ability to switch weapons on the fly and come up with quick strategies. That was the entire reason this little tidbit of our argument has lasted this long. Link has thrown a pillar in a cutscene, giving him a far better strength feat than Lloyd. As for other cutscenes, well, I'm not sure. Never played OoT, but since I'm getting a 3DS, I may in the near future.

In short: You serve no purpose here. Now please leave before I actually start taking you seriously.

I haven't heard a Link feat outside wanked gameplay fights.

Actually there could be a case that they strength all of his body but we'll leave that alone.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link's got super human reaction time, super strength in the class 100+ range, and durability also in that range, you still need to prove Lloyd can harm him. 😬

Link isn't a lightning timer. You are literally the only person who still supports this idea. It's been refuted time and time again. It's time to let it go and move on.

Super Strength I give you.

Durability I don't. If you are going off the scene of his sword getting knocked out of his hand I've responded to that.

Right now, Link only has super strength going for him. That, and maybe weapons, but we haven't much talked about that.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yes, that is exactly what I wanted. I can comfortably say that Lloyd is faster than Link. Not that that gives him the win of course but it gives him more than he had before.

If we assume Link is not a lightning timer, like I do, then Lloyd moves and reacts more quickly than Link. He still does not take the win of course, mostly due to the variety of items Link has and his at the moment superior strength.

We should talk about Link's items. The sole fact that he has a bunch of items doesn't give him the edge.

Nayru's Love and Din's Fire would be useful, though both require a charge up time.

Farores Wind is useless.

The Megaton Hammer I don't see being too useful.

Arrows would be useful, though Lloyd does fight enemies that use crossbows which don't require you to load the thing or draw back the arrow before firing. And he fights more than one at a time.

I don't see the hookshot being very useful.

Golden Gauntlets we've talked about

Magic Lens wouldn't do anything

Deku Nuts would have their uses. Though sticks nor slingshot would.

Bombs take a while to explode, so they aren't very useful in combat.

Mmmm... What else does he have?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
What can I say? You fight a shitty argument with an even shittier argument in my book. Ganon has displayed the ability to have a castle fall on top of him many times following by brushing it off like it never happened. An attack that can stun him is in fact, stronger than Volts. It's never specified exactly how Volt did that. Did he do it by surprise? Are ninja's incredibly weak? Again, to answer these questions, feats must be provided and they have not. I am perfectly willing to listen to Tac because he is being very good with giving me feats. You on the other hand....I don't exactly know why you're here. You've never played either game and unlike me, you aren't being a mediator to try and sort out things. What is your purpose again?

It never specified exactly how he did it, only that he did it.

Originally posted by TacDavey
We should talk about Link's items. The sole fact that he has a bunch of items doesn't give him the edge.

Nayru's Love and Din's Fire would be useful, though both require a charge up time.

Farores Wind is useless.

The Megaton Hammer I don't see being too useful.

Arrows would be useful, though Lloyd does fight enemies that use crossbows which don't require you to load the thing or draw back the arrow before firing. And he fights more than one at a time.

I don't see the hookshot being very useful.

Golden Gauntlets we've talked about

Magic Lens wouldn't do anything

Deku Nuts would have their uses. Though sticks nor slingshot would.

Bombs take a while to explode, so they aren't very useful in combat.

Mmmm... What else does he have?

It never specified exactly how he did it, only that he did it.

Well before we get started on the use of the items, some of which I agree would be useless, we need to decide on a location for our heroes to do battle. You're the OP so I suppose it's your decision. Try and pick a place that is fair to both combatants if you please.

And since it is never specified, we really can't throw it up. If he nuked them, that's a nice feat for Volt. But this thread isn't about him so stuff.

Don't lie Tac. Lying isn't cool.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Why yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. His arms have shown to be strong, his arms swing his sword, and until proven otherwise I will continue to assume that he can easily make mince meat out of Corrine. And what did the attack do besides kill THAT character that I know nothing about because my opposition is so piss poor that it can't throw me a bone? Several lightning bolts> one. And no, not really. Since he was, as mentioned, knocked on his ass. Lloyd's feats are getting better but he lacks: 1. Strength. 2. Durability. 3. Intellect. Those are feats I want from him. Speed he has covered, as well as reaction time. And you said super speed first and you wanted to know what I meant when I said I thought Link moved faster. So I used cutscenes, which are limited for me since I have played neither game.

You are assuming Corrine is weak because it hasn't been proven otherwise! laughing That's an argument from ignorance fallacy. Start to reconsider, because that line of reasoning won't serve to support you, and I never said the feat was killing Corrine anyway, nor I said she was super-powerful. Not that it matters anyway. The feat is effortlessly parrying something that electrocuted and killed someone else, and taking into account Volt's power. That's feat. Several lightning bolts > one? Re-read what I wrote please. /facepalm. Parrying fatal lightning bolts no prob is a good display of strength. Durability the same. Tac posted other feats for him too. Intellect? Nah. Being stupid isn't bad, you can still beat someone who think is smart! ^^

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Lloyd has blocked lightning. Slashed through it he has not. And I like how you dropped the monster truck argument once you realized how ridiculously stupid you sounded. As for the bricks, yes, I'm sure you can't break through them with your hands. Now, say you have the strength to launch the bricks all the way into the next town. I'd say you'd have a pretty good shot at it. Not that it matters. No one is saying Link is gonna punch Lloyd to death, though he certainly can if you prefer. The golden gauntlets strengthen his arms, correct. Actually there could be a case that they strength all of his body but we'll leave that alone. How does the basic function of swinging a sword work? What determines the amount of force is behind a sword swing?

What can I say? You fight a shitty argument with an even shittier argument in my book. Ganon has displayed the ability to have a castle fall on top of him many times following by brushing it off like it never happened. An attack that can stun him is in fact, stronger than Volts. It's never specified exactly how Volt did that. Did he do it by surprise? Are ninja's incredibly weak? Again, to answer these questions, feats must be provided and they have not. I am perfectly willing to listen to Tac because he is being very good with giving me feats. You on the other hand....I don't exactly know why you're here. You've never played either game and unlike me, you aren't being a mediator to try and sort out things. What is your purpose again?

I didn't said he did, I say he can. If he was fast and strong enough to parry strong charged up lightning bolts with no effort single handed, I don't see why he wouldn't simply slash it. I can lift and toss way more heavier things than a little marble ball, however I cannot simply crush the ball with my hands and making it dust. You don't apply the same strength to lift something than to hit something. A guy can be strong enough to break many bricks at once with a punch, but he probably can't lift a car. And yes, as stated they only enhances his arms. His legs don't broke because the gauntlets are the ones supporting t3h weight, dat ish da powah of da gauntlets. Striking Force, give me a feat of that nature and we can possibly continue further. Or simply drop the point about Link cutting through rocks. The 'he can but he never tried argument' is useless, also your insults, as they does not prove anything.

Can those balls destroy a castle? Don't think so. So in conclusion, stunning no other than its own caster for a few seconds, slowly floating through air, as well as being reflected by sword swings and being blocked by shields... nothing? Those energy balls aren't more powerful than Volt's lightning, I'm afraid. How Volt destroyed a village? With lightning maybe? 'He did by surprise'? He DID obliterate a village. 'Are ninjas terribly weak? I don't know, why? They should? Or are you going to assume they are because there is no evidence to support the contrary? Seriously, you are grasping at straws. And it was originally my idea to create this thread, I made Tac to do it since he played both games and he agreed with me. I'm defending a valid Lloyd's lightning feat and dunno, just posting on a forums...? dontgetit

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Link cannot beat Ganondorf without switching weapons. So therefore he does. So therefore he shows the ability to switch weapons on the fly and come up with quick strategies. That was the entire reason this little tidbit of our argument has lasted this long. Link has thrown a pillar in a cutscene, giving him a far better strength feat than Lloyd. As for other cutscenes, well, I'm not sure. Never played OoT, but since I'm getting a 3DS, I may in the near future.

In short: You serve no purpose here. Now please leave before I actually start taking you seriously.

Reflecting those balls is optional, so by your logic he doesn't. And he only has to use the bow to stun him and then the sword, you don't need more than that. Scream already proved you wrong with an art btw. But whatever, since I have proved you cannot use gameplay to prove everything and Tac want to use some items for Link, let's drop the point. And yup, Link has a good lifting strength feat, did I ever denied dat?

Reflecting those balls is optional, so by your logic he doesn't.

And he only has to use the bow to stun him and then the sword, you don't need more than that.

Scream already proved you wrong with an art btw.

But whatever, since I have proved you cannot use gameplay to prove everything and Tac want to use some items for Link, let's drop the point.

And yup, Link has a good lifting strength feat, did I ever denied dat?

Those energy balls aren't more powerful than Volt's lightning, I'm afraid.

Parrying fatal lightning bolts no prob is a good display of strength.

Link isn't a lightning timer. You are literally the only person who still supports this idea. It's been refuted time and time again. It's time to let it go and move on.

Durability I don't. If you are going off the scene of his sword getting knocked out of his hand I've responded to that.

No one's refuted it, only disagreed. Disagreement is not a refutation, OoT Link has fought atleast three enemies with lightning attacks and beaten them all.

So has Spiderman. Beating someone doesn't mean you're faster than everything they can throw at you. Doesn't prove shit. 😬

And for your information, we have refuted it, countless times.

So you saw the feat and just don't want to use it? That's not a valid response, disprove the durability he displayed in that scene or gtfo.

No, you have failed to prove it. Either do that or drop it.

You're still here? You contribute nil to this thread so it's not like it makes a difference whether you're here or not but even still I would think you could be wasting your time doing something else. Here, you're not really helping anyone. If you really want to stay, it's your privilege, but don't expect anyone to actually pay much attention to you. Except me of course, since I'm just that nice.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You are assuming Corrine is weak because it hasn't been proven otherwise! laughing That's an argument from ignorance fallacy. Start to reconsider, because that line of reasoning won't serve to support you, and I never said the feat was killing Corrine anyway, nor I said she was super-powerful. Not that it matters anyway. The feat is effortlessly parrying something that electrocuted and killed someone else, and taking into account Volt's power. That's feat. Several lightning bolts > one? Re-read what I wrote please. /facepalm. Parrying fatal lightning bolts no prob is a good display of strength. Durability the same. Tac posted other feats for him too. Intellect? Nah. Being stupid isn't bad, you can still beat someone who think is smart! ^^

Indeed you did. You said....Screw it, I'm gonna just start quoting you now.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
That's a good feat for Lloyd. That is actually a straight shot of lightning and Lloyd successfully blocked it. That's impressive because the previous character was shoot by the same lightning and couldn't do anything about it. Hell, it was killed/defeated by it.

You used the fact that is killed Corrine as proof that the lightning is strong, even though we have no clue how durable Corrine is. And yes, Several bolts of lightning>1 since we see those several emit an energy wave capable of knocking several characters back. No, it's not a durability feat since he blocked it. It's not a strength feat because he did nothing that was really strong. And yes, stupid characters can beat smart ones, but it doesn't change the fact that Link's intelligence is to his advantage.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I didn't said he did, I say he can. If he was fast and strong enough to parry strong charged up lightning bolts with no effort single handed, I don't see why he wouldn't simply slash it. I can lift and toss way more heavier things than a little marble ball, however I cannot simply crush the ball with my hands and making it dust. You don't apply the same strength to lift something than to hit something. A guy can be strong enough to break many bricks at once with a punch, but he probably can't lift a car. And yes, as stated they only enhances his arms. His legs don't broke because the gauntlets are the ones supporting t3h weight, dat ish da powah of da gauntlets. Striking Force, give me a feat of that nature and we can possibly continue further. Or simply drop the point about Link cutting through rocks. The 'he can but he never tried argument' is useless, also your insults, as they does not prove anything.

Isn't that similar to the He can but he never tried argument that you're trying to discredit me with? If a character can throw something that ways several tons, then yes his arms would be quite powerful. You know how you crush a marble? With your hands, which is fact are different from your arms. Striking force you don't need any feats, just a teeny tiny bit of logic. If Link can lift and toss something that weighs several tons with his arms, how damaging would a sword strike be from him? Gauntlets increase his arm strength, his sword strikes are based around arm strength. Put 2 and 2 together my good man.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Can those balls destroy a castle? Don't think so. So in conclusion, stunning no other than its own caster for a few seconds, slowly floating through air, as well as being reflected by sword swings and being blocked by shields... nothing? Those energy balls aren't more powerful than Volt's lightning, I'm afraid. How Volt destroyed a village? With lightning maybe? 'He did by surprise'? He DID obliterate a village. 'Are ninjas terribly weak? I don't know, why? They should? Or are you going to assume they are because there is no evidence to support the contrary? Seriously, you are grasping at straws. And it was originally my idea to create this thread, I made Tac to do it since he played both games and he agreed with me. I'm defending a valid Lloyd's lightning feat and dunno, just posting on a forums...? dontgetit

Have you ever seen anything that indicates otherwise? You arrogantly assume that the lightning is weak because it has not done anything except stun Ganondorf. And despite my attempts to actually prove why that is impressive, you ignorantly ignore it because it hasn't done anything else. My ignorance is at least justified because you refuse, no, you Can't can't give me something to make me not ignorant. I've at the least, given you several reasons the LLLC would despite my obvious lack of knowledge of Zelda. And until you can prove how he destroyed that village, something even Tac admits is impossible since it's not shown, then I don't care. So drop the ninja village stuff. You asked Tac to create this thread? Why? What gain do you get? Did you honestly just want to fight over the lightning feat? I have half a mind to troll you right now. Tac at the very least seems interested in the thread rather than discrediting Link.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Reflecting those balls is optional, so by your logic he doesn't. And he only has to use the bow to stun him and then the sword, you don't need more than that. Scream already proved you wrong with an art btw. But whatever, since I have proved you cannot use gameplay to prove everything and Tac want to use some items for Link, let's drop the point. And yup, Link has a good lifting strength feat, did I ever denied dat?

It is? Kindly find a video to prove that. And that art proves me wrong how exactly? I am fully aware of Tac's intentions and will fully discuss the usefulness of Link's items when everything is in shape. And yes, Link has good arm strength feat. Glad you agree.

No, you have failed to prove it. Either do that or drop it.

So has Spiderman. Beating someone doesn't mean you're faster than everything they can throw at you. Doesn't prove shit.

Cutscene > You.

No, you foolish fool who is a fool, prove that the force of Ganon's strike would actually hurt a normal human as opposed to simply knocking the sword out of his hand. We've asked you to do that like 3 times already, and you still havn't.

Spiderman's precog has let him dodge lightning bolts before, I've seen scans of it.

Actually that isn't a dodge, thats just getting out of the way before the attack happens. It doesn't make Spiderman a freaking lightning timer.

No, you foolish fool who is a fool, prove that the force of Ganon's strike would actually hurt a normal human as opposed to simply knocking the sword out of his hand. We've asked you to do that like 3 times already, and you still havn't.

QUESTION: When you play baseball, or cricket, or hockey, or football, you're british, right? whatever sport it is you have played in the past, and you stop a ball with:
A stick/club/bat/leg
Do you not feel any force from the ball? It's the same godamn thing on a much grander scale. The difference being Ganon's a giant super strong ****er with swords as large as you who's proven stronger than Link with the GG's by disarming him, and the force of the blow would travel down Link's arm into his chest and reduce a normal human into a fine paste. Do you know how much force it takes to chuck a multi-hundred stone pillar at considerable speed? Imagine the lion's share of that travelling through Link. If the blade itself hit him, yes, he'd be ****ed because it wouldn't distribute force over such a wide area, but he still tanked a massive amount of force without damage.

Actually that isn't a dodge, thats just getting out of the way before the attack happens. It doesn't make Spiderman a freaking lightning timer.

I need to prove the laws of physics?

If you would be so kind.

QUESTION: When you play baseball, or cricket, or hockey, or football, you're british, right? whatever sport it is you have played in the past, and you stop a ball with:
A stick/club/bat/leg
Do you not feel any force from the ball?

I don't play sports. 😐

It's the same godamn thing on a much grander scale. The difference being Ganon's a giant super strong ****er with swords as large as you who's proven stronger than Link with the GG's by disarming him, and the force of the blow would travel down Link's arm into his chest and reduce a normal human into a fine paste. Do you know how much force it takes to chuck a multi-hundred stone pillar at considerable speed? Imagine the lion's share of that travelling through Link. If the blade itself hit him, yes, he'd be ****ed because it wouldn't distribute force over such a wide area, but he still tanked a massive amount of force without damage.

You of course need to verify that the force would in fact travel down his arm rather than simply bat the blade from his hand. From my understanding the blade would be knocked from his hand before any significant amount of force would affect him at all.

It lets Spiderman react in lightning time. 😛 Your example still failed.

No, it lets him react before the lightning. And your assertion is still complete bullshit. Beating someone who can use lightning does not make you a lightning timer anymore than beating someone with a gun makes you a bullet timer. It is complete lunacy to think otherwise.

Neph, have I already said about that guy who's bat was knocked out of his hands by a speeding van and was fine after? Feels like I said it but doesn't seem like its remembered for this feat. Funny that.

And dont mind me having a chuckle at mach 22 arrow speed.

while the impossibility of a mach 22 arrow is amusing...

The fact is that the force of a hit will travel down your arm and into your body if you're holding the object with any type of serious grip. I used to play baseball and just the force of hitting a thrown baseball was enough to acknowledge the transfer of kinetic energy. If the guy had the bat knocked out of his hands and didn't feel serious shockwaves through his arms then he wasn't holding it with much grip at all.

While its true that some of the force would go down your arm [depends on blah blah blah], the important thing is that the majority of it would go into the bat/sword sent flying. In other words Link could not of taken anything near Ganon's full strength in that instance.

You of course need to verify that the force would in fact travel down his arm rather than simply bat the blade from his hand. From my understanding the blade would be knocked from his hand before any significant amount of force would affect him at all.

No, it lets him react before the lightning. And your assertion is still complete bullshit. Beating someone who can use lightning does not make you a lightning timer anymore than beating someone with a gun makes you a bullet timer. It is complete lunacy to think otherwise.

While its true that some of the force would go down your arm [depends on blah blah blah], the important thing is that the majority of it would go into the bat/sword sent flying. In other words Link could not of taken anything near Ganon's full strength in that instance.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well before we get started on the use of the items, some of which I agree would be useless, we need to decide on a location for our heroes to do battle. You're the OP so I suppose it's your decision. Try and pick a place that is fair to both combatants if you please.

And since it is never specified, we really can't throw it up. If he nuked them, that's a nice feat for Volt. But this thread isn't about him so stuff.

A location... Hmmm... Hyrule field sounds fine to me. No other enemies, or people are present. Like those flying plant things or stalchild things. And it's nice and open with nothing to really get in the way.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Don't lie Tac. Lying isn't cool.

Wait... What did I lie about?

Originally posted by BloodRain
While its true that some of the force would go down your arm [depends on blah blah blah], the important thing is that the majority of it would go into the bat/sword sent flying. In other words Link could not of taken anything near Ganon's full strength in that instance.

Yup. I'm not saying Link felt NOTHING, but his hand would have lost grip well before he needed super human durability to survive it.

OMFG this thread has gone to comeplete and utter shit since I last posted...
I'm gonna try to keep it short since I'm at work, and I probably won't get to post again.

Link isn't a lightning timer, ME and everyone else in this thread has been over this. Gannon lightning attacks are lightning speed when he uses actual Lightning. The attack in OoT is of a different nature.

Striking force is dependant on arm strength.... I'd drop that point if I were you. Link's a power house. His body/legs are a factor because they support the wieght to. GG's just gave him the strenght to lift it. Also, I'm suprised no one mentioned what was behind the first pillar you throw.... That would multiply his durability by 2.

The whips do not make Link react at super sonic speeds. The others explained why.

Links weapons/ equipment do give him an edge, but he doesn't need anything, but the GG's as of right now, until Lloyd has some strength feats. For all I care Link rips his limbs of and skull f*cks him because he can.

and @ Moo. You can beat Dark Link by mindlessly swinging your sword, I did it my first playthrough, and many times after that. Maybe your just a nub 😛