Yup. I'm not saying Link felt NOTHING, but his hand would have lost grip well before he needed super human durability to survive it.Your lack of understanding of physics is showing.
In order to tear a sword from the hand of someone with Link's strength you need to put them under a LOT of force. 😐 The force needs to act on Link before before Link lets go, otherwise why is he letting go if there's not a pile of force acting on him?
If a megajoule van didnt do this guy any serious damage what does that say about the whole knocking swords away thing and how much damage you take?First, cite a van as a megajoule, second I'm unfamiliar with the instance you're referencing? Someone tried to stop a van with a bat? Wat? You realise a megajoule is an awful lot, yes? 😐
8 MJ = 200 mile range with heavy shells that can demolish buildings. haermm A van is not a megajoule, it's a kilojoule maybe? 2 kilojoules is an anti-tank round, IIRC, so that seems possible.
In other words, less than a millionth the force involved in what Link was defending against.
A 4 ton van moving 'bout 60 mph, at least what late night dazed mathin says. At most it may have hurt his wrist (did shake it once) but no serious damage.. thats like taking 100-500 joules from the van.
And a van at those speed can destroy a room or two. 10x that damage in the form of explosive force and yeah, it matches up.
You sure about that anti-tank? 'Cos it says the strongest recorded punch is 1000j /lost
Originally posted by BloodRainI'm so confused by those numbers, but have remedied the problem of random guestimations with two things.
A 4 ton van moving 'bout 60 mph, at least what late night dazed mathin says. At most it may have hurt his wrist (did shake it once) but no serious damage.. thats like taking 100-500 joules from the van.And a van at those speed can destroy a room or two. 10x that damage in the form of explosive force and yeah, it matches up.
You sure about that anti-tank? 'Cos it says the strongest recorded punch is 1000j /lost
Lets use an easier to relate to sort of force. Pounds. You feel significantly more than a pound of resistance when you hit a baseball. But how about when you bunt? This isn't really a good comparison because the way Link held the sword was a direct block, not a bunt, but the force applied to the blade is similar in theory.
A 142 gram baseball at 60 mph, 0.01666 miles per second, 26.715 meters/second, is:
0.8528 pounds of force.
Now, let's go ahead and be conservative.
HUMAN STRENGTH:
http://msis.jsc.nasa.gov/sections/section04.htm#_4.9_STRENGTH
Since I'm too lazy to translate all of it, your average human male, who would be throwing said ball, can, with their back braced and full extension of both arms generate 254 pounds of force. This isn't quite what he'd be able to benchpress, but let's see how much energy it takes to hold 254 pounds against gravity? WELL, for every action equal reaction, blah blah, so exactly 254 pounds of force for human strength.
Now, Ganon is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than this, and let me say, you trying to block a blow from a baseball bat with a baseball bat, which is much closer to what is happening in this scene, would be HARD, nigh impossible. BUT, we'll use the numbers for the ball, because they're still so huge it makes no difference.
So, if 254 = 0.8, this is now our working ratio, and Ganon is only a single gigajoule in strength to keep you from dodging this point, I maintain he's stronger, let's see what that's equivalent to.
Newton = Joule = 1 000 000 000
Lets see how much that's equivalent to in pounds.
M = 2K/V^2
V = 1, Ganon would actually be able to move the weight, not simply support it.
M = 4409245243.7 pounds.
NOW TO CONVERT THAT INTO A BALL.
4409245243.7/254 x 0.8
= 13887386 pounds acting on Link if Ganon throws a ball at him.
That's 6943 tons. haermm
NOW, can I see a strength feat for Lloyd?
Originally posted by TacDavey
A location... Hmmm... Hyrule field sounds fine to me. No other enemies, or people are present. Like those flying plant things or stalchild things. And it's nice and open with nothing to really get in the way.
Alright, Hyrule field it is. Location is important afterall.
The location does make the hookshot effectively pretty useless, as I doubt he could hit Lloyd with it given his speed. He has nothing to hook onto either that would give him a significant advantage from a distance.
Lloyd has his own problems. Link's strength is a very dangerous threat to he who has no good strength feats. Distance attacks would work best for him. I know he has one but I've not seen it in action. So, if it's not too much trouble, please find me a video of it in action. Gameplay is fine by me, I just need to see it in action.
Of course, neither Lloyd or Link are likely to start out using long range attacks. Lloyd is mostly a close ranged fighter and Link ends up using his sword anyway unless he can't. In pure close range, Link gets the nod. He is far stronger than Lloyd and even though Lloyd may well be faster, a deku nut can be used to cripple that advantage long enough for Link to get the kill in.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelWell, if it is a ball, and Ganon throws it as has been suggested, it needs weight to carry momentum, that's physics! So, what would you estimate the density of a ball that can destroy parts of a castle as?
I wasn't aware you can judge the weight of lightning that has been magically condensed?
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, if it is a ball, and Ganon throws it as has been suggested, it needs weight to carry momentum, that's physics! So, what would you estimate the density of a ball that can destroy parts of a castle as?
1. Where did it destroy any part of the castle?
2. What is the density of lightning?
3. Magic.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
1. Where did it destroy any part of the castle?2. What is the density of lightning?
3. [b]Magic
. [/B]
2. Negligible, lightning arcs, it cannot be thrown by 'physical' means. But the opposition to it being lightning which arcs suggest Ganon throws it, which suggests mass!
3. Aura, I like you, so I'll ignore that this explanation would allow Ganon to speed it up beyond lightning speed. 😛
I'm just covering all bases here, I have my "it's lightning" argument, the opposition has the "It's a ball that Ganon throws" argument.
I would like to investigate both theories.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1. If it misses Link and his the floor it destroys a section of it.2. Negligible, lightning arcs, it cannot be thrown by 'physical' means. But the opposition to it being lightning which arcs suggest Ganon throws it, which suggests mass!
3. Aura, I like you, so I'll ignore that this explanation would allow Ganon to speed it up beyond lightning speed. 😛
I'm just covering all bases here, I have my "it's lightning" argument, the opposition has the "It's a ball that Ganon throws" argument.
I would like to investigate both theories.
1. And this whole time while Griever was *****ing for me to bring him a destructive feat, you didn't bother to mention that? Could have saved me much annoyance.
2. Which means the reason it works is because of magic, since it is impossible. And Zeus begs to differ on whether it can be thrown or not.
3. Daw, I like you too. And there is no reason to assume Ganondorf sped it up to lightning speed.
Alrighty, if you want to investigate it, then you may. I'll throw in my two cents on what you discover. You'll forgive me if I openly listen to your opposition as well before I give my own opinion. 😛
2. Which means the reason it works is because of [b]magic[b], since it is impossible. And Zeus begs to differ on whether it can be thrown or notZeus came about in a time when our understanding of lightning could be summed up as "ow..". 😛
1. And this whole time while Griever was *****ing for me to bring him a destructive feat, you didn't bother to mention that? Could have saved me much annoyance.I make a point of not reading much he says in this thread anymore. haermm My bad.
Alrighty, if you want to investigate it, then you may. I'll throw in my two cents on what you discover. You'll forgive me if I openly listen to your opposition as well before I give my own opinion.
UNFORTUNATELY, to give this idea credence, I still need a mass for the ball. Otherwise it can't be thrown. mmm So, now we're knackered. Wanna call it the weight of a hardball since Ganon would probably, upon making something throwable with magic, make it a good weight for being throwable?
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Zeus came about in a time when our understanding of lightning could be summed up as "ow..". 😛
Or cool.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I make a point of not reading much he says in this thread anymore. haermm My bad.
Poor guy. I want to troll him so bad but I don't have much reason to.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
UNFORTUNATELY, to give this idea credence, I still need a mass for the ball. Otherwise it can't be thrown. mmm So, now we're knackered. Wanna call it the weight of a hardball since Ganon would probably, upon making something throwable with magic, make it a good weight for being throwable?
Actually, I'm not sure you do. Assuming that the ball is magically condensed lightning, it could have very little mass to none, since we don't have density for lightning.
Edit: *starts sharpening Occam's razor*
I see where you're going with this SP, but it isn't going to work. Force = Mass x Acceleration. The mass of the energy ball is likely tiny as it is unaffected by gravity in ganons throw (it does not dip or curve in its move towards Link) and the acceleration is pitiful going by its speed. Therefore the ball has low force behind it. Besides, actual ligtning causes reletively little physical damage when they strike the ground, going much faster than the ball was, so again its unlikely that even if it where lightning that it would have much mass or force behind it.
Actually, I'm not sure you do. Assuming that the ball is magically condensed lightning, it could have very little mass to none, since we don't have density for lightning.Edit: *starts sharpening Occam's razor*
Force = Mass x Acceleration.Good.
The mass of the energy ball is likely tiny as it is unaffected by gravity in ganons throw1. He was all of 3 meters from Link, that's an awful short distance for a throw to arc on, 2. gameplay mechanic, Link's arrows aren't affected by gravity either, weightless?
and the acceleration is pitiful going by its speed.Gameplay speed!
Therefore the ball has low force behind it.Destroys floors, sends Link flying!
Besides, actual ligtning causes reletively little physical damage when they strike the ground,I thought it was a ball? MAKE UP YOUR MIND! Also, Actual lightning does cause some destruction, naturally Ganon's lightning is going to be a bit more powerful anyway. Lightning tends to create glass networks in sand it strikes and blow apart trees. People who survive "strikes" usually are not struck directly.
so again its unlikely that even if it where lightning that it would have much force behind it.But if it's a ball, then it does have mass, so how much?
Does go a bit to shambles with the van point.
Simple maths time for being to dead to be all prof~
If a 1mj van dealt up to 500j thats 1/2000th the force.
Using your numbers, one arm of Ganon is 2.25gj/2000 gives just over 1mj or getting hit by that van. (FYI using 100j as what the guy recieved gives us 0.2mj) That's 20-100x peak punch force. Id wager Lloyd could get some kind of damage with his blades.
Not discrediting your maths, only pointing out the possibilities.
A ball of electricity or magic would weigh.... the weight of that much electricity or magic >.> Also lightning can destroy a tree branch while this attack destroys portions of rock, and the move is still being tesated as regular ightning.
Using your numbers, one arm of Ganon is 2.25gj/2000 gives just over 1mj or getting hit by that van. (FYI using 100j as what the guy recieved gives us 0.2mj) That's 20-100x peak punch force. Id wager Lloyd could get some kind of damage with his blades.My math already accounted for him using only one arm, and in fact, instead of attacking with a sword, throwing a ball and Link bunting.
Not discrediting your maths, only pointing out the possibilities.
If a 1mj van dealt up to 500j thats 1/2000th the force.A van doesn't have a megajoule of energy. 😐 This is legitimately impossible, the engines that drive them cannot even generate that much, and if they could could not transfer it 100% efficiently. O.o
Id wager Lloyd could get some kind of damage with his blades.Not without a damn good strength feat.
A ball of electricity or magic would weigh.... the weight of that much electricity or magic >.> Also lightning can destroy a tree branch while this attack destroys portions of rock, and the move is still being tesated as regular ightning.I don't understand this part, tbh, you typoed at sort of a critical moment. 😛
I'll assume you mean "treated as regular lightning", in which case, it would move as fast as regular lightning. You cannot downplay every aspect of the attack so it's the least impressive possible.
If it's lightning, it has the properties of lightning. Including speed.
If it's a ball, it has the properties of a ball. Including mass.
Really, I'm being pretty cool about investigating the theories of my opposition and it's starting to fall apart. No mass = no throw, so we need mass. >_> So yeah... We should either agree on a mass, or the only option left is that it exhibits the properties of lightning proper.