Lloyd Irving vs Link

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The room going dark is odd, but everything else can be explained by electricity producing light.

Hm, the room remains dark as long as the ball's in motion. IT SHINES WITH EVIL DARKNESS. mmm

Also, you're referring to it refracting, I think?

Yes, refracting. Which it can't do without light.

Or...Ganondorf is sucking all the light out the room and using it as a weapon. And when it breaks, the light returns to the room. When Link shoots him with the light arrows, the room also goes dark. Could the light arrows be taking the light from the rest of the room and using it as power to hurt Ganondorf?

I ****in love Magic.

Yeah a ball of magic charged with electricity would move as fast as a ball of magic does. Just because it uses electricity doesn't make it move at lightning speed because its still a magic ball at the base.

By your logic that attack at 9:10 must of been lightning speed as it had an electric charge. Even with its wavy movements, faster then usual speed and obviously being formed by magic alone.

@Aura: The lens flare?

Edit: On that MS reflection thing the MS reflects magic not the elements to my knowledge. For instance it cant reflect Twinrova's ice and fire. Doesn't make sense that it can do it to an elemental like lightning when it can for anything else but a magic attack... just putting it out there.

Whatever it's called. I figure since we're gonna nitpick the gameplay to death, I'd mention it. >_>

Edit: Oooooh. Maybe the magic is refracting the light of the ball?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yes, refracting. Which it can't do without light.

Or...Ganondorf is sucking all the light out the room and using it as a weapon. And when it breaks, the light returns to the room. When Link shoots him with the light arrows, the room also goes dark. Could the light arrows be taking the light from the rest of the room and using it as power to hurt Ganondorf?

I ****in love [b]Magic. [/B]

Yeah a ball of magic charged with electricity would move as fast as a ball of magic does. Just because it uses electricity doesn't make it move at lightning speed because its still a magic ball at the base.

What is this pure magic you can make a ball out of, anyway? Can it turn me into a sheep? 😬 How about we think about this a moment longer and remember this is a destructive attack meant to kill someone, and that it is electrical in nature. Yes, it's a magical attack... You kind of need magic to get a handful of lightning, but where does this make it slow, when logicly if I had magic I'd use it to amp my attacks?

Magic: A handful of lightning. Now we need to prove he changed the property of that electricity in some way. And IF he can, why is he slowing it down? HM!?

By your logic that attack at 9:10 must of been lightning speed as it had an electric charge. Even with its wavy movements, faster then usual speed and obviously being formed by magic alone.

Also, neither Ganon or the light arrows have ever worked that way, Aura. mmm Ganon using light as a weapon sort of breaks the theme of the games, too. Tbh, I'm not sure why the room gets dark when he does that, but I know the same thing happens when Link charges his spin attack. Perhaps it's a cinematic effect for the ****its?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Unfortunately, you don't need pure elemental light for refraction. 😛 Just a light source and moisture in the air. PROBABLY FROM BLOODSHED!

Also, neither Ganon or the light arrows have ever worked that way, Aura. mmm Ganon using light as a weapon sort of breaks the theme of the games, too. Tbh, I'm not sure why the room gets dark when he does that, but I know the same thing happens when Link charges his spin attack. Perhaps it's a cinematic effect for the ****its?

Someone's been bleeding?

Ganondorf is the big baddie who wants to rid the world of light. He does this by sealing off his entire room in darkness and using the light to attack Link, who in essence is the light of Hyrule, the savoir of the people. Using light to kill what is essentially "the light of the world" is rather poetic. Or maybe he just prefered to fight in his element and make his section of the room dark by sucking it into his attack?

So when Link, another triforce weilder, uses a powerful magic attack, it also sucks in the light from the area for it all to be released in one crushing blow.

I feel like playing Kingdom Hearts now. 🙄

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Someone's been bleeding?

Ganondorf is the big baddie who wants to rid the world of light. He does this by sealing off his entire room in darkness and using the light to attack Link, who in essence is the light of Hyrule, the savoir of the people. Using light to kill what is essentially "the light of the world" is rather poetic. Or maybe he just prefered to fight in his element and make his section of the room dark by sucking it into his attack?

So when Link, another triforce weilder, uses a powerful magic attack, it also sucks in the light from the area for it all to be released in one crushing blow.

I feel like playing Kingdom Hearts now. 🙄

PERVERT ZE LIGHT TO DARKNESS. Eh, I dunno, I still think it's just a cool looking effect that really suits the boss battle. mmm Since Link doesn't use light in his spin attacks at all, and it does it even if he's out of magic, or has none, as a kid, with no triforce.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Do you have any idea how much this thread has made me want to replay OoT? haermm If I didn't have a terminal case of ADHD/Post math euphoria, I'd probably already be in the water temple cursing Shiggy.

PERVERT ZE LIGHT TO DARKNESS. Eh, I dunno, I still think it's just a cool looking effect that really suits the boss battle. mmm Since Link doesn't use light in his spin attacks at all, and it does it even if he's out of magic, or has none, as a kid, with no triforce.

It's mostly just the light and darkness shit. haermm

Link learns the great spin as a kid?

Link can do spin attacks as a youngin before he even gets the magic bar, it just lacks flashy blue or red flames.

Difference is that we've seen him use attacks like this by charging magic alone. 3 other attacks. To imply this attack is pure lightning even if it has all the same properties of the other attacks, just because its charged with more electricity is illogical.

Really? 'Cos it seems like it. Didnt you say that the dark charged and puppet orbs were lightning speed too with the only evidence being some sparks? This attack has an electric charge so doesn't it apply like the rest do?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link can do spin attacks as a youngin before he even gets the magic bar, it just lacks flashy blue or red flames.

Inconsistency FTW!

Ediy: Give my theory credit, it's at least keeping in touch with the fantasy aspect of this shit. >_>

Really? 'Cos it seems like it. Didnt you say that the dark charged and puppet orbs were lightning speed too with the only evidence being some sparks? This attack has an electric charge so doesn't it apply like the rest do?

You expect Ganon to overhand some attacks and underhand lightning or something? mmm

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Inconsistency FTW!

Ediy: Give my theory credit, it's at least keeping in touch with the fantasy aspect of this shit. >_>

And if it burns things and crackles like fire? 😐

If it looks like fire and act like fire then it is fire. 😐

If it looks like fire but doesn't behave like fire then there is doubt whether its actually fire and we'll have to look deeper to determine exactly what it is.

Lets look again at the example of Force Lightning:

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It behaves like lightning and superficially looks like it too, but teh fact that its purple indicates that it isn't real lightning. hell, Starkillers looks and behaves like it. Does that make it actual lightning? No. Just like Ganon's 'lightning' looks and superficially behaves like lightning, but factors like its shape, speed and effect indicate that it isn't real lightning.

Though hell, AuraAngel pretty much just proved that it wasn't with the lightning thing, so whtevr.

The "upshot" of all of this, is you're now legitimately arguing an electrical attack which behaves like elctricity, with an electrical start, electrical end, and so on and so forth, is not electric, because you don't like it.

Er, nope, I'm arguing because I legitimately think thet you're wrong and are needlessly overpowering a character you have a bias towards and I don't like you giving Link feats that he doesn't perform.

Am I being a prick? Maybe, but you're being awfully thick. Like some sort of super dense plank of thickness taped to a thick plank of density.

And that gives you the right to insult me and insinuate that I am less than human? Again, tone it down a little.

And here's why I say what I said above.

What facts? Which? What "facts" could you possibly have that prove this attack is not electrical when it in all respects behaves and is presented as such? Hm?

Urgh, you already know what they are, why are you even asking?

Shape.
Speed.
Force (effect).
The Light thingy of AuraAngels.
The fact that you havn't proven it is lightning.

And if you recall, my original contention wasn't that it wasn't electrical but that it was Ball Lightning as opposed to a Lightning Bolt. If it is indeed electrical in nature then it is the former rather than the latter. I am, however, open to the idea that its simply magical in nature rather than electrical.

Look closely, Link comes back to the wall everytime he's hit. no expression Or actually play the game. Not that it makes a difference, physics, the representation of the attack and how it behaves and the fact it does knock Link from his feet are all on my side. Not that what you're currently downplaying is even relevant.

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2.08. Yeah, what were you saying?

Sure you did. Stating that that flash was the cutscene of this lightning strike..... what, black hole? You expect Dorf after failing to land lightning to shoot normal magic in hopes it'll hit?

You said that flash was lightning, as was phantoms and Dorf's so why not this one? Im thinking that by admitting to this you'll have to find a way to explain the charge, speed and movements which is impossible to call lightning >.>

And that gives you the right to insult me and insinuate that I am less than human?

If it looks like fire and act like fire then it is fire.

Er, nope, I'm arguing because I legitimately think thet you're wrong and are needlessly overpowering a character you have a bias towards and I don't like you giving Link feats that he doesn't perform.

Urgh, you already know what they are, why are you even asking?

Shape.
Speed.
Force (effect).
The Light thingy of AuraAngels.
The fact that you havn't proven it is lightning.

Watched video, Link was thrown from his feet, you take issue with that?

Sure you did. Stating that that flash was the cutscene of this lightning strike..... what, black hole? You expect Dorf after failing to land lightning to shoot normal magic in hopes it'll hit?

Simultaneous strikes are a good way around someone speedy, and the speed of the attack is ambiguous because it's only represented in gameplay.

Wat? I've nevewr said the cutscene was the same attack. I HAVE said it is too fast to see. 😐 And it is, we don't get to see it move. It's also an inferior attack from before either character has their piece of the triangle.

I also never said phantom Ganon's was lightning. If you go back and quote the post you're referencing you'll see that. Neither had the sparky electrical effects of Ganondorf's.

The charging animation? Well, he's getting a handful of lightning, you want him to store it in his pocket?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You can't even read your own post. That is exactly what you implied. And she is as durable as a fox until you prove otherwise. Yes, prove to me that killing her matters. [b]Prove it. And okay, we'll have it your way. What he deflected was strong. Now...how strong was it?

He can but he never tried. That is all I read from that. In order to apply that principle to Lloyd you must also apply it to Link. Not doing so is blatant favoritism. And if I can launch that marble across the country, I could likely break it easily. And he doesn't have to slash and cut through rocks. Just Lloyd's face.

You say they are weak compared to Volt's attack. I disagree based on what we've seen. And no. Let me repeat: I do not give a single solitary shit that he beat a village of ninja. Why? Because we do not know how he did it. Did he nuke them? If he did, then he has shown more power than Ganondorf's ki blast. Is it fair to assume that's what he did? Not in the slightest. So unless some context is provided, it means Nothing.

Link to the Zeldapedia that says this?

Edit: Are you guys ready to get your mind Blown by something I just discovered!? Are ya!? If not then too bad!

Spoiler:
The ball is mad of electricity And light.

[/B]

No, I did not. Oh so she must be as durable as a fox because she looks like one? I suppose the characters are as durable as mere teenagers because they look like teenagers, huh? Start explaining that horrendous logic. If a person kills a cat with a flamethrower, then the same person shots at me and I effortlessly withstand the fire without suffering any kind of injuries, would you say my feat is unimpressive just because it killed a cat and not a 200Kg gorilla (even though it would kill it too)? Volt has impressive feats, taking into account what he's capable of, what Lloyd did to two of his charged up lightning bolts with no effort was a display of strength and endurance.

No, I used a logical reasoning to prove Lloyd would be capable of such in my previous post. It wouldn't apply the same explanation because it won't work, as both situations are entirely different. You must prove Link can slash through SOLID hard objects. We don't apply the same force to lift something than to hit something. Martial fighters are strong enough to destroy hard solid objects with punches, however they don't apply that same strength to lift a car. And just because Link lifted and tossed that pillar does not mean he can slash it with a sword. 'Cause, the GGs aren't made for that either way.

No, I said they aren't as strong according to what you told me about them and to what we know about them. How comes it means nothing to destroy a village with ninja warriors? Are you honestly saying that we cannot conclude that Volt is simply powerful to be able to destroy a village full of ninja warriors with his powers? Didn't you saw what he did with a mere shockwave? Lloyd parried one of his attack with no effort! How comes is not a feat for Lloyd? How comes Lloyd put no strenght to do so? Explain dat, bro. :/

Originally posted by TacDavey
Occam's Razor is going to be getting dull by the end of this.

You guys trying to apply math and physics to a fantasy video game is beyond ridiculous. Here's another alternative. The developers had stuff happen. The end.

You really think the devs sat down at a table and tried to work out the math behind how much of an ark the magic ball should have if it had a certain weight? You know a simpler explanation? The devs made a magic ball and had it thrown at Link. I bet there was one guy in the back who was all like "Let's figure out the weight so we can make sure the ball arches correctly. Cuz you know... nothing can be thrown without weight." 😱

glare

And then he was likely fired.

Mathing this is useless. Because between:

Mathematical properties being applied to a N64 fantasy game about magic wish granting triangles.

and:

The developers had Ganon do some magic sh*t.

Occam's razor is always going to say the second one is the more logical answer.

Everyone's bashing the math, I worked hard on that, and it's accurate to real life physics, damnit!

Magic is not real life physics though. 🙁

I can cite multiple instances of you calling me varying forms of retarded,

Nah, just the arguments you some times come up with. I personally think you're highly intelligent, just really biased.

where did I insinuate you're less than human?

You considered keeping me as a pet, indicating that I'm some sort of animal. That offended me deeply.

This looks and acts like electricity.

It debatably resembles and debatably bahaves in some similar ways to electricity. However there are aspects that are counter to the way lightning looks and behaves. That is why we are having this debate.

Then maybe if you could refute them with some actual evidence?

Maybe if you could back them up with some actual evidence?

Redundant, you want them to play tennis with a sideways Z?

Yes. 😐

C'mon that would be so awesome, admit it.

Gameplay speed? Yeah, let's go ahead and remember that player needs to be able to react, hm?

If they wanted to keep the speeds consistent then it would be extremely simple. It is pure speculation that the gameplay speed is inaccurate.

Force? It destroys the floor. 😐

And makes Link trip. This is utterly inconsistent.

The same effect Link creates when he spins? 😐

That spin uses magic, no?

Watched video, Link was thrown from his feet, you take issue with that?

He's thrown back like a foot. If the ball really wieghed 12 tons he would go flying muuuuuuch further from the impact.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's called a blackhole attack, I don't know why, so meh.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Simultaneous strikes are a good way around someone speedy, and the speed of the attack is ambiguous because it's only represented in gameplay.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wat? I've nevewr said the cutscene was the same attack. I HAVE said it is too fast to see. 😐 And it is, we don't get to see it move. It's also an inferior attack from before either character has their piece of the triangle.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I also never said phantom Ganon's was lightning. If you go back and quote the post you're referencing you'll see that. Neither had the sparky electrical effects of Ganondorf's.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The charging animation? Well, he's getting a handful of lightning, you want him to store it in his pocket?

Nah, just the arguments you some times come up with. I personally think you're highly intelligent, just really biased.

You considered keeping me as a pet, indicating that I'm some sort of animal. That offended me deeply.

For the record, no ill intent, just general sarcastic oldmannery.

Also, arrrgh. You freakin' youngin's. I've been awake since yesterday. I will sleep after this post. I will sleep after this post. ...Not likely.

Who calls it that?

Slow moving orbs to hit a lightning timer... how very interesting Dorf. Now isnt that like him sabotaging himself in the fight for using a slower attack?

Have referenced it for the lightning feat. That the attack 'must' be faster then that unknown speed move.

Saying he's using the tridents power like back in FSA. Besides the cutscene all three attacks have electrical properties. That makes all of them electric orbs but for some reason only one is lightning speed, right?

I've only ever claimed the attack from the actual Ganondorf fight as lightning speed.

Charge. Its kinda basic like that.