Lloyd Irving vs Link

O-o source?

Problem is that even if its gameplay speed its a faster attack then the single one. And you cant state a gameplay claim as both attacks are made to be hit back.

Whats the difference? 3 attacks and all 3 are electrical. Why arent they all at lightning speed?

Or in fiction energy, magic even power. Charged as in powered by, which all three attacks are. An electrical affinity.

Whats the difference? 3 attacks and all 3 are electrical. Why arent they all at lightning speed?

I cannot recall the source on the name, but I have no intention of using a name to somehow imply it's a literal blackhole anyway, so ... I don't really feel the need to back that one up. It's not relevant to my argument and I'm tired, and I PROVED A LIGHTNING BOLT CAN WEIGH 12 TONS. >=| I DEMAND SOME RECOGNITION. haermm Holy crap, man. 😐

Problem is that even if its gameplay speed its a faster attack then the single one. And you cant state a gameplay claim as both attacks are made to be hit back.

Recognition given then >-> though I disagree with it im too dead to check the maths.

Lol good just checking. Cant be too sure with that black hole thing mentioned before.

Yep all three are and speed wise the last is the faster one. Seeing as the only thing that supports the lightning speed in OoT is that its made of electricity they'll be claimed as it too. But with the other two being called lighting it'll open up more problems with the speed argument. Like the movements, sounds, appearance etc all pointing to energy/magic and cant really be argued for lightning. Yar.

Edited in another post: ''On that MS reflection thing the MS reflects magic not the elements to my knowledge. For instance it cant reflect Twinrova's ice and fire. Doesn't make sense that it can do it to an elemental like lightning when it can't for anything else but a magic attack... just putting it out there.''

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No, I did not. Oh so she must be as durable as a fox because she looks like one? I suppose the characters are as durable as mere teenagers because they look like teenagers, huh? Start explaining that horrendous logic. If a person kills a cat with a flamethrower, then the same person shots at me and I effortlessly withstand the fire without suffering any kind of injuries, would you say my feat is unimpressive just because it killed a cat and not a 200Kg gorilla (even though it would kill it too)? Volt has impressive feats, taking into account what he's capable of, what Lloyd did to two of his charged up lightning bolts with no effort was a display of strength and endurance.

Characters are as durable as they look unless proven otherwise. If Corrine was proven to be extra special durable at any moment, then the lightning has a feat. As is, it has nothing. I'd say you were impressive and likely heat resistant. Physically strong it does not make you. Volt's feats are him knocking the party across the room and killing Corrine. That is every feat from Volt that I have seen.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No, I used a logical reasoning to prove Lloyd would be capable of such in my previous post. It wouldn't apply the same explanation because it won't work, as both situations are entirely different. You must prove Link can slash through SOLID hard objects. We don't apply the same force to lift something than to hit something. Martial fighters are strong enough to destroy hard solid objects with punches, however they don't apply that same strength to lift a car. And just because Link lifted and tossed that pillar does not mean he can slash it with a sword. 'Cause, the GGs aren't made for that either way.

Logical reasoning must also be applied to Link. The GG increase arm strength. The force of a sword swing is determined by the arm strength. Yes, I am well aware that lifting strength is not fully applied to striking force. But if I can lift something that weighs, say, 5 tons, I'm pretty sure I can lop someone's head off with ease. If my sword was sharp enough anyway.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No, I said they aren't as strong according to what you told me about them and to what we know about them. How comes it means nothing to destroy a village with ninja warriors? Are you honestly saying that we cannot conclude that Volt is simply powerful to be able to destroy a village full of ninja warriors with his powers? Didn't you saw what he did with a mere shockwave? Lloyd parried one of his attack with no effort! How comes is not a feat for Lloyd? How comes Lloyd put no strenght to do so? Explain dat, bro. :/

Because:

1. We don't know how he killed the ninjas. If I said, Link has killed a zillion monsters, I can use that as a feat? Link is leading in feats already.

2. And that mere shockwave was the best display of his power we have.

3. It's not a feat for Lloyd, strength wise anyway, because we don't know how strong the lightning is bro.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Characters are as durable as they look unless proven otherwise. If Corrine was proven to be extra special durable at any moment, then the lightning has a feat. As is, it has nothing. I'd say you were impressive and likely heat resistant. Physically strong it does not make you. Volt's feats are him knocking the party across the room and killing Corrine. That is every feat from Volt that I have seen.

Logical reasoning must also be applied to Link. The GG increase arm strength. The force of a sword swing is determined by the arm strength. Yes, I am well aware that lifting strength is not fully applied to striking force. But if I can lift something that weighs, say, 5 tons, I'm pretty sure I can lop someone's head off with ease. If my sword was sharp enough anyway.

Because: We don't know how he killed the ninjas. If I said, Link has killed a zillion monsters, I can use that as a feat? Link is leading in feats already. And that mere shockwave was the best display of his power we have. It's not a feat for Lloyd, strength wise anyway, because we don't know how strong the lightning is bro.

According to who? It's an argument from ignorance, TheAuraAngel. You cannot say she is as weak as a normal fox just because the character LOOKS like a fox. The fact that there is no evidence supporting something does NOT make the opposite true. Lloyd's feat is parrying what electrocuted and killed someone else. I don't mention Corrine because is unimportant, just as unimportant as the cat in my analogy. The lightning just as Volt's power have feats without Corrine, just as the fire without the cat. I know, right? Except fire does not create shockwaves of power when it hits you. So I suppose Lloyd requiered of physical strength to parry lightning bolts. And just as being resistant to heat, Lloyd had resistance to lightning shots.

Yeah, through flesh, normal humans can slash through flesh with a katana. But not through solid rocks. I'm glad we agree that lifting strength is not = striking force though. I said they could give a boost of strength to his attacks, but I don't buy Link slashing through rocks.

Indeed, but how do you expect him to do it? He only has lightning, so it's logical to assume he did with lightning, just as with Corrine and almost with that other ninja girl Lloyd saved. Link is leading in what? Link slashing rocks is being discussed, also his durability as well as his items, and none seems plausible for most people here. And Tac posted several Lloyd's feats besides this one. A mere shockwave that blow away several characters at once with ease... yeah, pretty powerful if you ask me. The shockwaves are manifestations of the lightning's power, so you see. And the impact of what he parried created shockwaves of power. Plus, Lloyd was the only one capable of doing such, so it's safe to assume his contribution in the fight against Volt was 100% required. Yes, it is strength-wise for Lloyd, hands down.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
According to who? It's an argument from ignorance, TheAuraAngel. You cannot say she is as weak as a normal fox just because the character LOOKS like a fox. The fact that there is no evidence supporting something does NOT make the opposite true. Lloyd's feat is parrying what electrocuted and killed someone else. I don't mention Corrine because is unimportant, just as unimportant as the cat in my analogy. The lightning just as Volt's power have feats without Corrine, just as the fire without the cat. I know, right? Except fire does not create shockwaves of power when it hits you. So I suppose Lloyd requiered of physical strength to parry lightning bolts. And just as being resistant to heat, Lloyd had resistance to lightning shots.

You're absolutly right. I should just accept the fact that Volt's lightning is as strong as a nuke because I can't assume Corrine is weak. Poor silly ignorant me. And you're right, it doesn't. It makes it better than nothing though. You know, lightning doesn't have shockwaves in real life. The best example we have of Volt's power is the multi attack he used. But since that was several blasts, it means I can't judge the power behind one attack.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Yeah, through flesh, normal humans can slash through flesh with a katana. But not through solid rocks. I'm glad we agree that lifting strength is not = striking force though. I said they could give a boost of strength to his attacks, but I don't buy Link slashing through rocks.

Why rocks? 1. The battle field they're on doesn't have big rocks in the open that Link would need to slash through. 2. The reason I don't see humans cutting through rock is mostly due to the sword, not the swordsman. 3. I don't care what you buy.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Indeed, but how do you expect him to do it? He only has lightning, so it's logical to assume he did with lightning, just as with Corrine and almost with that other ninja girl Lloyd saved. Link is leading in what? Link slashing rocks is being discussed, also his durability as well as his items, and none seems plausible for most people here. And Tac posted several Lloyd's feats besides this one. A mere shockwave that blow away several characters at once with ease... yeah, pretty powerful if you ask me. The shockwaves are manifestations of the lightning's power, so you see. And the impact of what he parried created shockwaves of power. Plus, Lloyd was the only one capable of doing such, so it's safe to assume his contribution in the fight against Volt was 100% required. Yes, it is strength-wise for Lloyd, hands down.

So I assume he can nuke them all with lightning but I've never seen so? My guess is he floated in and started killing them one by one. I don't know that but it's not proven wrong. Link still has strength feats, intelligent feats, and his items are far more useful. Lloyd's got a feat for reaction time and speed. His strength feats are at the moment, weaker than Link's. Just like how Link is slower than Lloyd. And wow, it blew them across the room. I don't really care. And one lightning bolt=several? How strong a strength feat was it for Lloyd?

Please leave. Your contributions to this thread are non-existent and you're wasting my time. You have provided no reason to think that you're contributing to either side winning this thread.

Gah! 🤨 I don't respond for a day and three pages get added. I can't keep up with you guys...

So... Link has strength. I'll give him that. I don't give him lightning timing or super durability, though. Lightning for untold amounts of reasons, and durability because the only support for that is Link getting his sword knocked out of his hand.

I don't know what intelligence has to do with it. Last I checked you don't have to be smart to be a good fighter, but at any rate Lloyd looses on this one. He's a moron. Even so, he's stronger than Zelos and Genis, who are practically super geniuses.

I don't know if his items give him that much of a boost either, though we never really did talk about them.

No intelligence doesnt matter much for battle skill, not unless he's one of those classic tall,strong&dumb characters. Nor is Link one to use his intellect in a fight.

The important items for this match are the Master Sword, GG's, arrows and Din's fire. Of the latter two only the arrows can pose a threat.

Link recognizes how to kill an enemy rather quickly for someone who doesn't use intellect in a fight. If the word intelligent is too much, we'll just call him observant. Fair enough?

The majority of Link's items are useless. Hookshot wouldn't be fast enough. Arrows are a little more help but beyond that, I see Link having difficulty in hitting someone as fast as Lloyd. Bombs could be helping if used properly for traps and such but it's not like Link really gets anytime to set things up.

I still say a Deku nut is incredibly useful for fighting a faster enemy. Stun them for a few seconds and then go in for the kill.

Thats a better word for it. Intellect in a fight I see as those with chess/strategic minds or that think on a whole different level to us. To place a point on Lloyd's side he's the more skilled fighter imo. Evens things out for lacking in brains.

If they managed to hit, the fire, ice and light arrows would be problematic with Lloyd not having any known resistance to those elements. Still, its difficult to tag Lloyd with this.

The most basic nut is the most feared >.> What does the Eternal sword do for his chances here?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Thats a better word for it. Intellect in a fight I see as those with chess/strategic minds or that think on a whole different level to us. To place a point on Lloyd's side he's the more skilled fighter imo. Evens things out for lacking in brains.

If they managed to hit, the fire, ice and light arrows would be problematic with Lloyd not having any known resistance to those elements. Still, its difficult to tag Lloyd with this.

The most basic nut is the most feared >.> What does the Eternal sword do for his chances here?

I'll concede that Lloyd is likely more skilled. Would need to know more of his backstory first but whatever.

True. Still, bastard is hard to stop moving. Link might luck out and catch him with the hookshot though. If he decides to be evasive instead of offensive. Hang back and use long distance is his best bet. Someone needs to find me a video so I don't have to put in effort. >.<

I know right? 😆

He doesn't have the Eternal Sword here I don't think. And if it does have the power to cut through a planet, he is cutting through Link.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You're absolutly right. I should just accept the fact that Volt's lightning is as strong as a nuke because I can't assume Corrine is weak. Poor silly ignorant me. And you're right, it doesn't. It makes it better than nothing though. You know, lightning doesn't have shockwaves in real life. The best example we have of Volt's power is the multi attack he used. But since that was several blasts, it means I can't judge the power behind one attack.

Why rocks? 1. The battle field they're on doesn't have big rocks in the open that Link would need to slash through. 2. The reason I don't see humans cutting through rock is mostly due to the sword, not the swordsman. 3. I don't care what you buy.

So I assume he can nuke them all with lightning but I've never seen so? My guess is he floated in and started killing them one by one. I don't know that but it's not proven wrong. Link still has strength feats, intelligent feats, and his items are far more useful. Lloyd's got a feat for reaction time and speed. His strength feats are at the moment, weaker than Link's. Just like how Link is slower than Lloyd. And wow, it blew them across the room. I don't really care. And one lightning bolt=several? How strong a strength feat was it for Lloyd?

Please leave. Your contributions to this thread are non-existent and you're wasting my time. You have provided no reason to think that you're contributing to either side winning this thread.

No one has said they are as strong as a nuke. And yeah, it was an argument from ignorance fallacy. Corrine doesn't have to be powerful in order to be a good feat for Lloyd, I have explained that already. You are arguing this point for the sake of arguing. If this also matters, after the first two/three bolts the characters were already rised up in the air, mostly the ninja girl who was near Volt. And they were not even direct hits, nor they were charged up bolts. Lloyd could withstand the force of two direct shots of charged up bolts. Lloyd's strength/durability is great.

I won't buy Link slashing rocks because there aren't strong reasons to think so. Link's lifting strength > Lloyd's (well not literally since we don't have nothing for him), but let's say yes.

I said he used lightning because is the ONLY power he has. The event is unseen, but Volt DID KILL all of those warriors and destroyed a village with his powers nonetheless. Link has a lifting strength feat (due an item) and items. Lloyd can slash lightning, he has got lightning reactions, lightning endurance, as well as above-human physical strength to be able to withstand shots of fatal lightning bolts single handed. Tac posted also great leaping ability for him and surviving enormous falls right at the start of the game.

I'm providing feats for Lloyd.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I'll concede that Lloyd is likely more skilled. Would need to know more of his backstory first but whatever.

True. Still, bastard is hard to stop moving. Link might luck out and catch him with the hookshot though. If he decides to be evasive instead of offensive. Hang back and use long distance is his best bet. Someone needs to find me a video so I don't have to put in effort. >.<

I know right? 😆

He doesn't have the Eternal Sword here I don't think. And if it does have the power to cut through a planet, he is cutting through Link.

Lloyd's skills are all self taught, though there are side missions through the game in which Kratos trains him.

A video of what? Lloyd fights enemies with crossbows, though, and more than one at a time. Besides, I don't think arrows move faster than lightning.

No, he doesn't have the Eternal Sword in this fight.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No one has said they are as strong as a nuke. And yeah, it was an argument from ignorance fallacy. Corrine doesn't have to be powerful in order to be a good feat for Lloyd, I have explained that already. You are arguing this point for the sake of arguing. If this also matters, after the first two/three bolts the characters were already rised up in the air, mostly the ninja girl who was near Volt. And they were not even direct hits, nor they were charged up bolts. Lloyd could withstand the force of two direct shots of charged up bolts. Lloyd's strength/durability is great.

You do know how lightning kills people right? And not really. I'm mostly just giving you the attention you so clearly want, even though you contribute nothing. We can't infer how strong Lloyd is from just the lightning bolt and it falls flat compared to Link chucking something that weighs several tones. His durability isn't really seen either. He blocks the lightning, he doesn't survive it. (Except in Gameplay of course)

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I won't buy Link slashing rocks because there aren't strong reasons to think so. Link's lifting strength > Lloyd's (well not literally since we don't have nothing for him), but let's say yes.

What is it with you and rocks? And there are plenty of reasons to suggest his sword strikes are powerful, you're just ignoring them. And lol at the use of the word lifting before strength. Link's strength is better than Lloyds until proven otherwise. By you...or Tac. I don't care.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I said he used lightning because is the ONLY power he has. The event is unseen, but Volt DID KILL all of those warriors and destroyed a village with his powers nonetheless. Link has a lifting strength feat (due an item) and items. Lloyd can slash lightning, he has got lightning reactions, lightning endurance, as well as above-human physical strength to be able to withstand shots of fatal lightning bolts single handed. Tac posted also great leaping ability for him and surviving enormous falls right at the start of the game.

I'm providing feats for Lloyd.

So we can conclude that talking about his "feat" is entirely pointless correct? Good? Glad that's settled. Yes, Link's strength comes from his items, big whoop. Lloyd never slashes through lightning, that's just you using that He can but he never tried argument that you pinned on me like it was the Scarlet Letter or something. His endurance is not scene at all from that scene. Above human strength sure, but again nothing next to Link.

You're providing feats for Llyod? Well if that isn't just a lovely lie. Tac is doing all the work.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Lloyd's skills are all self taught, though there are side missions through the game in which Kratos trains him.

A video of what? Lloyd fights enemies with crossbows, though, and more than one at a time. Besides, I don't think arrows move faster than lightning.

No, he doesn't have the Eternal Sword in this fight.

Here's two things I would like to know:

1. Is there a good in game description of the sword? I know the history behind it how Mithos split the world in half and yada yada but I just want some good, solid exposition from the game.

2. Does Lloyd ever fight anyone that uses the sword? If so, is there like a cutscene where they cross blades?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You do know how lightning kills people right? And not really. I'm mostly just giving you the attention you so clearly want, even though you contribute nothing. We can't infer how strong Lloyd is from just the lightning bolt and it falls flat compared to Link chucking something that weighs several tones. His durability isn't really seen either. He blocks the lightning, he doesn't survive it. (Except in Gameplay of course)

What is it with you and rocks? And there are plenty of reasons to suggest his sword strikes are powerful, you're just ignoring them. And lol at the use of the word lifting before strength. Link's [b]strength is better than Lloyds until proven otherwise. By you...or Tac. I don't care.

So we can conclude that talking about his "feat" is entirely pointless correct? Good? Glad that's settled. Yes, Link's strength comes from his items, big whoop. Lloyd never slashes through lightning, that's just you using that He can but he never tried argument that you pinned on me like it was the Scarlet Letter or something. His endurance is not scene at all from that scene. Above human strength sure, but again nothing next to Link. You're providing feats for Llyod? Well if that isn't just a lovely lie. Tac is doing all the work. [/B]

What do you mean Lloyd doesn't survive the lightning shots? He sure did. Watch the video.

They are powerful because they are powerful, right? I see no reason to think he could cut through solid rocks, just lift them, which is the only think he has got over Lloyd, lift heavy things.

No it's not. Volt destroyed a village full of ninja warriors with his powers, you can't pass it as if it means nothing, sorry to say. It's a feat. And no, I used a logical reasoning to support the idea of Lloyd slashing Volt's bolts. You didn't the same for Link slashing rocks. It certainly is, Lloyd could withstand the force of charged up lightning bolts single handed. And it does not matter if that don't help him to lift a stone pillar anyway.

Back from what could be called intense sleep deprivation. @.@ This insomnia thing, shit's gotta go.

Lloyd is being assumed to be more skilled than Link now, with no evidence to support that, that's neato. He's still not strong enough to hurt Link, blah blah blah, so on. Any strength feats for Lloyd yet?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean Lloyd doesn't survive the lightning shots? He sure did. Watch the video.

They are powerful because they are powerful, right? I see no reason to think he could cut through solid rocks, just lift them, which is the only think he has got over Lloyd, lift heavy things.

No it's not. Volt destroyed a village full of ninja warriors with his powers, you can't pass it as if it means nothing, sorry to say. It's a feat. And no, I used a logical reasoning to support the idea of Lloyd slashing Volt's bolts. You didn't the same for Link slashing rocks. It certainly is, Lloyd could withstand the force of charged up lightning bolts single handed. And it does not matter if that don't help him to lift a stone pillar anyway.

I wasn't aware that blocking something means you can survive it?

Again with the word lift. Doesn't the fact that he is able to lift something heavy indicate that maybe, just maybe, he might have arm strength to cut through things? I mean, as a kid he could allegedly slice through logs of wood like nothing without any GGs.

You're right. It's clearly a feat. What should I classify it under? Power? Strength? Intelligence? Until you can tell me, I file it under LIBSICM. And lol at the person using logical reasoning when he can't even tell me how a sword works.

By the way, LLLC

YouTube video

1:36. LOYS says you're welcome.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I wasn't aware that blocking something means you can survive it?

Again with the word lift. Doesn't the fact that he is able to lift something heavy indicate that maybe, just maybe, he might have arm strength to cut through things? I mean, as a kid he could allegedly slice through logs of wood like nothing without any GGs.

You're right. It's clearly a feat. What should I classify it under? Power? Strength? Intelligence? Until you can tell me, I file it under LIBSICM. And lol at the person using logical reasoning when he can't even tell me how a sword works.

But he did parried AND survived it, didn't he? Unlike someone else who could do anything about it. Again, there is the feat.

It does not, just by the same fact that if I strengthen my arms/shoulders by lifting heavy dumbbells and doing exercise won't make me break a lil marble ball afterwards. Normal humans can slash through wood. And yeah, I have said that Link can receive a boost of strength for his physical attacks some post ago, even though that's nowhere suggested in the game... Can't we agree on that?

Exactly, power. Mostly for his lightning attacks, of course. Why do you attack me instead of my arguments? I'm not even responding you with aggressions...

Griever you fill me with the need to facepalm you. It's like the napalm of the internet.

mariofacepalm You DO realise the difference in scale between a 30 pound weight and a multi-hundred ton pillar, right?

Also, no, normal humans cannot, with one hand, slash through logs, especially not against the grain.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But he did parried AND survived it, didn't he? Unlike someone else who could do anything about it. Again, there is the feat.

It does not, just by the same fact that if I strengthen my arms/shoulders by lifting heavy dumbbells and doing exercise won't make me break a lil marble ball afterwards. Normal humans can slash through wood. And yeah, I have said that Link can receive a boost of strength for his physical attacks some post ago, even though that's nowhere suggested in the game... Can't we agree on that?

Exactly, power. Mostly for his lightning attacks, of course. Why do you attack me instead of my arguments? I'm not even responding you with aggressions...

Parrying something means you're body is not taking the full blow. It means your blocking it. He never got hit by the lightning head on.

Alright, since you agree that Link is now capable of cutting Lloyd's head off, then yes, we can.

We haven't seen anything so no, we can't classify it. We can guess, but we are not sure. For all I know, he could have just been hitting them with the lightning used to kill Corrine. And clearly you aren't. Does that mean I'm not allowed to be annoyed at someone who is being stubborn when there is no reason to be?

Edit: Scream, acknowledge LOYS present for you. >_>