Lloyd Irving vs Link

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Withstanding the force of something is different than actually surviving it. It has to be the latter for it to count as an endurance feat.

Ya did.

Obviously. If I heard rumors that so and so had the power to anihilate countries, I won't cry to see it. But destroying a village of ninja is different. Did he completely eradicate the village in one blast? Or did he float in and start shooting them? The former is a good feat of power. The latter...less so. Especially since I don't know how strong ninja are in that world.

Why? Lloyd could withstand the fall, but we can also say he survived it. Both can be used for the same conclusion. Lloyd was hit by something that could kill someone else, therefore by withstanding it or whatever reason he survived it.

Nope. o.o

Doesn't matter, the feat is for Lloyd who could withstand his powers single handed.
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And wow Tac. Lloyd's striking force is awesome! =D
And yeah Kratos is > Volt anyway and Lloyd defeated him.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Why? Lloyd could withstand the fall, but we can also say he survived it. Both can be used for the same conclusion. Lloyd was hit by something that could kill someone else, therefore by withstanding it or whatever reason he survived it.

Nope. o.o

Doesn't matter, the feat is for Lloyd who could withstand his powers single handed.
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And wow Tac. Lloyd's striking force is awesome! =D
And yeah Kratos is > Volt anyway and Lloyd defeated him.

Withstanding something is not the same as blocking it. Sora blocks a billion lasers from Xemnas at the end of KH2. So Sora is capable of surviving a billion laser blasts?

His power that we know managed to kill a fox, it's only real feat.

And Tac, thank you for giving us a good strength feat. It is better than Young Link chopping through trees. Still, GG Link should still be above him in terms of strength. And the durabilty feat was Young Link tanking big boulders falling down on him.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Withstanding something is not the same as blocking it. Sora blocks a billion lasers from Xemnas at the end of KH2. So Sora is capable of surviving a billion laser blasts?

His power that we know managed to kill a fox, it's only real feat.

And Tac, thank you for giving us a good strength feat. It is better than Young Link chopping through trees. Still, GG Link should still be above him in terms of strength. And the durabilty feat was Young Link tanking big boulders falling down on him.

He did both, though.

And destroy a village and kill ninja warriors along the way. Corrine doess't have to be powerful to be a good feat for Lloyd. I explained that, stop repeating yourself.

Ha ha. I told him to brought that up! =P
And yeah Link has only a lifting strenght feat with the GGs.

I still don't see Link getting a sword knocked out of his hand a durability feat.

And yeah Link has only a lifting strenght feat with the GGs

There is no such thing as lifting strength, only strength. Link threw the freakin' pillar, that ain't lifting. He's class 100+ and currently Lloyd would be reduced to a smear if hit by Link's sword and still lacks the means to hurt Link.

No, mate. You simply don't put the same strength to strike/break and lift. I have explained that. You guys only know how to repeat yourselves...? I accepted Link's striking feat despite that I know it's not from OoT. What do you want now?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No, mate. You simply don't put the same strength to strike/break and lift. I have explained that. You guys only know how to repeat yourselves...? I accepted Link's striking feat despite that I know it's not from OoT. What do you want now?

YouTube video
2:50 Link sticks his sword in Ganon's face Do you know how durable Ganon is?

This durable.
YouTube video
2:20

Well to be fair the Master Sword is Ganon's one weakness.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
He did both, though.

And destroy a village and kill ninja warriors along the way. Corrine doess't have to be powerful to be a good feat for Lloyd. I explained that, stop repeating yourself.

Ha ha. I told him to brought that up! =P
And yeah Link has only a lifting strenght feat with the GGs.

When did he survive getting hit by lightning, outside of gameplay?

He obliterated the village? And yes, she kinda does. Assuming she is like a regular fox, it would make the feat rather pathetic, since it did not kill her right off.

And you didn't bring it up because...?
Link has arm strength from the GGs.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
mmm So, you're suggesting Link simply has an impossibly over-developed back and there is no overlap whatsoever between his ability to lift and [b]throw hundreds of tons, and his ability to swing his sword? Both use overlapping muscle groups in his arms, shoulders, back, chest, and abdomen. 😐 Also, that striking feat is OoT Link at his weakest, without the ToC, want another striking feat for OoT Link?

2:50 Link sticks his sword in Ganon's face Do you know how durable Ganon is?

This durable. 2:20 [/B]

The gauntlets only enhances Link's arms' strength to be able to lift heavy stuff and there is no evidence it's a hundred of tons pillar. He wasn't strong enough to hold his sword in that first scene, was he? And what is the other video? I can see a castle being destroyed and then a guy in a horse. Can you explain? And if Ganon is weak to that sword then what that proves? Nothing of that proves Link would slash through solid rocks with his sword. On top of that, why you're using every Zelda game when Tac said this was Ocarina of Time? And my point still stands. You don't use the same strength to lift than to hit and break something. It's completely different.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
When did he survive getting hit by lightning, outside of gameplay?

He obliterated the village? And yes, she kinda does. Assuming she is like a regular fox, it would make the feat rather pathetic, since it did not kill her right off.

And you didn't bring it up because...?
Link has arm strength from the GGs.

He could withstand the force of two charged up bolts. He didn't tanked them with his body, just single handed. He survived it when someone else died.

No, I have explained why killing HER wasn't the feat. You cannot judge her appearance to say she's as weak as a normal fox. We simply don't know how strong she is. Volt killed more than Corrine with his powers either way. So what Lloyd did with two of his attacks was indeed impressive.

As for the intro's feat, I suggested it to Tac but he didn't want to bring it up yet.

The gauntlets only enhances Link's arms' strength to be able to lift heavy stuff and there is no evidence it's a hundred of tons pillar. He wasn't strong enough to hold his sword in that first scene, was he? And what is the other video? I can see a castle being destroyed and then a guy in a horse. Can you explain? And if Ganon is weak to that sword then what that proves? Nothing of that proves Link would slash through solid rocks with his sword. On top of that, why you're using every Zelda game when Tac said this was Ocarina of Time? And my point still stands. You don't use the same strength to lift than to hit and break something. It's completely different.

Are you being intentionally thick? They make him stronger, and not just for lifting, that is both impossible and illogical. Let's go ahead and invoke Occam's razor, as well as cite that immediately after lifting the pillar, Link throws it, turning a great feat into a ****in' incredible feat. Cite that he clearly lifted with his own power, and exertion, and even grunts. His legs are supporting that weight just fine. Just his arms, you say? Gee... And then afterward, Link goes into that tower of Ganon's and plays tennis with a 6-12 ton bolt of lightning. 😐 Let's not forget that prior to this Link was pushing enourmous stone blocks.

Ganon disarmed him because Ganon is stronger. The Triforce of Power doesn't **** around, boyo. 😐 Disarming Link doesn't make Link weak, it makes Ganon strong, it's a feat. It also proves Link's great durablity.

That video is relevant because Ganondorf is the same character. Ganon, the guy on the horse, in that scene if you watch it in full, gets hit so hard his castle explodes. He is unhurt, and kicks the shit out of Midna, taking her headdress as a trophy and crushing it in his hand infront of Link and Zelda.

This is akin to me kicking you in the nuts so hard your house explodes. Think about it. It's not using "every game", just Ganon, a single character and his relevant feats.

Also, there is MASSIVE OVERLAP in the muscles used to lift, throw, and shank. 😐 You are making such a ridiculous argument I cannot begin to explain it.

Also, Ganon isn't weak to the sword, the sword is strong against Ganon, an important distinction. Link is strong enough to jam that into Ganon's face.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
He could withstand the force of two charged up bolts. He didn't tanked them with his body, just single handed. He survived it when someone else died.

No, I have explained why killing HER wasn't the feat. You cannot judge her appearance to say she's as weak as a normal fox. We simply don't know how strong she is. Volt killed more than Corrine with his powers either way. So what Lloyd did with two of his attacks was indeed impressive.

As for the intro's feat, I suggested it to Tac but he didn't want to bring it up yet.

Well unless he tanked them, it doesn't matter. Someone else, Corrine anyway, died from the lightning itself, not the force.

Until proven otherwise, i.e you give me feats, I have no choice but to assume she is as strong as a normal fox. What Lloyd did with those attacks is block them, not survive them.

What could he possibly gain from waiting to bring it up?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
mariofacepalm Skull. Diet. Now. 😐

Are you being intentionally thick? They make him stronger, and not just for lifting, that is both [b]impossible and illogical. Let's go ahead and invoke Occam's razor, as well as cite that immediately after lifting the pillar, Link throws it, turning a great feat into a ****in' incredible feat. Cite that he clearly lifted with his own power, and exertion, and even grunts. His legs are supporting that weight just fine. Just his arms, you say? Gee... And then afterward, Link goes into that tower of Ganon's and plays tennis with a 6-12 ton bolt of lightning. 😐 Let's not forget that prior to this Link was pushing enourmous stone blocks.

Ganon disarmed him because Ganon is stronger. The Triforce of Power doesn't **** around, boyo. 😐 Disarming Link doesn't make Link weak, it makes Ganon strong, it's a feat. It also proves Link's great durablity.

That video is relevant because Ganondorf is the same character. Ganon, the guy on the horse, in that scene if you watch it in full, gets hit so hard his castle explodes. He is unhurt, and kicks the shit out of Midna, taking her headdress as a trophy and crushing it in his hand infront of Link and Zelda.

This is akin to me kicking you in the nuts so hard your house explodes. Think about it. It's not using "every game", just Ganon, a single character and his relevant feats.

Also, there is MASSIVE OVERLAP in the muscles used to lift, throw, and shank. 😐 You are making such a ridiculous argument I cannot begin to explain it.

Also, Ganon isn't weak to the sword, the sword is strong against Ganon, an important distinction. Link is strong enough to jam that into Ganon's face. [/B]

Umm... those are magic gauntlets. Link's legs does not necessarily have to support the weight of what he's lifting, as the gauntlets do the work. They do not enhance more than Link's arms. Yeah, he throws it too, but that's the same strength he used to lift it. Not the same he would use to break it. I never said Link was weak, I simply said he wasn't strong enough to hold the sword when Ganon attacked him. To be honest I don't know if it's a feat for Ganon to knock out Link's sword from his hand... after all Link isn't THAT physically strong, nor he was wearing the gauntlets. But whatever. I don't know why, but I never saw Ganon being hit by the castle... I just saw the castle being destroyed and then he riding on a horse. Can you point me out in what part of the video he got hit? As for the sword, Nephthys said is Ganon's weakness, I guess Tac told me about it too. And yeah, Link stabbed him with it, he's made of flesh after all no? So I don't know why he can't be stabbed. Again, I fail to see the relevance, that does not prove Link slashing through rocks. The best striking feat is slashing wood.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well unless he tanked them, it doesn't matter. Someone else, Corrine anyway, died from the lightning itself, not the force.

Until proven otherwise, i.e you give me feats, I have no choice but to assume she is as strong as a normal fox. What Lloyd did with those attacks is block them, not survive them.

What could he possibly gain from waiting to bring it up?

I guess he did tanked them, I'm not sure if he even uses his sword. Corrine was electrocuted when she touched it. Lloyd wasn't, he had resistance and could survive the force of two strong impacts.

That's an argument from ignorance fallacy, so no. We don't know about her. She's not important either. Many warriors died by Volt's power, Lloyd survived two of his attacks, by withstanding them. It's a great feat.

I have no idea, go ask him. ermm

Umm... those are magic gauntlets. Link's legs does not necessarily have to support the weight of what he's lifting, as the gauntlets do the work.

Yeah, he throws it too, but that's the same strength he used to lift it. Not the same he would use to break it. I never said Link was weak, I simply said he wasn't strong enough to hold the sword when Ganon attacked him. To be honest I don't know if it's a feat for Ganon to knock out Link's sword from his hand... after all Link isn't THAT physically strong, nor he was wearing the gauntlets. But whatever.

I don't know why, but I never saw Ganon being hit by the castle... I just saw the castle being destroyed and then he riding on a horse. Can you point me out in what part of the video he got hit?

As for the sword, Nephthys said is Ganon's weakness, I guess Tac told me about it too. And yeah, Link stabbed him with it, he's made of flesh after all no? So I don't know why he can't be stabbed.

The best striking feat is slashing wood.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
[B]Umm... those are magic gauntlets. Link's legs does not necessarily have to support the weight of what he's lifting, as the gauntlets do the work. They do not enhance more than Link's arms. Yeah, he throws it too, but that's the same strength he used to lift it. Not the same he would use to break it. I never said Link was weak, I simply said he wasn't strong enough to hold the sword when Ganon attacked him. To be honest I don't know if it's a feat for Ganon to knock out Link's sword from his hand... after all Link isn't THAT physically strong, nor he was wearing the gauntlets. But whatever. I don't know why, but I never saw Ganon being hit by the castle... I just saw the castle being destroyed and then he riding on a horse. Can you point me out in what part of the video he got hit? As for the sword, Nephthys said is Ganon's weakness, I guess Tac told me about it too. And yeah, Link stabbed him with it, he's made of flesh after all no? So I don't know why he can't be stabbed. Again, I fail to see the relevance, that does not prove Link slashing through rocks. The best striking feat is slashing wood.

You admit that the gauntlets increae Link's arm strength, but don't agree that he can use that strength to slash things? That's really rather odd. Why do you think slashing and lifting are so different? What about pushing objects?

YouTube video

0:12, for instance, and that's just the Silver Gauntlets, not Gold. Link is easy super strong, so why is it so hard to believe that he csn apply this strength to a sword strike? The two applications of strength are really not that different.

As for Ganon, his feat is knocking the sword from Link's grasp. Since Link was wearing the gauntlets at the time, Ganon had to overcome them. He was clearly stronger than Link in that instance. And you know what? Link blocked all that force using his sword, even if he lost it.

With the exploding castle, you can see Midna attacking at exactly 2:27. Both she and Ganon are still in the castle at this point. Then it cuts to outside and the castle explodes. Repeat: Ganon was inside while Midna attacked, and then the castle exploded. He was fine.

I guess he did tanked them, I'm not sure if he even uses his sword. Corrine was electrocuted when she touched it. Lloyd wasn't, he had resistance and could survive the force of two strong impacts.

So would anyone mind telling me how blocking a lightning bolt protects Lloyd from Link's sword? I mean, one is electricity, and the other is a very sharp chunk of god forged metal. Lloyd has a decent level of lightning resistence, but that's about it.

That's an argument from ignorance fallacy, so no. We don't know about her. She's not important either. Many warriors died by Volt's power, Lloyd survived two of his attacks, by withstanding them. It's a great feat.

Well, you're sort of doing the same thing. If you don't know how strong Corrine is, you can't call the bolt impressive. As for the warriors, we don't even know if Volt used the same attack on them. He might have had more time to charge up, or caught them by surprise or something. It might be a great feat, if we actually knew what it was he did.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I guess he did tanked them, I'm not sure if he even uses his sword. Corrine was electrocuted when she touched it. Lloyd wasn't, he had resistance and could survive the force of two strong impacts.

That's an argument from ignorance fallacy, so no. We don't know about her. She's not important either. Many warriors died by Volt's power, Lloyd survived two of his attacks, by withstanding them. It's a great feat.

I have no idea, go ask him. ermm

In what weird world is "blocking" an attack the same as tanking it? And I do believe he uses his sword and sheathes it quickly. And exactly. Corrine was electrocuted. She did not die by any force of the attack. Lloyd while blocking makes a completely different reaction. If he tanked it, he'd have been electrocuted as well.

No, that's me assuming based on what I know. If you want to convince me otherwise, you'll have to show me feats for Corrine. And again, he did not withstand them. He blocked them.

Nah.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Well, you're sort of doing the same thing. If you don't know how strong Corrine is, you can't call the bolt impressive. As for the warriors, we don't even know if Volt used the same attack on them. He might have had more time to charge up, or caught them by surprise or something. It might be a great feat, if we actually knew what it was he did.

This.

Edit: Just so it isn't lost.

YouTube video

1:36.

Hmmmmmmm, so apparently because Ganondorf's body is flesh, it can be stabbed so easily?

Damn son, better hope some random mugger with a knife never gets the drop on Superman! D:

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And Tac, thank you for giving us a good strength feat. It is better than Young Link chopping through trees. Still, GG Link should still be above him in terms of strength. And the durabilty feat was Young Link tanking big boulders falling down on him.

Okay, Link does survive big rocks falling on him... Still not durable enough to make a sword bounce off him, though. He still gets hurt if the rocks hit him and not the shield.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Video evidence was provided and it was explained why it is impossible for it [b]not to be a durability feat. Grab a baseball bat, try to stop a cannon ball, see what happens. This would be less lethal than what Link did. You've yet to explain why it wouldn't be, only made misguided claims that the sword swomhow wouldn't transfer any force back into Link, which is false.[/B]

I'm sure Link would feel the jolt, but he would loose grip before damage was done. If a force acts on something in your hand past where your hand can hold on, it let's go.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Try because hitting him so hard the castle around him explodes [b]doesn't hurt him at all. This is called a durability feat. Being made of flesh does not make you soft in fiction. You could shoot Ganon with the aforementioned 8MJ railgun and it'd bounce off his chest. The sword is designed to smite evil, Ganon is not designed to be smote by good, it's different.

No, it's splitting Ganon's face. Ganondorf's face is harder than steel. Shit, you could hit Ganondorf's face with a naval barrage and it'd come out of it unscathed. [/B]

That's slightly inconsistent. Ganon takes a sword through the gut, and not by someone with super strength. He can still be cut, just not usually killed. Takes a magic sword to do that. Like, say, the Master Sword?

Can't remember the reason but why is blunt resistance treated as blade resistance again?

Originally posted by TacDavey
Okay, Link does survive big rocks falling on him... Still not durable enough to make a sword bounce off him, though. He still gets hurt if the rocks hit him and not the shield.

Two things:

Link has a shield to block Lloyd's attacks, and a damn good one at that considering it can take boulders falling and be strong enough to block it.

It's more of a strength feat actually, though it certainly doubles to a certain degree.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Can't remember the reason but why is blunt resistance treated as blade resistance again?

Because fiction is incredibly stupid. Kinda like how Vegeta could stand there while Nappa destroys a city but then later on be scared as **** when Krillin points a sword at him.

So doesn't the fiction need to prove that both resistances are same in their verse?