Lloyd Irving vs Link

Started by ScreamPaste39 pages

Considering that Goku at that point was leagues above Frieza and Trunks this isn't really relevant. Goku's body was now > Frieza's.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. That so huh? It's too bad that Link doesn't have such feats like falling down a nigh-bottomless hole without injury, strapping a bomb to his face, or falling from over a thousand feet down to Earth in Majora's Mask. OH WAIT, HE DOES.

2. No. A normal man's tendons and ligaments would be annihilated, well actually he would probably be rendered unrecognisable after, but the point still stands. Take an aluminum baseball bat, and try to hit a moving train. Tell me how it goes.

3. Only Link has super strength, he always has, even before the gauntlets, to deny this will only further showcase your denial and inadequacy. He can be cut? Like in Wind Waker when Link's Master Sword did absolutely nothing, and in fact clanged off his skin? In fact, will show you the video.

YouTube video

Check 1:18.

The Master Sword, which, while weakened from its former power, still held enough magic to seal the bulk of Ganondorf's power, did NOTHING to him. So I think it is safe to say your claim that Ganondorf can still be cut, just not killed, is bullshit huh? Especially since it was a magic sword that Link attempted to cut him with.

Oh and how about this durability feat? In the fight in Wind Waker with Ganondorf, who has lost the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf at several points tanks attacks from the Master Sword, and even Light Arrows, which disintegrate almost every enemy in the game short of Ganondorf. He can even continue speaking with a sword stuck in his head, only being sealed.

No such things, stop using those terms please.

1. Whether they increase his whole body's strength or just his arm's is irrelevant. Since you know, he attacks and swings a sword with his arms. Also, I can lift a chair and toss it as well. I could also easily physically break one. So all you have really proved here is that you lack the sufficient strength to break a chair. It depends on what you lift. I can lift a diamond, but I cannot break it without a hammer, for instance. That said, that is not what ANYONE is saying. Link has shown to lift and throw something that weighs over 1,000 tons. That is more than the necessary physical strength required to break or cut through stone. Oh, and by the way, OoT Link has, in canon, cut and shattered steel. As in he does it every time he fights an Iron Knuckle, whose armor can be broken off with your sword. Ganondorf was in the castle when it exploded. If Ganondorf was not hit, that means he was fast enough to avoid it. So is a good feat for him either way. Also, the horse is obviously not natural.

YouTube video

Check about 3:45. First of all, the horse is clearly not normal in appearance, glowing eyes and shit. But then look what happens after Ganondorf falls. It... Disappears. Ganondorf has shown the ability to create life multiple times, he clearly created the horse for riding, since it basically appeared from nowhere. So no, the horse needed to tank nothing. And I already proved Link can shatter steel, kk.

I am disgusted with this. I had to stop listening to Freebird to look up those friggin videos.

Oh, and as for Vegeta and swords. Yajirobe is not a normal human, and the tail is the weak point of the Saiyans, always has been. Krillin is also not normal, and Vegeta was kind of, you know, nearly dead. 😐 So not valid as an example.

Originally posted by The Scenario
YouTube video

For evidence purposes.

About 12 seconds in, Link throws another pillar. I want everyone to note his position while doing this: Link crouches, grips the base of the pillar, and stands up. He stands up, of course, using his legs. While holding the massive pillar. So as we can see, Link's legs produce enough force to lift the pillar.

Also, please note that when Link threw the pillar, it broke. To rephrase that slightly: [b]Link broke the pillar with his bare hands. I believe that this establishes Link as strong enough to break stone without his sword, yes? With his sword, it should be cut.

And I just want to say that Ganondorf can make some really strong barriers to tank that flying pillar.

Point.

YouTube video

2:00 for Link breaking Nabooru's armor. [/B]


Important poasts.

edit

I'm fairly certain it was Freiza's recently recovered body with metal of unknown strength form. He was still heavily injured, they just stuck cyborg bits on him. And Trunks also easily took out Freiza's father, who would have been stronger than Freiza even before the metal bits.

The androids were stronger than Freiza, too, so yeah. DBZ isn't terribly good for this sort of thing, and I don't particularly think it needs to be here.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Considering that Goku at that point was leagues above Frieza and Trunks this isn't really relevant. Goku's body was now > Frieza's.

That same Goku also failed to survive a planet blowing explosion from a weaker opponent. 😮

Just so you guys can get it out of the way, let me say what Griever is likely to ahead of time...

"But you don't see Toon Link actually hit Ganondorf"

"I can throw a chair but I can't punch through it."

Etc, etc.

Back to the thread: Link still wins.

GoW Zeus.
KH Sora.
Street fighter/Tekken characters.
I think Bayonetta.
Raiden in Meta Gear.... 4?
Nearly all FF characters.
The Avatar.
Inuyasha.
Tons of other manga examples.

Have all taken heavy physical hits but still get stabbed, cut or shot by much weaker things compared to what they've taken as blunt force.

Originally posted by BloodRain
GoW Zeus.
KH Sora.
Street fighter/Tekken characters.
I think Bayonetta.
Raiden in Meta Gear.... 4?
Nearly all FF characters.
The Avatar.
Inuyasha.
Tons of other manga examples.

Have all taken heavy physical hits but still get stabbed, cut or shot by much weaker things compared to what they've taken as blunt force.

I'm sorry, I have already shattered this pitiful argument.

Although, for the sake of a good laugh, please provide examples of those you listed. 🙂

Ohlook, flawed examples from other fiction. >_>

It's a physical fact cutting someone with a sword is easier, this is due the force being spread over less area. So, no shit they can be hurt easier with something sharp. 😐 This doesn't equate at ALL to seperate "blunt and slashing" resistances.

The point is, durability is tied together. There are explicit exceptions as parts of certain character's power sets, such as Luffy or Wonder Woman, who I believe had her power retconned to not be so retarded.

If you drop a mountain on a character and he survives, you still need to have VERY high level strength to cut him with a bladed weapon.

And this has something to do with the thread how again....?

I think the only reason it was mentioned was because someone posted a video of Link cutting Ganon up to prove strength. Not that it matters because with or without it, Link is still stronger than Lloyd. 😬

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And this has something to do with the thread how again....?

I think the only reason it was mentioned was because someone posted a video of Link cutting Ganon up to prove strength. Not that it matters because with or without it, Link is still stronger than Lloyd. 😬

Very true, but when people make flawed arguments like seperate forms of physical durability I get irked. There's an xkcd comic about this.

"SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET!" or something. 😛

But yeah, Link is still too strong and durable too lose. -NOD OF THUNDER-

I'm bored. Finding things amuses me.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Two things:

Link has a shield to block Lloyd's attacks, and a damn good one at that considering it can take boulders falling and be strong enough to block it.

It's more of a strength feat actually, though it certainly doubles to a certain degree.

Because fiction is incredibly stupid. Kinda like how Vegeta could stand there while Nappa destroys a city but then later on be scared as **** when Krillin points a sword at him.

Noted.

Right. Obviously you can't expect developers to be consistent EVERYTIME. DBZ is riddled in inconsistencies. As is most video games that have more than one installation. They're only human. And I bet most of them do it even if they know they're doing it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Explain this to the Japanese man who losth is arm playing tug of war.

Ergo, you're wrong.

Whoa, Some guy got his arm taken off from tug of war? I need a link for that one.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Pardon me? Link has incredibly high level super strength. 😐

I'm not talking about Link. Ganon takes it through the chest by those light wizard guys and their magic sword. They didn't have super strength and that blade went right through him like butter. Also, Link didn't have the Golden Gauntlets in Twilight Princess, so he wasn't super strong at that point.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. That so huh? It's too bad that Link doesn't have such feats like falling down a nigh-bottomless hole without injury, strapping a bomb to his face, or falling from over a thousand feet down to Earth in Majora's Mask. OH WAIT, HE DOES.

Falling down a bottomless pit? Strapping a bomb to his face? WHat the crap are you talking about?

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. No. A normal man's tendons and ligaments would be annihilated, well actually he would probably be rendered unrecognisable after, but the point still stands. Take an aluminum baseball bat, and try to hit a moving train. Tell me how it goes.

Yes yes. Keep telling me to go run an experiment, that you know I will not be able to do, and pass it off as evidence.

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. Only Link has super strength, he always has, even before the gauntlets, to deny this will only further showcase your denial and inadequacy. He can be cut? Like in Wind Waker when Link's Master Sword did absolutely nothing, and in fact clanged off his skin? In fact, will show you the video.

There is no need. I know the video. I brought up the video in the FF8 vs Ganandorf thread. But Ganon gets cut by more than the Master Sword. The Megaton Hammer hurts him just fine in it's place. He also, like I said before, takes it right through the gut with the magic light sword.

Regardless, cutting him isn't a strength feat. Especially when you are cutting him with the Master Sword.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh and how about this durability feat? In the fight in Wind Waker with Ganondorf, who has lost the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf at several points tanks attacks from the Master Sword, and even Light Arrows, which disintegrate almost every enemy in the game short of Ganondorf. He can even continue speaking with a sword stuck in his head, only being sealed.

Gameplay mechanics. They can't have him die with one hit. That would be a boring fight. And anyway, I still don't see what this proves.

Whoa, Some guy got his arm taken off from tug of war? I need a link for that one.
Will a video do?
http://www.bofunk.com/video/3800/tug_o_war.html
I'm not talking about Link. Ganon takes it through the chest by those light wizard guys and their magic sword. They didn't have super strength and that blade went right through him like butter. Also, Link didn't have the Golden Gauntlets in Twilight Princess, so he wasn't super strong at that point.

Oh! You mean before Ganon received the source of his power? A totally irrelevant point. This is like comparing Goku as a child to Goku as a super saiyan.

And TP Link is actually just as strong, if not stronger, than OoT Link with the GG's, as they may even have been retconned. It's probable Link's superhuman strength comes directly from the ToC, regardless of where it comes from TP Link matches Ganondorf in a sword lock, and as a wolf stops Ganon's charging beast form.

Falling down a bottomless pit? Strapping a bomb to his face? WHat the crap are you talking about?
He's refering to Majora's Mask, when Link as a weaker child without his source of power straps the blast mask to his face. This mask can destroy solid rock, and yet Link's face is fine? That's impressive durability and it's Link at his weakest. The fall is probably during the intro, and falling from the sky at the end, when the moon is destroyed.
Yes yes. Keep telling me to go run an experiment, that you know I will not be able to do, and pass it off as evidence.
We do this because we know how it'll turn out. Physics dictates the outcome.
There is no need. I know the video. I brought up the video in the FF8 vs Ganandorf thread. But Ganon gets cut by more than the Master Sword. The Megaton Hammer hurts him just fine in it's place. He also, like I said before, takes it right through the gut with the magic light sword.

Regardless, cutting him isn't a strength feat. Especially when you are cutting him with the Master Sword.


Pardon me? Can you cite the megaton hammer actually doing more than knocking Ganon over? Regardless, this works against your argument, as it showcases Link as being strong enough to hurt someone who survives a castle busting attack unscratched.

The light sword which happened before Ganon got the ToP?

The Master Sword which was in Link's hand in that video? Are you implying it somehow ignores Ganon's incredible durability entirely? (It doesn't, this is proven at the end of WW when he speaks with it jammed in his face. It's never killed him, only sealed him and/or his power.)

Yeah, the sword smites evil, but you act as if it bypasses Ganon's durability, there's no evidence of that. Everytime Link has fought Ganon he's had super strength either through an item or the ToC.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Will a video do?
[url]http://www.bofunk.com/video/3800/tug_o_war.html[/url

According to the video the guy had the rope tied around his hand, and the expert mentions that the rope acted as a sharp edge, so that's hardly an apt comparison.

He speculates it may have happened, that man was obviously not on the scene. 😐

He also mentions the force on the rope.

It's also happened in Taiwan, and Germany.

"Unsuitable rope
In the German town of Westernohe 650 young scouts participated in a tug of war in 1995. When the rope broke, only 30 seconds into the tug, two children were killed and 102 participants suffered injuries. In the related court case the rope was judged to be unsuited for the event.[7]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tug_of_war The point is, your hand does not automaticly let go as soon as more force is applied to it than it can hold before that force is also applied to everything behind it.

'flawed examples from other fiction' of ones that follow the basic -swords hurt more then fists- thing.

Eh might as well, not like this thread has a point.
Goku had to charge his fingers to stop Trunk's blade [no idea if canon, manga is long] and him and the rest get cuts a from debris all the time.
Zeus' body >= Kratos', who can stab him without using full strength, full strength that was needed in his best durability feat.
Sora took the Groundshakers stomp to the face as a lion cub, can be stabbed with a keyblade.
Street fighter/Tekken characters.... long list but most take building++ damage, bullets and blades still get through most.
Cba with Bay
Raiden takes hits from metal gears and wasnt crushed by that ship, stabbed with little effort.
Nearly all FF characters.. self explanatory. Cloud and Vincent get hits from people and things way above their strength. Get stabbed and shot like any human. I know there's a Seph example in here, 'skyscraper' dura still getting stabbed.
The Avatar, a low one but superhuman when taking blows like from large rocks and human when taking blades.
Inuyasha, the guy gets smacked around hard and arrows still pierce him.
Sonic can take reentry, landing head first and survive among other things. Blades and bullets again.
A.Mercer, smacked around by Green and taking explosions when still getting shot and stabbed by a person.
Cba with the rest of random manga. Luffy and Wonder Woman as mentioned, Yusuke, Travis, Dante, Wesker maybe, Spider-man and many comic characters, any fictional animal (vampires, werewolfs, dragons etc) yadda yadda so on and so forth.

You give that mountain example like the fiction has to follow direct science. Kinda like how speed 'doesn't' add to a characters strength/force when it would irl.

So, the majority of your examples come down to "swords hurt more than fists", which is sort of a captian obvious. In no way do any of them outside of Luffy and MAYBE Wonderwoman have sperate levels of durability for slashing and blunt force.

Zeus is stabbed by Kratos, this doesn't equate to seperate durability.

DBZ while wildly "LOLOLOLSPLOSIONZVILLE" still represents this.

Aren't don't keyblades give their users super strength or something? This would kind of explain it, also can you cite an example? Never played KH.

Blades in MGS are typicly either vibrating super blades or monomolecular or something. 😐 Also, IIRC Vamp has super strength.

Inuyasha I don't much care or know about. So, meh.

Sonic kind of moves above his own terminal velocity as a hobby, re-entry is nothing. Can you show me a bullet or blade hurting him in the hands of someone without the sufficient strength?

Gameplay bullets?

Luffy's got an explained reason due to being a Rubber or whatever, Wonder woman's powers specificly mentioned this before, and I'm pretty sure it got retconned for being retarded.

Dunno who Yusuke is, Travis who? Dante's always been mostly regen, Wesker I can't think of any examples that help your argument, Spiderman doesn't suffer from this outside of having really strong enemies who OFCOURSE can hurt him with a blade.

None of this allows Lloyd to hurt Link, he's still nowhere near the required strength range.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ohlook, flawed examples from other fiction. >_>

It's a physical fact cutting someone with a sword is easier, this is due the force being spread over less area. So, no shit they can be hurt easier with something sharp. 😐 This doesn't equate at ALL to seperate "blunt and slashing" resistances.

The point is, durability is tied together. There are explicit exceptions as parts of certain character's power sets, such as Luffy or Wonder Woman, who I believe had her power retconned to not be so retarded.

If you drop a mountain on a character and he survives, you still need to have VERY high level strength to cut him with a bladed weapon.

Yes. Stabbed without full strength, needs that full strength to get to his best blunt feat so yeah, blades.

No idea what that means .___.

Was in KH1 where he was pretty weak even with it. Was when Sora stabbed himself in the heart.

Dunno if his blade is special or not but Vamps throwing knives posed a threat so it cant be his strength entirely. And bullets.

Nor do I but it counts.

Yeah but landing head first at that speed is something else. May find later but bullets pose a threat either way, think it was referenced in the anime aswell.

Cutscene

Then many other OP characters.

Screw yusuke. Touchdown. Savior, Nero and Beowulf=blunt force. Basic memory for Al and Spider-man gets shot and stabbed by humans... And the rest are all separate. They kinda point to a -if a character shows that a blade doesnt hurt, 'then' it doesnt- reasoning. Not the assuming way unless its painfully obvious for them.

Kratos did not use any strength for his best durability feat.

Did to stop the hand from crushing him.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Yes. Stabbed without full strength, needs that full strength to get to his best blunt feat so yeah, blades.

No idea what that means .___.

Was in KH1 where he was pretty weak even with it. Was when Sora stabbed himself in the heart.

Dunno if his blade is special or not but Vamps throwing knives posed a threat so it cant be his strength entirely. And bullets.

Nor do I but it counts.

Yeah but landing head first at that speed is something else. May find later but bullets pose a threat either way, think it was referenced in the anime aswell.

Cutscene

Then many other OP characters.

Screw yusuke. Touchdown. Savior, Nero and Beowulf=blunt force. Basic memory for Al and Spider-man gets shot and stabbed by humans... And the rest are all separate. They kinda point to a -if a character shows that a blade doesnt hurt, 'then' it doesnt- reasoning. Not the assuming way unless its painfully obvious for them.


Which comes down to the same: Swords are more effecitve, not seperate durability. 😐

Sora's obv strong enough to hurt himself. PRetty much every character is. Also, what a ridiculous thing to do. mmm

I cannot recall bullets ever being a threat to Sonic, but meh.

Post clip?
Not really, it's still from another fiction and without context is a pointless example. 😬 The arrows could be magic, or Inu's just not being hit very hard.

In the end, regardless, this is one of those "painfully obvious" situations. 😐 There is no seperate durability, some things just spread force over less area.

Link's withstood forces on a level where a ten tonner, even with an absurdly sharp blade, isn't hurting him.