Lloyd Irving vs Link

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Because this bothers me...

We see Midna attack, we know Ganondorf beat her, because he took her headdress. Ergo, Ganon was inside when the castle exploded.

He could have escaped in time. Link and the girl weren't inside too? We never saw what happened when the castle exploded other than seeing the castle exploding. We never see Ganon. Ok, you're assuming he stayed inside and exploded together with the castle, but many people could assume many things since no one knows what Ganon did. This is kind of similar to Volt destroying a village and killing people. My argument was not valid because we never see anything, but this is valid despite no seeing anything either and assuming stuff based off of hypothesis. I don't quite understand this. 😕

To be honest, the Triforce transcending the timeline is an uncomfirmed theory, but a dang good one. We know that because the timeline diverges with Link going back in time to warn everyone, Ganondorf's arrest would happen just before Link got the Master Sword in the original timeline. So the execution and pulling the Sword would happen at around the same time, just in different timelines.

The Sages considered TP Ganondorf getting the Triforce of Power to be a "divine prank." Meaning he didn't have it when they captured him. It's the simplest and most logical theory we have, and as far as I know it hasn't been outright stated to be true or false.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
He could have escaped in time. Link and the girl weren't inside too? We never saw what happened when the castle exploded other than seeing the castle exploding. We never see Ganon. Ok, you're assuming he stayed inside and exploded together with the castle, but many people could assume many things since no one knows what Ganon did. This is kind of similar to Volt destroying a village and killing people. My argument was not valid because we never see anything, but this is valid despite no seeing anything either and assuming stuff based off of hypothesis. I don't quite understand this. 😕

Science doesnt explain the spider-man one.

If a guy who takes class100 hits gets stabbed by a mook while another who can take a class1 hit is bulletproof ot shows theres a different gap for each.

Like when TPDorf got stabbed. I highly doubt that him without the triforce was no more durable then an average human :/

Ah so many LoZ theories, would it kill the makers to give a few solid hints to whats going on?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
He could have escaped in time. Link and the girl weren't inside too? We never saw what happened when the castle exploded other than seeing the castle exploding. We never see Ganon. Ok, you're assuming he stayed inside and exploded together with the castle, but many people could assume many things since no one knows what Ganon did. This is kind of similar to Volt destroying a village and killing people. My argument was not valid because we never see anything, but this is valid despite no seeing anything either and assuming stuff based off of hypothesis. I don't quite understand this. 😕

Just before Midna attacked, she teleported Link and Zelda outside. Ganon was still inside at this point. The difference is that we see Midna facing Ganon, then Midna attacking, then it cuts to outside and the castle exploding. We see that Ganondorf has Midna's helmit, which she still had while attacking, which indicates that Ganon was close enough to take her helmit after the attack. The only thing we didn't directly see happen is Midna hitting Ganon, but evidence shows that he was still inside when the attack happened.

If a guy who takes class100 hits gets stabbed by a mook while another who can take a class1 hit is bulletproof ot shows theres a different gap for each.

Why does Ganon without the ToP have to have human durability? He had a sword TK'd into him, and into the stone behind him. It's still moot because he's less durable here than he is later.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Just before Midna attacked, she teleported Link and Zelda outside. Ganon was still inside at this point. The difference is that we see Midna facing Ganon, then Midna attacking, then it cuts to outside and the castle exploding. We see that Ganondorf has Midna's helmit, which she still had while attacking, which indicates that Ganon was close enough to take her helmit after the attack. The only thing we didn't directly see happen is Midna hitting Ganon, but evidence shows that he was still inside when the attack happened.

Hmm... the scene itself is really confusing, at least for me. When the castle explodes, Ganon immediately appears riding a horse and completely in a different form. When all of that happens? It's not like he was riding the horse and coming from that direction. The castle is really far away from that place. I'm sure he teleported somehow.

He definitely teleported, but he was still inside the castle when the attack that destroyed it, Midna's, happened.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, it shows PIS, or that the writer did not do the research, period. There is not excuse for this kind of thing other than specific weaknesses. Link doesn't have one. Assuming one is retarded.

Why does Ganon without the ToP have to have human durability? He had a sword TK'd into him, and [b]into the stone behind him. It's still moot because he's less durable here than he is later. [/B]

Yeah it's usually best to debate characters with thier high end feats. Wether durability, strength speed etc. Things happen in fiction all the time that usually don't make sense and are there only to add a sense of drama or suspense to the scenario at hand.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Falling down a bottomless pit? Strapping a bomb to his face? WHat the crap are you talking about?

Yes yes. Keep telling me to go run an experiment, that you know I will not be able to do, and pass it off as evidence.

There is no need. I know the video. I brought up the video in the FF8 vs Ganandorf thread. But Ganon gets cut by more than the Master Sword. The Megaton Hammer hurts him just fine in it's place. He also, like I said before, takes it right through the gut with the magic light sword.

Regardless, cutting him isn't a strength feat. Especially when you are cutting him with the Master Sword.

Gameplay mechanics. They can't have him die with one hit. That would be a boring fight. And anyway, I still don't see what this proves.

2. But by your own claims the bat would simply fly out of your hands and you would be fine, so why the hesitation? 🙂

3. Ironic how you bring up Ganondorf getting cut, and then mention the Megaton Hammer. Also, it does nothing more than reel him back, it cannot truly hurt him. Oh yes, thank you for reminding me. You claim that the Sages, who have no physical strength, were able to cut Ganondorf just fine. Not only is this before Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power, but looking at the video ScreamPaste posted, you can clearly see... None of them are physically wielding it. 😐 Seriously, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, go way now. If you are still under the impression Ganondorf is so easily cut or stabbed, you are in denial.

4. Well no, not with the Master Sword. It's a good thing Link has so many other good strength feats huh? 🙂

5. Oh look boys and girls, someone doesn't know what a game mechanic is!

YouTube video

Check 2:55. We see clearly that Ganondorf tanking Light Arrows is scriped and canon. GG. Why does it matter? It's a durability feat.

Originally posted by TacDavey
What? When did it say he didn't have his power?

Yet needs metal boots to wrestle Gorons. Is Ganon weaker than Gorons? It's an inconsistency.

The Mask is gameplay mechanics. It's been some time since I played Majora's Mask. Video's for the other two?

No he hasn't. He didn't have super strength in Wind Waker. The thing that made the difference between fight one and fight two was nothing more than the Master Sword getting it's power back.

2. Man, you are worth a laugh. Do the Iron Boots make Link physically stronger? Answer that.

3. Crying gameplay mechanics is a sign of a feeble argument. Since it does hurt him, but does not kill him. Scenario provided one of the videos, I shall provide the other.

YouTube video

Watch from the beginning until at least 1:40 in, you see Majora's Mask's destruction cause the moon itself to be destroyed/Whatever, and then Link wakes up, knocked out briefly from the collision with the ground, but not really injured. Your move.

4. Man, you really have no idea what you are talking about, huh? Since Link gets Power Bracelets in WW that allow him to toss huge boulders. And Ganondorf is still portrayed as physically much stronger, but that is in of itself irrelevant.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I was told that the yellow thing is Ganon, right? Okay. Thing is, we never see if he actually gets hit by the castle or not, the other characters gets teleported outside, maybe Ganon teleported too somehow. He just appears with the horse, well, the scene.

So yeah. I am winning.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Yeah, but Lloyd pulled the sword out and slashed them, that's why his sword is behind and not in front. He would have to put his sword in front and then parry the attacks in order to fully block them. He didn't though. He counter-attacked with a quick sword maneuver, even his position indicates that he in fact performed an slash.

Or Lloyd pulled the sword out and blocked it, hence why it looks the way it does when it connects with him. And, he'd have to put his sword in front of it to slash it as well so...And his position really doesn't indicate anything, except we can't see shit.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You didn't get it at all, right? If a thunder falls and kills a cat, then another one falls on me and I effortlessly withstand its force, would you say it was unimpressive just because it killed a cat? I wouldn't. Because killing the cat wasn't impressive. The feat it's mine for withstanding the thunder, that IS the impressive part. The cat is unimportant. Either way, deflecting Volt's attacks single handed with ease just as Lloyd did is indeed a good feat taking into account that Volt's pretty powerful. Saying that Lloyd required of NOTHING to take on two of Volt's attacks is just plain illogical.

I'd say poor cat, right before I pulled out my keyblade, healed it, and then proceeded to pummel you for not defending the cat. You know why I can do this? Because surviving electrocution means nothing unless someone you fight actually uses lightning. Lloyd blocks lightning with his sword, so he does not have electrocution protection. And the lightning did not send Corrine flying so it clearly does not carry much force behind it. It's a good feat for reaction but that is it. /Discussion.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
And according to Tac a character named Kratos is > Volt. And Lloyd defeated Kratos by himslef, which means Lloyd > Kratos > Volt. If that is true, then we should leave that scene as Lloyd would be capable of defeating Volt by himself without problems.

Oh, the good ol' power scaling method. How flawed it can be at times. Shadow Link is pretty tough, but Ganondorf is tougher. Link can beat Ganondorf, so Link>Ganondorf>Shadow Link?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You provided a good strength video there. That is what I needed. He lifted a pillar, tossed it and it made it broke against that wall. I believe Link would be able to punch rocks while wearing the GGs now. I concede the point for the evidence shown.

Nah, Link is clearly just lifting. /chidish.

Originally posted by BloodRain
'flawed examples from other fiction' of ones that follow the basic -swords hurt more then fists- thing.

Eh might as well, not like this thread has a point.
Goku had to charge his fingers to stop Trunk's blade [no idea if canon, manga is long] and him and the rest get cuts a from debris all the time.
Zeus' body >= Kratos', who can stab him without using full strength, full strength that was needed in his best durability feat.
Sora took the Groundshakers stomp to the face as a lion cub, can be stabbed with a keyblade.
Street fighter/Tekken characters.... long list but most take building++ damage, bullets and blades still get through most.
Cba with Bay
Raiden takes hits from metal gears and wasnt crushed by that ship, stabbed with little effort.
Nearly all FF characters.. self explanatory. Cloud and Vincent get hits from people and things way above their strength. Get stabbed and shot like any human. I know there's a Seph example in here, 'skyscraper' dura still getting stabbed.
The Avatar, a low one but superhuman when taking blows like from large rocks and human when taking blades.
Inuyasha, the guy gets smacked around hard and arrows still pierce him.
Sonic can take reentry, landing head first and survive among other things. Blades and bullets again.
A.Mercer, smacked around by Green and taking explosions when still getting shot and stabbed by a person.
Cba with the rest of random manga. Luffy and Wonder Woman as mentioned, Yusuke, Travis, Dante, Wesker maybe, Spider-man and many comic characters, any fictional animal (vampires, werewolfs, dragons etc) yadda yadda so on and so forth.

You give that mountain example like the fiction has to follow direct science. Kinda like how speed 'doesn't' add to a characters strength/force when it would irl.

2. I am not sure what you are referring to. Kratos and Zeus are roughly as physically powerful, and both have managed to harm eachother bare-handed, let alone with blades, let alone with blades as awesome in power as the Blade of Olympus.

3. Dude, he did not stab himself with the Keyblade, he unlocked his Heart. There is a vaguely homoerotic reason for that. Oh, and Keyblades have magical cutting powers beyond that of normal blades. Context is everything, and a Keyblade is a powerful weapon.

4. Examples please? Sufficiently powerful characters in SF cannot be harmed by bullets at all, basically anyone Juri/Evil Ryu level or up. People below that level are generally not as strong. As for Tekken, Jin kind of took getting shot in the face. And by a bunch of other people. 😐 The fact that he did not die at all is pretty impressive, and Tekken power output is not as high as SF. Although I will admit Bryan Fury's presence adds a sort of inconsistency to the series.

5. Stabbed with little effort by Vamp, who is shown to be physically a match for Raiden.

6. Cloud was shot by a magic bullet... And they get stabbed by people at or above them in power.

7. Avatar I do not care to address.

8. Show me Inuyasha getting injured by normal arrows wielded by human beings. They break on his skin IIRC, as do their swords. I am admittedly ashamed that I know that.

9. Specific Sonic example?

10. He was shot once in the beginning of the game when he was weaker, and once when he allowed the General to believe he was that Colonel.

11. Luffy is made of rubber, and as such blunt forces cannot really harm him. Yusuke? When? If that is true, that is a massive inconsistency, and not the rule. Dante has always been mostly regen. Wesker does not have particularly high durability in general, tbh. Too lazy to address other examples.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, what a ridiculous thing to do. mmm

He did so in the hope to get Kairi's panties. He admittedly does not think most of the time.

Wesker doesn't have high durability in general? 😐 The man was shot in the face with bullets and RPG's and fell into lava out of an airplane into a volcano where he was completely unharmed. 😐

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He did so in the hope to get Kairi's panties. He admittedly does not think most of the time.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Wesker doesn't have high durability in general? 😐 The man was shot in the face with bullets and RPG's and fell into lava out of an airplane into a volcano where he was completely unharmed. 😐

RE-RAIL

So, have we established that Link hitting Lloyd at least once will kill him?

I totally botched that post.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
If I am correct in guessing his age, then GOOD ON HIM. 😎 If I'm wrong. Well. I'm slightly less enthused but, good for him.

Damnit, man, let's not pull this thread further off track haermm

14. And yeah, good for him. Sadly, Sora forgot the most improtant part of stabbing yourself through the chest with a crazy powerful weapon: You die.

Originally posted by The Scenario

[B]RE-RAIL

So, have we established that Link hitting Lloyd at least once will kill him? [/B]

Depends where he'd hit him I think, but yeah, Link is far stronger. Hard part will be getting the little bugger to sit still. Lightning reactions and better speed than Link makes for a nuisance. Still, Deku Nut.

I still support Link as a lightning timer, not that it particularly matters in this case, because he can't be hurt so he has all day to catch Lloyd, and can slow down time. Plus, yeah, Deku nut.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Wesker doesn't have high durability in general? 😐 The man was shot in the face with bullets and RPG's and fell into lava out of an airplane into a volcano where he was completely unharmed. 😐

Way to nitpick my post, you clearly lack a real argument. 🙂