Originally posted by Desaad
No, he isn't. He doesn't have anywhere near the versatility that Hal Jordan does, and many more limitations. He's also not nearly as powerful on a raw scale, regularly getting shown up by top tier strength characters like gladiator, incapable of shield himself from even the photosphere of the sun, etc.The whole point of Quasar was that he would be a more realistic take on the Green Lantern formula. More everyman, less fearless, and with more logical power restraints, vs the Green Lantern 'wishing ring'.
Within the electromagnetic spectrum, absolutely. Anyone outside of it, though, is essentially immune to his advances.
Laughable, honestly, given their respective track records against top flight foes.
Nova could potentially get a couple over MM, but he's significantly less powerful and less versatile than Martian Manhunter. It's hard to give him the fight on any grounds -- neither on paper nor based on their respective track records.
what you mentioned was partially true in the begining of his series.
Quasar's only limitation was his inexperience with the bands.
You say he doesn't have raw power and you bring the Gladiator instance as an example which is an instant where quasar specifically stated he didn't use the bands full power to restrain him. and then you use another low showing for his shields. Anyway I'm not gonna turn this into a wendel respect thread but someone who has stoped blasts from Watchers and Galactus and has gone toe to toe with Surfer, Firelord and Maelstorm has more than enough raw power to deal with a lantern.
As for him being able only to drain the EM spectrum, again that was only in the begining of his series. Draining sound, power cosmic, zero energy etc prove otherwise. Baring magic and darkforce the Qbands candrain/manipulate virtually any energy source
Originally posted by Warlord
As for him being able only to drain the EM spectrum, again that was only in the begining of his series.
Do you have an issue number where they explained how he was able to absorb energy outside the EM Spectrum?
Draining sound
When did this happen?
power cosmic, zero energy etc prove otherwise.
Do you have proof the power cosmic and zero energy aren't in the EM spectrum according to Marvel? Because when Jack and Quasar fought, Jack grabbed Quasar's arms and was "pumping gigavolts of power into the bands" and Quasar had to get him off him.
"Gigavolts of power" is a dead give-away.
Baring magic and darkforce the Qbands candrain/manipulate virtually any energy source
Darkforce, magic, psionics, weak force, kinetic energy, Dr Spectrum's from Squadron Supreme energy, etc....
Originally posted by zopzop
Do you have an issue number where they explained how he was able to absorb energy outside the EM Spectrum?When did this happen?
Do you have proof the power cosmic and zero energy aren't in the EM spectrum according to Marvel? Because when Jack and Quasar fought, Jack grabbed Quasar's arms and was "pumping gigavolts of power into the bands" and Quasar had to get him off him.
"Gigavolts of power" is a dead give-away.
Darkforce, magic, psionics, weak force, kinetic energy, Dr Spectrum's from Squadron Supreme energy, etc....
Annihilation. He draws energy from Bill Surfer Glads etc.
He drained a star (a star's explosion is not just em energy)
etc
Sound - Klaw
Do you have proof that Zero energy IS part of the EM spectrum?
Example of him having problems with the weak force? (and please let it not be from his firs issues)
Originally posted by Warlord
what you mentioned was partially true in the begining of his series.
Quasar's only limitation was his inexperience with the bands.
While it's true that experience/inexperience had something to do with his limitations at the beginning of his career, this was not the case with electromagnetic spectrum energy drain. That was a specific property of the bands themselves, as Mark Gruenwald himself elucidated upon in his Quasar 'bible'.
What you're talking about first had to do with travel speed (which he eventually got around by learning Quantum Jumping) and then by the limitations of Quantum Jumping (at first hew as unable to jump in-atmosphere, eventually figured out how to make constructs to get around that).
You say he doesn't have raw power and you bring the Gladiator instance as an example which is an instant where quasar specifically stated he didn't use the bands full power to restrain him.
You'll have to provide a quote from that, or I'll look it up myself. He couldn't even get Gladiator to LET GO OF HIM, much less restrain him. Gladiator was destroying everything he (Quasar) through at him by FLEXING. He was literally helpless, and had to be saved by a whisper in Gladiator's ear from Black Bolt.
And he never mentioned not trying to restrain him with everything he had.
and then you use another low showing for his shields.
Well, it says something about the nature of the bands. He was specifically unable to survive being that close to a sun -- something repeated by Phyla Vell, incidentally, in the recent Guardians of the Galaxy run.
Anyway I'm not gonna turn this into a wendel respect thread but someone who has stoped blasts from Watchers and Galactus
Okay, but energy manipulators have shown the ability to stop and hurt both, (Red Hulk and Lunat!k have both done similar to a Watcher) and that was a particularly low showing for Galactus (who has, under similarly low showings, by laid low by The Thing).
and has gone toe to toe with Surfer, Firelord and Maelstorm has more than enough raw power to deal with a lantern.
Well, Maelstrom and Quasar were both all kinds of altered and powered up when they went at it, hardly indicative of what his normal abilities were, and while he did pretty well against the Surfer, he was on the losing end of that one even before he started throwing the fight.
Quasar might be capable of dealing with 'a' random lantern, but at their bases a Lantern is going to be much more powerful and much more versatile than a Quantum Band user is going to be, and Hal is certainly the best Green Lantern wielder we've yet seen. Even if you think the same about Wendell -- he's certainly the best character to have the bands long term, but I think the implication was that some of the earlier band wielders like Stigian Starbender were better -- he's still going to be put at a vast, vast disadvantage.
As for him being able only to drain the EM spectrum, again that was only in the begining of his series. Draining sound, power cosmic, zero energy etc prove otherwise. Baring magic and darkforce the Qbands candrain/manipulate virtually any energy source
Quasar didn't drain power cosmic. He drained some aspect of the Surfer's energies, which is just star/stellar energy for the most part. I have no doubt that he could do that under almost any circumstances. Same stuff that Superman absorbs (which is, in fact, electromagnetic energy). The Power Cosmic itself is what Surfer possesses, what gives him his powers. If Quasar had been absorbing that, than Surfer would have been powerless (see vs Doom).
Zero Energy is likewise 'zero point energy', and just a manner of generating normal electromagnetic energy. Feel free to read the original arc by John Byrne.
He couldn't drain extra dimensional energies, and it's not an issue of Quasar/Wendell being unable to do so -- the bands don't have control over those energies.
And he said it over and over again. When he came up against Anti Matter in issue 34, he made it clear that he couldn't absorb it and he couldn't contain it. "Something my bands have no control over". When Kismet offerred to try to do something about it, he said "Since YOUR cosmic power is part of the same ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM I CONTROL, it probably wouldn't do anything anyway..."
Examples such as these abound.
Originally posted by Warlord
[B]Annihilation. He draws energy from Bill Surfer Glads etc.
PIS. He's never drained magic or psionics before. Barring an explanation on how he all of a sudden has this ability, I'll chalk this up to PIS.
He drained a star (a star's explosion is not just em energy)
etc
Which incident are you referring to here? It can't be the one from the "Journey into Mystery" arc because all he did was channel energy from a solar flare or something and that even strained him badly. Unless you are referring to something else, then I'll have to ask what issue did that take place in.
Sound - Klaw
When? Not the "Acts of Vengeance" tie in in Quasar. Because he just encased Klaw in a vacuum and sound (Klaw is living sound waves)
can't exist in a vacuum. He didn't drain anything. PS this no longer works vs Klaw.
Do you have proof that Zero energy IS part of the EM spectrum?
Did you look up what "gigavolt" means?
Example of him having problems with the weak force? (and please let it not be from his firs issues)
Yes vs Half Life. Too bad you don't like the fact that it's from his earlier issues. Now do you have an example of Quasar affecting or having control over Weak Force? What issue did this take place in?
Do you have an issue explaining that Quasar now can affect Weak Force? What issue is it?
Originally posted by Desaad
While it's true that experience/inexperience had something to do with his limitations at the beginning of his career, this was not the case with electromagnetic spectrum energy drain. That was a specific property of the bands themselves, as Mark Gruenwald himself elucidated upon in his Quasar 'bible'.What you're talking about first had to do with travel speed (which he eventually got around by learning Quantum Jumping) and then by the limitations of Quantum Jumping (at first hew as unable to jump in-atmosphere, eventually figured out how to make constructs to get around that).
You'll have to provide a quote from that, or I'll look it up myself. He couldn't even get Gladiator to LET GO OF HIM, much less restrain him. Gladiator was destroying everything he (Quasar) through at him by FLEXING. He was literally helpless, and had to be saved by a whisper in Gladiator's ear from Black Bolt.
And he never mentioned not trying to restrain him with everything he had.
Well, it says something about the nature of the bands. He was specifically unable to survive being that close to a sun -- something repeated by Phyla Vell, incidentally, in the recent Guardians of the Galaxy run.
Okay, but energy manipulators have shown the ability to stop and hurt both, (Red Hulk and Lunat!k have both done similar to a Watcher) and that was a particularly low showing for Galactus (who has, under similarly low showings, by laid low by The Thing).
Well, Maelstrom and Quasar were both all kinds of altered and powered up when they went at it, hardly indicative of what his normal abilities were, and while he did pretty well against the Surfer, he was on the losing end of that one even before he started throwing the fight.
Quasar might be capable of dealing with 'a' random lantern, but at their bases a Lantern is going to be much more powerful and much more versatile than a Quantum Band user is going to be, and Hal is certainly the best Green Lantern wielder we've yet seen. Even if you think the same about Wendell -- he's certainly the best character to have the bands long term, but I think the implication was that some of the earlier band wielders like Stigian Starbender were better -- he's still going to be put at a vast, vast disadvantage.
Quasar didn't drain power cosmic. He drained some aspect of the Surfer's energies, which is just star/stellar energy for the most part. I have no doubt that he could do that under almost any circumstances. Same stuff that Superman absorbs (which is, in fact, electromagnetic energy). The Power Cosmic itself is what Surfer possesses, what gives him his powers. If Quasar had been absorbing that, than Surfer would have been powerless (see vs Doom).
Zero Energy is likewise 'zero point energy', and just a manner of generating normal electromagnetic energy. Feel free to read the original arc by John Byrne.
He couldn't drain extra dimensional energies, and it's not an issue of Quasar/Wendell being unable to do so -- the bands don't have control over those energies.
it's hard to replay in this manner.
I'll summarize (some points at last-too lazy to go through all this).
- he did mention he wasn't giving it all against gladiator (check it and see for yourself)
-he has other showings in addition to the galactus one (watcher, group of people including hulk herc, etc...) so let us not lowball
- the sun thing seems funny since has effortlessly drained stars getting hurt by the aura of one seems nothing more than bad writing. Plus phyla=/= Wendel
- I would like the scan of the Zero Energy explanation as part of the em spectrum
- Quasar in Annihilation was SPECIFICALLY mentioned to siphon energy from Surfer, Nova, Bill Glads etc... Saying he just drained em energy is pure speculation.
-Maelstorm and Quasar have fought before the instance you mention (the powered up fight)
- You actually think the distance between Hal and Wendel is vast. I don't. after all seeing how many times in the past someone have drained a power ring I maintain the opinion that Quasar can do it (IIRC Dr light has done the same). Anyway each with his opinion I guess
Originally posted by zopzop
PIS. He's never drained magic or psionics before. Barring an explanation on how he all of a sudden has this ability, I'll chalk this up to PIS.Which incident are you referring to here? It can't be the one from the "Journey into Mystery" arc because all he did was channel energy from a solar flare or something and that even strained him badly. Unless you are referring to something else, then I'll have to ask what issue did that take place in.
When? Not the "Acts of Vengeance" tie in in Quasar. Because he just encased Klaw in a vacuum and sound (Klaw is living sound waves)
can't exist in a vacuum. He didn't drain anything. PS this no longer works vs Klaw.Did you look up what "gigavolt" means?
Yes vs Half Life. Too bad you don't like the fact that it's from his earlier issues. Now do you have an example of Quasar affecting or having control over Weak Force? What issue did this take place in?
Do you have an issue explaining that Quasar now can affect Weak Force? What issue is it?
you are right on klaw. that's the case I was talking about.
the star thing was from another book -i'll have to check it
Ok for now. I'll have to see more from the new book he features until then I suppose you can call his latest feats pis
Originally posted by Warlord
it's hard to replay in this manner.
I'll summarize (some points at last-too lazy to go through all this).
- he did mention he wasn't giving it all against gladiator (check it and see for yourself)
I'll check it, but I remember him being DESPERATE to get him off, and that wouldn't explain why he needed Black Bolt to come and save him.
-he has other showings in addition to the galactus one (watcher, group of people including hulk herc, etc...) so let us not lowball
I'm not lowballing, I'm contextualizing. Gruenwald was clearly creating a more 'realistic' cosmic crimefighter in quasar. That was his mission statement. He didn't want a fearless testpilot who got a wishing ring based on the strength of his will and his pure spirit. He wanted a normal, soft spoken everyman who got a weapon based on hard scientific theory.
- the sun thing seems funny since has effortlessly drained stars getting hurt by the aura of one seems nothing more than bad writing. Plus phyla=/= Wendel
He has never effortlessly drained stars. That is a lie. The best he did was once blast out something that was supposed to be as bright as a star, which is incredibly different. GL's have had blasts that could be seen for lightyears too.
Quasar's SHIELDS are clearly not up to the task of a sun. Tough titties and all that. Meanwhile rookie GL's frolic through the cores of suns like they are nothing more than a spring shower (literally, that is the narration).
- I would like the scan of the Zero Energy explanation as part of the em spectrum
That's cool, you're welcome to look it up, just as you are requiring me to look up the Gladiator reference.
- Quasar in Annihilation was SPECIFICALLY mentioned to siphon energy from Surfer, Nova, Bill Glads etc... Saying he just drained em energy is pure speculation.
No, it's using what we know about the character and extrapolating from out there. Nova, Bill, Gladiator, Surfer...all have some electromagnetic component to their powers. Bill's part machine, Nova's powers are cosmic in nature, Glad's heat/atomic vision, Surfer's stellar energies...
-Maelstorm and Quasar have fought before the instance you mention (the powered up fight)
Not when they were both at 'normal' base levels.
- You actually think the distance between Hal and Wendel is vast. I don't. after all seeing how many times in the past someone have drained a power ring I maintain the opinion that Quasar can do it (IIRC Dr light has done the same). Anyway each with his opinion I guess
I KNOW it's vast, because I've seen the relative versatilities and scales that they both work at. You'll never see Quasar destroy or move a planet, hold together the continents of Earth, TRAVEL light speed, manipulate matter, replicate psionics, increase his physical strength directly (the one person to do that has now been retconned as using synthetic bands), alter genetics/biology, travel through or stop time. All of these are things that a competent Green Lantern can/will do.
Just checked the Quasar/Gladiator confrontation myself...
Yes, the initial 'holding him back' that Gladiator flexed out of was only 'pretty darn strong' and not at 'maximum strength', that is true, but he also makes it clear that the NEXT time he faces Gladiator he WILL be using maximum strength, and the next time he faces him...is just a few panels later. So the thing Gladiator casually flexed out of, not maximum strength constructs.
But Quasar desperately trying to get Gladiator to let go of his arm? His arm being crushed through his aura by a one handed Gladiator? The spikes that Quasar desperately projected from his bands into Gladiator's hands to get him off?
That would all, by the structure of the scene, have been at 'maximum' strength, and he STILL needed Black Bolt to come save him on one occasion, then lockjaw to come save him because Black Bolt's whisper in the ear trick wasn't enough!
He was getting worked, and worked hard.
Originally posted by DesaadAnd he said it over and over again. When he came up against Anti Matter in issue 34, he made it clear that he couldn't absorb it and he couldn't contain it. "Something my bands have no control over". When Kismet offerred to try to do something about it, he said "Since YOUR cosmic power is part of the same ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM I CONTROL, it probably wouldn't do anything anyway..."
Thank you, thank you! This is what I was looking for! I should feel stupid though, it's part of the "Fire in the Sky" story which showed Binary's true power. I loved that issue and should have known that quote was there.
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- I would like the scan of the Zero Energy explanation as part of the em spectrum
It was implied in the fight, "he's pumping gigavolts of power directly into the Bands".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigavolt
The volt (symbol: V) is the SI derived unit of electromotive force, commonly called "voltage".
It's in the EM spectrum.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
And I still have trouble seeing Nova, physically, being on Superman (MM) level.
On a raw power/energy scale I'm ignorant of the extent of MM's energy levels, but Nova's are off the scale and I can't imagine mm has more then the entirety of the Nova Force.
I say team two.
Stick Quasar on MM and have him light his arse up with fire - from the sun as he did when he tapped into a star when he fought the Rogue Watcher. Quasar is immune to psi as well.
Have Rich take on Hal using Grav. Rich's shields should be sufficient to protect him long enough until Quasar comes over to help. Or for that matter what if Nova unloads a super ultra heavy grav beam on him? GL can't resist that much gravity can he?
Or, stick Quasar on Hal - and Quasar could just dump and trap Hal in the Quantum Zone. I can't recall, but in that Gladiator fight you all mention, Quasar said, previous to that, that he wouldn't do that anymore? I think that's right. So he changes his mind and does it. Anyway, Quasar's will power has been shown to be greater than Surfer's and Beta Ray Bill's (Star Masters) - so I would say an even match at least. Plus, Q's shields are pretty darn powerful as his constructs have been shown to withstand practically all the heavy hitters in the Marvel U.
Does GL's ring fall under the electromagetic spectrum? Not sure, as it is the "emotional spectrum" - has this ever been touched upon in GL?
If Quasar has the ability to drain his ring - fight's over.
Regarding Quasar absorbing and using others powers - he is not a leech and cannot just suck it up. It has to be fired at him and then the bands drain the source. In his battle against the Surfer, he was draining Surfer of the Power Cosmic (as it does lie within the electromagnetic spectrum) - however Quasar could barely dent the Surfer. Say using a straw to drain a firehose for example. Of course, Quasar was forced to lose etc.
Nova vs MM would be interesting. Again, Nova has psi-shielding as well. How would the gravity of a black hole effect the MM's ability to stay coherent and form solid? I'm not that up on my MM - but he seems the weaker link. So I give it to #2!
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From what was shown in Blackest Night, I don't think it's been explicitly stated that the Emotional Spectrum was outside the regular EM spectrum and not EM wavelengths in as much as the source of the spectrum draws from the energy of life itself, moreover specific emotional expressions represent wavebands within the spectrum.
Plus, iirc, Dr. Light and Tangent Superman had no problems manipulating the energy, so I see no reason as to why the Q-bands or someone like Captain Atom or Firestorm wouldn't be able to manipulate the energy.
Originally posted by illadelph12
From what was shown in Blackest Night, I don't think it's been explicitly stated that the Emotional Spectrum was outside the regular EM spectrum and not EM wavelengths in as much as the source of the spectrum draws from the energy of life itself, moreover specific emotional expressions represent wavebands within the spectrum.Plus, iirc, Dr. Light and Tangent Superman had no problems manipulating the energy, so I see no reason as to why the Q-bands or someone like Captain Atom or Firestorm wouldn't be able to manipulate the energy.
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