Originally posted by dadudemon
Sorry for the triple post but this needs to be separate:Prometheus is now he most successful "Alien" movie in the franchise: both domestically and internationally.
Did they adjust for inflation? Cos $131,060,248.00 in 1986 would be 274,813,968.01 in 2012.
We do not know when they came to earth and started influencing humanity. We do know, however, that it goes as far back as 30,000 years ago.
Which is why I'm only stating what we do know. Hence the 30,000 year figure. It may be longer...But we don't know.
That's all speculation. There is also the possibility that it was a warning to the humans against the Aliens, as some of speculated.
In the section you quoted I never said anything about it being a warning or an invitation. Only that the engineers influenced humans to draw the constellations or that they drew them themselves.
My speculative money is on your last example: they told us about it in some way and we chronicled/documented it.
Plausible given the simplicity...but we don't actually know. Hence the either/or.
Humans develop intersteller, FTL, travel. Humans find those various things. Humans put together the common thread and two scientists speculate that it was an invitation (and they are both woefully and pitifully optimistic when even their financier is not). So the two scientists get funding to visit the constellation AFTER some gravimetric data indicates that one of the planets in the star system has, POTENTIALLY, orbiting moons that MUST be able to support life (gigantic leaps of faith...but the evidence of extraterrestrial influence on the various art findings is overwhelming which makes their conclusion not entirely baseless nor unscientific).
Agreed.
We do, actually. It was being terraformed to be suitable for human-like life. Worst case-scenario: it was being terraformed for the engineers. Best case scenario: it was being terraformed for a cohabitative planet for both humans and Engineers.
Yet both of those explanations are entirely speculative...It may have been for something else entirely...We simply don't know.
Not really. A change like that could literally occur, overnight (excluding travel time between their homeworld or nearest majorly colonized planet). No lengthy change required.
That would depend on the significance of the planet before the engineers decided to kill off humans. It may have been a populated paradise (paradise is something Scott has mentioned in relation to what the humans are going looking for).
Based on the fact that it was due to the killing of Jesus, we know the exact reason, we know that the relations soured then, and that it probably took them a couple of decades to change the direction of the planet to a military installation (IF that was the plan, all along).
That's not a fact though. That's a speculation. And in my opinion an awful one.
I agree. The engineers lost a lot of interest in the planet, for some odd reason. That's another actual plothole that I would like explored (pun intended). Why did they just stop giving a **** about the installation when it failed?
True...You'd think in 2000 years they couldn't went and found out why the hell these engineers tasked with wiping out humans were doing their ****ing jobs.
Anyway...given the way we've debated in the past this could go on and on...And I don't give enough of a shit about KMC to put in the effort anymore. So I didn't like it for what I see as problems with the plot and no guarantee of them ever being explained and you like it because you don't see the issues I pointed out as being a problem and are hopeful they will be explained.
Originally posted by jaden101
Which is why I'm only stating what we do know. Hence the 30,000 year figure. It may be longer...But we don't know.
No, you stated "The engineers come to Earth and from 30,000 years ago begin to influence human development."
What you stated, here, is speculation. Hence why I stated this:
"We do not know when they came to earth and started influencing humanity."
Here is the correct statement concerning that particular topic:
We do know that it (the influence of the Engineers) goes as far back as 30,000 years ago.
Originally posted by jaden101
In the section you quoted I never said anything about it being a warning or an invitation.
Clarifying this is completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the section you are quoting. Posting that implies that I posted that you stated that it was a warning or invitation. I did not do that: I simply called out your post for what it was: speculation. I then gave an alternate speculative theory to show that it isn't just "two" things to which it can be narrowed down.
Originally posted by jaden101
Only that the engineers influenced humans to draw the constellations or that they drew them themselves.
You actually avoided what I said of this subject, altogether:
"That's all speculation on your part."
Originally posted by jaden101
Plausible given the simplicity...but we don't actually know. Hence the either/or.
That was my way of disagreeing with you saying that they, the Engineers, made the "cave-drawings". The humans made the cave-drawings in their own languages and forms, not the engineers.
Originally posted by jaden101
Agreed.
You had better. estahuh
Originally posted by jaden101
Yet both of those explanations are entirely speculative...It may have been for something else entirely...We simply don't know.
I never stated that those two reasons were not speculation. They are worded in a way that makes them speculation. I stated what "we know" and then speculated on the implications of "what we know". That's pretty much my formula throughout my post.
Originally posted by jaden101
That would depend on the significance of the planet before the engineers decided to kill off humans. It may have been a populated paradise (paradise is something Scott has mentioned in relation to what the humans are going looking for).
Not really. Keep in mind that the section of my post you quoted was me telling you that, yes, they could have changed the purpose of the planet (it's actually a moon) almost overnight and THEN later I tell you that they had decades to change the purpose of the planet.
Here is what you said that I disagreed with:
"This would also mean that they would've had to begin to change the purpose of the planet prior to 2000 years ago..."
If you want to be literal and say, "Well, overnight is still prior to '2000 years ago'": fine. But your implications are that they started changing the purpose of the planet long before their launching of ships against the humans.
Originally posted by jaden101
That's not a fact though. That's a speculation. And in my opinion an awful one.
It's a fact confirmed in interviews with both Scott and Lindleof: get over it. And, to twist and paraphrase the words of Lindelof, you'd have to be an idiot to not make the connection to Jesus.
Originally posted by jaden101
True...You'd think in 2000 years they couldn't went and found out why the hell these engineers tasked with wiping out humans were doing their ****ing jobs.
I speculated on the reason, already, though: if they are like humans, then they have different classes of humans. Military arm of the Engineers may have just up and abandoned it stating it a "military asset total loss and not worth recovering."
There's tons of reasons why a military arm would abandon a campaign to wipeout a planet of species that they created.
Originally posted by jaden101
Anyway...given the way we've debated in the past this could go on and on...And I don't give enough of a shit about KMC to put in the effort anymore.
I will never relent, obviously. 🙂
Originally posted by jaden101
So I didn't like it for what I see as problems with the plot and no guarantee of them ever being explained
Some are explained within the film but you did not realize they were. Some were explained in interviews. Some were left unanswered on purpose for a sequel. Some were sh*t writing.
Originally posted by jaden101
and you like it because you don't see the issues I pointed out as being a problem and are hopeful they will be explained.
Some of the things you pointed out ARE issues and problems. Some aren't, however. And, yes, I am hopeful that the next film or even the one after that will answer most to all of the questions I have.
No, you stated "The engineers come to Earth and from 30,000 years ago begin to influence human development." What you stated, here, is speculation. Hence why I stated this: "We do not know when they came to earth and started influencing humanity." Here is the correct statement concerning that particular topic: We do know that it (the influence of the Engineers) goes as far back as 30,000 years ago.
Semantics. Stop being petty or I'll come over to yank land and slap you like the little ***** you are. 🙂
Clarifying this is completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the section you are quoting. Posting that implies that I posted that you stated that it was a warning or invitation. I did not do that: I simply called out your post for what it was: speculation. I then gave an alternate speculative theory to show that it isn't just "two" things to which it can be narrowed down.
It isn't speculation to say that they were either drawn by humans or drawn by engineers. Unless you're willing to say that maybe elfs or pixies or dung beetles drew them or they manifested out of thin air.
What is speculation is to say whether it was a warning or an invitation...I never said either in the section you quoted...
And what I said is completely relevant to the section I was quoting because you were the one mentioning it possibly being a warning whether it was others speculating or not.
You had better.
SHUT IT, *****!
I never stated that those two reasons were not speculation. They are worded in a way that makes them speculation. I stated what "we know" and then speculated on the implications of "what we know". That's pretty much my formula throughout my post.
And I was avoiding speculation as it's leading to circular and boring zzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
It's a fact confirmed in interviews with both Scott and Lindleof: get over it. And, to twist and paraphrase the words of Lindelof, you'd have to be an idiot to not make the connection to Jesus.
That'll be the interview when he said it was considered and rejected cos it was too "on the nose" as he put it.
So SHUT IT, *****!
I speculated on the reason, already, though: if they are like humans, then they have different classes of humans. Military arm of the Engineers may have just up and abandoned it stating it a "military asset total loss and not worth recovering." There's tons of reasons why a military arm would abandon a campaign to wipeout a planet of species that they created.
Or it could've been the engineer equivalent of Al-Qaeda...Or they could've been all the engineers that are left in the universe. Or it could've been BOOBIES.
Contrary to what your ego tells you, your speculations are not the be all and end all.
Mine are though.
I will never relent, obviously.
And look what happened to Rorschach.
Originally posted by jaden101
This is a movie that invites you to ponder the reason for existence with a fictional origin of the human race from extraterrestrial beings and it also features traveling across the galaxy. Either go read some science journals (if you want scientific accuracy) or enjoy the film for what it is, ya schmuck.
Originally posted by jaden101
Semantics. Stop being petty or I'll come over to yank land and slap you like the little ***** you are. 🙂
Not semantics when you are making a point to me. But, you're more than welcome to come over to Yank land and slap me. Be sure and bring some of those hot female redheads you keep in commando-kilt land.
Originally posted by jaden101
It isn't speculation to say that they were either drawn by humans or drawn by engineers.
Yes it is. It could have been a hoax perpetuated by a "third kind". We were not shown who drew it. We only know that they were there and that the scientists within the film interpreted them in a specific way.
Originally posted by jaden101
Unless you're willing to say that maybe elfs or pixies or dung beetles drew them or they manifested out of thin air.
Even worse: something that has not been divulged to the viewer.
Hell, it could have been an android. Mwhahahahahaha.
Originally posted by jaden101
What is speculation is to say whether it was a warning or an invitation...I never said either in the section you quoted...
You say this as though I implied or directly stated you said that about what you stated in your post. Doesn't make sense for you to even clarify that point.
Originally posted by jaden101
And what I said is completely relevant to the section I was quoting because you were the one mentioning it possibly being a warning whether it was others speculating or not.
No, it's not relevant at all: you cannot clarify a point that you made, that I argued against, when you did not make that point and I did not argue against it. It is unnecessary, irrelevant, posting. All it does it clutter up the conversation and the thread.
It would like me clarifying, to you, that I never stated David takes dumps. Makes no sense, man.
Originally posted by jaden101
SHUT IT, *****!
Never. Sober is my middle name..
Originally posted by jaden101
And I was avoiding speculation as it's leading to circular and boring zzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
No, the speculation does not lead to circular reasoning or conversation. It usually ends as soon as someone mentions it because there is nothing to contradict the theory...unless the person's speculation is malformed.
Originally posted by jaden101
That'll be the interview when he said it was considered and rejected cos it was too "on the nose" as he put it.
No, that's a different interview I am referring to. I am referring to the one where the interviewer asks Lindelof what the significant of the 2000 years are and Lindelof slily smiles and says, "I'm pretty sure you can guess." Then he proceeds to directly confirm it.
Basically, you'd have to be an idiot to miss it.
I only have to use Scott's interview, where he confirms that same exact thing, to show that both of them are in agreement over that particular plot point.
Originally posted by jaden101
So SHUT IT, *****!
Never. Sober is my middle name..
Originally posted by jaden101
Or it could've been the engineer equivalent of Al-Qaeda...Or they could've been all the engineers that are left in the universe. Or it could've been BOOBIES. Contrary to what your ego tells you, your speculations are not the be all and end all.
Mine are though.
It's difficult for me to accept that my ego prevents me from accepting my speculation as fact when I stated things like this, already: "There's tons of reasons why a military arm would abandon a campaign to wipeout a planet of species that they created."
It very well could have been boobies.
Originally posted by jaden101
And look what happened to Rorschach.
He just went about unrelenting in the wrong way: he should have pretended to relent and then picked it back up, covertly.
Oh, wait, he did almost that. mwhahahaha. Thank you 'diary released to the press postmortem"
Y'know I think Ridley failed big time with Prometheus.
I think the high expectations of "revisiting" the Alien-verse was his downfall.
This is one movie where you cannot separate the plot-holes from the contradictions & i really don't think a sequel will get the budget to be made or for that matter explain everything clearer.
Originally posted by Kazenji
What David said to the engineer
David: "This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life."
Engineer: ~rips David's head off and beats Weyland to death with it~
Awesome.. 😂
Even worse: something that has not been divulged to the viewer.
A PLOT HOLE....THERE ISN'T ANY OF THOSE.
unless the person's speculation is malformed.
Like yours.
"There's tons of reasons why a military arm would abandon a campaign to wipeout a planet of species that they created."
So the tonnes of reasons is the speculation?...or the military arm?...or both...exactly.
It very well could have been boobies.
If it's the military it usually is...
I really hope we get to see female engineers...GIANT WHITE BOOBIES.