Let's get one thing straight;
the chi amping that guys like Rand, and Shang Chi use is a derivative of their MA skill... some people in Marvel use that skill to alter themselves in various ways as well, amping themselves into "trained superhumans".
Members of the Hand have become adept at sucking the minds out of victims with energy, turning their skin into bulletproof organic steel etc.
Elektra has a number of telepathic abilities that she trained for.
Techniques like the silent scream are "simple" in her opinion.
Ogun's superhumanhood is completely attributed to him by his ability in his MA skill, his immortality, possession techniques, and ability to bypass pain and injury are all from training.
Guys like SS and Wolverine with augmentations just compound upon that...
Though in Wolverine and Cap's cases in particular, their skill is nearly on a level of their own with or without powers.
Sensei IS living Chi, who can also heal himself.
Judomaster has trained to the point where she can't be hit by another opponent.
Karate Kid uses super karate (dumb) to amp his physical stats and destroy anything in his past.
Shiva has used a Chi move to bring back someone from the dead.
I-Ching also has some chi abilties as well.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Sensei IS living Chi, who can also heal himself.Judomaster has trained to the point where she can't be hit by another opponent.
Karate Kid uses super karate (dumb) to amp his physical stats and destroy anything in his past.
Shiva has used a Chi move to bring back someone from the dead.
I-Ching also has some chi abilties as well.
That's very true. Marvel and DC both have top class martial artist.
Originally posted by jinzin
Again with the whiny bullshit.While it may be common practice (and even expected) for you to chime into threads where you have next to no utter idea as to what you're talking about... Me? When I give an opinion it's typically informed.
When I'm giving an opinion that isn't, I typically admit that outright...
That a complete and utter nonsense. For starters you got a whole shit load of stuff incorrect in Steve vs Frank Castle thread, not sure if I should bother responding to your post since I found out that its purely h2h, obvoulsy your going to make a big deal about that.
Other points in that thread are moot since I'm now giving Frank the majority but if I wanted to I could reply to your post just to show you how you got so many points wrong.
Originally posted by jinzin
But with this thread in particular.... My opinion is not fact and I'm not saying that it is as your crybaby bullshit would have people believe, but it IS based on facts... like Cap being surrounded by a higher calibur of MA's in Marvel (compared to DC) and STILL being heads and shoulders above them, Cap having better showings against tougher opponents who are not holding back, Cap having multiple statistical advantages physiologically, an edge in experience, etc etc...The notion that BT wins is based off what?
I've been VERY polite in asking for one friggin reason to assume that BT would win this fight... I haven't been given one.. just conjecture that he's more skilled because he's beaten up Batman Pre Crisis and took it to a trashed up Deathstroke, after blindsiding him while DS wasn't invested in the fight... It's not convincing in the least....
And you? Pathetic as usual.... As Srank already called your fairy butt out on. You cry at us for thinking we're right but you automatically ALWAYS assume we're wrong... even in threads where you supposedly agree with us.
You STILL come in like a little prat to argue against me just for argument's sake. Your obsession with me is the stuff of legend.Me? I just think it's funny..... "Im in your head!" 😈
Look the only reason why you're being polite is because I nipped it in the bud. Any money at this moment you would be calling MK a fanboy not only that you started lowballing BTs fight with DS its what you do all the time.
Don't act like your opinions fact? Wanna start a Crossbones vs Punisher thread? Hell if I wasn't so busy I might even go battlezone.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Sensei IS living Chi, who can also heal himself.Judomaster has trained to the point where she can't be hit by another opponent.
Karate Kid uses super karate (dumb) to amp his physical stats and destroy anything in his past.
Shiva has used a Chi move to bring back someone from the dead.
I-Ching also has some chi abilties as well.
👆
Saying Marvel has better martial artists than DC is bs.
Originally posted by Bentley
👆Saying Marvel has better martial artists than DC is bs.
👆 However I think the argument being made is that Marvel are not only highly skilled at MA they have enhancements as well, and that makes them better. However it can still be argued that some DC MAs are so skilled that they can compensate for lack of enhancement.
Originally posted by tkitna
Whatever. I dont care enough to break the whole thing down. I took from it a DS that wasnt trying to kill BT.
Well this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is a perfect example of people using logic to criticise other peoples posts and not realising it applies to their own arguments.
1. BT wasn't trying to kill him either.
2. Using that logic 90% of feats are not allowed. Most heroes don't kill.
Originally posted by tkitna
He fought just hard enough to not be caught and it bit him in the rearend. He talked to BT throughout the fight like he was his friend.
Again if he had got caught he would have got killed. Does DS want to die? Even if he was his friend that doesn't mean he won't beat the crap out of him in order to escape.
Originally posted by tkitna
The knife was used as an example. One to tell Ben he sucked at being a mercenary and two to show him he was serious enough at not being caught to actually use it.
Wait you're actually trying to argue that he pulled out a knife to show him he sucked at being a mercenary? I don't know about you but I think he pulled it out because he didn't want to get caught and die. Even if DS was holding back:
DS with a knife holding back =/= DS not holding back with bare hands.
Originally posted by tkitna
I dont know, it doesnt appear to me that Slade was fully into that fight. Do you think he gave 100%?
You could argue it was 98% because he was trying to find a way out, but thats not enough for it not to be used as proof. Also there is similar situation with DS vs Batman and Batman got creamed twice.
Originally posted by tkitna
Regardless, nothing in that fight will change the fact that Rogers takes a majority.
Well for starters it could be argued that DS > Cap and Batman is more skilled than Cap.
Originally posted by jinzin
Hold his own? Without gadgetry, he loses an overwhelming majority just like BT does.
Acting like your opinion is fact. It could be 6/10 Cap.
Originally posted by jinzin
Breifly before being beaten, just like BT. 😐
Acting like your opinion is fact.
Originally posted by jinzin
No it really doesn't... It's not up for debate.
Thank you for illustrating my point.
Originally posted by jinzin
What? The context of what the pages of the fight alone proves, states and suggests? They're posted two pages ago... read them... I know reading isn't your strong point but give it a shot.
Stop making personal insults and back up your point.
Originally posted by jinzin
Not wanting to be taken in doesn't equate to going all out on someone who may need to use as a tool....
I don't know about you but I thought the reason why he picked up the tool was because he needed an advantage in the fight. This shows how tough BT is not how crap DS is. DS also picked up the tool because he got hurt early in the fight.
Originally posted by jinzin
The fact that he picked up a tiny boxcutter off the ground doesn't really do much for me to ignore the context of the rest of the issue... but I actually READ the words too...And it's me that cherry picks.. lol.
Yes the irony of that statment is that you are now accusing me of doing the exact same thing you just did. You might as well be arguing that DS is a moron, you might think it was a tiny boxcutter but obvoulsy DS thought it was good enough to use as a weapon.
What DS thinks > What you think.
Originally posted by jinzin
😂What a ****...
I never said he was a fanboy... though he's certainly not doing himself much justice in this thread.. what I said was that he can't bring up one clear distinct advantage to this debate for BT...
You probably were going to. You keep nitpicking feats he won't be able to prove shit.
Originally posted by jinzin
How is that not civil? How is that not fair?How?
Because we can give you multiple advantages that are clear and straight forward for Cap. 😐
You can argue that BT is more skilled than Cap.
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah, but that's because you don't read comics.
Yea stating your opinion like its fact again. I've been reading Cap comics for ages, hell I contributed to the Cap respect thread for crying out loud.
Originally posted by jinzin
What do I need to prove? That he's whipped assess on people with the SSS?
unskilled brutes.
Originally posted by jinzinBeat 20 foot versions of himself?
I think I know the instance you're talking about. I'm not sure if he was exactly the same.
Originally posted by jinzin
Stalemated people like Logan, pounded on Spidey?Seriously?
He stalemated people like Logan? He lost and so would BT. Didn't you argue that he was starving and heavily sleep deprived once? Why are you assuming Spiderman > BT. Well Iron Spidey is but Cap had studied his style.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Sensei IS living Chi, who can also heal himself.Judomaster has trained to the point where she can't be hit by another opponent.
Karate Kid uses super karate (dumb) to amp his physical stats and destroy anything in his past.
Shiva has used a Chi move to bring back someone from the dead.
I-Ching also has some chi abilties as well.
Sensei is an old man who while skilled, lacks the stamina to fight for more than a minute.
I'm pretty sure Judomaster is a metahuman, I don't think we should speculate her aversion field is the result of training.
Shiva had a one time only dues ex machina ability that took her a year to prepare that she can never use again.
Has I-Ching done anything in continuity other than spar with Nightwing?
Originally posted by Deadline
That a complete and utter nonsense. For starters you got a whole shit load of stuff incorrect in Steve vs Frank Castle thread, not sure if I should bother responding to your post since I found out that its purely h2h, obvoulsy your going to make a big deal about that.Other points in that thread are moot since I'm now giving Frank the majority but if I wanted to I could reply to your post just to show you how you got so many points wrong.
😂
right because I'm the only one who thinks Steve has a skill advantage, that Punisher can't capitalize on a damage soak advantage, and that Steve wins.. it's JUST ME... 🙄
Originally posted by Deadline
Look the only reason why you're being polite is because I nipped it in the bud. Any money at this moment you would be calling MK a fanboy not only that you started lowballing BTs fight with DS its what you do all the time.Don't act like your opinions fact? Wanna start a Crossbones vs Punisher thread? Hell if I wasn't so busy I might even go battlezone.
WHAA?! LOL!
I'm being polite in asking for proof from MK.... You on the other hand... I'll insult your ass all day because you don't deserve any better...
Not really sure what you think starting a Punisher vs. Crossbones thread is going to do...
in a h2h Crossbones will take the majority, with weapons, it could fall to Punisher... Not really that hard and a COMPLETE tangent to why he got brought up in the first place you asinine little prick.
Originally posted by Deadline
Acting like your opinion is fact. It could be 6/10 Cap.
Answer the SIMPLE QUESTION:
How does Batman or Bronze Tiger beat someone who is their peer and superior in skill AND their superior in EVERY. physical. way?.....
Answer the f*cking question.
Originally posted by Deadline
Stop making personal insults and back up your point.
I'm not going to repost something that's already been posted and pinpoint every panel of the fight in excruciating detail FOR YOU... learn to read, or learn context... That's been your problem since day one so I don't expect you to fix it today but whatever... You're the single most willfully ignorant ass wipe on this forum that I've ever met, it's constantly outstanding to me how you can carry on so utterly oblivious.
Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know about you but I thought the reason why he picked up the tool was because he needed an advantage in the fight. This shows how tough BT is not how crap DS is. DS also picked up the tool because he got hurt early in the fight.
And that IS NOT what I was talking about... I mean not wanting to be arrested doesn't mean that DS was going all out on someone (BT) who he needed to use as a tool to prove his innocence, escape, etc... BT could have been invalueable to him if he had listened to Deathstroke's case, a fact that DS even reflects on.... the whole concept of which immediately brings a shade of grey on the fight from the get go nevermind the other context...
But this... this retarded nonsense... me having to explain to you that he could have used BT as a "tool" and that I wasn't referencing the boxcutter..... Proves EVERYTHING I've ever criticized you for in terms of your pathetic and atrocious reading comprehension issues.. How the hell could ANYONE expect you to understand the multiple underlining plot points in any given hero fight?
Originally posted by Deadline
Yes the irony of that statment is that you are now accusing me of doing the exact same thing you just did. You might as well be arguing that DS is a moron, you might think it was a tiny boxcutter but obvoulsy DS thought it was good enough to use as a weapon.What DS thinks > What you think.
You mean like the fact that BT is someone who he didn't want hurt?
You mean like the fact that he references BT as a valuable resource in helping him prove himself?
You mean like the fact that BT is someone he respects and actually attempted to save from being killed?
No YOU mean whatever YOU say whenever YOU say it context be damned!
Someone else already explained to you the context of the boxcutter in the fight, you ignored it then too..
Originally posted by Deadline
You probably were going to. You keep nitpicking feats he won't be able to prove shit.
😂
So you're going to attack me off of your own presumptions instead of what's actually happened?
hysterical
Just like how you "interpret" comics to have been an indication of something OTHER than what actually happened.
You are such a clown... I mean idiotic, ENDLESSLY entertaining... Every time I think you couldn't be any more ridiculous or hypocritical you out-do yourself yet again... It's gotta be hard work.
I'm the one nitpicking? You ignored an entire context of fight for your assertion that the DS fight proves something in BT's favor... it's absurd.
Originally posted by Deadline
You can argue that BT is more skilled than Cap.
Based. On. What?
It "CAN" be argued that Cap's more skilled than Tiger, and in fact has been argued in this entired thread due to multiple reasons aforementioned.
But what CLEAR and DISTINCT advantages does BT bring to this fight?
It's not a hard question to answer AT ALL.
Originally posted by Deadline
Yea stating your opinion like its fact again. I've been reading Cap comics for ages, hell I contributed to the Cap respect thread for crying out loud.
Which makes you an expert right?
Originally posted by Deadline
unskilled brutes.I think I know the instance you're talking about. I'm not sure if he was exactly the same.
He stalemated people like Logan? He lost and so would BT. Didn't you argue that he was starving and heavily sleep deprived once? Why are you assuming Spiderman > BT. Well Iron Spidey is but Cap had studied his style.
Yeah, he fought Logan to a brief stalemate.
Ah, so you acknowledge to importance of context now? Funny you don't seem to mind those outside circumstances when referencing the DS fight. 😐
Well that's a Spidey that Cap has trounced.. twice.
Originally posted by Deadline
You could argue it was 98% because he was trying to find a way out, but thats not enough for it not to be used as proof. Also there is similar situation with DS vs Batman and Batman got creamed twice.
I just went back and read it again. Upon first site of the scans I didnt feel Slade was into the fight, but I guess he was. He did say he wasnt going to let BT take him in. I didnt catch that the first time. Whatever, i'll concede that point.
Well for starters it could be argued that DS > Cap and Batman is more skilled than Cap.
Could be argued is true, but that will never be my opinion.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Sensei is an old man who while skilled, lacks the stamina to fight for more than a minute.I'm pretty sure Judomaster is a metahuman, I don't think we should speculate her aversion field is the result of training.
Shiva had a one time only dues ex machina ability that took her a year to prepare that she can never use again.
Has I-Ching done anything in continuity other than spar with Nightwing?
I was talking about the other Sensei. An obscure character.
Read JSA All-Stars. Judomaster stated it's her own will to prevent anything from hitting her.
Shiva also did an awesome move just recently. I belive in BOP.
Not sure about I-Ching, but he did levitate.
Originally posted by jinzin
Answer the SIMPLE QUESTION:
How does Batman or Bronze Tiger beat someone who is their peer and superior in skill AND their superior in EVERY. physical. way?.....Answer the f*cking question.
I'm not really sure what you want me to do.
I need to highlight the panel that has BT blindsiding DS?
The panel of him pointing out that DS is hurt?
The panel of DS struggling to stand on a balcony?
The multiple panels of converstation of DS trying to reason his way out of the situation or the one where he flat out states he might need BT for help?I'm not going to repost something that's already been posted and pinpoint every panel of the fight in excruciating detail FOR YOU... learn to read, or learn context... That's been your problem since day one so I don't expect you to fix it today but whatever... You're the single most willfully ignorant ass wipe on this forum that I've ever met, it's constantly outstanding to me how you can carry on so utterly oblivious.
Someone already explained to context of that action to you.. you ignored it then too.
And that IS NOT what I was talking about... I mean not wanting to be arrested doesn't mean that DS was going all out on someone (BT) who he needed to use as a tool to prove his innocence, escape, etc... BT could have been invalueable to him if he had listened to Deathstroke's case, a fact that DS even reflects on.... the whole concept of which immediately brings a shade of grey on the fight from the get go nevermind the other context...
But this... this retarded nonsense... me having to explain to you that he could have used BT as a "tool" and that I wasn't referencing the boxcutter..... Proves EVERYTHING I've ever criticized you for in terms of your pathetic and atrocious reading comprehension issues.. How the hell could ANYONE expect you to understand the multiple underlining plot points in any given hero fight?
You mean like the fact that BT is someone who he didn't want hurt?
You mean like the fact that he references BT as a valuable resource in helping him prove himself?
You mean like the fact that BT is someone he respects and actually attempted to save from being killed?No YOU mean whatever YOU say whenever YOU say it context be damned!
Someone else already explained to you the context of the boxcutter in the fight, you ignored it then too..😂
So you're going to attack me off of your own presumptions instead of what's actually happened?
hystericalJust like how you "interpret" comics to have been an indication of something OTHER than what actually happened.
You are such a clown... I mean idiotic, ENDLESSLY entertaining... Every time I think you couldn't be any more ridiculous or hypocritical you out-do yourself yet again... It's gotta be hard work.
I'm the one nitpicking? You ignored an entire context of fight for your assertion that the DS fight proves something in BT's favor... it's absurd.
Based. On. What?
It "CAN" be argued that Cap's more skilled than Tiger, and in fact has been argued in this entired thread due to multiple reasons aforementioned.
But what CLEAR and DISTINCT advantages does BT bring to this fight?
It's not a hard question to answer AT ALL.
Which makes you an expert right?
Yeah, he fought Logan to a brief stalemate.
Ah, so you acknowledge to importance of context now? Funny you don't seem to mind those outside circumstances when referencing the DS fight. 😐
Well that's a Spidey that Cap has trounced.. twice.
Jinzin, the problem is that Bronze Tiger's fight with Slade does prove something. It proves how formidable Bronze Tiger is. How and why you can't see that, I can't fathom.
You seem to not take into consideration that Slade is a meta-human.
Comic books are like story broads for movie scripts. You can "SEE" the action without dialog or the pictures moving, and still get an understanding of what's going on.
If you know that Slade is a "meta-human" i.e. having far greater strength, endurance, durability, speed, and reaction time than a normal human, peak or not.
And the "FACT" that Slade "IS" indeed a master marital artist in his own right.
Why can't you "SEE" that Tiger with his stats is a very impressive feat fighting against Slade in and of its self? And 'PROF' that Bronze Tiger brings enough in skill, will, and determination to beat Steve 6/10? I can tell you now that looking at that fight with Slade and Tiger, Ben didn't seem like it weren’t probable for him to bring in Slade without with Deadshot there.
And the reason Slade isn't as good as the likes of Steve, Batman, or Bronze Tiger in "martial arts", is because he hasn't "learned" nearly as much as they have. But what Slade has mastered, he's very efficient in. He shows his fighting prowess all the time, and it's part of the reason why he's so dangerous against threats even greater then him and in numbers at a time.
Hell, I'll say that even Batman has a list of feats (like Steve) that are in my opinion, more impressive than Bronze Tiger's feats. But doesn't that tell you just how skilled Bronze Tiger is, considering that Slade couldn't overwhelm Bronze Tiger with his own considerable fighting skills and superior stats, the way he did against Bruce and others?
Originally posted by Deadline
👆 However I think the argument being made is that Marvel are not only highly skilled at MA they have enhancements as well, and that makes them better. However it can still be argued that some DC MAs are so skilled that they can compensate for lack of enhancement.
Yep, I already said Marvel has DC beat in super soldier types. But not necessarily in hth, martial arts SKILL. If you include ALL the 5 or so KK's, DC has it beat. But overall, it's pretty even.