Originally posted by srankmissingnin
To be fair I don't think Batman had any clue who Panther was when he got rolled by him, and the next time they fought it was a stalemate.
Yea whatever DS thought the Govt was going to kill him as well, so he was trying his best, ok?
Originally posted by Marvelknight
And the most it did was piss Slade off. Dick knew he couldn't beat him and needed to catch up with Man-Bat. So Dick made a smart move by getting away. Or what about the time Dick payed Slade off instead of taking him by force.That is the difference between Dick and Ben. Ben' motivation, demeanor, and determination showed that he was willing and able to engage Slade and take him by force. Even though Slade's stats are superior to his, Ben still did far better than Dick. Ben not only got in attacks, he took some nice attacks too and still stayed in the fight and pressed the action. Slade grabbed a knife with intent to use it. So Slade was indeed ready for a fight. But Bronze kept Slade from inserting his dominants over him. Where as Nightwing fled. So it's not even the thing were talking about here....
Bronze Tiger clearly displayed greater effort which = greater success. And probability that he could take Slade. Nightwing merely held his own enough to survive.
Yea NWs tactics were hit him hard and fast then GFTO before DS kills me.
Originally posted by Deadline
Im aware hes talking about stamina, but it pretty much sound like BT gonna get his arse kicked after 3 mins.Anyway even if thats the case that 100% speculation.
Christ..
Only if you ignore the context of his COMPLETE assessment.. which is again, your specialty.
This is a CLASSIC example of your inability to understand context and your need to fill those gaps with your own presumtive natures.
Originally posted by Deadline
and your still debating like your opinion is fact....Jinzin he would have got killed if he was taken in, ok? If you can;t understand a simple point like that don't criticse other people for making illogical arguments.
No I'm debating like the FACTS are fact.
It's a FACT that DS wasn't trying to seriously leave BT injured or harmed.
It's a FACT that DS was hurt.
FACT that DS got blindsided at the start of the fight.
That you think he was going to be killed as an immediate recourse for being taken in is SPECULATION and it's one that doesn't fit in with BT's presumptions.
Originally posted by jinzin
Christ..
Only if you ignore the context of his COMPLETE assessment.. which is again, your specialty.
This is a CLASSIC example of your inability to understand context and your need to fill those gaps with your own presumtive natures.No I'm debating like the FACTS are fact.
It's a FACT that DS wasn't trying to seriously leave BT injured or harmed.
It's a FACT that DS was hurt.
FACT that DS got blindsided at the start of the fight.That you think he was going to be killed as an immediate recourse for being taken in is SPECULATION and it's one that doesn't fit in with BT's presumptions.
Was he blindsided for the whole of the fight?
He wasn't hurt before the fight
See what DS says here. DS cleraly thought if he was taken in he would have been killed, not speculation its a fact.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331030-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_8_super.jpg
Originally posted by Silent Master
Why not use that fight as evidence then, seeing as the DS one appears to be rather contested.
Its only being contested because people are trying to lowball it. I mentioned it to srank and he immediately tried to lowball it, they basically lowball everything.
Originally posted by jinzin
No I "see" the fight the way it was presented on panel and in context.. where DS was hurt, blindsided and obviously didn't want BT seriously harmed.You can't argue around that as if it doesn't matter.
While he obviously didn't want to be taken in, it doesn't automatically indicate he was trying his best to win by any means neccessary, OR even remotely suggest that he was able to.
That's not what the narrative stated, that's not what BT himself surmised, that's not what was suggested in the story.
Wolverine has a healing factor, taking damage and being under duress in physical and psychological situations still puts a tax on him... Phantom pains and all.
No one said Tiger wasn't tough.
Even then it's not as impressive as a DS who's 100%, isn't being blindsided and out for the kill.And... lulz WHAT?!
I don't think I nor anyone else suggested that Steve can easily knock BT out... 😕
At the least I certainly never made that claim, so take that strawman somewhere else.
If Slade was as good a fighter as Cap he wouldn't have such a hard time with people like Connor, NW, and Batman, he wouldn't get kicked into unconciousness by no name mooks...
He's a skilled fighter, no one's trying to take that away from him...But you have to look at it in a relative matter.
Even guys like Cyclops have h2h skills that are > anything any real world martial artist can accomplish in a fight and he doesn't even register a blip on Cap's radar in terms of his h2h prowess.The fact that DS is a good fighter is compounded by the fact that he's a better preper and an even better tactician. His superhuman stats even out any playing field with typical streets who are better than him.. but that's just it, there's LOADS of people out there better than him in skill.
He's not a top tier like Cap, and that RIGHT THERE should tell you that any comparisons between him and Cap in this thread to push BT is an erroneous effort on your part.
That's because you don't account for the prep, weapons, or plot devices.
He's not having 1on1 h2h matchups with these people and taking them to task which is an entirely different issue, because when he does have 1on1's (especially with street level MA's) he DOESN'T do overwhelmingly impressive does he.
Yeah, he's a good fighter, and a better tactictian, it doesn't put him on Cap's h2h level and I don't even need to get into Cap's PIS levels to suggest that.Not if your enhanced with prep work, detailed info on your opponents, and as you mentioned, your opponents hold back on you.
You think Slade's feats against the respective teams he's fought, is a clear indication of h2h skill alone, that's an absurd assessment and automatically invalidates your take on those fight much less your opinion of my odds on him vs. Cap.
Wait... you want me to show you Cap feats... but NOT the one's people know about... 🤨
Yeah... that makes sense.
Again, no one said Steve can beat him like he's nothing. What's being said is that BT doesn't bring ONE clear and distinct advantage to this fight... and he doesn't...
AND, that the fight will steadily work against his favor the longer and longer it continues.... It will.
No one said he's a pushover, no one said Cap's gonna one shot him, or that he's nothing to Cap... No argument's like that were even implied... You need a healthy dose of reality if you think otherwise.
Beyond that... Cap wins because he brings every physical advantage to this fight AT THE LEAST, and is more skilled than BT at the most.
Jinzin I'll show you the flaw in your entire debate.
Slade has problems with highly skilled fighters, for the same reasons Steve would have... Because they are highly skilled fighters, period.
What are you saying? That Steve would eat all other highly skilled fighters for lunch? Come on man, really? I think Steve would have a tough time as well. Again you are "trying" to take away from Slade (but you can't, and you're not). I see through your entire debate here.
And do you really think Steve is that much better in fighting skills that he would just defeat Slade 1 on 1? If so, that's you opinion, and nothing more really. You say that Slade powers make up for his lack of skill? Slade's powers made him better. Slade was a rank major in his teens, and one of the most accomplished young soldiers around, before he even had powers.
See, it's the way and how you say things. You come off very condescending, and twist the perspective in a way where it demeans it or is in favor toward your argument.
Do you really want me to believe that Slade wasn't as invested to keep Bronze Tiger from bringing him in, as he was when Batman tried to stop him? His life wasn't on the line then. With Bronze Tiger it was. Makes more sense to me to fight harder to save your own life instead of completing a mission.
Originally posted by jinzin
No I "see" the fight the way it was presented on panel and in context.. where DS was hurt, blindsided and obviously didn't want BT seriously harmed.You can't argue around that as if it doesn't matter.
While he obviously didn't want to be taken in, it doesn't automatically indicate he was trying his best to win by any means neccessary, OR even remotely suggest that he was able to.
That's not what the narrative stated, that's not what BT himself surmised, that's not what was suggested in the story.
Wolverine has a healing factor, taking damage and being under duress in physical and psychological situations still puts a tax on him... Phantom pains and all.
No one said Tiger wasn't tough.
Even then it's not as impressive as a DS who's 100%, isn't being blindsided and out for the kill.And... lulz WHAT?!
I don't think I nor anyone else suggested that Steve can easily knock BT out... 😕
At the least I certainly never made that claim, so take that strawman somewhere else.
If Slade was as good a fighter as Cap he wouldn't have such a hard time with people like Connor, NW, and Batman, he wouldn't get kicked into unconciousness by no name mooks...
He's a skilled fighter, no one's trying to take that away from him...But you have to look at it in a relative matter.
Even guys like Cyclops have h2h skills that are > anything any real world martial artist can accomplish in a fight and he doesn't even register a blip on Cap's radar in terms of his h2h prowess.The fact that DS is a good fighter is compounded by the fact that he's a better preper and an even better tactician. His superhuman stats even out any playing field with typical streets who are better than him.. but that's just it, there's LOADS of people out there better than him in skill.
He's not a top tier like Cap, and that RIGHT THERE should tell you that any comparisons between him and Cap in this thread to push BT is an erroneous effort on your part.
That's because you don't account for the prep, weapons, or plot devices.
He's not having 1on1 h2h matchups with these people and taking them to task which is an entirely different issue, because when he does have 1on1's (especially with street level MA's) he DOESN'T do overwhelmingly impressive does he.
Yeah, he's a good fighter, and a better tactictian, it doesn't put him on Cap's h2h level and I don't even need to get into Cap's PIS levels to suggest that.Not if your enhanced with prep work, detailed info on your opponents, and as you mentioned, your opponents hold back on you.
You think Slade's feats against the respective teams he's fought, is a clear indication of h2h skill alone, that's an absurd assessment and automatically invalidates your take on those fight much less your opinion of my odds on him vs. Cap.
Wait... you want me to show you Cap feats... but NOT the one's people know about... 🤨
Yeah... that makes sense.
Again, no one said Steve can beat him like he's nothing. What's being said is that BT doesn't bring ONE clear and distinct advantage to this fight... and he doesn't...
AND, that the fight will steadily work against his favor the longer and longer it continues.... It will.
No one said he's a pushover, no one said Cap's gonna one shot him, or that he's nothing to Cap... No argument's like that were even implied... You need a healthy dose of reality if you think otherwise.
Beyond that... Cap wins because he brings every physical advantage to this fight AT THE LEAST, and is more skilled than BT at the most.
Jinzin I'll show you the flaw in your entire debate.
Slade has problems with highly skilled fighters, for the same reasons Steve would have... Because they are highly skilled fighters, period.
What are you saying? That Steve would eat all other highly skilled fighters for lunch? Come on man, really? I think Steve would have a tough time as well. Again you are "trying" to take away from Slade (but you can't, and you're not). I see through your entire debate here.
And do you really think Steve is that much better in fighting skills that he would just defeat Slade 1 on 1? If so, that's you opinion, and nothing more really. You say that Slade powers make up for his lack of skill? Slade's powers made him better. Slade was a rank major in his teens, and one of the most accomplished young soldiers around, before he even had powers.
See, it's the way and how you say things. You come off very condescending, and twist the perspective in a way where it demeans it or is in favor toward your argument.
Do you really want me to believe that Slade wasn't as invested to keep Bronze Tiger from bringing him in, as he was when Batman tried to stop him? His life wasn't on the line then. With Bronze Tiger it was. Makes more sense to me to fight harder to save your own life instead of completing a mission.
Originally posted by Deadline
Was he blindsided for the whole of the fight?He wasn't hurt before the fight
See what DS says here. DS cleraly thought if he was taken in he would have been killed, not speculation its a fact.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331030-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_8_super.jpg
He was blindsided at the start of the fight.
He was hurt.. this is EXACLTY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
You don't give one rats ass about context.
Deathstroke: The Hunted Vol 0.
The events that directly precede that fight:
http://img26.imageshack.us/i/thehunted01.jpg/
http://img834.imageshack.us/i/thehunted02.jpg/
http://img837.imageshack.us/i/thehunted03.jpg/
http://img510.imageshack.us/i/thehunted04.jpg/
http://img141.imageshack.us/i/thehunted05.jpg/
http://img214.imageshack.us/i/thehunted06.jpg/
http://img808.imageshack.us/i/thehunted07.jpg/
http://img703.imageshack.us/i/thehunted08.jpg/
http://img529.imageshack.us/i/thehunted09.jpg/
http://img413.imageshack.us/i/thehunted10.jpg/
He wasn't anywhere NEAR 100% and BT even makes note of it DURING THE FIGHT.
And yeah, his presumptions about them killing him are analogous with the people who are TRYING to kill him I.E. The agents at the beginning of the book, or Deadshot.
Hence why BT could have been so vital, he was the only one who was sent after DS that had no intention of killing him...
But you're going to tell me DS fought him with a killing intent because he picked up a boxcutter?
It's laughable.
It might be the conclussion I came to if I only looked at the pwetty pictures two!
Originally posted by jinzin
He was blindsided at the start of the fight.He was hurt.. this is EXACLTY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
You don't give one rats ass about context.
Deathstroke: The Hunted Vol 0.
The events that directly precede that fight:http://img26.imageshack.us/i/thehunted01.jpg/
http://img834.imageshack.us/i/thehunted02.jpg/
http://img837.imageshack.us/i/thehunted03.jpg/
http://img510.imageshack.us/i/thehunted04.jpg/
http://img141.imageshack.us/i/thehunted05.jpg/
http://img214.imageshack.us/i/thehunted06.jpg/
http://img808.imageshack.us/i/thehunted07.jpg/
http://img703.imageshack.us/i/thehunted08.jpg/
http://img529.imageshack.us/i/thehunted09.jpg/
http://img413.imageshack.us/i/thehunted10.jpg/He wasn't anywhere NEAR 100% and BT even makes note of it DURING THE FIGHT.
And yeah, his presumptions about them killing him are analogous with the people who are TRYING to kill him I.E. The agents at the beginning of the book, or Deadshot.
Hence why BT could have been so vital, he was the only one who was sent after DS that had no intention of killing him...
But you're going to tell me DS fought him with a killing intent because he picked up a boxcutter?It's laughable.
It might be the conclussion I came to if I only looked at the pwetty pictures two!
And did you read that issue? Slade had time to rest and heal. He has an accelerated healing factor. He has died and comes back to life within mere hours. And Slade wasn't depowered, so his stats are not effected and are at 100%. What do you think this prove?
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Jinzin I'll show you the flaw in your entire debate.Slade has problems with highly skilled fighters, for the same reasons Steve would have... Because they are highly skilled fighters, period.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
What are you saying? That Steve would eat all other highly skilled fighters for lunch? Come on man, really? I think Steve would have a tough time as well. Again you are "trying" to take away from Slade (but you can't, and you're not). I see through your entire debate here.
Steve beats most regular street MA's yes... unless they have some sort of broken power or hax ability he will take most people in a h2h.
For what majority is entirely your perogative but I'm not the one saying Steve "eats MA's for lunch" which is a pretty braod statement to begin with. 😬
Originally posted by Marvelknight
And do you really think Steve is that much better in fighting skills that he would just defeat Slade 1 on 1?
Originally posted by Marvelknight
If so, that's you opinion, and nothing more really. You say that Slade powers make up for his lack of skill?
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Slade's powers made him better. Slade was a rank major in his teens, and one of the most accomplished young soldiers around, before he even had powers.
DS falls into this same category.
NO one's begrudging him his accomplishments, he's just not a top tier.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
See, it's the way and how you say things. You come off very condescending, and twist the perspective in a way where it demeans it or is in favor toward your argument.Do you really want me to believe that Slade wasn't as invested to keep Bronze Tiger from bringing him in, as he was when Batman tried to stop him? His life wasn't on the line then. With Bronze Tiger it was. Makes more sense to me to fight harder to save your own life instead of completing a mission.
I don't care what you think about the BT example compared to the Batman example... The fact is that Slade was blindsided from the beginning of the fight and seriously taxed before it even started. It's not some ZOMG feat for BT whether you want it to be or not, even if you ARE going to ignore the whole context of Slade trying to keep BT from serious harm.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
And did you read that issue? Slade had time to rest and heal. He has an accelerated healing factor. He has died and comes back to life within mere hours. And Slade wasn't depowered, so his stats are not effected and are at 100%. What do you think this prove?
Yeah did you?
He got hit with gas stated to give a platoon of men migrains for a week.
He was immediately on his way back to the states...
What time did he have to "heal"? 6 hours or so?
He wasn't near 100% and even BT makes mention of this.
I already stated what I think it proves, but you showed me something else.. that you ALSO have no concept of how a healing factor works g'job! thumbsup
As I stated before "CONTEXT BE DAMNED!"
Originally posted by jinzin
Steve doesn't... hence him putting the boots to Night Trasher who stalemated Junzo, a guy who was evenly matching and even better than Iron Fist).
Iron Fist, a guy who steve practically tooled.Steve beats most regular street MA's yes... unless they have some sort of broken power or hax ability he will take most people in a h2h.
For what majority is entirely your perogative but I'm not the one saying Steve "eats MA's for lunch" which is a pretty braod statement to begin with. 😬
For the majority? Yes.
Kind of like you and yours on the matter of BT being more skilled than Cap... Only... mine has a number of reasons to support it not based in pure conjecture.
So what? Guys like Nuke, US Agent, and Punisher are ALL top tier soldiers in their verse, it doesn't make them a top tier MA.
DS falls into this same category.
NO one's begrudging him his accomplishments, he's just not a top tier.
I don't care what you think about the BT example compared to the Batman example... The fact is that Slade was blindsided from the beginning of the fight and seriously taxed before it even started. It's not some ZOMG feat for BT whether you want it to be or not, even if you ARE going to ignore the whole context of Slade trying to keep BT from serious harm.
Yes Slade was blindsided from the beginning of the fight. But if knew Slade even that's not easy to do. Again you're demeaning the situation. And Slade's head was into the fight immediately after Tiger's first attack. "Fact" Because Slade"s mind works that fast. And Slade was ready, willing and able to defend himself.
No Slade didn't want Tiger to get shot, but it doesn't mean Slade would've taken it easy on Tiger, if Tiger's not willing take Slade up on his word alone. And Tiger wasn't taking no for answer. Slade would kill a friend if he/she tried to get in the way of a mission. Why wouldn't he kill Bronze Tiger if it meant getting away to save his own life?
And you say "So what? Guys like Nuke, US Agent, and Punisher are ALL top tier soldiers in their verse, it doesn't make them a top tier MA".
Jinzin please show me when any of these character displayed the same level in martial arts ability, tactically dissecting multiple opponents at the same time.Tell me if any of these character took on and beat teams at the same caliber as the JLA and Teen Titans with or without prep, using actual martial arts fighting techniques, blocks, counter/evades, and attacks? I highly doubt that Slade is or should even be considered in there category at all.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Yes Slade was blindsided from the beginning of the fight. But if knew Slade even that's not easy to do. Again you're demeaning the situation. And Slade's head was into the fight immediately after Tiger's first attack. "Fact" Because Slade"s mind works that fast. And Slade was ready, willing and able to defend himself.No Slade didn't want Tiger to get shot, but it doesn't mean Slade would've taken it easy on Tiger, if Tiger's not willing take Slade up on his word alone. And Tiger wasn't taking no for answer. Slade would kill a friend if he/she tried to get in the way of a mission. Why wouldn't he kill Bronze Tiger if it meant getting away to save his own life?
And you say "So what? Guys like Nuke, US Agent, and Punisher are ALL top tier soldiers in their verse, it doesn't make them a top tier MA".
Jinzin please show me when any of these character displayed the same level in martial arts ability, tactically dissecting multiple opponents at the same time.Tell me if any of these character took on and beat teams at the same caliber as the JLA and Teen Titans with or without prep, using actual martial arts fighting techniques, blocks, counter/evades, and attacks? I highly doubt that Slade is or should even be considered in there category at all.
So I should ignore BT's strictly unfair advantages in that fight because "it's not easy to do"... 😐
Slade obviously wasn't in the fight after the first hit because BT landed another before DS began to defend himself.
Slade is a killer, he's trained to kill. That's what he does. Him having to fight BT without a killing intent IS him holding back. Him needing BT as a tool to use to prove his innocence IS proof that he doesn't want him seriously harmed. Him trying to reason with BT the whole time IS him being uninvested in the fight.
He wasn't to be taken in, that does not automatically preclude that he was fighting to the best of his ability to put BT down... ESPECIALLY when he's given the chance to do that... and OPTS TO RUN AWAY INSTEAD... 😐
If he WAS trying to put BT down, he would have blasted him with his staff after the diversion.
He was on the run and was not out to hurt BT.
Again you keep changing the context of this discussion either your talking about his h2h skill.. where he's not a top tier and is in the same category as these guys OR you're talking about his prep work/picked battles where he's packin on his way into the fight specifically for that fight.
Of course you and I both know the only converstation that matters is the one pretaining to his h2h skill, but then again you and I are both aware that given that context and that context alone, DS is nothing to write home about.
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah did you?He got hit with gas stated to give a platoon of men migrains for a week.
He was immediately on his way back to the states...What time did he have to "heal"? 6 hours or so?
He wasn't near 100% and even BT makes mention of this.
I already stated what I think it proves, but you showed me something else.. that you ALSO have no concept of how a healing factor works g'job! thumbsup
As I stated before "CONTEXT BE DAMNED!"
Yes I have Slade entire ongoing series. If you knew how fast Slade can heal, you would know that 6 hours is more then enough for him. Again you're wrong because Slade gave no indication that he was hampered in anyway nor was he favoring any part of his body, that would have been weakened in any way. Nice try there trying to fire a shot with no ammo.
Which is why BT assesses that he's hurt.
Which is why DS assesses that he's struggling to make his way up a balcony... because he was 100% 😐
Again, just proving how ignorant you are to how healing factors work. Wolverine has a stronger, faster acting healing factor than DS and still suffers from being taxed in situations like the one DS was in. He wasn't near 100% and there are at least 2 references suggesting it in the story... you're being absurd.
Originally posted by jinzin
Which is why BT assesses that he's hurt.
Which is why DS assesses that he's struggling to make his way up a balcony... because he was 100% 😐Again, just proving how ignorant you are to how healing factors work. Wolverine has a stronger, faster acting healing factor than DS and still suffers from being taxed in situations like the one DS was in. He wasn't near 100% and there are at least 2 references suggesting it in the story... you're being absurd.
Ignorant?? Jinzin your childish remarks are feeble at best.
I understand how Wolverine's powers work very well and that his healing factor is better. Yes their healing factors can be taxed, when they sustain continuous massive amounts of damage. What's your point? Slade's strength, durability, speed, and reflexes didn't drop blow 100% i.e. he wasn't depowered. And Slade has been stabbed clean through his chest, and still continue fighting moments after. He's even had his heart cut in half through his chest, with his own sword, and his body started healing in the hospital within hours, without machines being able to detect it.
Even when Slade was blow 100%, he was still formidable enough to get out of the situation, when Aqua Man, Hal, and Flash were after him. I don't know how weak you think Slade was, but Slade's has gotten out of worse situations compared to that. Tiger was tactical and kept Slade off balance. Slade was having trouble getting away because Tiger was on his ass.
Sure Slade was trying to talk Tiger out of it but Slade didn't need him. In fact Slade was trying to clear his name without Tiger's help. But Tiger was getting annoying and wouldn't listen. You haven't proved anything to me. I've read all of these issues and have a clear perspective on what's happening in them.
