Sentry vs. JLA

Originally posted by carver9
What about wwh or current hulk rage? Do you think that thor could perform like he did in the past against a much more powerful hulk?

I have no idea. I'd want to see a Thor vs. current Hulk battle. If it matters any, Thor was originally supposed to fight World War Hulk for the big battle to a stalemate.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why is everything about Thor for you? God-dammit man...

also, what do you mean "despite" his dynamic factor? or are you talking about hulk?

😬 His very similar to Superman in terms of strength levels and his fought the Hulk regularly.

Yes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I have no idea. I'd want to see a Thor vs. current Hulk battle. If it matters any, Thor was originally supposed to fight World War Hulk for the big battle to a stalemate.

😬 His very similar to Superman in terms of strength levels and his fought the Hulk regularly.

Yes.

And I would have disagreed with thor stalemating current or wwh. Reason why... thor and classic hulk was pretty much equals when it came down to a brawl. Thors versatility made it possibility for him to physically keep pace with hulk along with thors own rage.

That's classic hulk... current hulk/wwh was stated as having a power level that is much higher than his previous self, it was stated as being off the charts. If thor was only capable of stalemating classic hulk, what chances does he have against current hulk and he sure as hell wouldnt or shouldn't be able to stalemate him.

Originally posted by carver9
And I would have disagreed with thor stalemating current or wwh. Reason why... thor and classic hulk was pretty much equals when it came down to a brawl. Thors versatility made it possibility for him to physically keep pace with hulk along with thors own rage.

That's classic hulk... current hulk/wwh was stated as having a power level that is much higher than his previous self, it was stated as being off the charts. If thor was only capable of stalemating classic hulk, what chances does he have against current hulk and he sure as hell wouldnt or shouldn't be able to stalemate him.

If Sentry can do it, then other cream of the crop heroes such as Thor or Superman should be able to do it as well.

How would Thor's versatility matter at all? Thor and Hulk were all physical brawls. Thor never uses any versatility against him (Except one particular scene) because the battle would be so brief.

The only difference in terms of strength between current Hulk and past incarnations is a fair bit higher base. Which would matter little because whenever I've seen them fight, Hulk just starts out as near Thor level for some reason and just starts getting stronger.

Bannerless Hulk is just as strong as current Hulk at least. A pissed off savage Hulk would reach World War Hulk levels if sufficiently pushed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If Sentry can do it, then other cream of the crop heroes such as Thor or Superman should be able to do it as well.

How would Thor's versatility matter at all? Thor and Hulk were all physical brawls. Thor never uses any versatility against him (Except one particular scene) because the battle would be so brief.

The only difference in terms of strength between current Hulk and past incarnations is a fair bit higher base. Which would matter little because whenever I've seen them fight, Hulk just starts out as near Thor level for some reason and just starts getting stronger.

Bannerless Hulk is just as strong as current Hulk at least. A pissed off savage Hulk would reach World War Hulk levels if sufficiently pushed.

Sentry got his face busted open with the first punch and wwh was trying to reason with him more than anything. Sentry also had a large array of energy that was hitting hulk along with the punches that he was delivering. Then we have hulk not getting one bit of rest before fighting sentry, he fought the entire arc and I THINK before this he was being encased by adamantium bullets.
Then we have sentry blitzing him numerous of times (hulk let this happen)...shooting him with high intense energy...etc, etc..

Uuummm, mindless hulk isn't as strong as current hulk. It was stated a thousand times that wwh was at a power level "he never reached before". There is no way to discredit that. Strange said it, reed said it, professor x said it along with numerous of other peeps. I don't understand why you are saying that thor can stalemate or challenge current hulk. He would do good but I can't picture him doing as good as you are saying.

Originally posted by carver9
Sentry got his face busted open with the first punch and wwh was trying to reason with him more than anything. Sentry also had a large array of energy that was hitting hulk along with the punches that he was delivering. Then we have hulk not getting one bit of rest before fighting sentry, he fought the entire arc and I THINK before this he was being encased by adamantium bullets.
Then we have sentry blitzing him numerous of times (hulk let this happen)...shooting him with high intense energy...etc, etc..

Romita drew a very bloody fight, so? They were still trading blows evenly. The Hulk and Sentry were giving it their all, don't try and twist it into anything else.

Granted, Sentry had large energy projection to offset the healing factor, but Thor and Superman have other advantages to offset it. Thor at the very least has his own energy projection.

IIRC, Hulk had finished battling Doctor Strange last issue but that was it. With his healing factor, he would have been completely fine by the time Sentry attacked.

Sentry initially tackled Hulk. So what? He gave Hulk 7 free hay-makers to the face.

Originally posted by carver9
Uuummm, mindless hulk isn't as strong as current hulk. It was stated a thousand times that wwh was at a power level "he never reached before". There is no way to discredit that. Strange said it, reed said it, professor x said it along with numerous of other peeps. I don't understand why you are saying that thor can stalemate or challenge current hulk. He would do good but I can't picture him doing as good as you are saying.

😬 Mindless Hulk is most definitely on the level of current Hulk. The level he reached when he broke through Onslaught's armor was arguably the third strongest the Hulk has ever been outside of World Breaker and War.

Yes, yes, Pak sold him as the strongest the Hulk's ever been but that's obviously not the case if you read the actual story.

Thor and Superman have both gone toe to toe with beings on the level of World War Hulk and such. I think either of them would do at least as well as Sentry if it was the ending battle.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Romita drew a very bloody fight, so? They were still trading blows evenly. The Hulk and Sentry were giving it their all, don't try and twist it into anything else.

Granted, Sentry had large energy projection to offset the healing factor, but Thor and Superman have other advantages to offset it. Thor at the very least has his own energy projection.

IIRC, Hulk had finished battling Doctor Strange last issue but that was it. With his healing factor, he would have been completely fine by the time Sentry attacked.

Sentry initially tackled Hulk. So what? He gave Hulk 7 free hay-makers to the face.

😬 Mindless Hulk is most definitely on the level of current Hulk. The level he reached when he broke through Onslaught's armor was arguably the third strongest the Hulk has ever been outside of World Breaker and War.

Yes, yes, Pak sold him as the strongest the Hulk's ever been but that's obviously not the case if you read the actual story.

Thor and Superman have both gone toe to toe with beings on the level of World War Hulk and such. I think either of them would do at least as well as Sentry if it was the ending battle.

What are you basing your judgment off to suggest that any other incarnations of the hulks are on the level of current hulk? Current hulk bypassed 100s of trillions of tons almost instanly and was still increasing. I'm not saying that thor and supes wouldn't put up a fight but I disagree with them doing as well as sentry did. Sentry NEVER displayed that type of power, not even during his void persona. People was shielding themselves over the sentry and hulk fight and sentry didn't cut lose like that since.

By the way, its not so good to bring up the onslaught hulk... thor couldn't even hardly walk during the time mindless hulk and onslaught was fighting. He was forcefully walking up to the fight due to the shockwaves that was being emitted from their punches.

Hulk healing factor did heal him up before the sentry fight took place but before all of this, even the strange fight, wwh didn't get one drop of rest... he fought the entire arc... his healing factor was tampered with to extreme levels the entre arc.

Its no way to ignore what was said throughout the arc... it was mentioned that wwh power level was much greater than ANY of his other incarnations... why take another stance when we have words from writer giving us an indication on how powerful wwh is?

Originally posted by carver9
What are you basing your judgment off to suggest that any other incarnations of the hulks are on the level of current hulk?

Comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Current hulk bypassed 100s of trillions of tons almost instanly and was still increasing.

Skaar struck him with a 100 trillion tons of force. Impressive? Yes. Above Thor/Superman level? No.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not saying that thor and supes wouldn't put up a fight but I disagree with them doing as well as sentry did. Sentry NEVER displayed that type of power, not even during his void persona. People was shielding themselves over the sentry and hulk fight and sentry didn't cut lose like that since.

I think they will. The Sentry persona is an elite top tier. That's Thor/Superman/Blue Marvel and yes World War Hulk level.

facepalm Now you're just being stupid.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, its not so good to bring up the onslaught hulk... thor couldn't even hardly walk during the time mindless hulk and onslaught was fighting. He was forcefully walking up to the fight due to the shockwaves that was being emitted from their punches.

I don't remember the scene exactly but IIRC everyone else was blown away while Thor was making ground. I have no real problem with it. The energy unleashed by that battle would cause the Hulk himself to work his way through the shockwaves if placed in Thor's position.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk healing factor did heal him up before the sentry fight took place but before all of this, even the strange fight, wwh didn't get one drop of rest... he fought the entire arc... his healing factor was tampered with to extreme levels the entre arc.

That's the thing about the Hulk, you can't use constant fighting as an excuse. Not when he had such a hax healing factor.

Originally posted by carver9
Its no way to ignore what was said throughout the arc... it was mentioned that wwh power level was much greater than ANY of his other incarnations... why take another stance when we have words from writer giving us an indication on how powerful wwh is?

Because that's obviously not the case. Green Scar wasn't operating on any level above an enraged Savage Hulk for almost all of the fight.

Because it's obviously hyperbole.

Void versus JLA and now its Hulk versus Thor. 😆

Not poking fun, its just that I enjoy how debates sometimes take a turn due to a point somebody was trying to make. I know it'll come back around eventually.

This all somehow started with me pointing out Clark is not stronger than the Hulk.

Anyways, Carver, if you want to reply, do it here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=351237&pagenumber=137

Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that i never stated nor argued that it was one of one and one of the other. you assumed that.

I have kinda lost track of the argument, what were we discussing again. I assume sometimes because you are ambigous.

Originally posted by -Pr-

flash's speed is irrelevant. CIP simply states that he's not going to act stupidly and let himself get hit if he can avoid it. how fast he goes otherwise is inconsequential.

I don't see how his speed is irrelevant when that determines wether he is going to get hit or not. Actually looked at the CIP rules and they don't contradict what I'm saying.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform.

You have personality that comes into play. Flash tends to be careless in situations that he doesn't percieve as a threat eg against the team of heroes the worse he will get is KOed hes not going to use his powers to the full extent. Against a massive Void I can see him using FTL speed. Take a look at Flash vs Zum in that situation he started using his powers to their full extent and used IMP.

I don't know I guess whats idiotic is a matter of opinion I mean you could argue Superman not using a speedblitz straight is idiotic as well but at the same time if he can afford to take hits to a degree then I don't know. To be fair Flash not using his powers to their full extent in certain situations isn't really idiotic anyway.

Don't see why Void can't tag flash either.

Originally posted by Deadline
I have kinda lost track of the argument, what were we discussing again. I assume sometimes because you are ambigous.

I don't see how his speed is irrelevant when that determines wether he is going to get hit or not. Actually looked at the CIP rules and they don't contradict what I'm saying.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform.

You have personality that comes into play. Flash tends to be careless in situations that he doesn't percieve as a threat eg against the team of heroes the worse he will get is KOed hes not going to use his powers to the full extent. Against a massive Void I can see him using FTL speed. Take a look at Flash vs Zum in that situation he started using his powers to their full extent and used IMP.

I don't know I guess whats idiotic is a matter of opinion I mean you could argue Superman not using a speedblitz straight is idiotic as well but at the same time if he can afford to take hits to a degree then I don't know. To be fair Flash not using his powers to their full extent in certain situations isn't really idiotic anyway.

Don't see why Void can't tag flash either.

I'm not ambiguous. I just get tired of explaining myself over and over again.

The rules follow that if Flash is fast enough to avoid an attack, he's going to do it. He's not Superman, and he doesn't job.

This isn't a discussion. That's a ruling Badabing and I made when we crafted those rules.

If you're fast enough to tag Flash, you tag him. If you're not, and you can't hit him some other way, then you don't. That's how it is, and that's how it's staying.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not ambiguous. I just get tired of explaining myself over and over again.

The rules follow that if Flash is fast enough to avoid an attack, he's going to do it. He's not Superman, and he doesn't job.

This isn't a discussion. That's a ruling Badabing and I made when we crafted those rules. If you're fast enough to tag Flash, you tag him. If you're not, and you can't hit him some other way, then you don't. That's how it is, and that's how it's staying.

Im just going to ignore you from now on. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Whatever. 👆

Originally posted by Deadline
Im just going to ignore you from now on. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Whatever. 👆

Great; I won't have to listen to you whine so much then.

I recommend you re-read the rules, and try to understand them though; they are for your benefit at the end of the day.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Great; I won't have to listen to you whine so much then.

I recommend you re-read the rules, and try to understand them though; they are for your benefit at the end of the day.

Well its what I was doing for awhile I should have kept on doing it. I don't need to read anything just avoid you. You need to use imo more often.

Originally posted by Deadline
Well its what I was doing for awhile I should have kept on doing it. I don't need to read anything just avoid you. You need to use imo more often.

I use it enough on the forum as it is (and people who've been here long enough know that), and feel no need to alter my posting habits to make anyone else happy.

And yes, you obviously seem to misunderstand the rules based on your posts, so a re-read would actually be a good idea IMO.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I use it enough on the forum as it is (and people who've been here long enough know that), and feel no need to alter my posting habits to make anyone else happy.

And yes, you obviously seem to misunderstand the rules based on your posts, so a re-read would actually be a good idea IMO.

Are you done (you clearly don't think it's a matter of opinion anyway)?

imo NO herald level character is going to overpower the hulk...

Originally posted by Deadline
Are you done (you clearly don't think it's a matter of opinion anyway)?

I thought you were ignoring me?

the rules are the rules. they aren't changing unless bada and i feel that's necessary. so whether you like them or not, they're to be followed.

Arguing with a mod deserves a warning. There's too much of that happening.

Ignoring rules or selectively adhering to certain rules in order for your side to win is trolling. That's something else which is happening too much.

Deadline, I don't care about your opinion of the mods or the rules. You will stop arguing with mods and start following the rules or you'll be looking for a new place to post. You should be glad that Pr hasn't warned you for your attitude towards him the past few weeks.

Ok but just let me make something absolutely clear Pr you disagree that Flash wouldn't use FTL speed straight away against the team (or not at all)? I'm not arguing about the rules I'm just clarifying your opinion.