Yeah the whole flying thing makes it impossible for Cullen to win, simply because Tony can land and take off again before Cullen is there. He cant move instantaneous.
And wasnt RJ the one who started spouting the whole "10000 MPH!!!1!11!" thing?
If he was, are you HONESTLY taking him seriously? honestly?
Well... my question, is that, Dadudemon has made his point, that Edward wins, very clear. However he has also made clear that he has no intention of actually proving that. So that being the case, why is he still posting in here? Obviously he doesn't really have anything more constructive to say, since he's basically repeating himself.
Originally posted by dadudemon
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534654
im actually curious to see someone who knows something about Edward to debate for his side. so far his support is pretty sad. personally i dont like him either.. but this thread is freakin sad.. if you think Edward can win then defend him..
ironman wins until proven otherwise.. simply due to lack of proof for edwards ability. =/
"stand there and watch my sparkle baby!"
It makes him easier to see, not that it would matter to Iron Man. 😛
Also, about the 9000 mph crap. Edward himself (in Midnight sun) states that it's faster and easier for them to travel by car and plane.
Not only that, but if they really could run that fast, why did Alice and Bella drive through Italy? Alice could have easily held on to Bella and ran the distance. 😬
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
After getting all the laughs out of my system, I need to get this straight.Because James "allegedly" beat Bella to Phoenix, while Bella was riding a jet(😆 ), it proves the vamps have speed of over 9000 mph?
There is just so much wrong with this.....[b]so much
. [/B]
Settle down and stop trolling.
I have the film, right here 🙂
1:32:57
Bella leaves with Alice and Jasper to DRIVE to Phoenix AZ.
1:33:32
Bella is in Washington, still.
1:33:33
They are now seen in Arizona.
1:33:46
James is still in Washington.
1:33:53
James figure out that they are tricking him and heads towards Bella.
1:34:10
Bella is seen pulling up to the hotel and it's the same "daylight' as we saw before at 1:33:33 meaning, very little time has passed and that makes sense: the camera showed them on the highway at 1:33:33 and it zooms in to what appears to be a "location" and then it shows the hotel. So, I guess the camera is trying to show us that they drove that direction to the hotel.
1:34:22
Alice sees James, still in Washington, Change direction, while at the hotel. Keep in mind that James is in Washington in this shot and Alice and co are in Phoenix, at the hotel.
1:35:24
It's later in the day as the sun is almost directly overhead.
1:35:27
Alice and Jasper are seen in the hotel lobby and Alice is telling Jasper when "checkout time" occurs: 11. That may be 11 PM. We don't know.
1:35:34
Bella answers a call from her home. It's James. James had enough time to go through Bella's home videos and find one where her mother is speaking, put together a little trick, and call Bella and have it setup to trick her. Even if you assume that it took him a couple of hours to go through her stuff like that, it still makes his time to run from Washington to Phoenix very very fast: Edward is faster while carrying Bella.
1:36:25
Jasper and Alice are seen checking in or out the Hotel at the front.
1:36:37
Bella sneaks past Jasper and Alice at the front desk.
1:36:50
Bella is seen arriving that the studio and it is no longer dusk: looks like the sun fully sets.
It was estimated that about 10 minutes had passed from the time they first arrived at the hotel and the time we see Bella packing her stuff very shortly after having gotten off of the phone with Edward...who was calling to say that they lost James. So, however long it took Edward to run back home with his group, get in the car, and start driving, and then jump to the scene of Bella hurriedly packing her stuff due to Edward's disturbing call which said he was going to take her away, alone, with him.
Again, 10 minutes is the estimate.
Edward makes it to Bella, from Washington, in what appears to be a few hours. Most of which occurred in a car. We don't know at what point Edward ditched the car and ran to the studio, but he beats everyone to the studio. Just enough time passes between the Forks location and the Phoenix AZ location to make it change from in the morning (when he called) to the evening right after sunset (shortly after Bella got to the Studio.) The trip takes 26 hours, best route, to drive there. Let's say that Edward, just to be lenient to the naysayers, started driving towards Phoenix around 9 AM (wrong, because he called shortly after they lost track of him, but I'm being "nice". He might have left later, closer to noon, than 9 because James calls shortly thereafter when Bella is packing her stuff due to Edward's call. But, hey, I'm being really nice.) and gets there around 8PM (Sunset is around 7:00 in April, in AZ, which is around the time that Edward and Bella have their AZ adventure in the first film: it is the end of the school year.)
That's a 1522 mile trip in 11 hours. That's 138 mph, average speed, to get to the studio from his location, part of which was driven in a Jeep Liberty which has a top speed of 113, best case scenario. In other words, along the lines, somewhere, they got out and ran to make up the difference. We can speculate what that time was, but it had to have occurred some point after Bella left the hotel and Jasper and Alice noticed. Even at a top speed, and still assuming 9 AM as the depart time, that has Bella leaving the hotel at sunset which is around 7 PM. Total miles traveled by 7 PM at the top speed of 113 MPH: 1130 Miles. We know that number to be wrong, because, as fact, they were driving around 45 when Edward called her from the road. Still, I have to humor the worst speed scenario for you guys because you will definitely want to gimp Edward as much as possible because of your twihate. Total miles traveled at top speed in 10 hours: 1130 miles. So, Edward has to make his trip to the studio in an hour because, again, Bella snuck out and was not noticed until "later" between the hour it looks like it takes between the hotel and the studio. This, again, is assuming the absolute slowest scenario for Edward because it is far more likely that Alice and Jasper do not notice her missing until they are done at the front desk.
So, how many miles left (which is just to Phoenix. I'm not taking into account how long Edward has to travel from the hotel to the Studio. Or from his current location on his trip straight to the studio: we just don't know, so I'll gimp in favor of a slow Edward): 392 miles left.
So, in an hour, Edward makes it from his current location on his ultra unrealistic speed to the studio at 392 mph. This assumes he doesn't stop by the hotel, drove 113 MPH the whole time (impossible), and got a call on his cell from Jasper and Alice once they realized he was gone.
Let's go with something that is more in-tune with the film: Edward does not drive 113 miles per hour, straight to the Studio in Phoenix. He would have driven, on average, around 45 MPH (80, highway, which accounts for about 1100 miles on the interstate. Stopping to get gas, driving through over a dozen cities, etc.)
Add that into the equation and we get what?: 450 miles driven. Let's be generous to the 450 miles being driven because of the large amount of highway they could have driven on. 1522-450 = 1072
So, a more realistic scenario (but still greatly gimps Edward's speed) has Edward running at 1072 Mph. But, it's still not taking into account that Edward had to be called sometime after Bella left, then redirected towards the studio, of which, he had no clue where it was. We can only assume that it was looked up on the internets (or a map) and then given to him.
From the time Bella walks into the studio to the time that Edward comes crashing in on James' parade, this is a "sequence" with no time skips. So Edward gets to her location from somewhere between Washington, Phoenix, and the hotel. We don't know where he came from.
James indicates that Edward beat the others there because he's faster than the others, implying that he Ran there (obviously.)
Around..
1:40:48
The rest of the gang gets there.
I amend my previous answer to "at least 1072 Mph, but most likely much greater due to several events that must occur before Edward would know where to go."
Since we know Edward is faster than James, and they most likely lead James around the woods for a few hours, it's far more likely that James made his trip sometime between 11 and 12 and got to Phoenix in about 10 minutes. He had to have time to search through Bella's crap in order to setup his scenario *(see below). That leaves almost no time, at all, for him to have done anything except run there before noonish. Since we know Edward is faster, on foot, while carrying Bella, Edward Obviously could have easily made the same trip.
Knowing that, we can logically say that Edward made his foot trip sometime right before 8 PM or right after 8PM. There's no way that Edward could not make the same trip like James because he is supposedly faster than James while carrying Bella.
But, for he sake of gimping to appease the haters, we can stick with 1072.
Originally posted by MadMel
Also, about the 9000 mph crap. Edward himself (in Midnight sun) states that it's faster and easier for them to travel by car and plane.
But, you see, the books also don't have a speed feat of anything greater than 60-70 mph, from what we can tell. This isn't about the books. This is about the movies.
Originally posted by MadMel
Not only that, but if they really could run that fast, why did Alice and Bella drive through Italy? Alice could have easily held on to Bella and ran the distance. 😬
You bring this up as if the author did a great job of NOT writing herself into plot holes. In fact, that WOULD have been the best option to get there faster. Bella could have driven and Alice could have ran there.
An apologist will point out that Edward didn't run as fast as he could with Bella on his back due to how violent it would be: he ran so gently that Bella described it as gliding or some shit, yet it was very fast.
Again, we have leave the books out.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That and both the movie and the books prove that James did not beat Bella to Phoenix or go anywhere close to over 9000 mph.
I agree. I was mixing up the book with the film because I've only seen the movie, once.
*But, a case could be made that says he got there even faster than 10 minutes because James had to review the tapes to find one that fit his purposes for his "trap." Regardless, James ran from Washington to Phoenix from sometime in the morning to around noon. Several events occurred before that happened: he and Victoria stopped by the highschool and found Bella's previous address. He then ran to Phoenix, staked our Bella's home long enough to see her mother leave because her father called her mother. And then go through the shit in the house enough to find a video to fit his purposes.
And this is why I did not want to get into this: it's a gigantic waste of time.
Edward can run as fast or faster than Ironman can fly.
Edward also can read minds to such a point that even a veteran at slaying vampires could not get the best of Edward. Edward employs so quickly that it is to the point of it being equivalent Jedi battle precog...and THAT'S against a superhuman that has super-speed, super-strength, and super-reflexes. The difference would be even greater between a human with human reflexes.
To the idea that his lasers will land on Edward: how can he shoot Edward with his high-powered lasers when: he knows exactly where Stark is going to shoot them? How is Stark going to hit Edward with anything when Edward can move so fast the he's a blur in 4x slow-mo. On top of that, that was Edward's WEAKEST showing in all of the films: he hadn't eaten anything in months because of his depression.
Even if you assume that the fight starts with Ironman IMMEDIATELY taking off as soon as the fight starts, this does not account for Edward's ability to read Ironman's thoughts.
There's also the problem of Ironman being easily torn apart by Edward. Let's not forget that a car is like styrofoam to Edward. Or, are we overlooking that?
To sum up: Edward goes into his ultra-fast blur speed, tears off Ironman's head. Edward wins 10/10 times.
Ironman takes flight and tries to fire a missile at Edward? Edward easily outruns Ironman and takes cover. Edward also easily reads Ironman's mind and sees exactly where he fires his missile, easily dodging out of the way and easily getting aware from the blast before it occurs. Ironman tracking Edward? Edward can run more than fast enough to any area and get out of sight? But wait, you say Ironman has heat vision in his HUD, right? Edward is as cold as the air around him: he's a damn vampire.
Let's pretend, for an instant, that Ironman can hit Edward with one of his Palm shots: it does nothing to Edward. Being slammed into a solid slab of marble so much so that it shattered and made a indention, only cracked his face, which he healed from very quickly. That would be enough to make any meatbag splatter. Ever seen the damage dun to the side-walk from a really high jump of a suicide attempt? I could post one, but lots of times, it doesn't even crack: the person bounces as well as kind of flattens/splats a bit.
Why did I even bother to explain why Ironman obviously loses to someone that moves absurdly fast and is absurdly strong? Because I grew tired of the whining and I had time. I also grow tired of TheAuraAngel trolling me and trying to goad me into posting so he/she could pretend that there's anything that could be argued in my post. Regardless of the obvious twilight victory, you guys will pretend as though you can tear apart my arguments.
This is why I will not argue for one side or the other, in this thread, anymore.
Enjoy your butthurt and twi-hate, MVF.
I think you have the events of the movie mixed up shockingly bad.
James had already suspected that Bella would go to phoenix. Therefor, he was ready to travel there at any time. He had Victoria call him by phone to confirm his suspicions. Not only that, but James took a plane from Washington to Phoenix. As Laurent said, James was just as capable as the Cullens at mingling with humans without succumbing to his addiction.
Dont forget one thing. That little itty bitty missile, and that the suit is more durable than a freaking MBT with 3x more armor than they already have. It could tank anything thrown at it, short of another suit, made like his, or to break his. Oh, and that stuff Caps shield is made from, Vibranium or something? (i forgot) HE MADE THAT. Unbreakable metal was made. By Stark. And know what? Its in his suit. If a car is styrofoam to Edward, the MK III suit is like a 5 inch steel bar. He can only hit the joints, and then have a hope. Besides, splash radius from explosions will take him out. Or the Unibeam.
You guys who defend Twilight, you pull the most random things i have ever seen to defend it. Your saying that, in a couple hours, ON AN INTERSTATE, Bella, Jasper, and Alive drove to Phoenix. That alone would take over a day, a day James would have. Then, checking out of a hotel requires at least 1 day stay. Thats 2 days James has. No doubt they could run there in 2 days. Besides, they are slower than a jet.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Settle down and stop trolling.I have the film, right here 🙂
*snippet*
You're the one who put a jet there, not me. 😐
As do I. And so long as I'm playing your game, I may as well imitate you.
1:31:22
Bella leaves Forks at what I assume is near sunrise time.
1:31:45
We see Rosalie rub against that tree and what appears to be a similar time due to lighting. Then again, could be midday too.
1:31:47
Bella and the weirdos are seen driving along the road but it is much brighter outside, indicating that they've been driving for a few hours, meaning they are quite a bit away from Forks.
1:31:54
In Arizona, much brighter outside.
1:32:07
James runs past the same tree Rosalie rubbed against. Look at the weather and tell me exactly what time it appears to be outside. To me it looks like early morning.
1:32:22
We see Bella and the weirdos pull into the hotel. Problem with your morning theory is, well, the hotels lights are on. Considering lights like that tend not to go on until it's nearly night time. We know it can't be very close to morning because when we see them driving on the road, the sun seems to suggest it being middle of the dayish. I say ish because I'm not sure. And the scene where Alice has her vision chance seems to indicate some light from the outside.
Interesting thing to note: Alice sees the tracker change his mind mere seconds before Edward calls and says they lost track of him, making her future seeing capabilities look down right pathetic.
1:33:31
We see the male weirdos on the road to Phoenix and it looks about morning ish midday. No idea where they're at but likely close to Washington.
1:33:42
Outside of the hotel looks similar to before. Two options: Morning, no. Afternoon? Likely. The shadows look to be in the same place but the lights are not on. Meaning it's a tad bit earlier than when they arrived. The lighting in the room is the same as before so it would indicate that, wouldn't ya say?
1:35:01
Even darker outside and lights are all on. Fair enough to assume it took Bella some time to decide her plan of action. Jasper and Alice were simply talking downstairs at the time so they likely wouldn't keep track of the time. Also, lul at you confusing Alice's voice with another girls.
So explain how it can be afternoon time when Alice saw James change his mind and how it can be afternoon time when Bella got the phone call from James? 🙂
That and your entire argument hinges on Edward and the rest of the Cullens ditching their car which you have no proof of them doing. It's also inconsistent and ignores logic.
Quit saying I'm trolling by the way, considering the fact that you pulled a jet out of nowhere to say that James was faster than it. haermm
Note:We may have different versions of the film, which might indicate the difference of times.
Originally posted by MadMel
I think you have the events of the movie mixed up shockingly bad.
Despite the fact that I gave you a second by second recap?
Originally posted by MadMel
James had already suspected that Bella would go to phoenix.
Yet, he magically follows a dead end trail through the woods.
Originally posted by MadMel
Therefor, he was ready to travel there at any time.
He had the Blackbird warmed up and everything, huh? You're simply wrong. He had no contingency: just follow Bella. After he figured out that trail was a fake, he and Victoria found Bella's address.
Originally posted by MadMel
He had Victoria call him by phone to confirm his suspicions.
And where is this magical phone? This still does not counter ANYTHING I stated as him having a phone does nothing to the time line.
Originally posted by MadMel
Not only that, but James took a plane from Washington to Phoenix. As Laurent said, James was just as capable as the Cullens at mingling with humans without succumbing to his addiction.
Fail: that's the book. The ONLY thing Laurent told the Cullens, from what we saw on screen, is as follows:
Carlisle: Wait! He came to warn us...about James. (1:31:12)
Laurent: This isn't my fight, and I've grown tired of his games, but he's got unparalleled senses, absolutely lethal.
I've never seen anything like him in my 300 years.
And the woman, Victoria, don't underestimate her. (1:31:27)
It should be no surprise that you did nothing to refute anything I've stated as it would have taken you far more effort.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You're the one who put a jet there, not me. 😐As do I. And so long as I'm playing your game, I may as well imitate you.
1:31:22
Bella leaves Forks at what I assume is near sundown time.
1:31:45
We see Rosalie rub against that tree and what appears to be a similar time due to lighting.
1:31:47
Bella and the weirdos are seen driving along the road but it is much brighter outside, indicating that they've been driving for a few hours, meaning they are quite a bit away from Forks.
1:31:54
In Arizona, much brighter outside.
1:32:07
James runs past the same tree Rosalie rubbed against. Look at the weather and tell me exactly what time it appears to be outside. To me it looks like early morning.
1:32:22
We see Bella and the weirdos pull into the hotel. Problem with your morning theory is, well, the hotels lights are on. Considering lights like that tend not to go on until it's nearly night time. We know it can't be very close to morning because when we see them driving on the road, the sun seems to suggest it being middle of the dayish. I say ish because I'm not sure. And the scene where Alice has her vision chance seems to indicate some light from the outside.
Interesting thing to note: Alice sees the tracker change his mind mere seconds before Edward calls and says they lost track of him, making her future seeing capabilities look down right pathetic.
1:33:31
We see the male weirdos on the road to Phoenix and it looks about morning ish midday. No idea where they're at but likely close to Washington.
1:33:42
Outside of the hotel looks similar to before. Two options: Morning, no. Afternoon? Likely. The shadows look to be in the same place but the lights are not on. Meaning it's a tad bit earlier than when they arrived. The lighting in the room is the same as before so it would indicate that, wouldn't ya say?
1:35:01
Even darker outside and lights are all on. Fair enough to assume it took Bella some time to decide her plan of action. Jasper and Alice were simply talking downstairs at the time so they likely wouldn't keep track of the time. Also, lul at you confusing Alice's voice with another girls.
So explain how it can be afternoon time when Alice saw James change his mind and how it can be afternoon time when Bella got the phone call from James? 🙂
That and your entire argument hinges on Edward and the rest of the Cullens ditching their car which you have no proof of them doing. It's also inconsistent and ignores logic.
Quit saying I'm trolling by the way, considering the fact that you pulled a jet out of nowhere to say that James was faster than it. haermm
Note:We may have different versions of the film, which might indicate the difference of times.
Fail. Your entire argument is based on a lie that wishes to trick the readers.
You're tried to and I caught you deliberately lying about the events in the film.
They are as I described: not your lies.
You also tried to indicate there's a magical "brightness" difference in Forks when it is ALL sequential or no change.
Edit - Just watched the sequence, again.
As she pulls away from the Cullen's place, it is absolute dark. At this point, it does not matter what it is outside because they haven't tricked James.
Bella calls her mom and it's still morning, but it is not very bright because they are still in Washington. You could argue that a few hours pass and it is around 8.
The very next scene has Rosalie marking a tree and it is the same time, outside.
The next shot shows them driving on the road. It's still not much brighter.
Very next shot: they are now magically in Phoenix. Still no sight of James.
We can only assume that 26 hours has passed for Bella. And it's a new day. How else did she get there?
The very next scene shows James running through the woods. Keep in mind that this is a new day because Bella has already made it to Phoenix and he BACKTRACKS. Alice does NOT see that until they are in the hotel. Guess what that means? James' backtracks and when Alice sees it, it's in her future (she doesn't see the present, she sees the future). So, it's even WORSE than you thought it was in favor of some super fast runners.
Originally posted by Pwned
Dont forget one thing. That little itty bitty missile, and that the suit is more durable than a freaking MBT with 3x more armor than they already have. It could tank anything thrown at it, short of another suit, made like his, or to break his. Oh, and that stuff Caps shield is made from, Vibranium or something? (i forgot) HE MADE THAT. Unbreakable metal was made. By Stark. And know what? Its in his suit. If a car is styrofoam to Edward, the MK III suit is like a 5 inch steel bar. He can only hit the joints, and then have a hope. Besides, splash radius from explosions will take him out. Or the Unibeam.
Some much rubbish in this post. Stark did not make Caps shield. At best, it was a replica. You do not know what that shield was made of.
Covered the itty bitty missile argument, already.
Covered the OBVIOUS problem of his armor being an issue.
Originally posted by Pwned
You guys who defend Twilight, you pull the most random things i have ever seen to defend it. Your saying that, in a couple hours, ON AN INTERSTATE, Bella, Jasper, and Alive drove to Phoenix.
Nope. That's not what was said at all. One day passes. It's not until the NEXT day that James changes course.
Originally posted by Pwned
That alone would take over a day, a day James would have. Then, checking out of a hotel requires at least 1 day stay. Thats 2 days James has. No doubt they could run there in 2 days. Besides, they are slower than a jet.
Again, Alice SAW James change course BEFORE he changed course. It took them more than a day to travel there and more than a day for James to change course.
We are dealing with 2 separate days.
The original 9000mph run was wrong. I admitted that. I had the events of the book confused for the events in the movie. I thought Bella took a plane and was called on her cell, on the plane.
A lie huh?
Care to point out where I lied? I fully admitted that I may have a different version of the film. I'm also using my PS3 to do the frame by frame, which may be different from a normal DVD player, if you're using one at least. I wouldn't know.
Edit: I assume she got there by, ya know, driving.
Edit: This buisness about Alice is debunked by the film, where seconds after seeing the vision Edward calls saying they lost track of James.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
A lie huh?Care to point out where I lied? I fully admitted that I may have a different version of the film. I'm also using my PS3 to do the frame by frame, which may be different from a normal DVD player, if you're using one at least. I wouldn't know.
Edit: I assume she got there by, ya know, driving.
Yeah, just pointed it out. Thanks for playing.
You deliberately tried to falsify events to make yourself right. Bad form. Very lame. If this is how you try to "win", GTFO of the MVF.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Edit: This buisness about Alice is debunked by the film, where seconds after seeing the vision Edward calls saying they lost track of James.
Oh, so minutes couldn't have passed between the time James changed directions (cause Edward could listen to his thoughts from a distance) and by the time they get back in the car and start driving towards Phoenix?
Again, thanks for playing. You're lying and falsifying events to make yourself right. If you do that again, I'll report you for trolling.
Watch the scene again. Alice is seeing into the future. Sees that he's changed course and sees the room of mirrors. That's a future. She cannot see into other locations runing in current time. He had changd course, previously, in an earlier scene. The two "timelines" do NOT match up. When they get to the hotel, she finally sees that future and then sees the alternate future of the dance studio.
Edit - Also, Edward calls about a minute afterwards. Not sure where the car was relative to their location, but they got in it quickly and started towards Phoenix. Keep in mind that there were THREE cars: the Jeep, that red car and the Audi.