Originally posted by JakeTheBankIt's illogical because you're making an argument that appeals to numbers.
Illogical? Why? Despite it's decades worth of showings which support it versus the single Thor/Logan encounter? I think a majority of comics supporting Thor's speed/reflexes holds more weight than a single issue which doesn't. Even though Thor still managed to strike and grab Logan in said issue. So, iow, "I don't like it, it didn't happen?"
And you want to make an argument that appeals to majority?
The reason why there's credence behind the Wolverine/Thor fight because that representation of their speed is appropriate compared to the the majority of their careers.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's the problem. You and others are hinging your entire arguments for the team - and by proxy - Wolverine based off of that fight alone while willingly and admittedly ignoring Thor's own feats as a whole, which surpass what Logan has done. Per forum rules, combatants fight at the very best of their ability.Willful ignorance of Thor is still ignorance of Thor.
Wolverine's most ridiculous feats include him evading lazer fire, thought, and lazer abilities which is by definition a light speed feat.
"As a whole" Wolverine's in fight performances are altogether better than Thor's on a far more consistent basis.
Arguably:
Better against Spiderman in melee.
Better against Cap in melee.
Better against Rulk in melee.
Better against Hulk in melee.
Better against Namor in melee.
Better against Crusader in melee.
Better against Herc in melee.
Better against Nafaria in melee.
Wolverine was faster than Thor in their fight and if you think citing some examples EXTREMELY outside of Thor's typical performance is a reason to ignore that then we're at an impass because that kind of reasoning isn't logical.
"at the best of their abilities" is not an excuse to cite inconsistent PIS as proof of your opinions. 😬
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Wolverine's blocked lasers a few times. Which Thor has done in every other comic he's been in. So Wolverine's faster AND he's light speed. Somehow. Pay attention! Right. You applied rule #2 of Wolverithmetics: "If IDLI, IDH."You've got a speckle of Rule #62 of Wolverithmetics: "If IDLI, I'll also just pretend it happened differently. Somehow."
Nah it's just that those incidents never happened.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Basically, lazer dodzing unless blatantly specified or proved to be a FTL feat is not FTL. It's simply far too much of a misused trope to qualify on its own.Usually I'm cool with real life analogues for feat calcs, but for certain things it just doesn't add up within the story, and lazer dodging is THE prime example. How many peak human level characters have we seen be able to dodge 'lazers' so to speak?
At most it can be assigned as a high hypersonic reaction feat as you can comfortably assume that they (writers that is) at least intended the lazers to be faster than bullet speed.
So yeah, we all agree that Wolverine is not FTL in CQC, but what feats does Thor have that could possibly designate him as FTL in CQC either? Lazer dodging/blocking don't count.
Originally posted by jinzinSee no evil. Nice maxim. It's served you this long. No reason to change now.
Nah it's just that those incidents never happened.
Originally posted by jalek moyeNo. Wolverine was stated by Thor to be to fast for him to hit. Even though Thor hit him. Wolverine's faster AND light speed. Somehow. Pay attention!
If Thor and Wolverine fought neither would be too fast for the other. Thor and Wolverine fight at speeds that they can both tag each other at. Just the way Wolverine fights, his agility and size means he'd get hit less often.
Originally posted by jalek moye
If Thor and Wolverine fought neither would be too fast for the other. Thor and Wolverine fight at speeds that they can both tag each other at. Just the way Wolverine fights, his agility and size means he'd get hit less often.
Short, simple, AND reasonable?
Hell yeah.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Not even sure who is actually trying to argue that proposition.
I'm not really venturing to blame anyone for saying something like this (I haven't even read before the page I posted in).
It's just a question I'm asking for my own curiosity. Since clearly it will be more acceptable to designate a high herald as having FTL hand speed/reaction time than it will be for most mid metas or so. If he does have them, and fairly frequently, then one has to label either the notion of him being taggable by anyone less than reasonably close to relativistic speeds as PIS/CIS OR label his FTL reaction feats as PIS.
How do we get to that judgement call?
And if its determined that Thor being taggable by Cap or Logan is a realistic showing of his ability, then how can people possibly give him good odds to tag, let alone beat honest to goodness speedsters? I won't say the name, you all know and I don't mean Flash. Speed kills.
Originally posted by CosmicCometWho argued that Cap and Wolverine can't tag Thor? Also, Thor's beaten every speedster he's faced. Also, since when is Wolverine's speed supposed to be insurmountable?
And if its determined that Thor being taggable by Cap or Logan is a realistic showing of his ability, then how can people possibly give him good odds to tag, let alone beat honest to goodness speedsters? I won't say the name, you all know and I don't mean Flash. Speed kills.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I love how people make it out like there was a Thor/Wolverine "fight".I'd prefer to call it the "Thor tries to talk to Wolverine while Wolverine tries to kill Thor, and then Thor gets bored and one shots Wolverine with just enough power to stun him incident".
Except that Wolverine was dodging Thor's "fiercest" and "finest" blows AND Wolverine wasn't one shot, or two shot, or put down at all?
Yyyyyyeah.
And yet, once again, this thread has been made Wolvie-centric, lol.
Thor tags Gorgon and Omega Red based on his feats which support him hitting fast opponents. He would endure more punishment their either of them can as well as dish it out. If Thor does not somehow tag either of them, a missed strike will more than likely collide with the adamantium in the stadium if Thor doesn't choose to do this to begin with. The reverberations play hell with the duo allowing Thor to clean up.
Hence, Thor wins the decisive majority.
Originally posted by CosmicCometAnd if its determined that Thor being taggable by Cap or Logan is a realistic showing of his ability, then how can people possibly give him good odds to tag, let alone beat honest to goodness speedsters? I won't say the name, you all know and I don't mean Flash. Speed kills.
Thor's lightning is magical in nature. It can be 1,000s of times more powerful than normal lightning, and more importantly to your question, its also much...MUCH faster. Thor has shown to be able to move FTL in both travel and combat reflexes. This is just a fact. He rarely uses it, because its not his style, and he usually doesn't need too, given there are much fewer speedsters in Marvel than in DC. Thor has been shown to be able to react to FTL characters. Thor can also deliver omnidirectional blasts, or he can electrify his body when the Flash is tagging him.
In an actual comic, the Flash would probably beat Thor in their first fight just based off the surprise factor. The second time, and beyond, Thor would win the majority IMO.