Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
The same way that Logan hurt Thor - adamantium blade. Except this blade is greater and the person wielding it is stronger and arguably more skilled. Thor could easily get his jugular cut wide open.
I don't think Thor would waste his time trying to talk sense into Gorgon, seeing as they've never been allies.
Originally posted by Ize19
And here Wolverine saves Mai from several deadly beams of light(which would make this, according to Thor's respect thread's description, a nanosecond reaction time feat, lol):http://img696.imageshack.us/f/mcpch04004.jpg/
http://img28.imageshack.us/f/mcpch04005.jpg/
I don't think dodging or blocking lasers gives one faster than light reflexes or whatever. However, ODG and Jinzin apparently find it really impressive. Hence the scan.
By the way, from what I remember of that issue (Marvel Comic's PresentsIIRC), the light wasn't chasing or being aimed at Logan. It was splintering light created by the light and dark shadows colliding. Based on those scans (And when the two destroyed each other in the valley), they weren't light speed or anything. Humans could perceive/track/dodge the beams. I recall one Asian dude doing it.
Originally posted by Ize19
So, Thor manages to outrace Phoenix's thoughts twice, eh? Well, taking into consideration that there is some distance between them, this scan of Wolverine being too fast for Psylocke's telepathy UP CLOSE should surpass that:
No, that’s completely different from what I posted and not nearly as impressive. Thor dodges an actual telepathic blast which would be completely independent from the Phoenix’s own physical reflexes as far as I know. On the other hand, Logan doesn’t outrace her psychic attack. She just can’t predict or keep up with Logan’s speed which makes sense. Telepathy doesn’t grant one impressive reflexes. It’s independent from physical speed. It’s why dodging a telepathic blast is far more impressive than out fighting one. Telepathy is nearly instantaneous for the most part in comics. The speed of telepaths and even their thought speed for whatever reason however doesn’t go hand in hand with it from what I’ve seen.
Originally posted by Ize19
And in this scan, Wolverine flat out states that he fights FASTER than he can think! Here you go:http://img857.imageshack.us/f/wolverinev2ch06123.jpg/
Next.
Are you reading the scans you’re posting? How is that more impressive? Due to Logan’s experience, training etc. he can move instinctually.
I mean really, how else do you think a character can operate by moving faster than he himself can think? ermm
Originally posted by Ize19
Both of these feats suffer from the same thing that some of PoO's did-namely, they're feats of Mjolnir, not Thor. In the second set of scans there, Thor never dodges anything, he gets HIT by the ship, endures it, then throws Mjolnir at it. Two non-feats.
😬 Thor spins Mjolnir and then his body at twice the speed of light. In what world is that a feat for Mjolnir exactly? Whenever I’ve seen Thor spin or swing Mjolnir at impressive speeds etc. it’s never been attributed to it.
You do realize that in the second set of scans they are moving at speeds multiple times faster than light. That entire sequence where Thor actively engages Skuttlebutt in combat is while they were moving at trans light speeds.
A non feat? GTFO. Way more impressive than anything Logan has done.
Originally posted by Ize19
Not a bad feat, but, seeing how the guy who WAS hit by Mjolnir wasn't killed, or knocked unconscious, just hurt, it doesn't look like that was a full speed Mjolnir. Here in this scan, Wolverine both dodges and helps Storm dodge one of Cyclop's optic blasts, which he sensed just a split second before it hit them:
Ares staying conscious somehow discredits it? Lawlz.
Originally posted by Ize19
Too bad it's not that impressive. Not only does the guy have time to cry out "Hey! What gives!" before Thor gets there, but, after the initial throw, we have no reference to Thor's placement, and we see the hammer make several loops, slowing it down. Quite frankly, from what we see, it's no more impressive than this scene:http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1290/uxmch37906.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8643/uxmch37907.jpg
That’s my bad. I didn’t mean to include that feat in the selection I posted. Still more impressive than the one you posted I'd argue. Doesn't matter, I meant to include this one:
Thor turns around and catches a speeding Silver Surfer by throat.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsWarlockandSilverSurfer13.jpg
From what I remember, Surfer and Warlock's strategy was to use hit and run tactics.
Originally posted by Ize19
You and Jinzin have already had this debate, but quite frankly, even if we give this scan its full weight, this would still be just ONE scan! One, out of a career spanning decades. Your side has posted not even one other scan of Thor exhibiting speed that is beyond the abilities of Wolverine, OR, and Gorgon, so this is simply an instance of SMvsFL, and as such, is not admissable.
😂 Oh please. I’ve posted more than one impressive feat for Thor.
You guys constantly ignoring them does not change the fact that they happened. Even Jinzin admits Thor has feats superior to Logan. Progress. 🙂
Originally posted by Ize19
That's great, the only problem is, CIS applies on this forum. Therefore, when Thor fights OR and Gorgon, he's going to hold back. An additional problem is, that even if Thor does hold back his strength, you have given all of one scan that suggests that he also holds back his speed against mortals. The rest of them? Yeah, they weren't convincing.
Yes, CIS applies. Unfortunately for you, there are enough examples to argue Thor will step up his game. I'm not arguing Thor blitzes Gorgon and Omega Red to death here. I’m arguing that he can, and will counter their speed advantage whether using tactics such as shock waves or stepping up his speed. With the full capacity in play, that is a valid argument. I personally rarely go this route and like commenting on averages, but I'm making an exception in this thread. 🙂
I love these arguments. I prove something but for some reason it doesn’t count. On the other hand, we have one scene where Wolverine is “too fast for Thor” which was proven false within that very same fight, and Wolverine’s faster than Thor. Out of curiosity, which scan in particular are you referring to?
Originally posted by Ize19
So, sorry, but until you provide evidence that Thor going full speed, without using his hammer to provide said speed, is too much for Wolverine, much less Gorgon, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, just because "he's Thor."
I already did. Exactly what scans had Mjolnir providing the speed? I’m not arguing Thor is going to blitz anyone, it’s just not how he likes to fight unless pissed/pushed/whatever, but I am arguing that Thor is more than sufficiently fast enough to counter Gorgon’s speed advantage.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusAnd somehow... Thor doing exactly that to just about every speedster that tried to rush/blitz him doesn't count, let alone his actual feats of independent superspeed reflexes...
I am arguing that Thor is more than sufficiently fast enough to counter Gorgon’s speed
... how silly of us. Gorgon > Hermes, Juvan, etc.
It all becomes clear to me now. Wolverithmetics Rule #124: "If one of Wolverine's opponents has superspeed, it outstrips any superspeed ever encountered/applied by anybody else... just because."
Faaaaan-tastic.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And somehow... Thor doing exactly that to just about every speedster that tried to rush/blitz him doesn't count, let alone his actual feats of independent superspeed reflexes...... how silly of us. Gorgon > Hermes, Juvan, etc.
It all becomes clear to me now. Wolverithmetics Rule #124: "If one of Wolverine's opponents has superspeed, it outstrips any superspeed ever encountered/applied by anybody else... just because."
Faaaaan-tastic.
👆
I just don't get it.
Thor's either beaten, caught, or countered every single speedster his encountered.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Yeah, but, y'know, Wolverine's too fast for him to deal with...... even though Thor caught him and hit him and wrecked him.
There is some sort of d i s c o n n e c t here I am not seeing. mhmm
Well, that never happened...but considering that Thor swung his hammer twice the speed of light, then his combat speed must be waaaay above any earth hero practically. I can buy that he doesn't go all out on earth heroes...it makes sense because he's not evil and doesn't want to obliterate them. But this would also mean that he is far beyond Hulk, Rulk, and pretty much anyone from Earth. Just sayin'. Do you have any scans that Thor can move BEYOND the speed of light consistantly? Because that would make his reflexes clearly faster than Logan's highest end showings. Heck, if you can prove that he is capable of FLYING past the speed of light, I would accept that as having beyond light-reflex combat speed because well..if he didn't have beyond lightspeed combat reflexes, he would constantly run into sh*t when flying past the speed of light. By the same logic, he would also need lightspeed reflexes to deal with the same problem flying at the exact speed of light. Whatever speed you can post him flying at should be logically accepted as evidence that he MUST have reflexes that are at whatever top speed he is capable of. Now, that doesn't mean he can actually swing his fists or move his body at the speed of light without using his powers to fly. Just that he could perceive any object moving at whatever top speed he is capable of reaching. Hence, he would most likely be able to react becuase he reacts when flying in order to avoid crashing into everything.
Just read a few things in the Thor respect thread that has me seriously doubting he has lightspeed combat reflexes or even reflexes as good as Logans....
I'm not sure I agree with that line of thinking entirely but here you go:
Before we move on to raw speed, first I'd like to showcase that despite outward appearances, Thor is quite maneuverable in flight.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AirAgility5.jpgHere he performs different types of complicated maneuvers with ease.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/AirAgility11.jpgHe even goes on to do a pinwheel around an incoming trans-Atlantic Jet.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/AirAgility12.jpgThor flies at a speed so great his practically invisible.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FlyInvisible.jpgThor changes direction with the speed of thought.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ReactsSpeedofThought.jpg
Note: This might also dispel any doubt that it is Thor himself who alters Mjolnir's course.As a frog, Thor shows a combination of both speed and maneuverability when he swoops in and grabs like faster than the eye could follow.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/Frog%20Thor/DefeatsLoki2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/Frog%20Thor/DefeatsLoki3.jpgThor flies around the world, overtaking plane after plane, to retrieve a specialist and is back in less than two hours.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/Mjolnir28.jpgThor flies is clocked at flying three times the speed of light.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/Mjolnir126.jpgThor illustrates faster than light speed when flies from the Earth to the Sun in mere moments.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/FlytoSun1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/FlytoSun2.jpgThor intercepts and overtakes the ship Skuttlebutt, who was moving at several times the speed of light.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FasterThanLight1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FasterThanLight2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FasterThanLight3.jpg
Originally posted by DeadlineGive me an example of one fight where Thor's depicted as fighting at superspeed.
You're wrong. there are at least several references in the respect thread.
Originally posted by Deadline
Because you keep lowballing them? No they are not a few.
Originally posted by DeadlineThey don't have to specifically exclude superspeed, since superspeed is not one of his powers that's included in his powerset in the first place.
Sure it does. I don't think any of those references imply that it excludes superspeed. Hes shown he can react with superspeed when he needs to.
Sorry man but I don't think the second sentence has any relevance.
Originally posted by DeadlineIt's a massive disadvantage against enemies who don't. He may be gravely injured or restrained by coils and unable to "go ape"
I don't see how thats a disadvantage because he'll hold back but if the shit hits the fan he goes ape.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Not bad.What about strength/damage output? How is he going to hurt Thor?
Also..... WHAT THE F*** is up with these add videos at the bottem of the page lately? Keeps dragging my scroll down and I can't get them to stop. 🙁
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Well, that never happened...but considering that Thor swung his hammer twice the speed of light, then his combat speed must be waaaay above any earth hero practically. I can buy that he doesn't go all out on earth heroes...it makes sense because he's not evil and doesn't want to obliterate them. But this would also mean that he is far beyond Hulk, Rulk, and pretty much anyone from Earth. Just sayin'. Do you have any scans that Thor can move BEYOND the speed of light consistantly? Because that would make his reflexes clearly faster than Logan's highest end showings. Heck, if you can prove that he is capable of FLYING past the speed of light, I would accept that as having beyond light-reflex combat speed because well..if he didn't have beyond lightspeed combat reflexes, he would constantly run into sh*t when flying past the speed of light. By the same logic, he would also need lightspeed reflexes to deal with the same problem flying at the exact speed of light. Whatever speed you can post him flying at should be logically accepted as evidence that he MUST have reflexes that are at whatever top speed he is capable of. Now, that doesn't mean he can actually swing his fists or move his body at the speed of light without using his powers to fly. Just that he could perceive any object moving at whatever top speed he is capable of reaching. Hence, he would most likely be able to react becuase he reacts when flying in order to avoid crashing into everything.Just read a few things in the Thor respect thread that has me seriously doubting he has lightspeed combat reflexes or even reflexes as good as Logans....
Flight logic doesn't make any sense.
First off Nascar champs can drive cars at over 200 mph. Do you think that they also have reflexes or agility to move at a comparible speed?
Jet fighters can fly at mach speeds... same difference.
Finally, Thor's Hammer is enchanted and shown to have maneuvarability able to zigzag at opponents in mid-air. Thor actually has a number of instances where he's almost run into shit while flying like when he was chasing down Black Knight.
Originally posted by jinzin
Give me an example of one fight where Thor's depicted as fighting at superspeed.
And what's your definition of "fighting at super speed" exactly?
Originally posted by jinzin
Nobody's lowballing, compared to his career they are.
Heh.
Originally posted by jinzin
They don't have to specifically exclude superspeed, since superspeed is not one of his powers that's included in his powerset in the first place.
Originally posted by jinzin
If Thor fought at superspeed, he could easily evade and contain opponents whom he fights without having to worry about hurting them at all/as much.
ermm facepalm
Lawlz. Have you been reading my posts? Thor chooses to fight at the level of his opponents. He likes a challenge. He enjoys testing his strength.
Seriously, what a ridiculous line of thinking. Are you going to argue next that Thor can't absorb energy? I mean, his only done it a dozen times compared to like 5000 appearances. And his never used it against the Hulk for example, despite it being a very useful tactic.
Hell, using this line of reasoning, Clark can't move at light speed. I mean, how many times has he done it compared to his appearances? As a matter of fact, hhow many times has even used super speed in combat in comparison to the times he hasn't or when it would have made a noticeable difference?
Averages matter. Frankly, I hold them in high regard, but you're going over the line. And the kicker is, you have no problem using a character's low showings as the basis of your argument when it suits you. Then, averages don't matter at all.
I wouldn't really have a problem if you at least acknowledged Thor's capabilities but you seem to be outright denying them and ignoring all evidence. No one's even arguing that Thor is too fast for the team or anything -I could if I wanted to- just that he is more than capable of countering their speed. Heck, I wouldn't even argue Thor's too fast for Wolverine in a thread, just that he has the capabilities necessary to get his hands on him or tag him.
Originally posted by jinzin
It's a massive disadvantage against enemies who don't. He may be gravely injured or restrained by coils and unable to "go ape"
crylaugh
Originally posted by Silent MasterQuoted for the phucking truth. 👆
I get it....Step 1 = Ask for scans
Step 2 = Makes excuses for why they don't count
Step 3 = Claim it's PIS
Step 4 = Claim it's the hammer
Step 5 = Strawman
Step 6 = Ignore what the scans show
Step 7 = Claim scans haven't been posted
Step 8 = Ask for scans
Originally posted by Silent Master
I get it....Step 1 = Ask for scans
Step 2 = Makes excuses for why they don't count
Step 3 = Claim it's PIS
Step 4 = Claim it's the hammer
Step 5 = Strawman
Step 6 = Ignore what the scans show
Step 7 = Claim scans haven't been posted
Step 8 = Ask for scans
It's like an unending cycle.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's like an unending cycle.
Does Thor even control the direction he is going when the echanted hammer drags him somewhere....if not then it wouldn`t even relate to combat speed. Can you please illustrate combat reflexes that are at light speed. Because all I`ve seen so far is Thor moving in a blur which Logan does on a regular basis.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Does Thor even control the direction he is going when the echanted hammer drags him somewhere....
Of course he does. He doesn't just throw and hang on. That hasn't been the case since like the Journey Into Mystery days. Thor changes direction by willing it.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/Mjolnir1.jpg
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
if not then it wouldn`t even relate to combat speed. Can you please illustrate combat reflexes that are at light speed. Because all I`ve seen so far is Thor moving in a blur which Logan does on a regular basis.
I personally don't think how fast a character travels is an indication of their actual movement speed. Thor's case is a bit, unique, for lack of a better word due to his method of travel though. It obviously shows that Thor has to have some superhuman speed and reflexes but I'd be hesitant to go further than that. I for example wouldn't argue a character can punch at light speed because they can fly at light speed.
Light speed combat speed? This is the best example Thor has:
Thor engages in combat with Skuttlebutt, dodging and attacking while they were traveling at speeds far faster than light.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FasterThanLight1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FasterThanLight2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FasterThanLight3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FasterThanLight4.jpg
Similar to what Bill and Surfer were doing.
