The Gorgon and Omega Red vs Thor in Melee Fight

Originally posted by Silent Master
If I'm ignorant and you agree with me........

What does that make you?

that makes you ignorant again because you dont follow the context of my posts and cant understand wtf am i talking about, my point is that thor can take the majority but i actually presented a vision based on pure feats of what can happen in that fight and how gorgon can actually beat thor also (omega red is not a factor in hand 2 hand vs thor), unlike some very smart people here who just say "OHHH THOR PUNCH GROUND TEAM KO"

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And what's your definition of "fighting at super speed" exactly?

Lawlz. Have you been reading my posts? Thor chooses to fight at the level of his opponents. He likes a challenge. He enjoys testing his strength.

Seriously, what a ridiculous line of thinking. Are you going to argue next that Thor can't absorb energy? I mean, his only done it a dozen times compared to like 5000 appearances. And his never used it against the Hulk for example, despite it being a very useful tactic.

Hell, using this line of reasoning, Clark can't move at light speed. I mean, how many times has he done it compared to his appearances? As a matter of fact, hhow many times has even used super speed in combat in comparison to the times he hasn't or when it would have made a noticeable difference?

Averages matter. Frankly, I hold them in high regard, but you're going over the line. And the kicker is, you have no problem using a character's low showings as the basis of your argument when it suits you. Then, averages don't matter at all.

I wouldn't really have a problem if you at least acknowledged Thor's capabilities but you seem to be outright denying them and ignoring all evidence. No one's even arguing that Thor is too fast for the team or anything -I could if I wanted to- just that he is more than capable of countering their speed. Heck, I wouldn't even argue Thor's too fast for Wolverine in a thread, just that he has the capabilities necessary to get his hands on him or tag him.

crylaugh

I try not to read your posts anymore as I'm afraid of what reading them may do to my brain as a byproduct of your endless fanboyism and stupidity.

Comparing Thor having superspeed to Mjolnir's ability to manipulate energy or Superman's superspeed?

And you're calling my reasoning ridiculous?
Mjolnir's energy manipulation is a DESCRIBED ability that has the feats to back it up.
Superman's superspeed is a DESCRIBED ability that has the feats to back it up.
Thor's supposed superspeed in combat on the otherhand is a Thor-hugging wet dream from a fanboy who doesn't want to look at his entire career on an objective level and it isn't that hard to figure out.

Superman's at least blitzed characters in depictions of superspeed, has super speed as a listed attribute, doesn't have a crutch like Mjolnir to help write off his super speed flight feats, and has CRAZY feats like building a whole town at superspeed.
You can't possibly think that a couple of random feats which MIGHT..... SUGGEST, Thor can move at "microsecond" speeds are enough to offset the entirety of his career alternatively... well... maybe YOU can but I digress...
And please, when Thor's gotten serious with Hulk he's blasted the hell out of him... I'll say it again... BLASTED the hell out of him, he hasn't blitzed him with overwhelming speed he hasn't been all over Hulk as some microsecond punching untouchable blur, he's BLASTED him... It's something he does in fights, a lot, something that's a decribed capability and ENTIRELY different than this insistance that he has superspeed in combat altogether, maybe he thinks it's a faster/more effective tactic than draining the energy from a being who can absorb energy too I don't know but that really doesn't matter as his energy absorbtion can at least be discussed as a possbility because of it's sheer existance. 😐

If you don't think Thor's too fast for Wolverine then what the hell are we arguing here?

The real issue here is that if you want to look at Thor's career and pretend that it's a great example of a character with superspeed as part of his powerset you're always going to find a lot of people here who disagree with you because it's not part of his described capabilities, and he doesn't have the feats necessary to back it up without question. And, if you want to leave it up to a few feats patched throughout his career that kind of suggest his speed IS something to discuss as uber, then your arguments really do lend themselves to the microscope which isn't a good thing when every street level and their mama dodges, deflects, and otherwise handles bullets, lazers and speedsters. 😬

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't think dodging or blocking lasers gives one faster than light reflexes or whatever. However, ODG and Jinzin apparently find it really impressive. Hence the scan.

By the way, from what I remember of that issue (Marvel Comic's PresentsIIRC), the light wasn't chasing or being aimed at Logan. It was splintering light created by the light and dark shadows colliding. Based on those scans (And when the two destroyed each other in the valley), they weren't light speed or anything. Humans could perceive/track/dodge the beams. I recall one Asian dude doing it.

Yeah, at first, the light just splinters, hence why it doesn't hit everyone that watches the fight (which is what you are referring to with the Asian guy, since he doesn't actively dodge it.) However, if you read those scans more carefully, then you can see that the light IS seeking them out: "I could feel the light singein' my neck hairs. It was closin' in. Scratch that! It was already here!" Wolverine was running, jumping, rolling, it didn't matter, the light kept on following him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, that’s completely different from what I posted and not nearly as impressive. Thor dodges an actual telepathic blast which would be completely independent from the Phoenix’s own physical reflexes as far as I know. On the other hand, Logan doesn’t outrace her psychic attack. She just can’t predict or keep up with Logan’s speed which makes sense. Telepathy doesn’t grant one impressive reflexes. It’s independent from physical speed. It’s why dodging a telepathic blast is far more impressive than out fighting one. Telepathy is nearly instantaneous for the most part in comics. The speed of telepaths and even their thought speed for whatever reason however doesn’t go hand in hand with it from what I’ve seen.

Are you reading the scans you’re posting? How is that more impressive? Due to Logan’s experience, training etc. he can move instinctually.

I mean really, how else do you think a character can operate by moving faster than he himself can think? ermm

Are you sure you want to critique MY reading comprehension? Read the first scan again - she tells Wolverine that she "knows your moves before you make them," then she misses, then Wolverine responds that she's never fought anybody for whom thought and action are one. In other words, she uses her telepathy to read his next move, but he moves so fast that the speed at which she does so isn't enough. And no, Rachel's telepathy was not instantaneous. Your scans clearly showed her blast traveling to reach Thor, instead of instantly appearing on Thor. Even the narration in the second scan shows this- her blast RACES towards Thor.

As for my second scan, I would think it'd be obvious. You post a scan of Thor blocking thoughts, I post a scan of Wolverine moving faster than thought. Don't forget, in your scan, Thor's reflexes were attributed to instinct as well.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
😬 Thor spins Mjolnir and then his body at twice the speed of light. In what world is that a feat for Mjolnir exactly? Whenever I’ve seen Thor spin or swing Mjolnir at impressive speeds etc. it’s never been attributed to it.

You do realize that in the second set of scans they are moving at speeds multiple times faster than light. That entire sequence where Thor actively engages Skuttlebutt in combat is while they were moving at trans light speeds.

A non feat? GTFO. Way more impressive than anything Logan has done.

Yet again, your reading comprehension fails you. What is it Thor says? "Stand back! I have no time machine to travel in, but my HAMMER (emphasis mine) will serve me well!" Not only that, but there is also this, taken from Thor's own respect thread:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir09-TimeTravel.jpg

What did that say? Oh yeah: "Hast thou forgotten, my son? Thy HAMMER (emphasis mine) has the power to spin faster than light -- to enter the fourth dimension of -- time!" But somehow, when he uses this same power later, it's his speed, not his hammers 🙄

Really, the entire sequence? You mean the sequence where, MJOLNIR brings Thor to the Skuttlebutt, the Skuttlebutt HITS him with an energy bolt, he then throws MJOLNIR at the Skuttlebutt, and, only when MJOLNIR has returned to him, does he fly down to it? Yeah, Thor was WAY more impressive than Wolverine there. Oh wait, that's not right. MJOLNIR was.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Ares staying conscious somehow discredits it? Lawlz.

Discredit that it was fast? Not at all, I admitted as much. Discredit that it was at its fastest? Well, considering that in the microsecond reaction time feat, Thor didn't think he'd have another chance to strike his opponent if he was struck with Mjolnir, yeah, I'd say it wasn't going top speed there.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That’s my bad. I didn’t mean to include that feat in the selection I posted. Still more impressive than the one you posted I'd argue. Doesn't matter, I meant to include this one:

From what I remember, Surfer and Warlock's strategy was to use hit and run tactics.

No worries. Yeah, maybe, but my point was that it was so ambiguous, you couldn't tell either way. And yeah, that one is much more impressive, although Surfer had suffered some damage already during that fight, so it would be hard to quantify just how fast he was moving in that scan. Still, as I've got no proof as to how much he was slowed down, I guess that makes two instances.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
😂 Oh please. I’ve posted more than one impressive feat for Thor.

You guys constantly ignoring them does not change the fact that they happened. Even Jinzin admits Thor has feats superior to Logan. Progress. 🙂

Also, how exactly am I "ignoring" the feats you posted? I looked at both posts that Thor's side made, that gave feats you specifically claimed surpassed Wolverine's best, and I responded to EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM! You can say I didn't read them properly, or that I didn't give them the credit they deserved (both of which I'd disagree with), but you CAN'T say that I ignored them!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, CIS applies. Unfortunately for you, there are enough examples to argue Thor will step up his game. I'm not arguing Thor blitzes Gorgon and Omega Red to death here. I’m arguing that he can, and will counter their speed advantage whether using tactics such as shock waves or stepping up his speed. With the full capacity in play, that is a valid argument. I personally rarely go this route and like commenting on averages, but I'm making an exception in this thread. 🙂

I love these arguments. I prove something but for some reason it doesn’t count. On the other hand, we have one scene where Wolverine is “too fast for Thor” which was proven false within that very same fight, and Wolverine’s faster than Thor. Out of curiosity, which scan in particular are you referring to?

Really? Then how come you can't post them? I'm sorry, but Thor owning a few random, skilless speedsters is hardly proof that Thor can hang with Gorgon, especially when Wolverine has the same kind of feats, and Gorgon already proved that in a fair fight, both he and Elektra were unable to!

Lol, so, I match every feat you post but one (maybe two), and somehow you've still "proved" Thor is too fast for Wolverine. Meanwhile, we have a scan where Thor admits Wolverine's superiority in speed, in a comic where the writer acknowledges that one of Wolverine's advantages is speed, but only your feats are valid? And I don't know why you'd be curious, since I clearly identified every feat you guys posted where Thor relied on his hammer for speed. You even responded to two of them, lol. What's wrong, having short term memory problems?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I already did. Exactly what scans had Mjolnir providing the speed? I’m not arguing Thor is going to blitz anyone, it’s just not how he likes to fight unless pissed/pushed/whatever, but I am arguing that Thor is more than sufficiently fast enough to counter Gorgon’s speed advantage.

Asked and answered.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I get it....

Step 1 = Ask for scans
Step 2 = Makes excuses for why they don't count
Step 3 = Claim it's PIS
Step 4 = Claim it's the hammer
Step 5 = Strawman
Step 6 = Ignore what the scans show
Step 7 = Claim scans haven't been posted
Step 8 = Ask for scans

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Will this ever end!?

This is like a bad recurring nightmare!

crybaby

Originally posted by Prep-Man
This is like a bad recurring nightmare!

crybaby

Originally posted by Ize19

Good job Ize, you never post much, but when you do it's always worth the read. thumbsup

I already have!

Originally posted by Prep-Man
This is like a bad recurring nightmare!

crybaby

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It never ends.

Prove I'm making excuses instead of reading the scans correctly. Prove that the I'm wrong about the scans I've proved are the hammer. Prove that I've used one strawman argument. Prove that I've ignored what the scans show. Please show a little bit of respect, like Rage of Olympus finally did, and actually engage in dialogue with us, instead of dismissing our arguments with a trite quote that seeks to belittle us for not accepting your word as gospel and actually challenging your interpretation of events.

just Lol at the people who claim thor reacted to speedsters therefor he is a speedster... do i need to go with you all on the basics? wolverine reacted to speed demon and other speedsters but unlike thor he not only reacted to thembut actually outfought them while they were using there speed so what now? wolverine is a legit speedster? is that the thor fan(boy)s side now? being hypocrites? you know what punisher and cap built there career on tagging and beating characters far faster so they are also legit speedsters?

we see the characters as they are presented on there basis and how they fight overall, superman is a speedster you can find many fight where he SPEED BLITZ while fighting, spider-man got feats where he speed blitzing while he is fighting.. see my point? reacting to someone who suppose to be faster just for the sake of the fight to be interesting is the good ol PIS dont pretend you know nothing about that

the real comics thor NOT the kmc wanked all over thor but the real marvel comics thor is no speedster in combat he is the guy that when it comes down to hand 2 hand is just sluging it out with his opponent bar fight style thats it , if thor was speedster fast in combat he wouldnt get screwed by kurse and hulk all the time, wolverine is faster than hulk in combat and he shows that in combat, spider-man is faster than hulk in combat he shows that in there fight... thor? thor is same combat speed as hulk kurse and all those bricks and thats exactly what he shows

Originally posted by Ize19
Prove I'm making excuses instead of reading the scans correctly. Prove that the I'm wrong about the scans I've proved are the hammer. Prove that I've used one strawman argument. Prove that I've ignored what the scans show. Please show a little bit of respect, like Rage of Olympus finally did, and actually engage in dialogue with us, instead of dismissing our arguments with a trite quote that seeks to belittle us for not accepting your word as gospel and actually challenging your interpretation of events.

Thor deals with superspeedsters.

Thor has superior and more superspeed reflex feats than Wolverine whether it's dealing with speedsters, high speed attacks, etc.

You want to cry more about that? Well, you've had 60+ pages to do so just in this thread and no end to any number of other phail-bait threads. What you don't get is that your arbitrary dismissals are carver9-lite when he does it with Superman or jinzin-lite when it comes to Wonder Woman (or it used to before some miracle). Because even those characters' speed feats aren't ever enough (until by some miracle, they suddenly are). What makes you think that us offering evidence in the first instance, the second instance, to you will actually be treated as such?

Miracles are few and far between. And curing the arbitrary stupidity in this thread isn't one we're betting on. And it isn't even worth it. It's only worth the hilarity that ensues every once in a while.

Originally posted by jinzin
Good job Ize, you never post much, but when you do it's always worth the read. thumbsup

Thanks, buddy! That's quite the compliment, coming from you!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Shut up and learn to read the scans. Stringing sentences together doesn't disprove the existence of straight facts:

Thor deals with superspeedsters.

Thor has superior and more superspeed reflex feats than Wolverine whether it's dealing with speedsters, high speed attacks, etc.

You want to cry more about that? Well, you've had 60+ pages to do so just in this thread and no end to any number of other phail-bait threads. What you don't get is that your arbitrary dismissals are carver9-lite when he does it with Superman or jinzin-lite when it comes to Wonder Woman (or it used to before some miracle). Because even those characters' speed feats aren't ever enough (ntil by some miracle, they suddenly are). What makes you think that us offering evidence in the first instance, the second instance, to you will actually be treated as such?

Miracles are far and few between. And curing the arbitrary stupidity in this thread isn't one we're betting on. And it isn't even worth it. It's only worth the hilarity that ensues every once in a while.

No, and take your own advice. Neither do witty posts which belittle the intelligence of your opposition.

Wolverine and Gorgon do too.

No he doesn't, and we've proven it by matching his feats again and again, in thread after thread.

Once again, Thor is a character who does not have superspeed listed as one of his attributes, making him different from Superman and Wonder Woman. What arbitrary dismissals are you talking about? Care to actually prove your baseless claims, instead of taking them for granted? Gee, I don't know, how about because we've read, analyzed, and responded to every feat you've posted thus far?

More attempts at wit, and general baloney that our side could claim as well, only we don't because we actually bother to make arguments, not simply dismissals, despite your projections.

/

Originally posted by Silent Master
I get it....

Step 1 = Ask for scans
Step 2 = Makes excuses for why they don't count
Step 3 = Claim it's PIS
Step 4 = Claim it's the hammer
Step 5 = Strawman
Step 6 = Ignore what the scans show
Step 7 = Claim scans haven't been posted
Step 8 = Ask for scans

QFT.

Never ending phucking story, this:

"Show me scans of Thor moving at superspeed!"

"Okay, here." *puts up multiple scans*

"Nah, they don't count, he didn't use his skills like Wolverine would have."

"Based on what exactly?"

"Wolverine and his feats."

"...riiiight. Here are more scans."

"Nope! Don't count! It's all bullshit because of his plot device hammer."

"Wha-"

"Or the Odinforce! Yeah, his godpowers don't stinkin' count!"

"That doesn't even make any-"

"You're just being biased here, voting against Wolverine because you don't like him."

"But this thread is about Gorgon and Omega Red..."

"Yeah, that's what I said. Wolverine."

"WTF?"

"So, how about them scans of Thor's speed? You haven't posted any. yet."

Originally posted by Ize19
No, and take your own advice. Neither do witty posts which belittle the intelligence of your opposition.

Wolverine and Gorgon do too.

Originally posted by Ize19
No he doesn't, and we've proven it by matching his feats again and again, in thread after thread.

Originally posted by Ize19
Once again, Thor is a character who does not have superspeed listed as one of his attributes, making him different from Superman and Wonder Woman. What arbitrary dismissals are you talking about? Care to actually prove your baseless claims, instead of taking them for granted? Gee, I don't know, how about because we've read, analyzed, and responded to every feat you've posted thus far?

More attempts at wit, and general baloney that our side could claim as well, only we don't because we actually bother to make arguments, not simply dismissals, despite your projections.

Pretending Thor doesn't have the feats where he steps up his reflexes to deal with such threats is ignorance.

Pretending Wolverine's speed feats outnumber Thor's is bullsh1t.

Pretending that Wonder Woman/Superman can be brought down to Batman's levels, or Flash can be brought down to Deathstroke's levels... and yet... Thor somehow must be immune to being brought down to Wolverine's levels, and when he isn't, it disproves everything? Seriously, stfu with this hypocritical nonsense.

Originally posted by Ize19

Once again, Thor is a character who does not have superspeed listed as one of his attributes

this statement, despite having nothing to do with the thread as what is shown is used over what is "listed", is also untrue

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Pretending that Wonder Woman/Superman can be brought down to Batman's levels, or Flash can be brought down to Deathstroke's levels... and yet... Thor somehow must be immune to being brought down to Wolverine's levels, and when he isn't, it disproves everything?

I'd love to see a Battlezone go down with a host of judges at the ready to settle this shit.

only that flash wonder woman and superman got feats to prove they are speedsters IN COMBAT they all have many feats to show they are overcoming someone with greater fighting speed or dealing with multiple opponents at the same time, thor never presented any feats to suggest he can speed blitz someone in fighting his only feats are matching someone who is suppose to be faster just for the sake of the interesting fight , its the same thing as street levelers fighting spidy or death stroke fighting flash again your side proves to be hypocrites