show me some evidence, evidence, and evidence

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Gravity is a theory that can be tested, with predictable results.

Spiritual faith is:
A) Often nothing to do with religion
B) In constant flux and is a human subjective perceptory thing located to the "believer"

Gravity is:
A) Testable
B) Seeable, thanks to spectrography and noting gravitys bending of light via the wavelengths of light being altered as light travels through the field.

I think the question, to put it back to you, is:
"What is it that you think that the two have in common at all?"

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
i can see gravity actually affecting the world 😬 😆

drop a pen... gravity
jump... gravity

Well I guess judging by 9/11, the bloody history of Ireland, The crusades, Institutional Paedophillia in faith organisations, The middle east, Slavery, The Nazis, Genocide and the whole other litany of horrors going back to the bible and before it with all previous religions,
we can see the effects of religion on the world of humans that give religion its "power" too.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Gravity is a theory that can be tested, with predictable results.

Spiritual faith is:
A) Often nothing to do with religion
B) In constant flux and is a human subjective perceptory thing located to the "believer"

Gravity is:
A) Testable
B) Seeable, thanks to spectrography and noting gravitys bending of light via the wavelengths of light being altered as light travels through the field.

I think the question, to put it back to you, is:
"What is it that you think that the two have in common at all?"

Spiritual faith
A) Religion is the practise of spiritual faith. I am in no way part of organized religion, but I'm still religious because of my faith in spirituality.
B) Something being subjective doesn't make it false, though. My faith give me strength in ways gravity or a lack of faith never would. I know this since I've lived without it.

Gravity
A) I've had my faith tested and it pulled through. In the darkest of hours, my faith has glown brighter than gravity could ever pull.
B) Like how I've seen the hand of fate move entire philosophies of life. Not through scientific material, of course.

To answer your question: Existence. Simple, eh?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
i can see gravity actually affecting the world 😬 😆

drop a pen... gravity
jump... gravity

I can see faith affecting the world.

A) Nope its the organised, practice of worshipping unquestioning fashion a deity.
B) That barely washes even in "All truths are True no matter how contradictory they all are' debates, that is another in built command in religion. There is only one truth. Nothing else is true.

A) So? You just left a steaming coil of non sequitor in that part.
So if your faith is stronger than gravity, jump out of the window.
And see if you fall..
B) Second bit didn't actually make a lick of sense.

I say modern knowledge of that existance contradicts religion.
Prove otherwise.

So do I. And its not for the good, either, as I listed in my previous post.

Q'Anilia LOL 😆 you're hilarious

you see faith affecting our world? how so? does praying have a 100% success rate? nope
has faith stopped a war? nope
_____________________________

lol you saying existence is proof of god?
😆 plz o plz elaborate this one

I've had my faith tested and it pulled through. In the darkest of hours, my faith has glown brighter than gravity could ever pull... wow, just wow

Spiritual Faith
A) Yes, it is. Nothing about religion dictate it has to be organized, or even the worship of a deity.
B) False as well. There's no decree, not cosmic, universal nor human, that there is only one truth. I have not been saying that there is no false, so I am crossing my fingers that is not what you imply. A contradiction can be true as well, so even that is false. If you do not acknowledge this, I can provide examples of multiple truths and of true contradictions.

Gravity
A) But you are not saying that my experience is false. Only that I do not have science to back it up.
B) It very much does. I've seen people change their way of life, even gained religion. Faith has picked them up when they were down and fading. I have seen this.
I assume you have two different definitions of seeing, though, since my seeing might not be the kind of seeing you have in mind?

To quote myself not many posts ago: "I know this is not proof of any kind to you" and "Faith is my proof". I could also reference to my fundamental princips of faith, but I think you remember those.

I have seen religion do good. If you claim otherwise, then you express ignorance. Religion has done a great deal of wrong, it's done a great deal of evil, but so has science. That does not mean science does not affect the world.

In fact, Science has harmed the world and its people more than Religion ever has.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Q'Anilia LOL 😆 you're hilarious

you see faith affecting our world? how so?

Sadako of Girth sees it too. Why not laugh at him while you're at it? Because he's helping your case and I'm not?

science hasn't harmed anything . man has harmed the world man & their halfazzed beliefs 😬
whatever it is

faith may be helpful for a false sense of something... like sugar pills.
when in reality you always had the ability to change your circumstances.

things change what's so hard to understand?

why are you still comparing faith & gravity 😬

faith - believing in something without no evidence whatsoever

not comparable to gravity at all 😬

Sadako of Girth sees it too. Why not laugh at him while you're at it? Because he's helping your case and I'm not?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Q'Anilia LOL 😆 you're hilarious

you see faith affecting our world? how so? does praying have a 100% success rate? nope
has faith stopped a war? nope
_____________________________

lol you saying existence is proof of god?
😆 plz o plz elaborate this one

I've had my faith tested and it pulled through. In the darkest of hours, my faith has glown brighter than gravity could ever pull... wow, just wow

You're here to troll, aren't you? No matter, I welcome a good discussion any day. A second perspective on faith might do you some good, as it has done to me.

How I see faith affecting the world, is through Christian and otherwise organizations that actively help the ones in need. Some for the wrong reason, but they still help. I see suicide cases turn their lives around because of God. I see societies having functioned and currently functioning because of a joint faith in the mighty God.

Does sitting and hoping for luck have a 100% success rate? Nope. Yet many atheists does this. Funnily enough, many express faith in fate when they do this. An atheist can clutch his hands and hope for luck to come through when his dying wife lies in a hospital bed. Expression of faith, religious or not.

I find it entertaining how often when a topic about if religion is good often resort to talking about war and death. I am sorry to say it, but science has stopped as few wars as religion has. From the top of my head, I can not think of one war that science has won.

I suppose you could talk about the nuclear bombing of Japan, but I don't see how that will help your case. For faith and wars ended through it, the only real reference I can make is Gandhi and the Brittish Empire. It's anything but him alone that ended the whole drama, but faith was of great contribution to the result. His faith and the practise of non-violence. Which is a faith as well 🙂

I am not saying existence is proof of God. I don't believe in God. I'm not saying he doesn't exist, since I can't prove this to be true, but I have little to no faith in him. I do in many of his followers though, but that's a different matter.

I'm saying existing is what faith and gravity has in common, which was the question. The question wasn't about God 😉

You mock my faith? That doesn't look good on your record for any discussion. It's one thing to doubt or not believe the faith of another, and a whole other to make fun of it. I suggest you stop, or you WILL get in trouble.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
science hasn't harmed anything . man has harmed the world man & their halfazzed beliefs 😬
whatever it is

faith may be helpful for a false sense of something... like sugar pills.
when in reality you always had the ability to change your circumstances.

things change what's so hard to understand?

why are you still comparing faith & gravity 😬

faith - believing in something without no evidence whatsoever

not comparable to gravity at all 😬 sees what? i would laugh at him if he were being a absurdly typical blind religious buff going on about how his faith is stronger than gravity 😆

You don't realize the contradiction in your beliefs?

Science itself has not harmed anyone. NEITHER HAS RELIGION. It's people that harm eachother, through the use of science or religion. And through the use of science, more has died than there ever has through the use of religion.

"False sense of something"? That's hitting the nail on the head.
A false sense of significance? A false sense of mattering? A false sense of not being a pawn? A false sense of reason for being? You'll have to elaborate.

If you always have had it in you to change the circumstances of your situation, you would not need faith. Faith would not exist. Faith exist because some people need it, and because these people need it, it's needed.

I am comparing faith to gravity, because gravity was brought up as an example and a metaphor for science. Comparing gravity to faith, is putting religion up against science, but in a far more earthbound manner. By comparing faith to gravity, it's easier to associate, for everyone.

Faith - Believing. The rest of your definition is redundant, since all it does is put it in a negative light. It doesn't give it another meaning, or turn it into another word. It doesn't give a better understanding of what faith is, so you might as well keep it simple.

He sees that religion affects the world. How he sees it, you'll have to take up with him. All I know is that when I said I see it, you laugh, but when he said he does, you don't acknowledge it at all. You're out to question me, not the topic, it seems.

troll? im not the one saying my faith is stronger than gravity.
my thread is asking for this evidence of god which nobody has presented yet,only in the form of faith which can be applied to every fairytale. me laughing at your faith is not the same as mocking so don't even pull that card. sitting & waiting for 100% success rate? WTF are you talking about they do studies & trails 😬
you're just saying stuff lol

you don't believe in god but don't not believe in him 😆 wow
you believe in his followers who happen to be men following a god.

LMAO wow your ridiculously long posts saying nothing except
you have no scientific proof of a god. faith is stronger than gravity.and that you seeing people getting better is a sign that faith helps which ive said before... sugar pills

So you're an agnostic then, Q'Anilia?

Science made guns.

Science made the longbow.

Science did indeeed end the japanese effeorts of WW2.

Youre actually reading this on technology that helped fight and win wars, than science made...a computer monitor.

And the crucial thing that you overlook is that Religion CAUSES war, where as Science hasn't.

If you go down the road of comparing relgion to guns in the "Guns dont kill people, People do." sense, I'd ask you to compare the amount of shootings in the US to the amount of shootings in the UK.

People will always fight, but it helps reduce the killing, if guns are removed. 🙂

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
thats evidence? wow all the magical workings of god summed up in 1 word 😆 nice one

You can't. I can't. This is where faith comes into play. I have faith that God exists, that's all I need. There is literally no way to prove or disprove Gods existence.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
so you know without a doubt there is a god? but cant present any evidence. thats odd 🙄

Go ahead, we'll wait......

You don't realize the contradiction in your beliefs?

science hasn't harmed anything . man has harmed the world man & their halfazzed beliefs

you frustrating me sigh congratulations

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, I got an idea, prove he DOESN'T exist.

Go ahead, we'll wait......

seems the answers no down the board. to a normal mind it would seem there isnt one 😆

unless you can do either of those

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So you're an agnostic then, Q'Anilia?

Science made guns.

Science made the longbow.

Science did indeeed end the japanese effeorts of WW2.

Youre actually reading this on technology that helped fight and win wars, than science made...a computer monitor.

And the crucial thing that you overlook is that Religion CAUSES war, where as Science hasn't.

I am agnostic, but I am also religious. I would love to elaborate on this further down the road, but I have to leave now 🙂

I will give you that science has ended war. I apologize for that display of ignorance. I was just so caught up in the loose definition of science and religion not being so much responsible as the humans behind them, that my mind digressed a little.

I will add, however, what I should've from the start but I can't imagine I really have to: You can not create a parallel between science and religion. At least not with many outside the belief of creationism.

So discussing how much good/bad religion/science has done for the world, is really not the most effective nor intelligent way to discuss the matter. I think we can agree on that, since it doesn't at all contribute to the topic. It can in no way "answer the question"

For now, bye all 🙂

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I am agnostic, but I am also religious. I would love to elaborate on this further down the road, but I have to leave now 🙂

I will give you that science has ended war. I apologize for that display of ignorance. I was just so caught up in the loose definition of science and religion not being so much responsible as the humans behind them, that my mind digressed a little.

I will add, however, what I should've from the start but I can't imagine I really have to: You can not create a parallel between science and religion. At least not with many outside the belief of creationism.

So discussing how much good/bad religion/science has done for the world, is really not the most effective nor intelligent way to discuss the matter. I think we can agree on that, since it doesn't at all contribute to the topic. It can in no way "answer the question"

For now, bye all 🙂

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, I got an idea, prove he DOESN'T exist.

Go ahead, we'll wait......

Right after you prove that theres not a sky fairy pulling the puppet you call god's strings.

Due the religious are the ones making the big wild unsubstantiated claims...burden (And that is SOME burden) is yours, dude.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
can you see god? no
can you smell god?
can you touch god?
can you hear god?

seems the answers no down the board. to a normal mind it would seem there isnt one 😆

unless you can do either of those

See, if I were going around preaching the gospel to others, trying to convert them, you'd have a right to ask me to prove God's existence. Thing is, I don't do that because I realize it's a futile effort. God is all about free will, it's one of the greatest gifts he gave us. If I go around trying to change someone's beliefs, I'm messing with their free will. The journey to discovering God, IMO, is a personal one.

I have faith in God because of certain events that happened to me in my early 20's. Since then I have been Christian, my faith[i] unshakable. It's not like God came down one day and bought me a cheeseburger haermm

Now, there you have it. You have my reason as to why I am not obligated to prove God exists. You also have my reason for being a Christian.

Now.....When you ask the forum for evidence of God's existence, you place yourself in the position of [i]disproving his existence, for the simple fact that you ask for proof.

So......Where's your proof of his non existence? That you cannot see, touch, hear or smell him? Dude that's WEAK. It's like you saying "Hey, cheese gives you herpes!!!!" and I say "No, it doesn't. Prove it."

Prove it.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I am agnostic, but I am also religious. I would love to elaborate on this further down the road, but I have to leave now 🙂

I will give you that science has ended war. I apologize for that display of ignorance. I was just so caught up in the loose definition of science and religion not being so much responsible as the humans behind them, that my mind digressed a little.

I will add, however, what I should've from the start but I can't imagine I really have to: You can not create a parallel between science and religion. At least not with many outside the belief of creationism.

So discussing how much good/bad religion/science has done for the world, is really not the most effective nor intelligent way to discuss the matter. I think we can agree on that, since it doesn't at all contribute to the topic. It can in no way "answer the question"

For now, bye all 🙂

I disagree on your closing point.

Science cannot be ignored, and trying to shame everyone into ignoring science here wont help your argument. (I know that it contradicts religion, and its real, so that doesnt suit the Religious side's argument, but since the irony is that any evidence that IS evidence should stand up to scrutiny....) 🙂

(Unlike God, in all likelihood.)