Originally posted by TacDaveyIf I was sadistic enough to put my stuffed animals through what God puts the human race through, my sadism would probably extend to family members as well.
Would you send your own child to die so you wouldn't have to throw away your stuffed animals?
EDIT: This is, of course, assuming these stuffed animals were designed by me to be sentient and to feel pain....
Originally posted by TacDavey
Would you send your own child to die so you wouldn't have to throw away your stuffed animals?God's actions may sometimes seem cruel to us, but you have to remember that He is all loving and all just. He has to punish wrong. He doesn't want us to suffer.
At any rate, I'll be absent for a few days. So don't rack up too many posts while I'm gone. 😛
Originally posted by Quark_666
If I was sadistic enough to put my stuffed animals through what God puts the human race through, my sadism would probably extend to family members as well.EDIT: This is, of course, assuming these stuffed animals were designed by me to be sentient and to feel pain....
Most of the pain and suffering that takes place in this world is done by man.
Originally posted by King Kandy
What a cop-out. You can't just declare a god to be all just by definition; by that logic, all religions are all-just. Obviously, the fact that they declare transparently unjust deeds as "all just", demonstrates the limited intelligence and critical thinking of the biblical writers.
It's not a cop out. The God of the Bible is all just. That's what He is. If God does something unjust, then He is not the God of the Bible. And if the God of the Bible does exist, then He cannot do something unjust. At that point it's just a matter of debating which God is the true God. Which is really another debate completely.
Originally posted by TacDavey
It's not a cop out. The God of the Bible is all just. That's what He is. If God does something unjust, then He is not the God of the Bible. And if the God of the Bible does exist, then He cannot do something unjust. At that point it's just a matter of debating which God is the true God. Which is really another debate completely.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Most of the pain and suffering that takes place in this world is done by man.
Yes humans named AIDS, starvation, cancer, tornado, earthquake, tsunami, freezing to death . . .
Originally posted by TacDavey
[B]It's not a cop out. The God of the Bible is all just. That's what He is.
No, the God of the Bible is a creature that claims to be all just but never presents any evidence to that effect. Anyone can do that.
I, Symmetric Chaos, am all just. By the standard you have set I have proven that, by definition, my actions are perfect and just. Now if I ever do anything unjust I don't exist. But obviously I do exist, therefore everything I do must be just by definition.
Originally posted by BloodRain
An infinite punishment for a human amount of sins. Hell says god is unjust. Just saying.
I don't see it that way. There is no "human amount of sin". Sin is sin.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Completely wrong. Again, the bible is a book written by HUMANS. Even if it was TOLD to them by God, the writers had no way of proving that claim. So they can not be taken as a true authority on the subject, any more than anyone else who writes down a vision can be.
God worked through the writers to make it. Like I said, I think that the God written about in the Bible is true. You can disagree, but you cannot claim that the God of the Bible is unjust. At best you can claim that the God of the Bible is not the real God/ not an accurate representation of God. And, like I said, that comes down to a debate on which religion/representation of God is accurate.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes humans named AIDS, starvation, cancer, tornado, earthquake, tsunami, freezing to death . . .
I said most. Obviously that means that man is not in complete control of every bad thing that happens. I don't know if I would consider natural disasters/ diseases evil though. Bad, sure, but not evil.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No, the God of the Bible is a creature that claims to be all just but never presents any evidence to that effect. Anyone can do that.I, Symmetric Chaos, am all just. By the standard you have set I have proven that, by definition, my actions are perfect and just. Now if I ever do anything unjust I don't exist. But obviously I do exist, therefore everything I do must be just by definition.
Good. Now give me good reason to believe what you have written is true and I'll believe you.
Originally posted by TacDavey
I don't see it that way. There is no "human amount of sin". Sin is sin.
Or a person that has never heard of religion or a Muslim in a highly religious community should spend eternity in hell? Doesn't seem just to me. A human lifetime of sin would not warrant the infinity of hell.
Originally posted by TacDavey
I said most. Obviously that means that man is not in complete control of every bad thing that happens. I don't know if I would consider natural disasters/ diseases evil though. Bad, sure, but not evil.
In your view God makes them (what with being all powerful) so they are his evils.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Good. Now give me good reason to believe what you have written is true and I'll believe you.
And what evidence did God show you?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In your view God makes them (what with being all powerful) so they are his evils.And what evidence did God show you?
Well, by the logic Tac Davey is going by, all you need to do is call me and tell me that you are all just. Then I'll write a book about how you are infallible, all loving, and all just. At which point, no matter what you do, you are just and right. I'll get right on that so feel free to kill everyone who doesn't believe you are the Almighty.
Now see how ridculous that sounds?
Originally posted by BloodRain
So its just that, for instance, a man that commits adultery for a month deserves to spend eternity being brutally punished?Or a person that has never heard of religion or a Muslim in a highly religious community should spend eternity in hell? Doesn't seem just to me. A human lifetime of sin would not warrant the infinity of hell.
No. A person who has never heard of religion is not necessarily condemned to hell.
If someone sins and doesn't repent or ask for forgiveness that sin doesn't just go away. It has to be punished. You feel the punishment is not just, but God disagrees.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In your view God makes them (what with being all powerful) so they are his evils.
Like I said. I see no reason to consider them evil.
Edit: That is to say, I see no reason to consider them unnecessary evils. You are presupposing that God allows them to exist for no other reason than to promote suffering and harm. I see no reason to think this is true.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And what evidence did God show you?
Evidence supporting the Bible is another discussion completely. The point is I am not claiming God is all just for no other reason than someone wrote that He was.
Originally posted by Quark_666
I thought God was everywhere.
Yes. That's right.
Originally posted by socool8520
Well, by the logic Tac Davey is going by, all you need to do is call me and tell me that you are all just. Then I'll write a book about how you are infallible, all loving, and all just. At which point, no matter what you do, you are just and right. I'll get right on that so feel free to kill everyone who doesn't believe you are the Almighty.Now see how ridculous that sounds?
That is pretty ridiculous. Thankfully that is not what I was saying at all.
Originally posted by TacDavey
No. A person who has never heard of religion is not necessarily condemned to hell.If someone sins and doesn't repent or ask for forgiveness that sin doesn't just go away. It has to be punished. You feel the punishment is not just, but God disagrees.
So giving people who don't believe in him a free pass? Thats a nice loophole.
When is infinity ever a fair thing for a benevolent being? "You cheated on your wife so burn for eternity" The guy just likes to see things burn..
Originally posted by Quark_666
And I thought he was supposed to be the creator of the universe.
Yes, that's right.
Originally posted by BloodRain
So giving people who don't believe in him a free pass? Thats a nice loophole.
I said not necessarily. If a person finds themselves in a situation were they cannot learn about God or Christianity but they are still "good" then they should be alright as far as I know.
Originally posted by BloodRain
When is infinity ever a fair thing for a benevolent being? "You cheated on your wife so burn for eternity" The guy just likes to see things burn..
To be fair, it's really more: "you cheated on your wife and did not repent/ask for forgiveness and turned away from God."
Still, if you consider the punishment unfair there is likely little I can do to change your mind. We'll just have to disagree on that point.
Originally posted by TacDavey
To be fair, it's really more: "you cheated on your wife and did not repent/ask for forgiveness and turned away from God."Still, if you consider the punishment unfair there is likely little I can do to change your mind. We'll just have to disagree on that point.
It's not the torture so much as the inconsistency. You don't get to torture people over a minor issue (you were once rude to a parent) and claim to be merciful. The torturing people for no good reason just shows that you worship a disgustingly egotistical and actively malicious creature, which is fine I guess, so long as you don't go out and act like him. That you think the torture is a nice thing to do shows how little you've actually thought about your faith which is really pretty terrifying.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's not the torture so much as the inconsistency. You don't get to torture people over a minor issue (you were once rude to a parent) and claim to be merciful. The torturing people for no good reason just shows that you worship a disgustingly egotistical and actively malicious creature, which is fine I guess, so long as you don't go out and act like him. That you think the torture is a nice thing to do shows how little you've actually thought about your faith which is really pretty terrifying.
well alot of people don't question it because it is so ingrained when they are young. I really didn't have to go to church that much when I was young, so I was able to decide for myself later on without the religion being shoved down my throat.
Originally posted by Omega Spawnnot to offend the sore religious people
but why is the concept of evidence so hard to understand?
any given site ANY someone says "evidence please" and people quote scriptures on & on. sigh... its a frustrating loop -_-
its the equivalent of someone telling someone there is no hogwarts full of wizards & in response they start reading the dam spells
Learn the subject(s) that you have contentions with (intimately). See the full picture. From there, study for hours and hours and hours. Read everything - and hold zero biases. At some point, you will be confronted with the fact that this post was the product of pure ignorance. It's obvious to me, that you've never made a serious inquiry.